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ghak99 07-08-2022 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 16360827)
That pickup comparison video shows how abysmal range is now.

Maybe I’ll get a usable electric truck by the time I’m 80.
Assuming there wasn't anything weird going on to explain it, the truck is complete ****ing dog shit as anything but a grocery getter. Which is fine if that is how it's marketed. I've considered getting my mom one if it rolled out ok as 90% of her use would be that and picking up grandkids, so it'd be perfect for her but a 6k trailer just murdered that thing for most people.

I don't think they mentioned it, but I noticed it was actually in the drafting position behind the gas truck in a lot of the clips during the video. That makes a huge difference and would make the performance even worse in a non drafting test.

DaFace 07-08-2022 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghak99 (Post 16361077)
Assuming there wasn't anything weird going on to explain it, the truck is complete ****ing dog shit as anything but a grocery getter. Which is fine if that is how it's marketed. I've considered getting my mom one if it rolled out ok as 90% of her use would be that and picking up grandkids, so it'd be perfect for her but a 6k trailer just murdered that thing for most people.



I don't think they mentioned it, but I noticed it was actually in the drafting position behind the gas truck in a lot of the clips during the video. That makes a huge difference and would make the performance even worse in a non drafting test.
PHEVs are kind of shat upon by EV purists, but honestly they're probably the better solution to someone who wants a lot of the benefits of an EV but needs towing range. Unfortunately, I'm not sure many truck brands are developing them.

ghak99 07-08-2022 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 16361160)
PHEVs are kind of shat upon by EV purists, but honestly they're probably the better solution to someone who wants a lot of the benefits of an EV but needs towing range. Unfortunately, I'm not sure many truck brands are developing them.
They'd probably be a decent bridge for a good chunk of the customer base who only tows to the lake or track on the weekends and never gets too far out of warranty coverage. I bet a lot of people would enjoy running on electric during the work week and using gas to extend the range on the weekend.

I'm all about simple though and two systems and still having all the maintenance just mentally kills it for me. Just give me the impossible dammit! I'm not going to live forever!

MagicHef 07-08-2022 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 16361160)
PHEVs are kind of shat upon by EV purists, but honestly they're probably the better solution to someone who wants a lot of the benefits of an EV but needs towing range. Unfortunately, I'm not sure many truck brands are developing them.
They are if you can only have one car. I'd rather have one gas car and one pure EV so I can do whatever I need but not be lugging around an extra propulsion system.

Buehler445 07-08-2022 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 16361160)
PHEVs are kind of shat upon by EV purists, but honestly they're probably the better solution to someone who wants a lot of the benefits of an EV but needs towing range. Unfortunately, I'm not sure many truck brands are developing them.
That’s a viable solution for my truck usage. At least the one I drive. The farm truck that gets trailers probably not.

I want that damned electric semi.

Buehler445 07-08-2022 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 16361297)
They are if you can only have one car. I'd rather have one gas car and one pure EV so I can do whatever I need but not be lugging around an extra propulsion system.
It’s not a propulsion system it’s a generator, right?

MagicHef 07-08-2022 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 16361359)
It’s not a propulsion system it’s a generator, right?
Yes, and even hybrids without plug-in capability are more efficient than straight gas cars, so obviously the benefits outweigh the drawbacks of extra weight and complexity.

For my situation, considering the cost of buying a new car, I'm probably going to wait until an EV is available that meets my needs that can act as a daily driver, and use my existing gas truck for the rare occasions (long trip, heavy towing) that the EV won't cut it. I think I'll get the most benefit that way as I will almost always be driving a full EV without carrying any gas equipment, but will still have the ability to do the things a full EV can't.

DaFace 07-08-2022 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buehler445 (Post 16361359)
It’s not a propulsion system it’s a generator, right?
Eh, it's really both. But that's just a technicality.

As for maintenance, there's really zero added by the EV system, but you do add some additional potential failure points.

Lzen 07-08-2022 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 16359724)
You can get a Nissian Leaf for $27-28k and with tax incentives its nets you down to around 20K. so easy to find and saves lots of cash.
Interesting. I guess I should have considered there would be gov't tax breaks. I am getting solar panels installed right now. I will get a 26% tax rebate on that system. Next year it goes down to 22%.

LiveSteam 07-08-2022 02:38 PM
EVs are great tell they catch on fire

penguinz 07-08-2022 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveSteam (Post 16361594)
EVs are great tell they catch on fire
ICE vehicles are great until they catch on fire.

