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-   -   Time to trade Jared Allen... (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=160417)

Fire Me Boy! 03-28-2007 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trndobrd
Sims couldn't make it past the candy bowl on the receptionist desk.
Why would he want to? If he eats 72 oz. in one sitting he gets a t-shirt.

Wile_E_Coyote 03-28-2007 10:56 AM
The crazy country boy with a wild hair across his ass will play well with fans in Atlanta. I'm surprised he doesn't have a massive following here

booger 03-28-2007 10:57 AM
Boomer will be pissed.

Fire Me Boy! 03-28-2007 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
Boomer will be pissed.
I hope he doesn't hold out, too.

el borracho 03-28-2007 11:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
We talk about the guy like he's Shawne Merriman.

He's not. He's had 9, 11 and 7.5 sacks. Hate to break it to both Jared and the folks in KC, but that's really nothing special. His average production amounts to what would be an off year for a good pass rusher. His production dictates that he's, so far, nothing more than a mediocre player who happens to be a fan favorite on a defense that's been historically bad for years. And now he's having repeat legal troubles and playing the vocal and disgruntled stuff in the media.

If I'm the gm, I shop him. He doesn't deserve a big contract at this point. If Allen homers want to say he's earned it on the field (which I don't believe - he's earned a mid-level contract), I'd counter by saying he lost that right by his behavior off of it. He's got to prove he can stay clean and be a team player, as well as perform like a guy who moves mountains, before I make that kind of investment. It just wouldn't be a smart move in my book. Let some other team take that risk and deal with his bullshit.
To be fair, Merriman has a lot more talent around him than Allen does. With a superior supporting cast Allen might legitmately be considered one of the best DEs.

Personally, I hope Allen stays but I would consider a trade if the compensation were enough.

tiptap 03-28-2007 11:00 AM
This is all posturing. And the trading, if it does take place, will be during the draft days. He is strong bait if KC wants to move up somewhere. And he can't afford to slack off this year when he does play after 4 games because he wants that good contract as a totally free agent if it came to that. No sweat yet.

Fire Me Boy! 03-28-2007 11:01 AM
He can't be traded unless he has a contract. The most that can happen at this point is if ATL makes an offer and we don't match it.

booger 03-28-2007 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!
I hope he doesn't hold out, too.
Boomer need to just learn to play FB and wait his turn for a holdout.

Chiefnj 03-28-2007 11:06 AM
Some of the comparisons people are making are stupid. Comparing to OLB's in 3-4 defenses? Allen has done an amazing job for a small school prospect that has had zero help on the DL for his first two years and partial help this last year at the other DE position. And yes I say partial because Hali got dinged and clearly hit the rookie wall and wasn't nearly as consistent as Allen was.

BigRock 03-28-2007 11:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
To be fair, Merriman has a lot more talent around him than Allen does. With a superior supporting cast Allen might legitmately be considered one of the best DEs.
I agree. Give him a year with a solid DT and see what his numbers are. It's not like he's earning those stats people are posting with all-world tackles playing next to him.

And the Atlanta trade stuff is brought up more on KC boards than it seems to be talked about on Falcons' boards. Do they seriously have an interest in giving up some high picks for him?

DeezNutz 03-28-2007 11:09 AM
This might get bashed, but what about Allen plus our 1st for Atlanta's first-round selection? Sounds like something Denver would pull off, though it might take more to get into the top ten.

CupidStunt 03-28-2007 11:09 AM
Trade him for a second-rounder and something else (maybe a high day two or player), package that with out first to move up and grab Levi Brown, and then take LaMarr Woodley with our second pick (who is going to be one of the best DEs out of this class; a Mark Anderson-type - football player, not athlete).

Lzen 03-28-2007 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical
Do you really trust Carl Peterson to use those picks effectively given his history?
Yeah, it's not like he would ever draft anybody like say a Jared Allen.

PunkinDrublic 03-28-2007 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
How about lets not forget about the whole DUI/suspension thing when the thought of trading him for 1st day picks is concerned. I love the way he plays and believe his attitude in the lockeroom is good for team chemistry minus the DUI's. It's going to be hard to give him the contract he wants being only 1 mess up away from a year suspension. Plus his Agent is an unknown guy who is going to try to make a name for himself with this contract. That doesn't bode well for us either.

