Whatever
 

It's so common that they got slapped for it already but nobody else has? I don't see anyone coming to their aid with that bullshit of "everyone does it" either. It's not legal pure and simple and I don't think everyone is doing it.

Belicheat is suppose to be a genius football coach but he needs a guy to illegaly tape signals with a Sony Handycam on the sideline? What a douche.

I hope they get hit hard for the AFC Championship game. They may have cost the Steelers millions in SB revenues. Id' be wanting some serious ass over this shit if I'm the owner of Pitt.

*sigh*

Try reading the article. Try understanding that the Pats already admitted all thsi, that the NFL already knows it, and that there will be no further punishment. Try understanding that lots of people in the NFL "cheat" in lots of different ways, and that the NFL came in recently ('06 or whatever) and said "hey, stop it, we're serious", and the Patriots, presumably unlike everyone else and quite stupidly, didn't.

Did you read JJ's quote, even. Your beloved Chiefs used to do EXACTLY the same thing.

How so? What rule did we break? You don't know because we did not break a written rule.

The salary cap is all unwritten? And I have no doubt that the NFL has a written "bad sportsmanship" catchall that rightly encompasses things like spraying yourself with pam or whatever the frack your boys did.

Let's wait until next week. ....:thumb:

Meanwhile, Amnorix thinks its very unfortunate that Senator Spector thinks is a federal matter, or that it is deserving of his time as opposed to, you know, things of national importance. I'm sure the fact that he is an Iggles fan and that the Pats beat them in the SB has nothing to do with his continuing involvement.

i used to like the Patriots as my 2nd favorite team... I have a Bledsoe Jersey, even. But, **** Belicheat and the Patriots. They are ****ing cheaters and have scarred the NFL with their weak ass need to **** other teams over to get an unfair advantage.

Belicheat should be forced to resign... so teh Chiefs can sign him.

You have my full agreement there. Get that shit out of courts. Along with baseball's steroids.

We did not cheat the salary cap nor did we break a written rule. We made cash loans from players and paid them interest on the loans. It actually had nothing to do with the NFL. We used the money to pay for upfront costs on our new stadium. We didn't video tape the other team to make in game adjustments and cheat on the field.

You mean like fraud? I agree that the local authorites should arrest Bellichek, but I have no problems with the committee investing the Patriots crimes since the local authorites have decided to ignore their duty.

If that is the case on the bolded part.. You guys got off Scots free with only losing one 1st round pick and a fine.. Goodell did bail you out.. Every member of the staff should have been fired and banned from football, and the owner hit with a couple 100million dollar fines and prohibited from winning your division and playoffs for a couple years..

The Broncos are innocent, I tell you! INNOCENT!

http://uranus.ckt.net/%7Egochiefs/cheatingdonks3.gif

http://uranus.ckt.net/%7Egochiefs/cheatingdonks4.gif

And the pressure is on --- LMAO They don't give a eff ... They'll take you right down... ROFL

The New York Times

Sports of The Times

A Decade of Sins Deserves a Year Out
By HARVEY ARATON
Published: May 9, 2008

What an extensive video library Bill Belichick turns out to have produced. Eight more spy tapes sent to N.F.L. headquarters for Commissioner Roger Goodell’s viewing pleasure by a former student in the New England Patriots’ film noir studies program. Who knows how many more taped over or discarded over the last eight years?

Imagine the documentary possibilities for those talented folks at NFL Films, provided Goodell hasn’t already tossed the evidence into the fireplace with Tom Brady-like precision in a reprise of his mysterious spin cycle last fall.

Now that the “totality of conduct” for which Belichick was cited by Goodell has officially expanded to the length of his tenure in New England, shouldn’t he be further punished as a serial offender, a con man who not only broke the rules but established secretly taping opponents as standard operating procedure?

“If your wife cheats on you once, maybe you can forgive her, but if she cheats on you over the course of your entire marriage, that becomes unforgivable because she has flouted the rules, shown no respect for your marital contract,” said Sharon K. Stoll, director of the Center for Ethics at the University of Idaho and the author of “Sports Ethics: Applications for Fair Play.”

