Give me a team that wins with a injury prone QB that consistently misses games...

You are so sure about this. Just like you are so sure Ryan is a can't miss QB. But what shoots your theory out of the water is that I for one was pretty high on Croyle during his pre-draft days. So were many others on this bb. Just because you hadn't heard of him doesn't mean the rest of us hadn't either. Mecca does not know Japanese. So, Japan does not exist.

Would Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

Would he have been a 1st round pick as a sophomore? What is the relevance of that? He's a stud now.

Let me rephrase my point:

Would this year's Matt Ryan have gone in the first round two years ago?

haha....We've had this discussion before.

McNabb, the Eages.




But im with you, I like Ryan and i hope the Chiefs draft him. The NFL is a QB driven league.

Yes, he would have.

Here is a clip where Jaworski analyzes his game and compares him to Carson Palmer. After that, Kiper compares him to Eli Manning, and says he will have the exact same grade as Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger. Mike Mayock compares him to Roethlisberger

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/...o-carson-palm/

If one person hypes him, maybe it's just an isolated man-crush. But when every legit NFL Draft analyst loves him as pro QB, it's a trend.

These guys make a living analyzing NFL prospects, and when they all unanimously agree that a guy is special, maybe the haters should suck it up and admit that maybe they don't know what they're talking about on this one.

I think Ryan compares very well to Eli Manning actually......and there would have been 0 debate on if the Chiefs should take him or not.

I really don't like arguing with Frankie just because I think he'd trade down and draft 7 offensive lineman if he was a GM, that's how he reads to me with some of those ridiculous views he spouts.

Well the way it played out, there were only 3 teams that took a QB in that draft.

Young, Leinart & Cutler. I suspect coming off of their success in college, he wouldn't of gone ahead of Young or Leinart. But what does that prove?

But Cutler? Who knows. I'm not a scout.

I personally find it hard to believe a QB who's going to go in the top 8 picks this year wouldn't of been drafted at all in the 1st round comparison to that class.

All you can base these guys on right now is their college stats. Ryan is not going to be any more than an average at best QB.

It's an argument used here...I don't think you'll see it anywhere else.

Don't mind Frankie he'd take Jeff Otah over Matt Ryan though to show you where he's at.

And if anyone comes in here and tells me that Young is/was a better prospect than Ryan I am going to laugh so hard.

Coming from the guy who somehow thinks Dan Connor is a better cover back than Rivers it means alot to me...

And hey even if he's NFL average that'll be an upgrade from the guy we got now who'll spend alot of weeks on the sideline in his cast/boot/sling and whatever else you can think of.

That's incorrect. You can watch the tape. If all you can go off of right now is their college stats, we'd be talking about possibly taking Colt Brennan with our 1st pick instead. But we're not. Why? Because he doesn't project as well to be a pro quarterback.

I'll take that challenge.....

You see, you are assuming that Ryan won't bomb, or get hurt. What can you show anyone that you can point to as an absolute that Ryan will be someone's QBOTF? Right now it is conjecture and just that. Could he be and does he have the skill set...yes....but that doesn't always equate to an absolute. (There are many examples of can't-miss QB's that have not panned out) So, until Ryan makes a roster and starts a game you are making assumptions.

As for Vince Young, he has started games in the NFL...plus he has a few other credentials that at least give him the nod over Ryan.

But let's have this conversation in a couple of years...by then you can make that comparison.

mmaddog
*******

You could say the same thing about any QB before hes drafted. They all have questions marks. Nobody knows, its all a gamble.


All i know is, ill trust the experts before i trust anyone on Chiefsplanet. The experts say hes a top 5 pick.

I don't disagree...I am just trying to point out that, while Ryan is the best QB in the draft, he may not pan out either. And trying to say that he is better than Vince Young at this time is a bit premature.

mmaddog
*******

I just wish people would make up their mind on what they want as a QB, I watch people rip on Russell who is the all the physical tools in the world you could want a guy to have prospect, and now I watch people rip on Ryan who is the all intangibles very good physical skills guy.....

Well um which kinda QB do you want because you aren't gonna get both that comes along once in what 40 years?

Also I seem to recall everyone wanting the Chiefs to pick Quinn as he was falling....now here we are the QB situation is no better, all that we know is Croyle confirmed he still gets injured and now no one wants a QB?

Ryan is a better prospect than Quinn in my book.

As far as I can tell, he wont be worthy of being the "Mighty KC Chiefs QBoTF" unless hes the 2nd coming of John Elway, Troy Aikman, Joe Montana and Dan Marino all rolled into one. :)

This is because opinions vary widely, especially on QBs. THere were plenty of people who were in love with Ryan Leaf over Manning, but you can't seem to find any of them around these days.

We're to this point now of people looking for excuses to not take Matt Ryan, if anyone thinks other players are better or whatever fine just say that. But please don't try to bullshit me or anyone else into believing that Croyle and Ryan are remotely the same kind of prospects.