Perineum Ripper 07-08-2022 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16361681)
ICE vehicles are great until they catch on fire.
Houses are great until they catch on fire.

rtmike 07-08-2022 07:08 PM
4500 gallons of water to put one out that combusted in a wrecking yard.
Good job firefighters!




https://lm.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...cb7OhuUeHqfVKw

ArrowHeader 07-08-2022 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 16360863)
The cybertruck trimotor will get 500 miles plus range, even pulling should get 400 miles or more.
“Pullin” lol. 400 miles haulin what? A heavy gerbil?

notorious 07-09-2022 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 16360863)
The cybertruck trimotor will get 500 miles plus range, even pulling should get 400 miles or more.
Sorry man, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but 400 miles hauling a trailer is a load of shit.

Well, unless it defies the laws of physics.

You and I've had this discussion before. The Tesla truck is a weekend warrior mobile. I will be all-in on a usable truck. One that actually does work, hauls 13-18000 pounds with an unlimited range.

I'm picking up my next brand new pickup this week, another 2500 GM diesel. I can take that thing to work in Colorado, Oklahoma, Texas hauling a big-ass trailer non-stop, and if I do stop it's a 5 minute wait to refuel.

I can't wait until electric tech is ready to solve my problem. I have stated many times I will pay well over the 75-80k my current trucks cost. I am also not going to lie to myself and others just because I want it to be true today.

2bikemike 07-11-2022 03:06 PM
Saw this real world test.. I never thought about accessibility of charging stations while towing. I never doubted the failure of range.


https://autos.yahoo.com/ford-lightni...201500269.html
Quote:

We’ve seen other automotive media outlets do their own tests between electric and traditional pickup trucks recently, but they’re mostly disappointing. After all, we firmly believe trucks weren’t just made to look cool while you cruise around town. Yet these tests have focused on drag races, 0-60 acceleration, and other nonsense. You buy a truck primarily to do truck things: towing and hauling.

We’ve seen other automotive media outlets do their own tests between electric and traditional pickup trucks recently, but they’re mostly disappointing. After all, we firmly believe trucks weren’t just made to look cool while you cruise around town. Yet these tests have focused on drag races, 0-60 acceleration, and other nonsense. You buy a truck primarily to do truck things: towing and hauling.


Fortunately, The Fast Lane Truck gets that, so they decided to hitch an empty car carrier to a new GMC Sierra Denali Ultimate Edition and a Ford F-150 Lightning to see how they handled towing a load over long distances. The results were incredibly revealing, exposing one of the biggest doubts we’ve had about all-electric trucks and their real-world usefulness for doing truck things.

The whole point was to see which would happen first: the Sierra runs out of fuel or the Lightning’s batteries go dead. Now, we’ve known far too many EV enthusiasts who get all smug about range anxiety and how people need to just calm down because nobody needs the ranges they think they do. Well, that’s true if you only drive in the city and mostly commute. However, there are people who go out on the open road, hauling trailers in the wide open Western US where distances between cities often exceeds what your electric car can do on a single charge.


But Ford has been boasting about how with the larger chassis in the F-150 Lightning, it has that much more juice so you can really go out there and not have to worry about running the battery dry. Well, The Fast Lane Truck debunked that claim, at least when towing a trailer is involved. The Ford truck didn’t make it the 282 miles the onboard computer estimated, a figure which was adjusted to 160 miles once the driver provided the trailer specs. The plan was to go to a charging station 147 miles away, but as the batteries depleted more rapidly than expected, a destination 45 miles closer was chosen. However, the Lightning couldn’t even make it the 102 miles pulling the trailer, so the driver had to turn around and head back to a nearer charging station, arriving with 9 percent charge left.

With a 24-gallon tank in the Sierra, it had a much longer range. Like with the Ford, the computer estimates range with the trailer specs, pegging it at 264 miles. Unlike with the Lightning, the GMC did just fine on range, although when its rival turned around it just headed back to the starting point without stopping to refuel.


Another important problem with all-electric trucks, one we admittedly didn’t even think about, was exposed during this test. Charging one with a trailer hitched up isn’t exactly easy since most public chargers are set up in a regular parking stall. The Fast Lane Truck had to park the truck and trailer across multiple charging station spots to plug in the Ford Lightning. Perhaps having pull-through chargers like how gas pumps are set up would be a good idea in more places?