“That is apparently what happened in this case, a disregard for the organization and its rules and it’s a big mess that the N.F.L. has on its hands because this coach happens to be an American icon, a man who has had a book written about him by David Halberstam,” Stoll said. “The league has to stand up and make a strong statement because the last impression it wants to leave is that this particular coach was above those rules.”

Let me digress before explaining why I believe Belichick should now be barred from coaching the Patriots for one season, on top of the $750,000 in fines and the forfeiture of a first-round draft pick levied on him and the Patriots by Goodell last fall. (The money was the equivalent of a parking ticket and the draft pick not all that punitive in a year when the Patriots also had the 10th pick, from New Orleans.)

In another context, I would gladly concede that my proposed punishment falls well short of fitting the crime. Espionage in a sport played and promoted as recreational warfare would seem to be a natural extension of the competition. Defending one’s team against it would require nothing more complicated than what a third-base coach does, disguise his signals, in full view of an entire ballpark six or seven times a week.

But these are the rules set forth by the N.F.L., enforced by Goodell and reportedly reinforced in a league memo sent to the teams in 2006. To which Belichick at the very least responded by videotaping the Jets in the 2007 season opener that touched off the so-called Spygate affair, now encapsulated in its own online entry of the same name on Wikipedia.org.

In other words: embarrassment to the league in perpetuity, courtesy of its team of the decade and reigning coaching genius.

As rumors of additional tapes circulated before the Giants crushed the Patriots’ dream of a perfect season in Phoenix in February, including one of a filming of a St. Louis Rams pre-Super Bowl practice in 2002, Goodell made a point of saying, “It was not something that was done on a widespread basis.” Already you get the idea he wants everyone, especially the crusading Senator Arlen Specter, to believe there is nothing in the newly submitted tapes that Belichick hasn’t already detailed, as if all of this was already on the table for public inspection.

The good news for Goodell is that the Patriots’ former video coordinator Matt Walsh apparently did not have the aforementioned tape that would have tainted at least one of the three Super Bowls claimed by Belichick’s Pats. But the real news here is, again, the establishment of Belichick’s cheating then (2000 to 2002), now (last season) and if we may extrapolate based on reasonable cause, in all likelihood in between.

His explanation, his word, on this matter means as much as Roger Clemens’s on family values. “There obviously has been some lying going on — ‘oh, we did it once; we misinterpreted the rules, we didn’t mean to,’ ” said Stoll, the ethicist. As a liar and a cheater, what separates Belichick on the grand behavioral plane from your basic synthetic warrior who gets suspended four games when he produces a dirty test?

Augmented by logic, the facts suggest Belichick has been cheating for almost a decade. And since replacing Paul Tagliabue, Goodell has fashioned himself the zero-tolerance commissioner, cracking down hard on those — players, that is — who would compromise the runaway popularity of the league with antisocial acts. Shouldn’t that policy be applied even more stringently to those in control?

“They need to send a message here,” Stoll said.

One year out. Then let’s see Belichick dare spy again in 2009.

I can't believe they didn't get so much as an un-sportsman like conduct penalty out of that.

Complete bullshit.

Oh... so the NFL slapped you down for no reason whatsoever. Kinda like they're slapping down Belicheat. Maybe we should all then just take the asterisks off of the Bronco & Belicheat SuperBowls...

Okay.

Uh, were they there?

Neither did the Patriots.

You don't even know what the Patriots did, so perhaps you should save spouting off for something you do know about instead of your wild and incorrect guesses.

I understand your hatred and jealousy. Let it all out.

has there ever been such a thin skinned fan of a successful team?

hilarious....

I only argue when people have the facts wrong. Forgive me for trying to set them straight.

At least I don't argue that they did nothing wrong. That's the Donx fans.

The Pats get caught and now everyone is a cheat. Whatever! Belicheat has been doing this for 8 years. He should be punished for 8 years worth not just a few games. Anyone that thinks he didn't video tape every year is just being stupid. The genius label can be officialliy removed. Genius's don't need Sony Handycams to win football games.

