What I find common is people ignore what they have been told doesn't really exist. In some cases they will force themselves to ignore it or come up with some other excuse as opposed to accepting what really happened for whatever it was. Thus only children or dogs seeing spirits or ghosts. They don't know they are supposed to not believe in ghosts or OBE's or ESP or what some would amount to MagicK.

We don't know every ****ing thing about life and we sure as hell don't know jack shit about death except how to get dead. Anyone who says factualy there are no ghosts, spirits, afterlife, etc. may be right. But in my book they are no more closer to the answer then someone who does believe in such.

I'm a bit of a lurker but couldn't resist replying to this one...

1) The OP's quoted link is from The Sun. Therefore by definition it's not real

HOWEVER I am a beliver in some form of afterlife, but one must ask, if ghosts are real, out of the trillions of forms of life that has died since day one, why are only a handful visible in the real world? Must be a pretty interesting set of circumstances required to make one a ghost at death, huh?

Nah, ghosts are fiction, all of them. Maybe the dead do inhabit the same dimensional planes as us, but I don't think they're visible, at least by us of them.

Creepy thought that they could be watching you at night though....:eek:

Can you expand on funkiness? You said that you had never had it until you cleaned the house for the first time. Was it physical, emotional, or something totally different?

I don't wan't to hijack the thread but Carlota's experience is interesting.

It was a feeling that someone was right behind me, or around me, watching me. I kept looking over my shoulder, or in the instances when I was in the shower, I would pull the curtain back to see who was standing there. No one was ever there. One time, I could feel the presence in my car.

basically the feeling that someone was there, but you couldn't see them. it's a creepy feeling for sure.

welcome to chiefsplanet

No, what?

I certainly don't have any trouble believing that the doorway to hell is in Kansas. :)

I had a good friend pass and would get the same feeling for a short period of time after he had died. It's like you could hear him talking to you in your head or feel a chill when he passed through you. One time I went to the restroom and there was a shower curtain in there. I could hear him say "it's like you could just reach out and touch me". I pushed open the curtain and of course there was nobody there. I could hear him laughing in my head. The girl he was with when he died was with me at the house that day. I told her what happened and she said he does that to me all the time like it was no big deal. I thought I was losing my mind.

QFT

One can always come here to validate the fact we only use 10% of our brainpower. And that is the smarty ones

ROFL

Oh, the irony.

Go watch House Party and stfd :D

I'll tell you what I do know for sure. I'm glad I'm not you. To talk about spiritual things in absolutes is ridiculous. Keep acting like you're all over this like white on rice and everyone else is an idiot though, it's amusing.

that doesnt explain how something with no physical presence to reflect light can be seen by anything

I can't explain it but I do know that the Stanford experiments with OBE's and the Monroe techniques revealed that you could see a spiritual body.

WAIT WAIT WAIT....


We arent talking about ghosts from pitbulls....

which raises an alarming question...have you ever seen an animal ghost before? I mean if there are ghosts...and people believe dogs wait for their owners at rainbow bridge...then what about the cows ghosts at slaughter houses...or chickens ghosts...or fish ghosts....or the other various animal ghosts from lab experiments...

you should totally go back to that house...and make a home movie...and call out every ghost in the house.

and then go in the basement and say outloud "MARTIN SHE IS DOWN HERE HIDING FROM YOU" and then post it on youtube

The same way you can't see X-rays. The same way a camera lense sees things your eyes don't.

What is physical? Who defined what physical is and what did they base that on? Did they analyze a "poltergeist" when they defined the word physical?

Dude science is nothing more than an explanation of what we think we already know.

if you listen to the religious crazies around here, only humans have souls.

and apparently the "friendly" animals, like cats and dogs.


what about plants? anyone ever seen the ghost of a ficus?

That will never happen for 2 reasons..
1)I will NEVER step foot into that house again
2) I will NEVER step foot into that town again, but only because that town is horrid....

<object height="355" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cR2BQ13BKEE&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="355" width="425"></object>

i would like to see the 'proof' you can 'see ghosts'.

on what energy do these beings operate?

nevermind after reading this page it appears the discussion is among true believers for whom no proof is required and no reproof would be sufficient

uh...life source energy?

After looking at that picture again I've come to the conclusion that the 14 year old was smoking the ganja. He accidentally snapped a shot as a friend exhaled and had to explain it to his parents. They're convinced it's a supernatural miracle because little Johnny has been chosen.