This test exposes the fact that EV technology isn’t ready to fully replace internal combustion engines, no matter how badly EV advocates want to see that happen rapidly. While the tech has come a long way, it still has a lot further to go.

Lzen 07-15-2022 02:02 PM
Thought this was interesting.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7dfyG6FXsUU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chief Pagan 07-15-2022 03:16 PM
Can our grid handle heat waves without asking residents and businesses to cut back on electrical use?

The country needs more investment.

DaFace 07-15-2022 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 16369961)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7dfyG6FXsUU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Fascinating, that was interesting to see it all laid out like that. Clearly there are issues, but in theory they should be surmountable, especially given how slow the adoption curve likely will be.

On a random note, we switched to Time of Use pricing a year or so ago for some of the reasons he mentioned. The electric company doesn't want people charging in the summer afternoons because of all of air conditioners in use, so they give a huge discount for charging at night. Works out great for me, and I bet we'll see more and more of that over time.

(Weird video format, though. I'm not sure I could safely drive through those windy areas without being too distracted by the numbers he was spouting.)

Kopinto 02-14-2023 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lzen (Post 16369961)
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7dfyG6FXsUU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I believe that thanks to salvage car auctions like abetter.bid people will still own gas cars for a long time, my opinion.
If gas cars are banned then I guess that EV owners will face a number of challenges of which grid is not the main one, I suppose.

frozenchief 03-28-2023 01:30 PM
Electric Vehicles are the Yugo of the 21st Century:

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/03/2...-21st-century/

Biggest reason for this conclusion: They cost way too much to repair. Because of how the batteries are constructed, there is no cheap way to fix them so they must be replaced. Thus, even a low-mileage EV with a damaged battery is totaled.

Pablo 03-28-2023 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenchief (Post 16879428)
Electric Vehicles are the Yugo of the 21st Century:

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/03/2...-21st-century/

Biggest reason for this conclusion: They cost way too much to repair. Because of how the batteries are constructed, there is no cheap way to fix them so they must be replaced. Thus, even a low-mileage EV with a damaged battery is totaled.
That website popped up some Google is silencing conservative voices! disclaimer so I didn’t read. Thanks for the synopsis

frozenchief 03-28-2023 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo (Post 16879431)
That website popped up some Google is silencing conservative voices! disclaimer so I didn’t read. Thanks for the synopsis
Didn't pop up for me. Got the link from Instapundit, who, while definitely right-leaning, is generally pretty level-headed and not prone to wild conspiracy theories. Thanks for the heads up. I try to not post from sites that are over-the-top.

BWillie 03-28-2023 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenchief (Post 16879428)
Electric Vehicles are the Yugo of the 21st Century:

https://issuesinsights.com/2023/03/2...-21st-century/

Biggest reason for this conclusion: They cost way too much to repair. Because of how the batteries are constructed, there is no cheap way to fix them so they must be replaced. Thus, even a low-mileage EV with a damaged battery is totaled.
My Tesla has been the cheapest car to own Ive ever had. Had it for like 5 years now.

DaFace 03-28-2023 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16879458)
My Tesla has been the cheapest car to own Ive ever had. Had it for like 5 years now.
No kidding - that article makes absolutely zero sense. If we were making decisions about car technology based on how likely it is they would be totaled in an accident, we'd all be driving 1970s F150s.

HemiEd 12-01-2023 07:58 AM
Range Anxiety
 
Detroit's Electric Road

The city of Detroit opened the country's first road capable of wirelessly charging

electric vehicles as they drive this week, a key step toward wider adoption of the technology. The quarter-mile demonstration project is meant to show the feasibility of wireless charging as a supplement to an eventual nationwide charging network for electric vehicles.



The technology relies on magnetic resonance induction, similar to wireless charging for cellphones and other devices (and discovered by Nikola Tesla). Effectively, large copper coils placed under the road create a magnetic field, which induces an electric current in a receiver in the car as it drives through, thereby charging the battery (watch 101). The process is not harmful to humans.



In the demonstration, the charging rate reportedly reached as high as 19 kW, a small percentage of the stored energy needed to power an average electric vehicle during regular use.



Analysts say the enhanced roads may help address "range anxiety"—a concern of potential consumers worried electric vehicles can only travel limited distances.

notorious 12-01-2023 08:34 AM
How much will that cost to construct?