I explained why they fined us. But it didn't result to an on field advantage. Further more it was so Pat Bowlen could get his new stadium up and running. What we have here is a coach deliberately cheating opponents. That's why God saw fit to let these guys win 18 games in-a-row only to lose the one that mattered most.

Yes we do know what they did, clown. So take your "elite" cheating team and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. LMAO

18-1 without video.

:shrug: I'm havign more fun on Sundays in the fall, and I"m perfectly happy with my Dynasty team. I know you don't like hearing how Brady is better than Elway, but he certainly has done more with less than HorseFace ever did.

Now that you've gotten that out of your system. There is no way that Tom Brady is a better QB than John Elway was. Don't insult yourself. Don't get me wrong, Tom Brady is good. I feel confident that his success has nothing to do with reviewing video tape of defense signals. He is however not the athlete on the field that John Elway was.

And Tom Brady has always had as much or more than John Elway ever did from a talent perspective. I doubt you followed the Broncos enough in the 80's to actually know what you are talking about.

On this point, Garcia, we agree. Elway did more year after year with less talent than any QB in history. Elway was the best QB I've seen play the game.

I think he was the greatest athlete to play the position. He is certainly in the discussion about the greatest ever. To me that includes Sammie Baugh, John U, Otto Graham, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, and Tom Brady as well.

I think the only guy around now that could surpass Elway in the athlete discussion is JaMarcus Russell.

Agreed cussed him hated the team he played for but he is the best I have seen also

I hope you are right but there is a world of difference between what might be and what is. The kid has a long way to go.

True RNR, but he's got the physical tools to be a man amongst boys. Cutler has a super strong arm and Russell's is stronger.

How many HOF'ers has Brady had on his teams? Heck, how many All Pros/Pro Bowlers?

And "athlete" isn't all that important, is it? We're talking about QBs, not decathletes. Michael Vick was the best damn athlete in the NFL probably, certainly among QBs, but that didn't mean he won games.

To this point John Elway played with zero HOFer's. Zimmerman goes in this year. We aren't even far enough along to see who will be in the HOF with Brady. You've got no point there. As far as the Pro Bowler aspect, that's a popularity contest. Like your left tackle, he made it to the pro bowl this season. He was the most popular LT in the Super Bowl this season too. They were calling his name out all night.

And "athletic" is very important, but you would be right that's it's not the only thing. There is the mental aspect to being successful. John Elway had both.

To compare Vick to Elway is just silly, Brady is on the list of those talked about in terms of alltime greats and he is far from done. That said I have seen many of those on the list play and Elway stands out as the best to me. The Patriots have had a heck of a run and IMO with Elway behind center they would be even better.

Hey, do you mind? I'm trying to dial him up and you keep interrupting. :D :p

My bad :)

FYP... /Donkey Fan

I think Amnorix should be promoted to senior public relations spokesperson for the Patriots. he should also legally represent Bellichick in all of these video taping matters. the spin he's putting on is fantastic!

When the new season starts, we'll probably find Belichick* in the janitors room washing the mops.

How is it Walsh turned over 8 tapes, and the Patriots handed over 7? Surely NE has a bigger library than Walsh. --no?

ESPN.com
One tape turned over by Walsh shows Patriots also stole offensive signals
By Mike Fish
Updated: May 9, 2008

From Day 1 of the Spygate saga in September, the controversy over New England's illicit videotaping practices has centered on the Patriots' efforts to steal their opponents' defensive signals. But the tapes delivered via FedEx to NFL headquarters in New York on Thursday morning also include evidence of an effort by New England to steal offensive signals, which would broaden the extent of the team's surveillance operation.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and staff members began viewing the eight tapes within hours of their long-awaited delivery, in anticipation of Tuesday's scheduled interview with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh. As part of an indemnification pact reached last month with the league, Walsh agreed to turn over any videotapes or related materials he had from his tenure with the team.

Perhaps the surprise entry on the list of videotaping documents Walsh turned over to the league was tape No. 3, labeled "OFF Signals" from New England's game against the Miami Dolphins on Oct. 7, 2001. That is the only tape labeled as such on a copy of the list obtained by ESPN.com. Walsh's attorney, Michael Levy, confirmed it was the lone footage in Walsh's possession of offensive coaches' signaling from the sidelines.