When the Allen wants traded article first came out in the star a month or so ago, Petersons response was not wanting to trade him and he was asking for too much money.
That's pretty much what I read into it. I think it's his douchebag agent that seems to be fanning the flames.

booger 03-28-2007 11:39 AM
Hopefully not Hadley Engledork part II

shaneo69 03-28-2007 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRock
And the Atlanta trade stuff is brought up more on KC boards than it seems to be talked about on Falcons' boards. Do they seriously have an interest in giving up some high picks for him?
Probably because Nick Athan brought up Atlanta as a possible trade partner for Allen, which htismaqe then referenced in a previous thread from early March.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=159564

Phobia 03-28-2007 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Me Boy!
He can't be traded unless he has a contract. The most that can happen at this point is if ATL makes an offer and we don't match it.
True, it's not technically a trade but the Chiefs and alternate team can work out reduced compensation which is a trade-like transaction.

htismaqe 03-28-2007 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneo69
Probably because Nick "The Erroneous One" Athan brought up Atlanta as a possible trade partner for Allen, which htismaqe then referenced in a previous thread from early March.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=159564
The info originally came from Mitch Holthus, not Athan.

htismaqe 03-28-2007 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan
I'm not saying anything bad about Hali. I love Hali.

But let's not overreact and create a mob scene to trade Jared because he's doing the whole agent/contract thing.
For me, it's really not about Allen. It's about accumulating draft picks in an effort to overhaul this team.

Allen represents our best bet to get multiple first day picks for a guy that is a potential problem to the team.

booger 03-28-2007 12:23 PM
I'm suprised his Agent hasn't got him a visit or visits like Franchise FA Charles Grant from NO visited the bucs. I thought this was in his original threat when it first came out in the Star he wanted traded.

Logical 03-28-2007 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
We talk about the guy like he's Shawne Merriman.

He's not. He's had 9, 11 and 7.5 sacks. Hate to break it to both Jared and the folks in KC, but that's really nothing special. His average production amounts to what would be an off year for a good pass rusher. His production dictates that he's, so far, nothing more than a mediocre player who happens to be a fan favorite on a defense that's been historically bad for years. And now he's having repeat legal troubles and playing the vocal and disgruntled stuff in the media.

If I'm the gm, I shop him. He doesn't deserve a big contract at this point. If Allen homers want to say he's earned it on the field (which I don't believe - he's earned a mid-level contract), I'd counter by saying he lost that right by his behavior off of it. He's got to prove he can stay clean and be a team player, as well as perform like a guy who moves mountains, before I make that kind of investment. It just wouldn't be a smart move in my book. Let some other team take that risk and deal with his bullshit.
While I don't really disagree with you, what you have pointed out is that he does not really have much trade value.

Reerun_KC 03-28-2007 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
For me, it's really not about Allen. It's about accumulating draft picks in an effort to overhaul this team.

Allen represents our best bet to get multiple first day picks for a guy that is a potential problem to the team.

:bravo:

Very well said... Stocking up on Picks is the only way the Chiefs are ever going to contend...

hell I would take a 2nd and 3rd for him...

More picks the better

Logical 03-28-2007 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
For me, it's really not about Allen. It's about accumulating draft picks in an effort to overhaul this team.

Allen represents our best bet to get multiple first day picks for a guy that is a potential problem to the team.
I have my doubts we could get better than a 3rd and a 5th for him, as Keg pointed out his production really has not been all pro quality.

beer bacon 03-28-2007 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jAZ
I don't blame him for doing this. It's all about using whatever leverage they have to get the best deal they can.
Step #1 to getting best deal you possibly can: Don't be a douchebag that constantly gets arrested for driving around drunk.

beer bacon 03-28-2007 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
We talk about the guy like he's Shawne Merriman.

He's not. He's had 9, 11 and 7.5 sacks. Hate to break it to both Jared and the folks in KC, but that's really nothing special. His average production amounts to what would be an off year for a good pass rusher. His production dictates that he's, so far, nothing more than a mediocre player who happens to be a fan favorite on a defense that's been historically bad for years. And now he's having repeat legal troubles and playing the vocal and disgruntled stuff in the media.