I still believe it's that fear, to be great you have to take risks, many people aren't willing to do that they'd rather get back to what we've always been than risk being awful for several years to win it all.

It's that safe mentality.

At the time, Manning was the "safer" pick because he was already NFL ready.

Leaf had more upside because he had the cannon for an arm. BTW, Leaf probably had the strongest arm ive ever seen in the NFL. I remember him throwing some tight spirals 50 yards downfield at Arrowhead in a rainstorm. Too bad it wasnt accurate. :)

Which is why im willing to bet good money Carl is praying every night Atlanta snags Ryan so he wont be forced to make the decision.

Yea sounds like that Matt Ryan guy doesn't it?

You gotta hate GM's like that and fans like that even more, what ever happened to having some god damn sack and making the decisions to win it all? Hell I'm fine with my team being awful as long as I think their decisions are geared toward winning it all and some of them didn't work out. I like that more than the "we're gonna be safe so we never bottom out yet we never really win either"

WTF?

Maybe it wasn't you and it was the other guy, sometimes you guys with the names that start with P's run together.

ROFL

Well they both say things I find odd all the time so it happens, whichever one is the huge penn state guy, you'd think Connor was the second coming.

I am not a Penn St guy.

Alright it's not you it's the other guy. Sorry about that.

I still don
t think Ryan is worth top 5 pick. ;)

If Dorsey is there-He will be the pick.

You are right. I consider both of them mid-1st rounders. If we traded down to about 16 then if both are available there's a decision to be made. I'd still lean towards the needed LT over the un-needed QB.

Ehh, I didn't. There you go again presenting assumptions as fact.

If you'd really take Jeff Otah ahead of Matt Ryan seek help immediately.

What's wrong with that? We are picking in the top 5. The kind of QBOTF Ryan represents we already have on the roster. Neither Croyle nor Ryan is a cinch. But we cannot afford to waste a top 5 pick on an INT-tossing maybe while we have gaping holes in other positions (especially O-line).

I actually think they are trying to sucker the Ravens into a trade.

People who really believe Croyle and Ryan are the same thing is basically feeding themselves a line of bullshit.

If you don't want Matt Ryan fine, but for the love of God DO NOT make the argument that he is no better or not a better prospect than Croyle. It is an extremely asinine argument that you can only post here because if you did in a group of regular NFL fans or anyone with solid knowledge you'd be laughed out of the room for that kind of comment.

Whatever.

I think it would be a mistake for KC to select QB Matt Ryan with the their top pick. I can't see a GM paying a non QB top guaranteed money -- unless the organizaton believes Matt Ryan is Peyton Manning material. I think the Chiefs will invest their top pick in an offensive lineman. One player will not win a championship.

It will be interesting to see which way Parcells goes. I don't believe he is interested in any of the top picks. I believe he is interested in creating interest so he can trade out of the first pick. Do you believe Jake Long or Chris Long is worth $40 million? I don't know. Michigan has an excellent reputation for turning out offensive players -- maybe Jake is worth the money. Parcells historically picks up defensive and offensive players later on. He can always take a QB in the second round.

I believe Parcells wants to do more with the first pick. It would not surprise me to see him expire the clock and slide down to the player he wants and save some money if he can't strike a deal with another team. J/M/O

What if nobody wants to pick? 1st,2nd,3rd,4th, Damn IT, Carl!!:banghead:, He picks the Keller kid from Purdue? A TE!?!? With the effective 1st overall pick!?!?


That is all.:)










Just preparing every/any one..

Do you remember Quinn was sitting at the green-room table not being picked last year? I felt so sorry for him. I wanted to jump through the TV and give him a hug. aww.

This old argument again!!? Well im sorry to say to all the matt ryan fans out there, that when we pick there WILL be better players to choose from. Ellis, dorsey or long Should be there and you do NOT pass on players like that. If the Chiefs pass on one of those guys for a much lesser player such as Ryan, well thats whats wrong with this franchise.

Oh and ill go on record saying Henne will be the best of the bunch...

Erik Ainge with either of our fifths.

In all fairness though, the guy was considered a Top 5-10 pick. Falling to 23 and picking him would have been tremendous value.

If we were picking in the 20's again and Ryan fell like Quinn did, I'd be all over it.

I still haven't seen any of the Brohm and Woodson fans (except Mecca) tell me why they would be a good pick.

mmaddog
*******

Because Brohm threw for eleventy-billion yards against inferior competition, don't you watch CFB?

:D

This is just my opinion. If Ryan is there at #5 you take him and don't look back. If he is not there, I am not even sure I would draft a QB this year. We already have a third round pick and a late round pick from the past two years drafts. No sense in throwing another one in the mix just yet.

Ryan at 5 if he is there... or none at all. Fix the rest of the spots as much as possible.

I saw wayyyyyyy to much of both players this year.

