I have. Like has been said here, my childhood cards looked like they fought in a world war. Beat to crap. I sorted, stacked, thumbed through, resorted, put them in number order, teams, favorite players, etc. etc. Long story short, my original cards have very high miles :eek:

But I did eventually grade the stuff that I thought would even remotely possibly grade PSA7 or better. (FTR, I strictly use PSA, but that is because most of what I grade is 70's and 80's football). I did end up with a few shockers here and there. But it was overall, money thrown out the window. :(

However, it got me re interested in cards and I started re collecting and buying/grading cards from the 80's. So a lot of money later, I now own one of the #1 sets in the PSA Registry, for what that's worth, LOL

Yea, the sequencing in 86-87 Fleer makes it an easy prediction. A untampered box will usually yield, what, 3 complete sets? I'm not a basketball guy, so I'm no real familiar. But that is an iconic issue. And those boxes are what, 75k plus?

I seen a couple years ago a find in Jefferson City ended up with a near complete case!! :eek:

You can find them retail for 40-50k for a box. Not worth it. You will never recoup the cost.

You too!

One of the biggest laughs for me is when people look at active eBay buy it now listings, picked the highest value and claim they have a small fortune on their hands. They hate it when I show them their 10k card sells at a fraction of that. Most people don't understand that the pricing of cards on eBay is akin to putting a Mercedes price tag on a Yugo.

Ever watch a balloon deflate?

You would have to hit 10's on a lot of key cards to break even. Getting the Jordan in 10 would get you halfway there. Johnny Moore and Dominique both in 10 as well would push you close, but that's a pretty long shot to hit on 3 of the bigs like that. And the dropoff from 10 to 9 is pretty substantial. The Jordan alone is a 20k+ card in 10, but dips to around 4k in 9.

I've submitted a fair number of cards over the years with adequate results. 86 fleer has been a bastard to get decent grades on, for some reason that's just one I have bad luck with. So to hit 10's on three of the biggest cards in that set from one box, is well...not realistic in my opinion.

Yep. You would have to hit 10's on every major card in the set. Even then, you probably not be in the money. As you pointed out, the quality of Fleer basketball is really hit and miss. Either it's off center or has a printing flaw.

Johnny Moore. ROFL That damn card. Think I still have one. May have given to my son.

After the PWCC and PSA debacle I think I am going to shy away from graded cards for a while now.

If you could get a couple of Jordans, one in 10 and another in 9 (yeah right) and hit on the checklist, Moore, Wilkins, and maybe a low pop scrub, you'll be even. Then if you hit a Cap sticker in high grade and the Jordan as well, you'll be in the green...but man that's a long long long shot. going 9's across the board would be tough. A friend of mine back in the day bought a case (this was before PSA came into play. He also bought up all the 84 Star jordans he could. I was with him when he busted one box and the quality just wasn't there. the box looked good, but the centering and overall quality was meh. The unopened and unknown is the value in that material now.

yeah, f___ PWCC. I had a couple dealings with him on lesser stuff in the past where I thought he was kind of an ass. Then a couple years later he gets blown up for trimming and actually uses some line like "photos aren't evidence". I think he's closely tied to another guy I had dealt with in the past who supposedly warehoused a lot of his collection in the same town. That guy wasn't much better IMO. He's one of the chosen few to have his collection name printed on the label, but it doesn't save him from being dick as well.

I figured as long as the card fills the holder, its a heck of a lot closer to being legit than one that rattles around.

even with the PWCC news, Heritage and other big houses are hitting big numbers, so either it hasn't gotten around or some people just don't care. net54 I think, had a really interesting thread on a Brady rookie that was proven to be trimmed years ago. It was a serialed card that suddenly has less border (some of his foot was missing in the before/after shots of it) and made its way into a nice holder with less foot. Its not just PWCC sadly, that crap has been going on forever and some people simply buy the case and not the card. Hell, even the Holy Grail Wagner has its own mystery of being hand cut from an old sheet.

Yea, like I said, not a basketball guy. But I am vaguely familiar with this issue. A 50k box would scare the heck outta me. I haven't heard of a legitimate box going that cheap in many, many years.

The sequencing is clockwork accurate. Let me tell a story I watched with my own eyes.

I was at the National Sports Collectors Convention in Cleveland, OH. in 2014 I believe, but don't quote me on that. I have been out to the Natty there twice and may have which time wrong. Anyway, I'm walking around and drooling at all the unopened when I overhear a small group of guys talking about the Fleer packs. Of course I knew exactly which ones they were talking about. They was blah, blah back and forth. One guy told the other....

My ears perked. A couple of dudes were gonna buy a 2k ish pack of cards and bet dinner on the sequence :eek: That's what is known as having walking around money in my small world :eek:

Anyhow, they did it. Small crowd had gathered to watch. Guy bought the pack, rambled off the name of the last card (through the pack, you can see through these packs like many earlier issues) Other guy pulls out a small pocket notebook.

Pack gets opened. #1, such and such, #2, such and such, #3, such and such, and on and on. He nailed every one! Just by knowing the last player in the pack!!

Of course, no Jordan in the pack :(

I thought that was common knowledge in the hobby? I don't do old tobacco cards at all, but it seems like I read somewhere that PSA acknowledged that it was sheet cut, but it was such a rare example, that they let it slide (or something to that effect)

Of course, I could be remembering that all wrong, but it seems like that's what I read.

I do have some old tobacco cards, but nothing of any real importance. I have some HOFers in the psa 3-5 range. Mostly because they really are cool cards, and for me, in that 3-5 range if the card is centered, then its grade is brought down usually by corners and edges, which if symmetrical still presents nice. I also like the to have a little toning to them too, then its a little better chance they haven't been washed, etc.

The Wagner stuff may be more common than I realize. There are some really old "Xeroxed" clippings and whatnot that have been circulated over the years that kind of retell the story. Its been a long time since I've really thought about any of it (I figure if a guy has the means to own a MLB team, he isn't in much of a hurry to sell that card to me for what I could pay for it, which would be its 1912 price).

I guess as I typed this I did a quick search and it looks like Mastro fessed up to it a few years ago. That's news to me. I had heard mixed stuff about him, and there was the posted research into why people believed so strongly he had altered the card that I vaguely remembered. And with a billionaire owning it now, I don't see any grading company having the power to recall and reslab it as auth-altered. I suppose the jumbo Wagner could have been another victim of his had he gotten ahold of it. For me, with it being oversized and even a little ugly, if I were in that level of collecting, I would have to say that would be THE card now with the new-to-me info about the McNall Wagner.

I just scored an Absolute Rookie Roundup Patrick Mahomes card for $20 PBJ

Just scored a Kyler Murray Chrome. Yes!!

Can someone recommend good starter packs for 2nd - 4th grade students? Either football or basketball.

Kids from 7-9? Panini Stickers for both NFL and NBA, or NFL Five. You're basically looking for low end and low cost products. Donruss or NBAHoops if you want more of a traditional form of a sports card. You start getting into the opti-chrome like Prizm, Select, Mosaic, or Phoenix(hobby only) cards and cost can skyrocket. Typically look for retail over hobby as hobby would be overkill from a cost standpoint as well.

Awesome -- thanks. I looked up Panini Stickers and a box was $99, a little out of my budget. Here is Panini Prestige for kind of the price range I'm looking at spending:

https://www.amazon.com/Panini-Presti...ustomerReviews

Any concerns there?