A ghost is said to be the apparition of a dead person. They are usually seen to be similar in appearance to that person, and are often encountered in places he or she frequented, or in association with the person's former belongings.[citation needed] The word "ghost" may also refer to the spirit or soul of a deceased person, or any spirit or demon.[1][2][3] Ghosts are often associated with hauntings, which is, according to the Parapsychological Association, "the more or less regular occurrence of paranormal phenomena associated with a particular locality (especially a building) and usually attributed to the activities of a discarnate entity; the phenomena may include apparitions, poltergeist disturbances, cold drafts, sounds of footsteps and voices, and various odors."[2]

Ghosts are a controversial anomalous phenomenon. According to a poll conducted in 2005 by the Gallup Organization, about 32% of Americans believe in the existence of ghosts.[4] The term ghost has been replaced by apparition in parapsychology, because the word ghost is deemed insufficiently precise.[5]

Contents [hide]
1 Historical background
2 Skeptical analysis
3 Popular culture
4 Books
5 See also
6 References
7 External links



Historical background
The belief in ghosts as souls of the departed is closely related to the ancient concept of animism, which attributed souls to everything in nature, including human beings, animals, plants, rocks, etc. [6] As the nineteenth-century anthropologist James Frazer explained in his classic work, The Golden Bough, souls were seen as the creature within that animated the body:

"If a man lives and moves, it can only be because he has a little man or animal inside, who moves him. The animal inside the animal, the man inside the man, is the soul. And as the activity of an animal or man is explained by the presence of the soul, so the repose of sleep or death is explained by its absence; sleep or trance being the temporary, death being the permanent absence of the soul... "[7]

Although the human soul was sometimes symbolically or literally depicted in ancient cultures as a bird or other animal, it was widely held that the soul was an exact reproduction of the body in every feature, even down to clothing the person wore. This is depicted in artwork from various ancient cultures, including such works as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which shows deceased people in the afterlife appearing much as they did before death, including the style of dress.

Another widespread belief concerning ghosts is that they were composed of a misty, airy, or subtle material. Anthropologists speculate that this may also stem from early beliefs that ghosts were the person within the person, most noticeable in ancient cultures as a person's breath, which upon exhaling in colder climates appears visibly as a white mist.[6] This belief may have also fostered the metaphorical meaning of "breath" in certain languages, such as the Latin spiritus and the Greek pneuma, which by analogy became extended to mean the soul. In the Bible, God is depicted as animating Adam with a breath.


An artist's interpretation of a ghostly woman on a flight of stairs, based on common descriptions.Although the evidence for ghosts is largely anecdotal, the belief in ghosts throughout history has remained widespread and persistent.

In many historical accounts, ghosts were thought to be deceased people looking for vengeance, or imprisoned on earth for bad things they did during life. Most cultures have ghost stories in their mythologies. Many stories from the Middle Ages and the Romantic era rely on the macabre and the fantastic, and ghosts are a major theme in literature from those eras.

Ghost stories date back to ancient times, and can be found in many different cultures. The Chinese philosopher, Mo Tzu (470-391 BC), is quoted as having said:

"The way to find out whether anything exists or not is to depend on the testimony of the ears and eyes of the multitude. If some have heard it or some have seen it then we have to say it exists. If no one has heard it and no one has seen it then we have to say it does not exist. So, then, why not go to some village or some district and inquire? If from antiquity to the present, and since the beginning of man, there are men who have seen the bodies of ghosts and spirits and heard their voices, how can we say that they do not exist? If none have heard them and none have seen them, then how can we say they do? But those who deny the existence of the spirits say: "Many in the world have heard and seen something of ghosts and spirits. Since they vary in testimony, who are to be accepted as really having heard and seen them?" Mo Tzu said: As we are to rely on what many have jointly seen and what many have jointly heard, the case of Tu Po is to be accepted."[8] (note: King Hsuan (827-783 BC) executed his minister, Tu Po, on false charges even after being warned that Tu Po's ghost would seek revenge. Three years later, according to historical chronicles, Tu Po's ghost shot and killed Hsuan with a bow and arrow before an assembly of feudal lords.)

