Or, come draft day, the BPA is a WR.

I guess that says a lot.....


:rolleyes:

until we start drafting better

We did start drafting better. I'm not gonna hold Herm accountable for DV's bad drafting.

Herm's batting 1.000, as far as I'm concerned. Like I said earlier, until Herm fires off a Vermeil-like run of 3-4 shitty drafts, I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

and i'm not gonna give the Chiefs a pass after 1 "non-sucky" draft.


if they continue to draft better, people will stop talking about it. Just like people will stop talking about them failing to win a playoff game in 13 years as soon as they start winning.

pretty simple

Your prerogative.

Seeing such an immediate improvement on draft day last year, after so many poor drafts, speaks volumes to me. Not to you. Fair enough.

Where was this huge immediate improvement in the draft?

The mid first round pick started, which is good - but expected. Other than that there were only 3 starts from all the rest and the biggest impact from a 7th rounder. 2-6 were kind of busts for the first year.

yeah, but two to four more picks from last year will start in their second year, and you call that a bust?

i'm glad we showed improvement last year ..... i hope it continues.


consider me in "show me" mode

Hali was a stud. Plain and simple.

Pollard was a special teams stud. 3 blocked kicks, a TD and numerous big hits/tackles on ST. He'll be a starter in this 2nd year.

Croyle: We all knew he wouldn't be a factor until this year at the earliest, possibly 08. He was a steal in R3.

No R4 pick.

Maxey appears to be the lone bust of the group. We'll know more after camp.

Stallings: Where exactly was he gonna play? Ahead of a pair of Pro Bowlers?

Webb: Herm has already said he'll likely start in 07

Page: A R7 pick who most thought wouldn't even make the team. How many rookies can say they baited the great Peyton Manning into throwing a pick in a playoff game? Another starter in 07.



Go back at DV's drafts and show me a year where more than 2 solid picks were made, much less 3-5.

I'm not sure how you think this works, but players drafted in the later rounds don't usually start their rookie year. Those are players that you hope you can eventually develop into starters. Or in some cases the most you can expect is a quality backup.

The only pick that I would say was "bad" would be Marcus Maxey.

We will probably have 5 starters next year from that draft. That's awesome.

If Pollard and Croyle start and suck it will make that draft not look so good, there's a difference in starter and productive starter........Samie Parker is a drafted starter I still consider him a shit pick.

The reason people around here keep saying WR is it has been a pressing need for over a decade and this draft board shows that it is highly likely that a WR will be the best available player when we are drafting.

If this team reaches on Tank Tyler, Daymion Hughes who I like but not as a 1st rounder or some crap Tackle I will seriously throw shit at my TV. I'd rather pick Ted Ginn than do that shit and I don't even like Ginn.

Is Justin Harrell still a reach too? I'd rather go for Harrell than Ginn.

Yes

Well if you want a guy who'll probably miss 4-5 games a year........I really don't like the DT's this year. I don't think this is the year to be addressing that position.

To me the Chiefs can find a starting caliber WR and CB with the first 2 picks without much of a problem, if they take a DT there's a legit chance that he'll bust and we won't get a starter at 1 of the other positions.......

Tamba Hali was supposedly a "reach."

That's completely different he was in the 10-15 range before workouts then dropped because of them.......

Guys like Justin Harrell were never 1st's and are rising because of workouts..........it's total opposite.

Harrell is intriging.

One wonders where his draft stock might have been had he not missed most of the season due to injury.

With that injury he was still considered a mid 2nd round pick.

His stock has risen since the end of the season, but he's something of an enigma as the result of that missed season.

Had he played through the season, he might have been a guy that was a first round prospect.

yea ....... a reach of like 10 draft spots


hardly the same as drafting William bartee in the 2nd round instead of the 4th.


or savaii in the 2nd intead of the 6th

etc,etc

why will he miss 4-5 games a year?

My point is, everyone takes Jesus Kiper Jr. and the rest of these so-called draft experts at their word regarding these guys.

Joe Montana in the 3rd?

Tom Brady in the 6th?

Marques Colston in the 7th?

Ryan Leaf, Tim Coach, etc.