BEAVER 12-01-2023 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 17252850)
How much will that cost to construct?
Doesn't really matter - paid for by tax dollars I'm sure - so it is free!!

Wooohoooo - Free Stuff!

HemiEd 12-01-2023 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious (Post 17252850)
How much will that cost to construct?
I can't even imagine.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAVER (Post 17253093)
Doesn't really matter - paid for by tax dollars I'm sure - so it is free!!

Wooohoooo - Free Stuff!
Yep, for sure. And how are they going to tax these EVs since they don't pay the fuel tax?

Skyy God 12-01-2023 01:04 PM
Heard the new Elon Musk fail-mobile described as an Incel El Camino.

I giggled.

HemiEd 12-01-2023 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyy God (Post 17253108)
Heard the new Elon Musk fail-mobile described as an Incel El Camino.

I giggled.
ROFL

DaFace 12-01-2023 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17253106)
I can't even imagine.






Yep, for sure. And how are they going to tax these EVs since they don't pay the fuel tax?
Many states charge extra on your property taxes. I pay an extra $50/year.

DaFace 12-01-2023 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAVER (Post 17253093)
Doesn't really matter - paid for by tax dollars I'm sure - so it is free!!

Wooohoooo - Free Stuff!
I bet you're the type who would have bitched about the government paying to build the interstate system.

ghak99 12-01-2023 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253120)
Many states charge extra on your property taxes. I pay an extra $50/year.
Is that $50 based on mileage driven?

Any idea how that $50 would compare to the tax on the fuel you would have otherwise been using annually?

DaFace 12-01-2023 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghak99 (Post 17253127)
Is that $50 based on mileage driven?

Any idea how that $50 would compare to the tax on the fuel you would have otherwise been using annually?
Nah, it's a flat rate. Looks like it's $0.22 per gallon in Colorado, so if you assume 22mpg (to make the math easy), that'd work out to ~5k miles per year. If you assume 33mpg (which is closer to what I'd expect on comparable ICE cars), it'd be more like ~7500 miles per year.

There's always weird nuance, though. I have to pay the $50 on my PHEV as well, and any time I leave the city I'm still using gas. So I'm pretty sure I come out behind on that one, though I probably come out a little ahead on my EV.

seamonster 12-01-2023 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253122)
I bet you're the type who would have bitched about the government paying to build the interstate system.
California spent billion(s) of dollars to build a tiny railroad. Good luck.

DaFace 12-01-2023 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seamonster (Post 17253148)
California spent billion(s) of dollars to build a tiny railroad. Good luck.
This cost about 0.2% of that amount, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Pinchshot 12-01-2023 01:56 PM
Charging a Tesla for one day takes same amount of energy as 13 homes.

EV is a scam.

Sassy Squatch 12-01-2023 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinchshot (Post 17253188)
Charging a Tesla for one day takes same amount of energy as 13 homes.

EV is a scam.
From what I've seen most automakers are pulling back quite a bit on investing in them. For now, at least.

DaFace 12-01-2023 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinchshot (Post 17253188)
Charging a Tesla for one day takes same amount of energy as 13 homes.

EV is a scam.
Wait till you see how much gas it would take to power 13 homes for a day.

Skyy God 12-01-2023 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253122)
I bet you're the type who would have bitched about the government paying to build the interstate system.
Probs voted Eisenhower and then called him a socialist for building roads.

BWillie 12-01-2023 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinchshot (Post 17253188)
Charging a Tesla for one day takes same amount of energy as 13 homes.

EV is a scam.
This is nowhere near correct in my instance. If I fully charge my Tesla at my house I dont really even notice a big increase to my electric bill. I probably charge my Tesla about 1,200 miles a month at my house and it seems like it is only maybe 5% or 10% max of my homes electric bill.

DaFace 12-01-2023 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17253261)
This is nowhere near correct in my instance. If I fully charge my Tesla at my house I dont really even notice a big increase to my electric bill. I probably charge my Tesla about 1,200 miles a month at my house and it seems like it is only maybe 5% or 10% max of my homes electric bill.
I run a home energy monitor, and in the past 12 months our cars have used 2,661 KWh compared to our other usage of 5,023 KWh. So in our case, EV usage is about 50% of our house's usage.

I'd be really curious to know where in the world a 13x number came from. Obviously not reality, but it's a bit random.