One of the earliest known ghost "sightings" in the west took place in Athens, Greece.[9] Pliny the Younger (c. (50 AD) described it in a letter to Licinius Sura: Athenodoros Cananites (c. 74 BC – 7 AD), a Stoic philosopher, decided to rent a large, Athenian house, to investigate widespread rumors that it was haunted. Athenodoros staked out at the house that night, and, sure enough, a disheveled, aged spectre, bound at feet and hands with rattling chains, eventually "appeared". The spirit then beckoned for Athenodoros to follow him; Athenodoros complied, but the ghost soon vanished. The philosopher marked the spot where the old man had disappeared, and, on the next day, advised the magistrates to dig there. The man's shackled bones were reportedly uncovered three years later. After a proper burial, the hauntings ceased.[10]

Many Eastern religious traditions also subscribe to the concept of ghosts. The Hindu Garuda Purana has detailed information about ghosts.[11]

The Hebrew Torah and the Bible contain few references to ghosts, associating spiritism with forbidden occult activities cf. Deuteronomy 18:11. The most notable reference is in the First Book of Samuel (I Samuel 28:7-19 KJV), in which a disguised King Saul has the Witch of Endor summon the spirit of Samuel. In the New Testament, Jesus has to persuade the Disciples that he is not a ghost following the resurrection, Matthew 24. In a similar vein, Jesus' followers at first believe him to be a ghost when they see him walking on water.

The Child ballad Sweet William's Ghost recounts the story of a ghost returning to beg a woman to free him from his promise to marry her, as he obviously cannot being dead; her refusal would mean his damnation. This reflects a popular British belief that the dead would haunt their lovers if they took up with a new love without some formal release.[12]

The Unquiet Grave expresses a belief even more widespread, found in various location over Europe: ghosts can stem from the excessive grief of the living, whose mourning interferes with the dead's peaceful rest.[13]

In many folktales from around the world, the hero arranges for the burial of a dead man. Soon after, he gains a companion who aids him and, in the end, the hero's companion reveals that he is in fact the dead man.[14] Instances of this include the Italian fairy tale Fair Brow and the Swedish The Bird 'Grip'.


Skeptical analysis
Critics of "eyewitness ghost sightings" suggest that limitations of human perception and ordinary physical explanations can account for such sightings; for example, air pressure changes in a home causing doors to slam, or lights from a passing car reflected through a window at night.[15] Pareidolia, an innate tendency to recognize patterns in random perceptions, can cause people to believe they have seen ghosts.[16] Reports of ghosts "seen out of the corner of the eye" may be accounted for by the sensitivity of human peripheral vision. According to skeptical investigator Joe Nickell:

...peripheral vision is very sensitive and can easily mislead, especially late at night, when the brain is tired and more likely to misinterpret sights and sounds.[15]

Nickell also states that a person's belief that a location is haunted may cause them to interpret mundane events as confirmations of a haunting:

Once the idea of a ghost appears in a household . . . no longer is an object merely mislaid. . . . There gets to be a dynamic in a place where the idea that it's haunted takes on a life of its own. One-of-a-kind quirks that could never be repeated all become further evidence of the haunting.[15]

Sound is thought to be another cause of supposed sightings. Frequencies lower than 20 hertz are called infrasound and are normally inaudible, but scientists Richard Lord and Richard Wiseman have concluded that infrasound can cause humans to experience bizarre feelings in a room, such as anxiety, extreme sorrow or even the chills.[17]

Carbon monoxide poisoning, which can cause changes in perception of the visual and auditory systems,[18] was recognized as a possible explanation for haunted houses as early as 1921.

Another potential explanation of apparitions is that they are hypnagogic hallucinations.

The traditional perception of ghosts wearing clothing is considered illogical by some researchers, given the supposed spiritual nature of ghosts, suggesting that the basis of what a ghost is said to look like and consist of is quite dependent on preconceptions made by society.[19] Skeptics also say that, to date, there is no credible scientific evidence that any location is inhabited by spirits of the dead.[20]

Some researchers, such as Professor Michael Persinger (Laurentian University, Canada), have speculated that changes in geomagnetic fields (created, e.g., by tectonic stresses in the Earth's crust or solar activity) could stimulate the brain's temporal lobes and produce many of the experiences associated with hauntings. This theory has been tested in various ways. Some scientists have examined the relationship between the time of onset of unusual phenomena in allegedly haunted locations and any sudden increases in global geomagnetic activity. Others have investigated whether the location of alleged hauntings is associated with certain types of magnetic activity. Finally, a third strand of work has involved laboratory studies in which stimulation of the temporal lobe with transcerebral magnetic fields has elicited subjective experiences that strongly parallel phenomena associated with hauntings. All of this work is controversial and thus has attracted a large amount of debate and disagreement.[21]

X-rays are easily detectable by many means other than human eyes. Something that has never been done involving ghosts.

And science has one advantage that you're grossly overlooking. Testability. Being able to duplicate results in a controlled environment. Another something that has never been done involving ghosts.

