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-   -   Chiefs Kcchiefs article on Justin Houston extension (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=293447)

DJ's left nut 07-17-2015 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11603265)
They play the same position. Denver's 4-3 over the past 4 years has really been a 5-2, with the 2 outside linemen (Von on one side, Dumervil/Phillips/Ware on the other) really being OLBs. Going down the line, the players had the same responsibilities, even though their position titles may have been different.

Ware : Hali
Williams : Howard
Knighton : Poe
Wolfe : Bailey
Miller : Houston
I have no idea how you guys ran your defense, but if Miller Ware was playing as a down lineman (especially if Miller was playing as a down lineman) as you seem to be suggesting by saying they were running a 5-2 front, then it's not even remotely similar.

I think you're reaching here.

MagicHef 07-17-2015 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 11603268)
The same position?

You guys ran a base 4-3 under Fox /Delrio, right? Not "essentially the same position" at all.
Not a base 4-3. It was typically called a 4-3 under, so the SAM (Von) would be on the line, standing up. Ware would also usually be standing up on the line on the other side. As far as responsibilities go, in general terms it's identical to a 3-4.

MagicHef 07-17-2015 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 11603273)
I have no idea how you guys ran your defense, but if Miller Ware was playing as a down lineman (especially if Miller was playing as a down lineman) as you seem to be suggesting by saying they were running a 5-2 front, then it's not even remotely similar.

I think you're reaching here.
Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a 5-2, Miller wasn't in a 3 point stance. It's a 4-3 under, but the general player responsibilities are identical to a 3-4. Miller and Houston's roles in their defense are really the same.

BossChief 07-17-2015 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11603288)
Yeah, I shouldn't have called it a 5-2, Miller wasn't in a 3 point stance. It's a 4-3 under, but the general player responsibilities are identical to a 3-4. Miller and Houston's roles in their defense are really the same.
The alignment has very little to do with player responsibilities...I agree with DJ that your reaching.

Post how many times Miller rushed the passer as opposed to Houston.

RunKC 07-17-2015 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 11603233)
If you're going to call him a "complete linebacker", why don't they ever compare him to all the linebackers? That 1st/4th/4th thing is only true if you compare him to only 3-4 OLBs. Seriously, he was beaten in the coverage rating by Hali and Peppers. Those aren't exactly good coverage guys.

If you actually compare him to all the LBs, he is 1st in rushing, 32nd in coverage, and 19th against the run.

Von, by the way, is 2nd/28th/2nd.
And this right here is where This poster uses misguided numbers to try and exaggerate a point that isn't there.

"Justin Houston is 32nd in pass coverage."

The facts are that Houston lined up in coverage 158 times last year and was only targeted 10 times all season.
He surrendered only 7 catches for 45 yards all year, 4 of those catches coming in one game vs the Bills."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ustin-houston/

Get this hyperbole bullshit outta here.

MTG#10 07-17-2015 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 11603174)
"He's meant a lot to my career," Houston said. "When Tamba first came into the league, he didn't have a guy to take him under his wing. When I came in, it was the total opposite. He was willing to teach me everything he knows.
I guess Houston has never heard of Jared Allen.

ToxSocks 07-17-2015 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTG#10 (Post 11603323)
I guess Houston has never heard of Jared Allen.
Wasn't Jared only there for one year? And im kinda skeptical on what kind of "teacher" he was.

MTG#10 07-17-2015 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 11603325)
Wasn't Jared only there for one year? And im kinda skeptical on what kind of "teacher" he was.
Not sure, but I do recall him teaching Tamba to knee guys in the nuts on Hard Knocks.

Chiefs=Champions 07-17-2015 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTG#10 (Post 11603326)
Not sure, but I do recall him teaching Tamba to knee guys in the nuts on Hard Knocks.
No that was him teaching Turk Mcbride. Ah the memories.

The Franchise 07-17-2015 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 11603325)
Wasn't Jared only there for one year? And im kinda skeptical on what kind of "teacher" he was.
Two years. Tamba's rookie year and then Allen's last year where he was franchise tagged and then traded to the Vikings.

Still....that doesn't mean that Allen took Hali under his wing like Hali has done for Houston.

Strongside 07-17-2015 10:31 AM
This defense gon' be stupid good.

MagicHef 07-17-2015 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 11603300)
The alignment has very little to do with player responsibilities...I agree with DJ that your reaching.

Post how many times Miller rushed the passer as opposed to Houston.
Houston rushed 462 times, Von rushed 511 times.

pugsnotdrugs19 07-17-2015 10:40 AM
We can sit here and argue all day who is better between Houston and Miller, it's no use. They are both elite players who are on path's to Canton. Both will wind up with likely identical contracts, too.

The argument that will matter is the guys around them. We know those two are gonna wreak havoc if healthy, the question becomes who wins the battle of Hali/Ford/Bailey/Poe vs. Ware/Ray/Wolfe/Williams.

DaneMcCloud 07-17-2015 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 11603206)
I hope I'm wrong but these guys never play the same after their guaranteed contracts kick in.
Yeah, JJ Watt sucked last year.

MagicHef 07-17-2015 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 11603304)
And this right here is where This poster uses misguided numbers to try and exaggerate a point that isn't there.

"Justin Houston is 32nd in pass coverage."

The facts are that Houston lined up in coverage 158 times last year and was only targeted 10 times all season.
He surrendered only 7 catches for 45 yards all year, 4 of those catches coming in one game vs the Bills."

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ustin-houston/

Get this hyperbole bullshit outta here.
I was using the same ratings as were used to argue that Houston was a complete linebacker.

Also, Miller was in coverage 113 times, and gave up 11 catches for 76 yards. Attributing catches and yards to these guys is nearly meaningless, though, because they will almost always be dropping in zone, not man-to-man on a single receiver.


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