"[It] contains shots of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players, followed by a shot from the end zone camera of Miami's offensive play, followed by a shot of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players for the next play, then edited to be followed by a shot of the subsequent Miami offensive play," Levy said of the tape. "And that pattern repeats throughout the entire tape, with occasional cuts to the scoreboard."

Harvey Greene, a spokesman for the Dolphins said: "All the people who were here then are gone. We have nothing to gain by saying anything. Bill Parcells, Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano weren't around when that happened."

Goodell has made repeated references to the stealing of defensive signals by New England. That is, in part, presumably because the league has allowed direct radio communication from a coach to the quarterback since the 1994 season, diminishing the need for hand signals.

"We don't know [about attempts to steal offensive signals] yet because we haven't looked at the tapes," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Thursday before the league had completed its review of the new evidence. "All we have is the list supplied last night [by Walsh's attorney]. One of them is labeled 'OFF signals.' None of the others are listed that way. Let us look at the tapes and we'll have more to say about that.

"The rule which the Patriots violated was the policy that prohibits use of equipment for the taping of offensive or defense signals. I know there've been references to defensive signals, which is more logical. But let us look at the tapes and verify what is on there."

Although Walsh turned over eight tapes this week, the number of games in which he personally videotaped opposing coaches is unclear. One source told ESPN.com that it "absolutely" is not the case that the six games on the eight tapes are the only instances the Patriots taped opponents during Walsh's tenure with the team.

One of the eight tapes in the package was shot by someone other than Walsh. It is a Sept. 29, 2002, game against San Diego, which was shot after Walsh was promoted from the video department. That tape captures just the coaches on the sideline, and the scoreboard before the game action is edited in.

The Patriots declined the opportunity to comment on Thursday. Stacey James, the Patriots' vice president for media relations, said Wednesday he expected the team will wait to issue a statement until after Walsh meets with Goodell.

The advancing sophistication in New England's videotaping practices apparently is also evident on the tapes, which begin with a Sept. 25, 2000, game against Miami and run through that 2002 game against San Diego. It's also obvious throughout that the video shooter has one job on game day: to capture the opposing team's sideline coaches.

In one of the last tapes that Walsh shot -- the 2002 AFC Championship Game against the Pittsburgh Steelers -- the finished product includes sideline footage of the Pittsburgh coaches sending in signals, followed by a scan of the scoreboard that captures down, distance and game time, followed by two separate shots of the ensuing play, one from above the press box and the other from an end zone camera.

"The other seven tapes show the final product, which is a series of coaches' signals, followed by the play, followed by coaches' signals and then the next play -- all lined up one after another," said Levy, who represents Walsh. "So the final videotapes contain the opposing coaches' signals lined up directly with the play that was run, one after another."

Goodell is likely to quiz Walsh on these issues at their meeting scheduled for 7:30 a.m. Tuesday. Walsh is scheduled to travel to Washington later in the day to meet with Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee.


Specter has been critical of the NFL for destroying evidence turned over in September by New England, including six other tapes and notes from other taped games. Although those tapes only date back to the 2006 season, Aiello, the NFL spokesperson, said Thursday the notes dated to at least the 2002 season.

The notes were destroyed, and Aiello said he is uncertain whether there is any record of the games involved. He did say that Goodell previously informed Specter that details on the taping of the 2002 AFC Championship game, as well as three other games with Pittsburgh, were part of the notes.

Aiello said it has yet to be decided whether the Walsh tapes will be made public. But as the tapes arrived at the league office in New York, officials were relieved to find the package didn't include a long-rumored video of the St. Louis Rams' walk-through practice the day before the 2002 Super Bowl, which would have put a huge cloud over the league's marquee event.

"That is a fair assumption," Aiello said of the feelings of relief in the league office. "I'd rather leave those questions and answers to the commissioner, but it's unfortunate that that had been reported, and apparently there's no substance to it."