Stock rising, stock dropping.

All a bunch of BS, if you ask me.

did you see him on Path to the draft the other day, thursday I think.....

No, missed it.

Exactly. See post 59.

You may have misunderstood the sarchasm in my post. Hali was supposedly a reach, but turned out to be a phenomenal pick.

I'm saying Harrell or Tyler could be as well, even though people think they are a reach at 23.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4390/sarindexap3.jpg


:shrug:















:p

I knew very little of him before seeing it.

He dropped because of a torn bicep, pretty knarly injury, but he just last week has medical clearance for camp. That alone should put him as at least the number three DT in the draft, ahead of Tank (according to Mike Mayock).

Here's what impresses me as his character - he injured himself in the game against (florida, I think) and he said he did what he thought a Good Defensive captain should do, he played through the pain. After the game he was diagnosed with a torn bicep and needed surgery, thus ending his final year in college.

- I want a guy that likes to play the game. He does.

Also, he was still injured at the combine and could have easily said so and waited for his pro-day to work out, but he didn't. the only thing he didn't do at the combine is the bench.

His stats at Ten, were pretty good, he's a motor penetrating DT and would fit in with what we want pretty darn well.

Not saying I know we will pick him, I don't have a problem with us picking him at 23 is all I'm trying to say. And I don't want the bottom of the tier at WR just because everyone thinks that's what we need.

Whoops.

S-A-R-C-A-S-M. Sarcasm.

No spelling bees for me......

That's the thing.

I got the sense that Harrell was pretty highly thought of at the start of the season, and had he not been injured, he might well have been a lower first round prospect by season's end.

His workouts might have moved him up into top 20.

Because he lost the season to injury his stock fell, and his workouts have moved him back up to where he should have been if not for that injury.

I get what you are saying, heck yeah, no telling how good the season could have went, he may have even been number 1 or 2 on the list of DT's.

I just didn't understand the "damaged goods" type of comment. It was a real injury and he still finished that game, I don't know that I could have done it......

He was humble and well spoken in his interview too, I know that doesn't mean everything but you can start to get a pretty good sense about a guy.

You know, Pacman sounded a little rehearsed in his interview with sanders, well Harrell sounded much more natural

Harrell does have an injury history aside from the biceps.
Broken ankle that cost him 5 or 6 games in his Soph(?) season, and another ankle injury in his Junior year, so it does lead to durability questions.

I admit, I hadn't heard about the other injuries, so maybe that's where that comes from.

My appologies to the "damaged goods" comment makers.....

:)

didn't the Chiefs have a Guard that blew a bicep and he never was the same?

left guard .... went to New York later to be near his sick kid

can't remember his name

Szott

Age might be a factor in recovery for that injury.

Harrell was injury prone in college........that's why I say that if you pick him you should just expect it.

I'm just going on what I think and I think this is a God awful DT year, 2 of these guys would be 1st rounders in a normal year the rest wouldn't, I don't want 2nd round talent in the first because the Chiefs wan't a DT so bad they forget what value is about.

and I guess I was just agreeing with you basically, except I think Ginn could be second round talent too.

Like I said I'm not a big fan of his either but I consider him 1st value, his special teams ability and speed puts him there.

By the way GoChiefs little report on him was wrong Todd McShay said he ran 4.39-4.49 in his 40's.

I'd rather have Ginn than one of the reach tackles like Tank Tyler.

Sorry, I thought we were just comparing the idea of taking either Ginn or Harrell, not tank.

I don't have a problem with WR as a first rounder, but think it should be Bowe or Jarrett, bigger, good blockers and good route runners, we have a couple speedy guys already. So that counts Ginn out in my opinion.

Tank is big, but I don't know that he's good fit for us, maybe if we got lucky enough for him to be there in the second, not for a first. However if Bowe and Jarrett are gone and Harrell is there, that wouldn't be a reach IMO. That's all I'm going for. Harrell over Ginn if that's the two choices. In reality though it's also going to depend on who else is available, CB or even OT, but I hope for someone that has starting potential for us.