If I'm the gm, I shop him. He doesn't deserve a big contract at this point. If Allen homers want to say he's earned it on the field (which I don't believe - he's earned a mid-level contract), I'd counter by saying he lost that right by his behavior off of it. He's got to prove he can stay clean and be a team player, as well as perform like a guy who moves mountains, before I make that kind of investment. It just wouldn't be a smart move in my book. Let some other team take that risk and deal with his bullshit.
Sacks aren't everything. He got consistent pressure, and he was also tops among d-linemen in tackles and tackles for loss.

beer bacon 03-28-2007 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie Bunker
I think one could argue that Allen isn't even our best DE. IMO Hali is a better all-around DE.
Hali had a better rookie season then JA, but JA didn't have a good DE to help him out his rookie season. The only advantage Hali had over JA last season was half a sack and more forced fumbles. JA had more tackles, more tackles for loss, more passes defensed, and way more QB pressures.

Reerun_KC 03-28-2007 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beer bacon
Sacks aren't everything. He got consistent pressure, and he was also tops among d-linemen in tackles and tackles for loss.

Actually that is correct, We need to trade him based on his potential and future potential...

Unlike Carl and Chiefs Fans, Most teams look at future growth and preformance, we on the other hand, cry about the "proven stats" and usually overpay for guys past their prime...

Time is now to trade Allen.

beer bacon 03-28-2007 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC
Actually that is correct, We need to trade him based on his potential and future potential...

Unlike Carl and Chiefs Fans, Most teams look at future growth and preformance, we on the other hand, cry about the "proven stats" and usually overpay for guys past their prime...

Time is now to trade Allen.
The only reasonable trade for Allen would involve a first round draft pick. The guy is too young and too good to give up for anything else. We aren't likely to get any better by giving up a guy that could be a franchise player for the next 5+ years for a couple picks that have a <50% chance of doing that. Given our drafting track record, <50% is generous.

Carl needs to convince Allen to hire a new agent, and then go hot and heavy on renegotiations with him.

ct 03-28-2007 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trndobrd
What has Allen actually said? Anyone seen any quotes from the man hisself, not the agent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
•ALLEN WON’T BE AT OFFSEASON WORKOUTS: Ken Harris, the agent for defensive end Jared Allen, said his client won’t participate when the Chiefs begin their offseason program Monday.

“To my knowledge, I don’t think he plans to be back in Kansas City until training camp,” Harris said.

That means Allen also wouldn’t participate in the only offseason event that’s mandatory for most players, the three-day minicamp in early June. It wouldn’t be mandatory for Allen, who doesn’t have a contract.

Harris indicated that Allen probably wouldn’t sign the one-year, $2.35 million contract offer he has from the Chiefs until shortly before the start of camp. Allen is unhappy with contract negotiations with the Chiefs and has said he wants a trade.

| Star news services contributed to this report
Allen's agent say "blah blah blah".

If somebody offered a 2nd+3rd, or a nice move up in the 1st and a later pick (say replacing our missing 4th), I'd do it. Done deal.

Chiefs Pantalones 03-28-2007 01:52 PM
I trust Allen will stay in shape while he's not here.

This is normal stuff going on; it's the business of the NFL. He'll re-sign with us. Herm had dinner with him not too long ago and I heard it went fine.

Chiefnj 03-28-2007 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reerun_KC
Actually that is correct, We need to trade him based on his potential and future potential...

Unlike Carl and Chiefs Fans, Most teams look at future growth and preformance, we on the other hand, cry about the "proven stats" and usually overpay for guys past their prime...

Time is now to trade Allen.

Allen is past his prime?? He's coming off a second day rookie contract. This is the exact type of player that good teams keep - a player that is still young, is still improving and is proven in the system.

Reerun_KC 03-28-2007 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
Allen is past his prime?? He's coming off a second day rookie contract. This is the exact type of player that good teams keep - a player that is still young, is still improving and is proven in the system.
Yes Allen is in his prime, I think you misread it... I am for one signing him or trading him to get the most picks out of him.