Quarterback Drew Bledsoe, who was on the Patriots team that beat the Rams in the Super Bowl, told the Boston Herald he's followed SpyGate in the media.

"To be honest with you, my take now is the same as it's always been," Bledsoe told the newspaper. "Every team in the league is trying to do everything they can to get ahead. I'm sure most, if not all, are bending the rules in some way, shape or form. This just happened to be one that was very public, and the organization has been reprimanded for it.

"As a player here, I never did see anything other than what was already reported. Was it a violation of the spirit of the rules? Absolutely, it was, but I think all of that has been readily acknowledged."



Specter Seeks Cooperation
Sen. Arlen Specter warned the NFL not to rush to judgment Thursday, suggesting the league is premature in trying to put the Spygate saga to rest.
Specter, R-Pa., spoke as commissioner Roger Goodell and top league officials prepared to view videotapes turned over by former New England Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh. Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has been critical of the investigation the league conducted into the Patriots' illicit taping practices.
"I think it is very unfortunate that the NFL has already started its 'nothing new' spin before watching the tapes or finding out what Matt Walsh has to say," Specter said. "Let's see where the evidence leads."
Walsh, employed by the Patriots from 1997 to 2003, is scheduled to meet with league officials Tuesday in New York. After that session, he is to travel to Washington and sit down with Specter and his staff.
Specter formally requested the league make available to him the evidence turned over by Walsh, which consists of eight tapes dating from 2000 through 2003. But as of Thursday night he had not gotten confirmation on when, or even if, he'd get the tapes.
"As a matter of basic fair play, I got to have the time to prepare," said Specter. "It's equal access … I'm waiting for them."
Goodell, however, suggested in a letter last Friday that Specter would eventually gain access to the tapes, saying: "Once I see the material I will be in a better position to respond … [I'm] confident we'll be able to make satisfactory arrangements for you or key staff to review the material."
Specter has complained about the lack of cooperation from the NFL as his staff has attempted to delve into the matter. Very few key individuals have spoken when approached by staff members. And attorneys for the Patriots and New York Jets have advised team employees against speaking with Specter.
"I got three pages of people who refused to talk to me,'' he said.

-- Mike Fish, investigative reporter

I would argue that Randall Cunningham, Donavan McNabb, Michael Vick, and even Bobby Douglass are/were more athletic.

What Elway did better than anyone was combine his athletic ability with his ability to make plays in the passing game, with only Steve Young and Fran Tarkenton as real contenders.

To ensure against the proverbial "trap game"... after all, we kicked their ass in week 1 of 2003 (31-0) - only to lose with the same score in week 16.

Then the fish beat them 21-0......

So why tape the two teams vying for the bottom of the division? 4 wins

I still believe that K.C. Chiefs will head into "Asterick Nation" to play Don Capers Patriots*. I believe when Goodell faces the press Tuesday, he'll say, that they knew all along the Patriots were stealing offensive as well as defensive signals. I/M/H/O, he should think that over carefully.

Goodell is on record for saying, the tapes had no value. Then why were they doing it? More importantly, if they had no value , why did the video equipment become more sophisicated in the last seven years before the were caught? What's interesting here, who was behind the camera taping after Walsh left? More to the point, the commissioner destroyed all the tapes and notes back in Sept. The New York Times was able to obtain a copy of the rule changes. I'll leave the link below. If you remember, it was someone from Goodell's office that leaked the tape to the press.

The NY Times and ESPN made the correct news judgment --assigning investigative reporters to this story months ago. The media will not let this go away. In my humble opinion, it seems Goodell is their main focus.

~SIGH...Done with my rant now~ ;)

I'll post the Times newsworthy article in the next post --

The New York Times has obtained a copy of the confidential NFL Rulebook.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...0nfl.190.1.jpg

The story: Interesting. ....

In Cat and Mouse Game, Patriots Are Central Players
By GREG BISHOP and MICHAEL BRICK
Published: May 11, 2008

Long since the days of leather helmets and the V-formation, the N.F.L. has embraced technological advances that have brought dizzying changes to coaching strategy in the past decade.