Perineum Ripper 12-01-2023 03:10 PM
Yeah my wife’s car didn’t add anywhere close to that much energy, we land between you and BWillie

BWillie 12-01-2023 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253285)
I run a home energy monitor, and in the past 12 months our cars have used 2,661 KWh compared to our other usage of 5,023 KWh. So in our case, EV usage is about 50% of our house's usage.

I'd be really curious to know where in the world a 13x number came from. Obviously not reality, but it's a bit random.
Maybe Im overestimating the amount I charge at home since I do use Superchargers alot at Hyvee 13x sounds way high.

Chief Roundup 12-01-2023 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17253106)

Yep, for sure. And how are they going to tax these EVs since they don't pay the fuel tax?
They get that fuel tax through a road use fee when you get your tags renewed. If you have a hybrid it is $250 a year, in Arkansas. If you have an EV then the road use fee is $500.

Otter 12-01-2023 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perineum Ripper (Post 17253288)
Yeah my wife’s car didn’t add anywhere close to that much energy, we land between you and BWillie

Get a room.

HemiEd 12-02-2023 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253120)
Many states charge extra on your property taxes. I pay an extra $50/year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Roundup (Post 17253468)
They get that fuel tax through a road use fee when you get your tags renewed. If you have a hybrid it is $250 a year, in Arkansas. If you have an EV then the road use fee is $500.
That is interesting, we haven't paid any extra on our little Prius C here in Missouri.

DaFace 12-02-2023 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17253795)
That is interesting, we haven't paid any extra on our little Prius C here in Missouri.
Colorado doesn't charge extra for standard hybrids either - just cars with a plug.

HemiEd 03-27-2024 02:34 AM
Thought this was interesting, rest of article in spoiler tags:

It’s Not Easy Being EV: Three EV startups — Lordstown Motors, Proterra, and Electric Last Mile Solutions — have all filed for bankruptcy. Plus, startup vehicles tend to cost more than what the average driver wants to pay. The Fisker Ocean SUV costs $62,000 — that’s about $20,000 more than a new Tesla Model Y or Ford Mustang Mach E. Even a bigger player in the startup space like Lucid, which is partially backed by that sweet Saudi oil money and just raised $1 billion from the Gulf kingdom, still faces weak demand for its luxury cars. If EVs were mousetraps, right now the goal isn’t about building a better one, but rather a cheaper one.



Spoiler!

mabbott 03-27-2024 04:11 PM
I know Calfifornia has already considered a road tax "usage" tax that would be payed annually based on how many miles were driven. It didn't gain much ground; however, the closer we get to the 2035 all electric date, that will have to change as the amount of money raised by the gas tax will get less and less. I know I won't have to worry about that as I am eligible to leave California at the end of next year.

Pinchshot 03-27-2024 06:11 PM
We still talking about this scam?

BWillie 03-27-2024 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinchshot (Post 17459987)
We still talking about this scam?
Scam? Smh....

HemiEd 03-28-2024 06:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17460110)
Scam? Smh....
Electric vehicle startup Fisker cuts base price of Ocean SUV to $24K as part of efforts to avoid bankruptcy; move comes after its stock was delisted this week from the New York Stock Exchange

Fisker Puts Its All-Electric Ocean SUV on Fire Sale, Slashing Prices By Tens of Thousands
An incredible 39 percent drop in price enrages current owners, but could newfound affordability intrigue potential ones?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/fisk...ice-cuts-sale/

Lzen 03-28-2024 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabbott (Post 17459869)
I know Calfifornia has already considered a road tax "usage" tax that would be payed annually based on how many miles were driven. It didn't gain much ground; however, the closer we get to the 2035 all electric date, that will have to change as the amount of money raised by the gas tax will get less and less. I know I won't have to worry about that as I am eligible to leave California at the end of next year.
That is something they are considering now in Kansas. I just hope they don't do something stupid, like put another tax on all electricity customers.

RedRaider56 03-28-2024 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17460265)
Electric vehicle startup Fisker cuts base price of Ocean SUV to $24K as part of efforts to avoid bankruptcy; move comes after its stock was delisted this week from the New York Stock Exchange

Fisker Puts Its All-Electric Ocean SUV on Fire Sale, Slashing Prices By Tens of Thousands
An incredible 39 percent drop in price enrages current owners, but could newfound affordability intrigue potential ones?

https://www.motortrend.com/news/fisk...ice-cuts-sale/
Not surprising about Fisker. What is this, there third incarnation as a car company and the two previous versions bankrupted as well?
I'm surprised they have lasted as long as they have.