Through time and science, all things are revealed. People have been trying for thousands of years to prove the existence of ghosts, and have come up with nothing but grainy videos and blurry pictures. We can map the human genome, but we can't prove the existence of ghosts? Why has there been zero progress in the area of paranormal when we've progressed in nearly every other area area of human existence?

Are you familiar with the law of the conservation of energy?

I think it's more of a page where people can discuss the probability of there being ghosts and talk about their personal experiences. I don't think anyone expects you to just believe them, I know I don't. Furthermore I think a lot of people don't know what they are experiencing and this provides a spot to talk about it. Just because you have not had an experience doesn't make anyone else's any less real. I know for me personally OBE's made my perception of everything and the possibilities change dramatically. I don't know what it is for sure but since I experienced it I could never look at the things the same again.

Maybe ghosts are really just pissed off gasoline fumes

DUH! I was merely making an analogy. Is it possible that because of our refusal to accept ethereal beings that we have not made any real efforts to discovering ways to prove the existence of a ghost? And when it seems someone does a million people like you come running calling them crazy or liars or telling them it was really swamp gas trapped in a weather balloon.

Science is nothing more than figuring out how God did\does things. How many millions of $'s more have been spent learning to map said human genome comapared to finding ghosts?

We progressed in human existence cause we are human. DUH!

Yeah but who is anyone to tell you what you experienced wasn't real?

I bet if you said you saw Jesus as opposed to a generic ghost half, not all but half I would bet would all the sudden believe you.

What if YOU saw Jesus and he said "become a writer for WPI" would you do it...or just brush it off thinking you may have just seen the false prophet.

hmmmm if he referenced WPI I might have to question him....ROFL

And for the record. I have seen Jesus. And he has seen me.

We can only hope those exist. :D

Your idea on the refusal to accept ethereal beings doesn't hold up whatsoever. Cameras and video cameras don't have these preconceived human notions. Why aren't there obvious pictures and videos showing all these spirits? Something obvious that isn't easily reproduced? Why can't spirits be detected by any known method that can be replicated?

And efforts have been made. Since humans began explaining their surroundings efforts have been made by people who believe in it. They all have failed.

You're asking why we as a society haven't put as much money into finding ghosts as we have in biology?

Same reason we aren't spending millions to find unicorns or leprechauns.

No. The thing about science is, if you can be made famous for it, someone will attempt to figure it out. If someone could actually prove the existence of a "ghost", they would win the Nobel Prize and it would be considered one of the greatest discoveries in human history. With all of that on the line, don't you think someone would have gone after it by now? What about all of the ghost hunter shows? All they need is some repeatable actions to produce a ghost and they would make millions. Why haven't they done that yet? Lack of trying? Did they just not want the fame and millions of dollars? The offer is, and always has been, on the table: Make a sitution that can consistently turn out a ghost in some way shape or form and you become famous. To say that people ignore that offer just because their parents told them it wasn't possible completely ignores how man has acted in its history. If the money is there, people will follow.

I think ghosts are alot like psychics. Many people claim to have had a psychic reading that was unexplainable and swear psychics are for real, and yet why hasn't anyone become rich beyond their wildest dreams if it were real? If you were a real psychic, wouldn't you be calling up every newspaper in town to prove your abilities? People would pay any price to have their questions answered, to communicate with the dead, see the future etc etc...and yet no one does it. The fact they leave money on the table tells me they know they would be found out if they ever went prime time. Same situation with ghosts. The money is there to be had, why has no one come forward with anything?

--------i just did a search to retell my story this is true and i was sober.-------

i might have told this on here before i dont know----------


My Father died in the house i live in know i held him as he breathed his last breath in this world.
20 years old

I wasnt working (the grief made me crazy) and needed some cash so i was going to sell his car to the junkyard.
Salvage guy shows up and i cant find the title anywhere(id been looking all morning) so my dad was a teacher and had personality and his students always gave him stuff.
one student gave him a kiln fired bust of himself (we called it Roys shrine to Roy):)
he also played the piano-

anyway im standing there and i ask him.

"ive never asked for nothin and i really need some help"

and at that instant the metronome(sp?) on the bookshelf starts ticking.

underneath it was the title.

now you have to unlatch a metronome or it will keeptime....they dont just automate on there own.

thats real shit right there boys and girls.

i miss him everyday.

502 Osage in Manhattan, KS is haunted.


I don't live there anymore, so I don't care about giving out the address....