:D

mmaddog
*******

Chad Henne in the 3rd or later brought in for competition and possibly taking over would be the only QB move I'd like to see this year.

Between him and Brodie one of them will likely wrap up the QB problem for the next couple years.

Just way too many needs to take one earlier imho.

The fact that this team has so many needs is one of the worst aguments for drafting to fill a need I can think of.

There aren't any positions on this team that can't be upgraded, including QB.

Draft the BPA, cause almost any player we look at in any round will certainly be a player that fills a position of need.

With all due respect, I believe you don't just draft players, they have to fit into a team's pressing needs. Instead of risking that a certain player would be available later on - select him on the spot.

The Jets agreed to a contract extension with their safety this week -- a reported five years, over $30 MM, and that plays into their draft strategy.

Here's an interested article published by the Plain Dealer on QB Anderson and Brady Quinn.

(Tony Grossi, Plain Dealer beat reporter for the Cleveland Browns)

Plain Dealer Newspaper
Browns' QB status no controversy to opponents
by [email protected] April 02, 2008

Palm Beach, Fla. -- In Cleveland, the debate between Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn no doubt will burn hot for another year at least.
But coaches and personnel experts interviewed this week at NFL league meetings were unanimous in saying the Browns have done the right thing with their quarterbacks.

"Obviously, the bold move they made a year ago paid off for them," Cincinnati coach Marvin Lewis said.

"I'm talking about putting Anderson in and trading Charlie [Frye] and moving on. I think with the other 52 guys -- or 51, because I don't know that Brady's fine with it -- they know who their quarterback is. That's a huge step for a football team. You have to make that step to win."

Nobody here expressed the opinion that signing Anderson to a three-year deal after trading a No. 1 to select Quinn the year before automatically creates a quarterback controversy.

"The controversy would come if they didn't keep Derek," said Pat Kirwan, a former Jets assistant coach and front office employee now with NFL.com.

"Those receivers were going to go crazy. [Kellen] Winslow and [Braylon] Edwards, they're making the Pro Bowl right now with Derek Anderson delivering the mail. They don't want to go backwards. They know that guy gets the ball to them, and they have an open attack. Why would they take a risk to switch out?"

Not even Phil Savage can say, however, how long Anderson's reign as the starting quarterback will continue.

"Derek, he's a little bit more of an unknown," the Browns' general manager said. "He just kind of came from the hinterlands and all of a sudden ends up in Hawaii [in the Pro Bowl]. Now we'll see if he can build off that. It was worth the investment for us to see if he can go further with what he did last year."

And if he doesn't?

"That contract does not lock Derek down," Kirwan said. "Here's what Phil said to me a hundred times: 'I made sure that we are good for 2008. Then we'll figure it out.' And I don't think that means you trade Brady Quinn if he's great. If [Anderson's] great, you're going to play out the three-year deal. If he's not great, they move Derek and give the kid a chance.

"If he has three games at the beginning like the Cincinnati game [in December] ..."

So far, Quinn is the victim of bad timing.

He slipped down the draft board a year ago because Miami passed on him at No.¤9, and then came a long run of teams uninterested in drafting a quarterback first. He had a contract dispute in training camp, partly as a result of the Browns wanting to sort out the Frye vs. Anderson debacle. Then Anderson buried him on the bench with a totally unanticipated breakout year.

If Quinn were coming out of Notre Dame this year, experts here said, he would be considered with Boston College's Matt Ryan as the draft's top quarterback.

"That would be a tough debate," Minnesota coach Brad Childress said. "Apples and oranges. Either one could be the top one taken."

"I think they're real close," Kirwan said. "I think this year, unlike last year, more teams need a quarterback in the top¤10. I don't think either one would go to Atlanta at No.¤3. The first interest might be Kansas City at 5. And then the one not taken would probably go to Baltimore at No.¤8."

This year's No.¤8 overall pick will exceed the $15.4 million in guaranteed money given the 2007 selection, Jamaal Anderson of Atlanta. Quinn got about $7.8 million in guarantees. So, factors totally out of Quinn's hands have been costly to him.

But Savage and coach Romeo Crennel insist that Quinn can and will handle the situation.

"His state of mind is that he's got good enough ability to be the starting quarterback for the Browns and that's what he's going to try to be," Crennel said. "He understands there's a competition and there's a guy ahead of him, but that doesn't diminish his confidence in himself or diminish his ability at all."

Gruden never met a quarterback he didn't like, but he seems particularly impressed with Quinn.

"It seems like a heckuva trade to me, to get him 22nd [last year]," he said. "Who knows what'll happen? Derek's a heckuva story. Whether it works in Brady's favor in Cleveland or not, they have two really good young quarterbacks and that's a lot more than some of us can say.

"That's an exciting team, man, to have those two guys. This is a quarterback-driven league."


(*speculation on Kansas City part) -- I hate speculation -- welcome to the world of sports writing.

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/200...vers.html#more

That's exactly my sentiment.