MagicHef 03-28-2024 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabbott (Post 17459869)
I know Calfifornia has already considered a road tax "usage" tax that would be payed annually based on how many miles were driven. It didn't gain much ground; however, the closer we get to the 2035 all electric date, that will have to change as the amount of money raised by the gas tax will get less and less. I know I won't have to worry about that as I am eligible to leave California at the end of next year.
In Washington, I had to pay an extra registration fee because I won't be paying gas taxes. I think it was $175.

DaFace 03-28-2024 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 17460494)
In Washington, I had to pay an extra registration fee because I won't be paying gas taxes. I think it was $175.
It's only $50 in Colorado, but I bet it'll go up over time as EVs make up a higher percentage of cars on the road.

BWillie 03-28-2024 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 17460494)
In Washington, I had to pay an extra registration fee because I won't be paying gas taxes. I think it was $175.
That's ridiculous

HemiEd 03-29-2024 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17461295)
That's ridiculous
You do realize the gas taxes are used for road construction and maintenance, right?

You expect a FREE RIDE?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rTEtdgdfXAo?si=2ck4O24NaDiuEkP-" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

BWillie 03-29-2024 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17461479)
You do realize the gas taxes are used for road construction and maintenance, right?

You expect a FREE RIDE?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rTEtdgdfXAo?si=2ck4O24NaDiuEkP-" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>
You would think you would be more thankful to the people that are helping lower the price of YOUR gas.

jd1020 03-29-2024 07:21 AM
My gas prices are going up because the number of sheep that have switched to electric isn't big enough to cause dent in demand.

EV is not the future. They are never going to replace IC engines. Let me know when hydrogen, or some other "clean" method that mirrors IC, starts becoming a mainstream push. Then I might take an interest.

neech 03-29-2024 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17461479)
You do realize the gas taxes are used for road construction and maintenance, right?

You expect a FREE RIDE?
"You didn't build that"

BWillie 03-29-2024 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 17461523)
My gas prices are going up because the number of sheep that have switched to electric isn't big enough to cause dent in demand.

EV is not the future. They are never going to replace IC engines. Let me know when hydrogen, or some other "clean" method that mirrors IC, starts becoming a mainstream push. Then I might take an interest.
Ah yes supply and demand does not exist? It is true that gas is extremely inelastic but I assure you if Tesla, Prius, and other hybrid/electric cars did not exist your gas prices would be higher.

Just say thank you. Its ok. Gas serves a purpose as do EVs.

DaFace 03-29-2024 08:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17461479)
You do realize the gas taxes are used for road construction and maintenance, right?

You expect a FREE RIDE?
To be fair, there's nothing set in stone that says that's the way roads SHOULD be financed. Some states don't have income taxes, but they have higher property and/or sales taxes - they can choose how they want it to work.

In a distant future where EVs are the majority, states could possibly choose to pay for road maintenance from other sources. And sure, you could argue that paying for it from gas taxes is the most "fair" way of doing it, but I don't get a break on my taxes because I don't have kids who go to school and don't go to parks very often.

In the meantime, I don't have an issue with (reasonable) registration fees for EVs, but the model at its core doesn't HAVE to stay that way.

mlyonsd 03-29-2024 09:01 AM
EV's should have an extra charge added to their annual license registration to account for their lack of paying a gasoline tax. Or is that already a thing?

DaFace 03-29-2024 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd (Post 17461594)
EV's should have an extra charge added to their annual license registration to account for their lack of paying a gasoline tax. Or is that already a thing?
It's almost like that's what the past ~15 posts in this thread have been discussing.

HemiEd 03-29-2024 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17461587)
To be fair, there's nothing set in stone that says that's the way roads SHOULD be financed. Some states don't have income taxes, but they have higher property and/or sales taxes - they can choose how they want it to work.
We recently learned that the hard way as we were going to move to Texas to be closer to grandkids. They have no personal income tax and their property taxes are similar to Illinois and California, through the roof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17461587)
In a distant future where EVs are the majority, states could possibly choose to pay for road maintenance from other sources. And sure, you could argue that paying for it from gas taxes is the most "fair" way of doing it, but I don't get a break on my taxes because I don't have kids who go to school and don't go to parks very often.