Redrum's mom is like a ghost
the only thing you can really feel
is scared

you sir, are a good man.
sec

I have heard about how kansas is supposed to be a gateway to hell and theres some church out there thats crazy haunted. Can anyone elaborate or have stories?

.

Wow. 122 posts because of an obvious picture of nothing.

No offense BD, but there's nothing there. And I believe in Ghosts.

for those of you who are saying there is no such thing, it's impossible, you're naive for believing in this, hasn't been proven despite many efforts...etc.

Either you are an atheist or a hypocrite.

god.

Man you are consistently dumb and gullible. You should change your name to dumbdaddy

Well, after digging around for the better part of an hour, I was unable to locate my "ghost image" photo, although I did find pretty much every other goddamn photograph ever taken of me, plus a wayward bottle of cologne that I tore the house apart looking for about six months ago.

Organization ain't my strong suit. :banghead:

Anyway, no picture. Maybe the ghost got it.

If I do find it (probably the next time I'm looking for something else) I'll post it.

:cuss:

Wow. Just wow.

FAX

Or how about we go there for a weekend.. I am all about this..

Looks like some sort of cloth, maybe on a pole??

Not sure..

(will summarize of what I remembered of the interview)

I know I was watching a special on SCifi and they did an interview with a man.. It was his first time ever on the EAst Coast or some sort, but he felt a connection to the area.. He knew where stuff was at in the local area even though he was never there in his life..

Well it turns out as they were going through the local area they went to a civil war museum and there was a picture of him or one that looks exactly like him there in uniform.. The guy was reincarnated, and happened to have a birth mark on his chest in the exact same spot he was shot and killed when he was in the civil war..

Either proof of reincarnation or 1 in a bazillion odds..

Heat does not really have a physical presence, but light can reflect off of it..

It is possible that the physical presence is very small into this world and that is the reason why it is very rare to see or capture..

Get in contact with the current owner and make a CP event..

I read tonight, that our soul, is intertwined throughout our body, flowing BETWEEN the cells and around us creating our 'aura'-like energy field.

Interesting.

A common mistake, Mr. Ari Chi3fs. That's not energy, that's loose cell goo.

FAX

That's why my cock glows in the dark.

Did anyone watch Ghost Hunters last night? That first investigation had some pretty freaky shit.

The YouTube vid on page 4, post 52, is freakin' spooky. I'm sure there are explanations...but it's pretty damn spooky...

...I didn't even have the guts to watch the last part with the demon-kid...I have a mind that tends to remember things like this vividly at the worst possible times...

I don't know what to think about ghosts. My sister (who I believe, she's never been one to be full of shit) had a very interesting experience with what she could only define as a demon, not really even a ghost. Something evil, to be sure. A black shrouded figure, ala the Nazgul in Lord of the Rings (except this was back in the early 80's, I'm just using that image for reference) came into her room. We were actually staying at a friends house, and she and my sister were sleeping in the trailer that they used for vacations, because their house was too small. So this was not a place that she knew well, but she wasn't uncomfortable there...until that night. The room temperature dropped, she could barely breath, there was a throbbing in her head, and this thing kept growing in the room, like it was approaching her. She closed her eyes and said a prayer, and told it to leave if it were not a thing of God. It left, instantly.

...she may have been dreaming, entirely possible, in fact probable IMO. But that experience has stayed with her to this day, better than 25 years later, it is still fresh on her mind. She remembers the change in the temperature of the room, seeing her own breath and feeling her cheeks getting colder. She remembers the repressive presence of the thing, and it was hard to breath, and she remembers vividly the throbbing in her head. Could have been a dream, but personally I've never remembered a dream that vividly in my life. Nor has she, according to her...

blueballs has seen a ghost
but he wont admit it
his mom was covered in white after the family reunion

I have had similar experiences, but it is because I am prone to lucid dreaming. You would swear you are awake and even remember details of the room but all of this weird shit is going on. Almost always, too, you feel that you can't move (because you are sort of paralyzed when you dream).

One of the earliest times I can remember doing this is when I was a kid in Boy Scouts on a camp out. I remember laying in my tent all night, scared shitless because a bear or something was growling and scratching outside the tent. I clearly remember the details of the inside of the tent and my friends who were sleeping, totally oblivious to it all. it seemed to go on all night.

When I got up in the morning, I looked around the tent and didn't see any sign of anything moving around. I also wasn't tired, like I would have been if I had actually been awake all night. It seemed really real though (still does).

Lucid dreams are like that. I have had a lot of them over the years - a similar one on a different camping trip and many where something or someone was in the room with me. pretty freaky when it happens.