Carlota69 03-28-2007 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trndobrd
What has Allen actually said? Anyone seen any quotes from the man hisself, not the agent.
Well from his mouth he said--

The contract stuff has ben going on for well over a year--it's just made the media in the last few months. He wants to be a Chief. He loves the city and his teamates. However, business is business. They're just negotiating with Carl--and you know how that is...Carl isn't easy, therefore you got to ask for the moon, the sun and the stars just so you can get a piece of the big dipper. Thats true in any negotiation.

Also, he hasn't had a drink in 6 months and is doing very well without alcohol.

He is a vey cool dude and very down to earth.

sedated 03-28-2007 02:22 PM
who gives a fugg?

normal operating procedure.


"Priest, what do you need to do physically to be ready for the season?"

"Get paid"

htismaqe 03-28-2007 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical
I have my doubts we could get better than a 3rd and a 5th for him, as Keg pointed out his production really has not been all pro quality.
Right now, the comp would be 1st and 3rd. I pretty much guarantee we could get 2 first day picks for him...

Logical 03-28-2007 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
Right now, the comp would be 1st and 3rd. I pretty much guarantee we could get 2 first day picks for him...
Parker you know as well as I do that the compensation value has very little to do with true trade value. I also think you overrate Carls ability to make a good deal.

DaneMcCloud 03-28-2007 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by booger
Boomer will be pissed.
Boomer's gonna be lucky to make the team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
Allen has done an amazing job for a small school prospect
He was a "small school" (Divison 1-AA isn't small, BTW) school prospect because of a drunken high school prank turned ugly. That's the reason he ended up at Idaho in the first place.

The guy hasn't grown up since. If the Chiefs can get adequate compensation (2nd rounder +), move him.

ct 03-28-2007 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud
Boomer's gonna be lucky to make the team.



He was a "small school" (Divison 1-AA isn't small, BTW) school prospect because of a drunken high school prank turned ugly. That's the reason he ended up at Idaho in the first place.

The guy hasn't grown up since. If the Chiefs can get adequate compensation (2nd rounder +), move him.
An often overlooked point.

Archie Bunker 03-28-2007 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud
He was a "small school" (Divison 1-AA isn't small, BTW) school prospect because of a drunken high school prank turned ugly. That's the reason he ended up at Idaho in the first place.

The guy hasn't grown up since. If the Chiefs can get adequate compensation (2nd rounder +), move him.
Exactly. He hasn't shown the ability to learn from his mistakes. I'm not sure this time will be any different and honestly it is not worth the gamble to find out.

Eleazar 03-28-2007 03:18 PM
I'd take a second and a third for him.

Archie Bunker 03-28-2007 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla Thunder
I trust Allen will stay in shape while he's not here.
If the concert pic from last year is any indication I'm not so sure he will.

Chiefnj 03-28-2007 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie Bunker
Exactly. He hasn't shown the ability to learn from his mistakes. I'm not sure this time will be any different and honestly it is not worth the gamble to find out.

What gamble?

Archie Bunker 03-28-2007 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
What gamble?
Passing on much needed picks in hope that Allen stays clean is a gamble.

Messier 03-28-2007 03:46 PM
I don't think he's going anywhere. And if we did trade him we would just have to use the picks we got to get another DE, and might, or more likely, might not be as good as Allen. That's dumb.

HemiEd 03-28-2007 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
Allen is past his prime?? He's coming off a second day rookie contract. This is the exact type of player that good teams keep - a player that is still young, is still improving and is proven in the system.
Exactly, if we get rid of Allen we are making a big mistake! He said on his interview with Carlota69 that he had not had a drink in 5 or 6 months. I wish we had 20 more like him.

Archie Bunker 03-28-2007 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd
Exactly, if we get rid of Allen we are making a big mistake! He said on his interview with Carlota69 that he had not had a drink in 5 or 6 months. I wish we had 20 more like him.
I'm not saying Allen is dishonest but what else would he say?

Dr. Johnny Fever 03-28-2007 04:16 PM
I don't have a big problem with this news from Jared's camp. I think they're just grasping at straws to find some leverage at this point.

I can appreciate the folks who want him gone though. It does show that many of us put quality of the person over quality of play... which I think is a refreshing thing in today's world of sports.