In the meantime, I don't have an issue with (reasonable) registration fees for EVs, but the model at its core doesn't HAVE to stay that way.
Same here, been paying school taxes for many years and my kids graduated in 91 and 94.
Bottom line, they are going to get it somewhere. There is a ground swell here in Missouri to remove personal property tax, but I would bet it would result in an increase in property tax or some other venue.

HemiEd 03-29-2024 12:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17461508)
You would think you would be more thankful to the people that are helping lower the price of YOUR gas.
:LOL: Like that has any impact whatsoever. I am going to stop now before this thread ends up in D.C.

Hog's Gone Fishin 03-29-2024 12:08 PM
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2eUY5PDEBsg?si=ipnsfAREUaTIaoBH" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mlyonsd 03-29-2024 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17461598)
It's almost like that's what the past ~15 posts in this thread have been discussing.
It wasn't clear to me that the registration fee discussion was an annual fee or one time charge.

DaFace 03-29-2024 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd (Post 17461938)
It wasn't clear to me that the registration fee discussion was an annual fee or one time charge.
Ah. In Colorado at least, it's an annual fee.

HemiEd 03-30-2024 01:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17461508)
You would think you would be more thankful to the people that are helping lower the price of YOUR gas.
As calculated earlier, the energy cost of producing the Tesla Model S Long Range battery pack is equivalent to about 15.76 barrels of oil, or about 2,675.2 gallons of diesel fuel.Feb 26, 2023


https://famguardian.org/3-million-ba...0diesel%20fuel.

SurroundedByMorons 03-30-2024 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17253285)
I run a home energy monitor, and in the past 12 months our cars have used 2,661 KWh compared to our other usage of 5,023 KWh. So in our case, EV usage is about 50% of our house's usage.

I'd be really curious to know where in the world a 13x number came from. Obviously not reality, but it's a bit random.
Which home energy monitor do you use? Do you like/recommend?

BWillie 03-30-2024 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17462519)
As calculated earlier, the energy cost of producing the Tesla Model S Long Range battery pack is equivalent to about 15.76 barrels of oil, or about 2,675.2 gallons of diesel fuel.Feb 26, 2023


https://famguardian.org/3-million-ba...0diesel%20fuel.
Are you under the impression that other cars don't take any energy to make? I don't understand what you are trying to prove here.

DaFace 03-30-2024 10:50 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurroundedByMorons (Post 17462605)
Which home energy monitor do you use? Do you like/recommend?
I'm using this one from Emporia Energy. It takes some level of tech savvy to install and configure, but their tech support via chat is really good at helping you work through things.

I like it better than the popular one from Sense, though. Where Sense just monitors overall use and then tries to use AI to identify what's what, the Emporia monitor can measure each circuit individually, which seems like it'd be far more accurate.

The Emporia one can be a little bit of a rat's nest once you install it, but it all just hides in your breaker box anyway. Here's a photo of mine just to give you the idea.

My only complaint is that the app is just OK, and there are a lot of "features" that just say coming soon...and have said that ever since I got it 2 years ago. But they're not critical, so if you're just looking for the basic function of measuring usage by circuit, it works fine. I believe the app has a demo mode that you can download to get a feel for how it would work before you buy.

HemiEd 03-30-2024 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17462669)
Are you under the impression that other cars don't take any energy to make? I don't understand what you are trying to prove here.
Maybe if I had underlined, bolded and italicized BATTERY you might have understood better.

lewdog 03-30-2024 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17462691)
Maybe if I had underlined, bolded and italicized BATTERY you might have understood better.
BWillie is a Gen X’er in a Boomers body/mind.

BWillie 03-30-2024 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 17462691)
Maybe if I had underlined, bolded and italicized BATTERY you might have understood better.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/el...-vehicle-myths

https://www.epa.gov/system/files/sty...?itok=2RCNUe6A

Also, any manufacturing costs for the creation of the batteries can be greatly offset or reduced in the future being that 90%-100% of the battery can be recycled.

Please don't be mad. I'm not mad at you for driving an ICE vehicle.

BWillie 03-30-2024 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewdog (Post 17462707)
BWillie is a Gen X’er in a Boomers body/mind.
Gen Ex ends in like 1980. I am a Millennial or more accurately a Xennial. A millennial but not a pussy. I grew up in the good ole days where we used to call each other bundle of stickss for no reason.


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