Well most have drank the kool-aid for 20 years... That sure hasnt helped the growth of brain cells...

Ah, my apologies. I mis-read your comment. It's just been a rough weekend for me, that's all.

And he can do his "Do-Over" at the Olathe McDonalds.

Why would Denver want him?

I think Bowlen is alittle smarter than the Hunts and Carl...

]

Would you like a hot apple pie with that?

Before the draft the Chiefs went to see the guy workout in person and seemed to like him alot.

I wish they would have tried harder to move up when the Rams passed on him.

I think that was all smokescreen if he had fallen the Chiefs were going to try to move out with say Baltimore.

Most of this fanbase didn't want a QB either, it's kinda sad.

We can run the wildcat offense too!!!1!!!!!! It's fun!!!!1!!!!1!1!!!!!!!

Regardless the dude wouldnt be worth a shit by the time Herm and Curl got done developing him...

Its better for Ryan this way... At least now he has a chance, with us = zero chance of surviving... At least he wont be mentally reeruned when his playing career is over... More than I can say for Herm and Curl...

Who cares?

The fact is, Ryan was gone before our pick.

The fact is, the Chiefs wanted McFadden on the 5th pick, before Oakland took that away (thankfully).

The fact is, if Ryan was selected, he wouldn't get much playing time, as Herm would more than likely have Croyle starting with Huard backing up. And if Ryan did indeed, got snaps, he would have no chance with the O-line of ours and this shit-for-brains coaching staff.

The assumption is, if the Chiefs wanted to trade up, they would more than likely have to forefit their late 1st round pick, along with their 5th pick, just for a 2 or 3rd spot in the first round.

Would that be worth it?

Hell no.

If thats true, that tells me all i need to know about Herm and Carls lack of sack.

They would have rathered taken their chances with Brokie than Ryan?? WTF????

No, Jeff. They don't look stupid.

You keep glossing over a simple set of facts.

Matt Ryan has looked decent because:

He has a solid OL, strong running game, WR that can get open, and a coaching staff that hasn't handcuffed him.

He would have had NONE of those things in KC, and it would have been reeruned to spend that pick/money on a guy your setting up to fail from Day One.

Your argument about ruining other draft picks is reeruned - bad coaching isn't going to ruin a DT. Or even a CB. Those guys can get by on instincts alone if need be.

It is absolutely neccessary for a rookie QB to have solid coaching from the day they enter the league. Show me the last rookie QB to perform well in spite of shitty coaching...

So why are we fans of this team? I think that's the real question if we really believe they'll just **** everything up and ruin all the players what are we doing?

:banghead:


Nevermind. I don't what to have to explain the subtle attempt at humor all night. Just forget I tried and move on please.

Well the fanbase has been so brainwashed about he crusty savy proven vet QB that we have always pranced through arrowhead...

They cant see past 9-7 and noise in the playoffs....

Your right is it very sad......

Crap, I sorry, I missed that humor...

Please forgive...

:spock:

Move up to where?

We would have had to trade WITH the Rams to get ahead of Atlanta.

And as pointed out, the compensation would have been ridiculous.

This goes way way deeper than that, coaching doesn't change a guys mentality. Matt Ryan has something that is rare, he doesn't remotely look like a guy who's started 6 games. That goes way deeper than anything surrounding him..

Also the Falcons won 3 games last year and sometimes these arguments make it sound like he's on a team with alot of talent so he just steps in and is fine. This is Atlanta...they have 1 good WR and a RB, and a bunch of no name lineman.

I think we are fans of this team for several reasons... Mostly because this is what we have grown up with...

Second, we are fans of this team because we want to know what it is like to be free from the bonds of mediocrity, stupidity and Carl. We have suffered enough, the day Carl and Herm are removed, it will feel like we have won the superbowl or even better...

I dont want to give up my fanhood, I want to be there when it all goes down and we can rejoice in freedom...

Who said anything about ruining ALL the players?

I'm not worried about the other positions, I'm worried about the QB position.

No OL + no running game + WR's that can't get open + Herm/Dick Curl = FAILURE.

I guess somebody wanted to trade up.

This is practically almost the same team as last year, except with a few additions and subtractions, and they already have matched their total win mark in 6 games already.

Why is that? Is it maybe that they have a solid coaching staff?

Does this mean if no one is fired after this year we shouldn't take a QB?

QFT, regardless of whom is behind center, this recipe is shit, complete hammered dog shit!

That is exactly what it means Mecca.... You cant take a talented QB in the first round and surround him with total incompatence and expect him to succeed, let alone physically survive in the NFL...

I should apparently start drinking....and drinking heavily.

ROFL

Well do you think otherwise? What gives you the confidence in this coaching staff that they could take a 1st round QB and successfully develop him into a solid NFL QB?

Honestly, I would rather just take another punter in the 1st round and just forget about it all until we replace our mgmt and coaching...

Its pretty pointless at this juncture of the tenure for Carl and Herm...

I should also point out that this Mike Smith character has some major credentials before joining Atlanta.

Jax's D is terrible right now. During his time as a DC from 2003-2007, his defenses is ranked above average for the most part.

Ever since he left this past season, the Jaguar defense has gone shit.

I should also add that he was the LB coach for Baltimore Ravens, during their glory years where they won the SB.