The most annoying ones are the ones where I dream that I am awake all night. :rolleyes:

Who knows if it was a dream or not, but in my experience, and I was wide awake, it was always so damn cold and we could see our breath. Again, it was years later when I saw Sixth Sense, that i realized it may of had something to do with the ghosts.

My mom lived in a haunted house when I was 4yrs old. She's told me about some crazy demonic shit. Same type of thing, dark shadows, gurgling, shuffling across the carpet, pressure at the edge of her bed, like someone else was in it with her. My mom and her roomate ended up fleeing the home after some crazy incident where the refrigerator keep opening and closing, over and over again and a bunch of gurgling sounds. Before she fled, she had friends over from another state who were supposed to stay a week. The husband didnt believe in ghosts and thought my mom was nuts. After one night in the house, he told his wife thart they were getting the hell out of there.

lol...the thunderclaps were the scariest part of the video.

All of that is easily faked.

Oh, I'm sure. But it's a well done ghost story type thing...

...and like I said, I have a really active imagination, so that kind of stuff stays with me and messes with me...:redface:

Too add to that, there just my be a form of physical existence we still don't know jack shit about.


I get so sick of people thinking we know it all about everything.

Seems to me wasn't long ago people thought the world was flat too.

Light reflects off of heat??

How so? Please explain. I seem to recall heat being a form of energy.

You're a piece of work dude.

Feel free to prove otherwise...... I'll gladly listen to your rebuttal and respectfully discuss the subject.

But I'm going to point out a camera strap or a silly physics misconception when I see it. Prove me wrong and I will gladly admit to it.

It wasn't a strap, but whatever. I have no idea how the heat/light thing works. As much as you try mocking everyone for not being able to prove their stories this still doesn't make you the great omniscient one. You cannot prove everyone is a liar any more than they can prove it happened. Your arrogance in this thread on a subject that has no absolutes has shown me a side of you I didn't know existed.

Sorry bub... but I'm calling them like I see em. Do you still have the camera in question? If you do... take a look at the strap. I'll bet you'll see the same interwoven "fish scale" braid pattern that showed up on the pic. It's pretty common.


http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4...6887209kr9.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1...towhitevg0.gif

http://www.vwaskar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pd/ecto3.jpg

http://www.luvmutt.com/photos/upload_122006/baxter3.jpg

As you can see in the last pic.... Baxter is clearly devouring the would-be ghost.

Now compare that to yours and decide for yourself....

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/106/attachmentvd8.jpg

I gotta agree with fish on this one. It does look like a camera strap that got in the way.

3 Things.

It did have a strap, a thick, black, flat sandisk strap. It was around my wrist and when attempted many, many times afterwords could never produced anything even remotely resembling that. Once again to me there really are no definates this was just an open discussion on possibilities. THat picture doesn't mean anything. The arrogance you have shown everyone in this thread who would even consider there is a possibility that we are something more than our hide or that there may be something spiritual out there is ridiculous. Like I said before you can't prove that they don't yet you spike the ball and parade around like you just returned the ball for 109 yards.

Yes light can reflect off of heat.. You are the one that wanted proof that you can get an image of something without a physical body.. Heat does not have a physical body unless you want to qualify atoms and molecules as that.. Of course if you agree to that then everything has a physical body and you are proved wrong again..

Of course it seems you are more concerned about looking like a douche then anything..

And I agree that that is a camera strap.. The church video is probably some church ceremony where they have a flag on a pole.. And the OP picture looks to be a time lapsed picture..

Dang BD you said your last thread about this died, this one seemed to gather interest.

It's a strap. The camera flash is even reflecting off of it.

If this was an open discussion, why are you saying I'm arrogant for proposing alternate possibilities? Is this only an open discussion if I agree with you?

My intention was not for this picture to make that big of a deal. I never claimed it to be anything necessarily . First of all the only picture there that is mine is the one of the dog. Secondly it had a big flat black strap. Thirdly it was around my wrist when I looked at the picture. The last thing I noticed that was different was that you can actually see through parts of it. For what it's worth.

Do you ever see the wavy air coming off of the hot pavement?

This has nothing to do with me, it has to do with your arrogance when posting to everyone in this thread since it began. I haven't had any issues with you other than pointing out your arrogance. I really don't want to go down a road that leads nowhere either

Heat is energy. Heat has no atoms or molecules. It is the transfer of kinetic energy. There is no substance to it. Light does not reflect off of another form of energy.