With the advances have come new temptations for coaches to gain an unfair advantage. Every Monday during the football season, the league says, it fields complaints from and about many teams.

If a persistent problem is identified, the league’s eight-member competition committee suggests changes to rules. In discussions of changes since 2000, one team, the New England Patriots, has surfaced more than any other, according to a longtime N.F.L. team executive with direct knowledge of the meetings.

The committee heard accusations that the Patriots had taped opposing coaches’ signals, placed microphones on defensive players to steal quarterbacks’ audible signals and manipulated clocks and coach-to-quarterback radio systems.

The league has handled the complaints internally, finding no proof for all but one, which was lodged by the Jets last year, said its chief spokesman, Greg Aiello. In the Jets case last fall, when the Patriots were caught using video cameras to film defensive signals, the team and its coach, Bill Belichick, were fined, and the team forfeited a first-round draft pick. Since then, a former team employee has sent the league videotapes containing evidence of similar spying dating to 2000.

A spokesman for the Patriots, Stacey James, said the accusations were without merit, except for a videotaping violation to which the team has admitted.

In an e-mail message responding to questions posed by The New York Times, James said, “We believe that this inquiry is patently biased and that a truly objective report would investigate all instances of these complaints, not exclusively those against the Patriots.”

Even when suspicions and accusations have not resulted in disciplinary action, an internal committee has responded to them during the updating of the league’s confidential rulebook, known as the game operations manual, to keep pace with the high-tech spying complaints, league officials say.

“What we wanted to do was give some clarification, give some forewarning that we have new technologies, too,” said Ray Anderson, the league’s executive vice president for football operations, who oversaw the changes to the manual. “We did all of that, very frankly, to upgrade after we saw in various places and heard in various places the suspicions by a variety of folks.”

Copies of the 2007 manual obtained by The Times show that many of the recent changes concern policies on the placement of cameras and microphones, among other tactics the Patriots have been accused of pressing to their advantage.

The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role.

“They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.”

Once the Patriots were caught taping, it only served to heighten speculation about what else they might be doing.

The Jacksonville Jaguars lodged a complaint against the Patriots about the failure of a coach-to-quarterback radio system during a January 2006 playoff game, a former Jaguars executive said.

The N.F.L. team executive said the rules committee had discussed that complaint in particular. Aiello said the league had found no violation.

“Other than the videotaping of coaching signals, there has been no evidence to substantiate a claim of misconduct by the Patriots on any of these matters,” Aiello wrote in an e-mail message.

But in the league’s changes to its operations manual for 2007, it mandated that neutral operators, who have not previously worked that team’s home games, run the coach-to-quarterback radio systems, as well as game clocks, for playoff games. This off-season, Commissioner Roger Goodell put in place more measures to offset cheating. They included lowering the standards necessary to impose discipline, along with yearly certification by each team that it had complied with rules and reported violations.

The N.F.L. has disclosed only select passages from the operations manual. Among professional sports leagues, the N.F.L.’s position on its manual is hardly unusual. The National Basketball Association has an operations manual distributed only to league and team personnel. Major League Baseball has a book of bulletins sent only to its clubs. The National Hockey League also has an internal document.

The manual, which is separate from the playing rules, governs the use of new technologies, in addition to covering mundane matters like the color of yellow that must be painted on goal posts.

League officials rewrote many sections of the manual at the outset of the 2007 season, before the Patriots were caught using video technology to steal signals from coaches of the division-rival Jets.

In a preface to the 2007 operations manual, league officials listed “changes to policies.”

In addition to requiring neutral operators for coach-to-quarterback radio systems during playoff games, the league said players with radio components in their helmets must wear a decal — a lime-green dot — “displayed on the midline of the rear of the helmet.”

Under radio system malfunction, the league promised to make unannounced visits to teams to make sure no one tampered with the systems.

And under stadium video locations, the guide to changes said, “Reworded: entire section.”

The N.F.L. team executive said the changes to the manual matched complaints against the Patriots.

“When they change the rules, they don’t mention teams,” the executive said. “But in my mind, a lot of it was from New England.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sp...ts&oref=slogin