I think they said Harrell could even play DE in a 3-4 and we have that as a possible package for us, and we need versitality on the d line because of the alcoholic allen.

which is why he'll probably go in the top half of the 2nd round.


you really don't want to draft a guy with questions in the 1st round.

I think Bowe is going to go before our pick honestly.....I think Revis will also.

I think we're gonna be lookin at Ginn who I think will go right around our pick, Jarrett, one of the rising workout corners like Eric Wright and those reach DTs.......

To say we need a CB/DE more than we need a OL is rediculous. We have two stud DE's,even if one is going to miss 4 games. Yea,maybe Law and Surtan are old,but they play a high level for 2 more years. Meanwhile, our O-line is falling apart. Mostly because there all older than dirt,or can't play at the professional level.

What if those lineman aren't worthy of our pick, there is that to consider you know.

there isn't a guy we can pick that won't have some questions.....

Sure but I don't particulary like guys who get injured constantly.......you can't help the team if you're always injured.

Trade up. Or trade down like Herm was considering and get a bunch of young prospects than you can develop.

I like Bowe alot, not as much as Jarrett but I would be happy with either one of them before Ginn. But I think it would be a mistake not to take a WR at our spot.

but there are different types of questions

injury prone is not one that you usually want to mess with in round 1

well of course, there are a lot of things to consider, first of all who gets picked before we hit the clock.....

I'd like to target these;

WR - Bowe or Jarrett, either or both could be gone
OT - Brown if he fell, we would jump on. Staley, meh, I don't know.
Other OLine - if someone could impact and start, yes, don't know enough about them.
DT - wouldn't you love for Branch or Okaye to fall? But Harrell could be a good choice at 23 if Bowe, Jarrett are gone and no Brown or other Oline.

CB - maybe but depends on who is there, Like it was said a moment ago, Law and Surtain have a couple more starts in them, but I wouldn't be surprised to take a CB in the first, but do we need a first round talent with our scheme?

Other than that, who do we go for, I keep hearing BPA, but how do you tag someone like that? A.Peterson falls to 23, this BPA means we take him? He has injury concerns too.....

I know, just talking it out. Besides he had a broken ankle and a torn bicep (that he finished the game with, played through the pain, hint hint, he's tough and likes to play football) so they are not nagging little injuries. Not the four knee surgeries type of injuries that tend to kill a career.

Any article talking about the Chiefs' "draft intentions" between now and draft time should be taken with a grain of salt.

A.Peterson fits this description, IMO.

Ugh.......I HATE this philosphy you want offensive lineman be damned. This is how you end up with busts notice the DT's we've drafted.....

We have alot more holes than just line.......

Adrian Peterson would never make it past 12 so even pondering the question is foolish.

True.

However if the Chiefs were in the position to draft him, would you take that risk?

If I could spin it into trading Larry Johnson yea.....if not I probably wouldn't because they are almost carbon copies of each other, Petersons faster and a little more naturally talented but either way very similiar players.

if you rate him high you do ....... then you look to trade LJ instead of giving him a new huge contract.

I wouldn't, wasted pick IMO - even at 23. We have a style now and a good runner that fits that style, throwing AP in the mix would mess things up even if he didn't turn up bust. I like the idea of BPA, but there has to be a range, we have several needs and a few holes, but RB, TE, LB, S shouldn't be in our first round plans.

I don't care who the Chiefs draft as long as they draft BPA.

AP is similar to LJ?


sorry for my last post then, I figured AP more priest holmes style, finesse type, I was wrong. I still don't know that I'd take him, we have something not broken, why fix it, fix the parts that aren't working well.

Trading up to get a player means were going to have a bust? Trading down and gathering a bunch of prospects is what Herm said he wanted to do a month or two ago. I didn't saying that was the best thing to do,but thats what he wanted/wants to do.

Adrian Peterson is 6'2 230........he's faster than LJ is but he runs sorta upright and is a big power back, he's very similiar. Little faster, little more naturally gifted but similiar none the less.

I think that Harrell very well could be the BPA available at 23, in spite of his inury history, and not as the result of the otherwise lack of depth and talent at the DT position.

He's a guy with talent and heart.