Crashride 03-28-2007 04:31 PM
It would hurt to have allen gone. Him and hali make a great team and when we finnaly get some bruiser dts our defense will be one of the best for a while since were young, minus law and surtain of course.

Easy 6 03-28-2007 05:37 PM
Not no, but, HELL NO!!!

WHEN was the last time we had TWO outstanding DE's??? So now we just dump one??? NEIN!!!!!!

RedThat 03-28-2007 06:29 PM
Trade him.

And if you can get 2nd and 3rd round picks for him? Absolutely. You trade him.

I know there are a lot of Chiefs fans out there that love Allen. But, in all honesty, there are a handful of DE's that are better than him. And imo, some may praise the guy for his play, but lets be honest here, we are Chiefs fans, and I think the reason we say he is good is because he has been the best DE KC has had in years. I mean, he is a probowler compared to guys like Hicks, Holliday, and Clemons.

But if you compare him to a lot of other DE's in the league, he is probably average to above average. nothing more than a complimentary end with off field issues, and to top it off, complain about a new contract.

Get rid of him. We have no use for guys like that on this team. draft a DE with character, that has potential. I trust in Herms braintrust on defense. I think he can find a DE to replace Allen no problem.

Deberg_1990 03-28-2007 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull
. But, in all honesty, there are a handful of DE's that are better than him.

So which is it??? IM confused.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull
. But if you compare him to a lot of other DE's in the league, he is probably average to above average. nothing more than a complimentary end

milkman 03-28-2007 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull
Trade him.

And if you can get 2nd and 3rd round picks for him? Absolutely. You trade him.

I know there are a lot of Chiefs fans out there that love Allen. But, in all honesty, there are a handful of DE's that are better than him. And imo, some may praise the guy for his play, but lets be honest here, we are Chiefs fans, and I think the reason we say he is good is because he has been the best DE KC has had in years. I mean, he is a probowler compared to guys like Hicks, Holliday, and Clemons.

But if you compare him to a lot of other DE's in the league, he is probably average to above average. nothing more than a complimentary end with off field issues, and to top it off, complain about a new contract.

Get rid of him. We have no use for guys like that on this team. draft a DE with character, that has potential. I trust in Herms braintrust on defense. I think he can find a DE to replace Allen no problem.
I think some of you are underrating Allen.
The guy has been productive for 3 years playing on a crappyass defense.

That being said, I would make the trade.

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free
Not no, but, HELL NO!!!

WHEN was the last time we had TWO outstanding DE's??? So now we just dump one??? NEIN!!!!!!
Agreed

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
I think we have other players we can build around, players with more natural talent, better upside, and without the off-the-field and behavioral issues.
Who?

htismaqe 03-28-2007 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog414141
Who?
I was specifically thinking of Hali and DJ when I typed that...

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
I was specifically thinking of Hali and DJ when I typed that...
I see. I actually was starting to forget DJ was on the team :p. But I don't think we should trade Allen just because it wouldn't be worth it. We won't be getting a 1st for him, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick wouldn't fill the gap he leaves at DE IMO. I say keep him for this year, and if he stays out of trouble, Carl should give him the contract he's asking for (Or close to it) next year.

htismaqe 03-28-2007 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog414141
I see. I actually was starting to forget DJ was on the team :p. But I don't think we should trade Allen just because it wouldn't be worth it. We won't be getting a 1st for him, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick wouldn't fill the gap he leaves at DE IMO. I say keep him for this year, and if he stays out of trouble, Carl should give him the contract he's asking for (Or close to it) next year.
A 2nd and/or 3rd absolutely WOULD fill the gap. Allen was a 4th-round pick.

We could get TWO players like him, without the off-field issues.

Chieftain58 03-28-2007 08:26 PM
I like him, we need to keep him for the right price

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
A 2nd and/or 3rd absolutely WOULD fill the gap. Allen was a 4th-round pick.

We could get TWO players like him, without the off-field issues.
How do you know? The draft is filled with busts. I don't see the point in drafting a DE who has a greater chance at amounting to nothing more than a free-agent in 3 years. We've all seen what Allen can do in a game. His motor doesn't stop! He's going to have to grow a pair and mature, but when/if he does, we'll be kicking ourselves when we see him in a different uniform.

htismaqe 03-28-2007 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog414141
How do you know? The draft is filled with busts. I don't see the point in drafting a DE who has a greater chance at amounting to nothing more than a free-agent in 3 years. We've all seen what Allen can do in a game. His motor doesn't stop! He's going to have to grow a pair and mature, but when/if he does, we'll be kicking ourselves when we see him in a different uniform.
How much time do you give him to mature?

As was pointed out previously, the reason he didn't play D-1 football is because of his drinking problem. He's facing his 3rd-strike DUI.

He's threatening not to show up until he absolutely has to.

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
How much time do you give him to mature?

As was pointed out previously, the reason he didn't play D-1 football is because of his drinking problem. He's facing his 3rd-strike DUI.

He's threatening not to show up until he absolutely has to.
Personally, I'm giving him a year to mature. If he does, good. We sign him long term. If he doesn't, as much as it pains me to say it, then I guess he won't be back in KC

htismaqe 03-28-2007 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog414141
Personally, I'm giving him a year to mature. If he does, good. We sign him long term. If he doesn't, as much as it pains me to say it, then I guess he won't be back in KC
That's a damn shame.

Next year, he'll be an unrestricted free agent, meaning if he leaves we get NOTHING.

unothadeal 03-28-2007 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
That's a damn shame.

Next year, he'll be an unrestricted free agent, meaning if he leaves we get NOTHING.
We can always tag him. But does that mean we can't trade him if we were to decide to?

htismaqe 03-28-2007 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog414141
We can always tag him. But does that mean we can't trade him if we were to decide to?
Yes, we could franchise tag him and still get something for him.

The problem with that is what his tender becomes. Right now as a RFA, it's about $2.5M.

If we franchise him, it becomes the average of the top 5 DE's in the game. Do we want to pay Jared Allen, even for one year, the way Peppers and Freeney get paid?

Mecca 03-28-2007 11:34 PM
If you franchise tag him then you are paying him the average top 5 for one of the highest paid positions in the league......unless you think he's Peppers, Freeney good then he's not worth that money.....

If he hasn't matured yet at the age he is, odds are it's gonna be awhile.

htismaqe 03-29-2007 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mecca
If you franchise tag him then you are paying him the average top 5 for one of the highest paid positions in the league......unless you think he's Peppers, Freeney good then he's not worth that money.....

If he hasn't matured yet at the age he is, odds are it's gonna be awhile.
And by "a while" you mean "never".

MOhillbilly 03-29-2007 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
A 2nd and/or 3rd absolutely WOULD fill the gap. Allen was a 4th-round pick.

We could get TWO players like him, without the off-field issues.
speculation-KC could very well end up w/twice the good and triple the trash.

htismaqe 03-29-2007 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOhillbilly
speculation-KC could very well end up w/twice the good and triple the trash.
It's all speculation.

But if this team is truly building for the future, they have to get as many good players as possible.

The best way to do that is trade the players that have TRUE value. We can trade guys like Trent and Wesley but they don't have much value.

We can trade LJ and get ravaged in the process because his on-field value and his trade value are out-of-whack.

Or we can trade a guy like Allen who is actually worth in a trade what we could get out of him on the field. Furthermore, he's facing a 4-game suspension and is one potential incident away from being gone for a season.

MOhillbilly 03-29-2007 07:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
It's all speculation.

But if this team is truly building for the future, they have to get as many good players as possible.

The best way to do that is trade the players that have TRUE value. We can trade guys like Trent and Wesley but they don't have much value.

We can trade LJ and get ravaged in the process because his on-field value and his trade value are out-of-whack.

Or we can trade a guy like Allen who is actually worth in a trade what we could get out of him on the field. Furthermore, he's facing a 4-game suspension and is one potential incident away from being gone for a season.
i wouldnt mind seeing allen traded one bit but i wouldnt want to get stuck w/ a sulking player because peterson is a hardhead and wants more than what hes worth.
or we trade and go after TWEENERS like we have sooooo many times in the past.
But yeah a trade has more upside in the longrun than keeping a headcase like allen.

htismaqe 03-29-2007 07:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOhillbilly
i wouldnt mind seeing allen traded one bit but i wouldnt want to get stuck w/ a sulking player because peterson is a hardhead and wants more than what hes worth.
or we trade and go after TWEENERS like we have sooooo many times in the past.
But yeah a trade has more upside in the longrun than keeping a headcase like allen.
Put it this way:

If Vermeil was the coach, I wouldn't trade him.