He, like Peterson, is someone I would take the risk with, because his injuries aren't the nagging type that red flag a player's desire.

They are the result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Levi Brown is the only Tackle worth moving for and guess what he's gonna go between 10-15 more likely......that kinda move would require more than a team with our holes should be willing to give.

I read the summary on him, he was out when MU played them and I didn't see him play. I didn't realize they were that similar, better hands, but still you take him, trade LJ and then he busts, man that's risky....

LJ is proving himself rather well, and not complaining about a big contract, I like him and don't think he's gonna burn out quick from the high load last year.

How often do 5th,6th,7th round players pan out? I would rather have 2 solding players than a alot of prospects.

Mecca's right.

Peterson fits into Herman ****ing Edwards' offense perfectly, and he would give us options with regards to LJ.

Also, there's no way I'd pass up either LB or S if they are the BPA.

Donnie Edwards and N Harris are stopgap measures, IMO, and we need to look to the future, as well as the present.

And the reality is, at safety, both young guys are unproven, and we lack depth there anyway.

Moving from 23-13 as an example would cost us probably a 2 and a 4.....so saying 5th,6th,7th isn't right it would take atleast one of our day 1 picks and likely a day 2 also.

all in all, good conversations. I understand the reasoning behind BPA, but I'm a balance type guy and think there are still some limits, I would like to get a good talented guy that helps us this year not in the next couple of years, with our first round pick.

I will say this, I'm ready for the draft, I want to see how this all unflolds, should be fun.

I will also say, no matter who we pick; what's the over/under that Logical hates the pick?

Don't worry I'm great on draft day if I don't like the pick I'll swear constantly and throw things at the TV.

I think a WR would start for us from day 1 and be atleast as productive as what we had there last year and that being in his developmental 1st year.

I would do it in a heartbeat. Get a Levi Brown. Get a good prospect at CB in the third. And maybe get some good speical team players in the late rounds.

I agree.
There should be a balance.

However, if there's a guy at a position of strength sitting there that's clearly head and shoulders above the rest of the available players, then you simply can't pass that pick up in favor of another position.

You basically want a 1 player draft.........

I like the idea of a WR.....







just not Ginn..... :p

It's what you like, Ginn has the ability to seperate and make big plays and help you on special teams......Jarrett is likely not going to be able to stretch the field and doesn't play special teams.

I'm glad you aren't the GM.

We have far too many holes to fill to be concerning ourselves with targeting one player, or one position, to simply throw away draft picks to get that player or fill that position..

He's overvalueing the idea of 1 player in football, this isn't the NBA here.

we could pro/con each other to death. Ginn is speedy but has trouble with press coverage and not a good blocker. He does have some special team prospect I just think we have this WR already, Webb. He did good returning last year, he's fast and can do everything you want Ginn for.

I like Bowe over Jarrett, point blank. but both of them are bigger possession recievers that can run block, these we need, the only one we have like this is Gardner, mmmmm. Kennison is a great blocker and still pretty fast. Having Bowe on the other side instead of Parker, sounds good. throw in Web as a Dante's replacement = even better.

I'm sorry Jeff Webb as a returner will put us in the bottom 3rd of the league in return yards......for anything you can say about Ginn he is an electrifying special teams player.

I think people need to realize Jeff Webb dropped in the draft because he may have run a 4.4 but no one believed he played at 4.4. He's a backup WR that plays special teams, not as the returner mind you. This idea that he's gonna be this productive WR and special teams returner you'd think he was a 1st or 2nd round pick.

I don't like Ginn because he dropped a number of easily catchable passes in the games I watched.

But I sure as hell am not ready to rely on a project like Webb.

We hear that every year.


Just you wait, Wilkerson would have been a 1st round pick if he stayed in school one more year - he'll be great with a little playing time under his belt. Thorpe has great speed, you can't teach that, just wait until he gets the system under his belt for one year.

Was 2005 a great draft year? You got two full time starters that first year - DJ and Colquitt and a special teams player in Grigsby.

When you are doing your own mock draft for KC this year do you say to yourself, "Boy, I hope the guys from rounds 2-7 put in 3 starts between them and get some special teams play. That would be a great draft!"