With Herm here, I'd try to get as many 1st-day draft picks as possible.

Not only do I think we could actually GET something with those picks, but then the cupboard would be fully-stocked when Herm leaves.

Reerun_KC 03-29-2007 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
Put it this way:

If Vermeil was the coach, I wouldn't trade him.

With Herm here, I'd try to get as many 1st-day draft picks as possible.

Not only do I think we could actually GET something with those picks, but then the cupboard would be fully-stocked when Herm leaves.

:bravo: Couldnt of said it better!

Chiefnj 03-29-2007 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
It's all speculation.

But if this team is truly building for the future, they have to get as many good players as possible.

The best way to do that is trade the players that have TRUE value. We can trade guys like Trent and Wesley but they don't have much value.

.
I disagree. You don't trade young ascending players. Those are the guys you build around. Those are the guys you are hoping to draft. You try to trade guys like Tony G, Law, Surtain, Green, etc.

In 2002 (Urlacher's third year) the Bears went 4-12. They didn't trade Urlacher for more picks because they were building for the future - they built around him because he was young and ascending.

The Colts were 6-10 in 2001 and Manning had a TD/INT ratio of about 1:1, they didn't trade him for more picks - they built around him.

In 1998/1999 when Marchibroda was struggling with the Ravens and Billick was taking overthey didn't trade Lewis (3rd year) for more picks. You keep your young good players because the draft is a complete crapshoot.

HemiEd 03-29-2007 07:57 AM
I watched the Thanksgiving game over last night. I would suggest anyone that has let the off season get to them, watch that game over. The reason I picked that game, I only have two saved on my DVR and can not get past the introductions on the playoff game.

Jared Allen dominated the first half of that game, he was a major influence on the outcome. He was everywhere, fun to watch again.

People that think we can just plug another draft choice in an go, are nuts IMO.

He is one of the better DEs in the history of the Chiefs, and we want to let him go over possible suspensions? Nuts I tell you, that is just nuts. Jared Allen needs to remain a Chief.

Brock 03-29-2007 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
You don't trade young ascending players.
Unless they're more trouble than they're worth. Think about how pissed you'll be if and when Allen gets suspended for a year and how you could have gotten 2 or 3 players for him.

HemiEd 03-29-2007 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock
Unless they're more trouble than they're worth. Think about how pissed you'll be if and when Allen gets suspended for a year and how you could have gotten 2 or 3 players for him.
I would be even more pissed if he is on another team, and doesn't get suspended for a year. I believe him when he said he has learned his lesson, these kind don't come along every day.

unothadeal 03-29-2007 08:50 AM
Carl should assign him a personal driver. Problem solved.

keg in kc 03-29-2007 09:07 AM
I love reading the way some of you guys talk about him. It's like he's a combination of Bruce Smith and Reggie White with some Derrick Thomas thrown in.

When in reality his performance so far is exactly 1 sack better than Eric Hicks from 2000-2002.

HemiEd 03-29-2007 09:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
I love reading the way some of you guys talk about him. It's like he's a combination of Bruce Smith and Reggie White with some Derrick Thomas thrown in.

When in reality his performance so far is exactly 1 sack better than Eric Hicks from 2000-2002.
Do you have the QB pressure numbers? Tackles? That is what I noticed in watching that game again last night and focusing on him. He is a game changer, period.

IMO the sacks do not tell the whole story.

InChiefsHeaven 03-29-2007 09:18 AM
Yeah, you can't just go by sack numbers. I mean, if you are saying he's only a marginal upgrade to Eric Hicks, you are seriously on crack.

Chiefnj 03-29-2007 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc
I love reading the way some of you guys talk about him. It's like he's a combination of Bruce Smith and Reggie White with some Derrick Thomas thrown in.

When in reality his performance so far is exactly 1 sack better than Eric Hicks from 2000-2002.
DT put up great numbers playing next to Eric Hicks, Ryan Sims and Junior Siavii.


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