That's great and everything but what's a DC know about coaching a QB?

Obviously their staff is doing a good job but I think alot of this with Ryan is just part of who Matt Ryan is.

These guys will be gone by the end of 2009 at the latest. Hopefully at the end of 2008.

You're apparently not watching Atlanta much then...

Ryan's been sacked 7 times in 6 games. No-names or not, they're vastly underrated.

Roddy White has more yardage than our #1 WR and TE combined.

Michael Jenkins and Harry Douglas have 84 more yards combined than EVERY OTHER PLAYER that has caught a pass for KC COMBINED.

Atlanta has a TON more talent than we do, and it's not even close.

Wasnt Jenkins and White both first round picks?

Perhaps maybe they understand the fact that a QB needs to go out and play, and make mistakes, so that the QB can learn from them?

Perhaps maybe that he understands how to "coach" the game?

One way or another, he had major credentials as I mentioned before, while Herm Edwards has none. Yet everybody wonders why Atlanta is 4-2 and the Chiefs are 1-4.

I don't think people do, actually.

Or it could just be that he's been put in a damn good situation in which to excel.

I doubt you'd be singing his praises like this had we drafted him - knowing you, you'd probably be making excuses for him.

White was and White is a good player, he has speed so he can make big plays....Jenkins may have been if he was he was the last or next to the last pick of the round. He's very big and not very fast though...

K say they leave at the end of 09, Can a young QB survive that one year with these guys and actually produce for years to come?

I dont, I think/feel the damage will be so extensive that the kid will be the next Ryan Leaf...

Unless you're a "true fan"

Well he made a pretty big damn catch yesterday, or this thread wouldnt have been started.

Even the true fans understand why we're 1-4. They will accept all of Herm's excuses and regard him as generally blameless.

It's not just their staff, are they doing a nice job, yea they are. But at the same time alot of this has to do with how he was prepared and how much he is a student of the game.

The guy hasn't been sacked once on a blitz and generally doesn't look like he's confused, that is as much him as coaching. I also think he was greatly helped by playing on a college team where he was surrounded by crap, Roddy White probably gets more separation than he saw his college WR's get.

He did, it helped make up for earlier in the game when he dropped a touchdown pass.

Poor "true fans" that they are being given empty promises and full of lies.

I think Clark is following Herm like a blind lemming....

Man I wish we would have gotten that guy that we had no chance of getting....

If only we could be demoralizing him right now...

Most people, even us as Chiefs fans, thought the Falcons were in a far worse position than any other team in the league going into the offseason.

What does Hugh Douglas have to do with this?

I remember several dudes on here chalking that game up as a win for the Chiefs back in July/August.


ROFL

In all honesty I think that was looking through it with Vick colored glasses. Him and Petrino were the reason for that cluster flock that was in Atlanta.

The Falcons are starting starting 1 rookie on defense and 2 rookies on offense. That's it. They have a lot of older vets to accompany that. They are hardly rebuilding like the Chiefs are....

Um that's a completely misleading thing to say.....they have atleast 3 rookies from last year starting and numerous drafted players over the last few years starting.

Falcons Starting Lineup:

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People...pth_Chart.aspx

<table summary="Defense Lineup" class="defaultTable" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="evenRow"><td>LDE</td> <td class="firstString"> 98 // J Anderson 2yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>DT</td> <td class="firstString"> 95 // J Babineaux 4yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>DT</td> <td class="firstString"> 90 // G Jackson 12yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>RDE</td> <td class="firstString"> 55 // J Abraham 9yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>OLB</td> <td class="firstString"> 59 // M Boley 4yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>MLB</td> <td class="firstString"> 50 // C Lofton R
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>OLB</td> <td class="firstString"> 56 // K Brooking 11yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>LCB</td> <td class="firstString"> 20 // B Grimes 1yr
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>RCB</td> <td class="firstString"> 23 // C Houston 2yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>SS</td> <td class="firstString"> 36 // L Milloy 13yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>FS</td> <td class="firstString"> 26 // E Coleman 5yrs
</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table summary="Offense Lineup" class="defaultTable" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="evenRow"><td>WR-X</td> <td class="firstString"> 84 // R White 4yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>LT</td> <td class="firstString"> 72 // S Baker R
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>LG</td> <td class="firstString"> 63 // J Blalock 2yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>C</td> <td class="firstString"> 62 // T McClure 10yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>RG</td> <td class="firstString"> 73 // H Dahl 2yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>RT</td> <td class="firstString"> 77 // T Clabo 3yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>TE</td> <td class="firstString"> 89 // B Hartsock 5yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>WR-Z</td> <td class="firstString"> 12 // M Jenkins 5yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>QB</td> <td class="firstString"> 2 // M Ryan R
</td> </tr> <tr class="oddRow"> <td>RB</td> <td class="firstString"> 33 // M Turner 5yrs
</td> </tr> <tr class="evenRow"> <td>FB</td> <td class="firstString"> 34 // O Mughelli 6yrs
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Do I need to reference the Chiefs?

Looks like to me they have just drafted better than us the last 3-5 years...

Or did a better job developing and utilizing their players.

That was the crux of my point earlier in the thread. How quick can you really call a turnaround that's the result of years of drafting high and the development of quality picks. Meanwhile the Chiefs have 15 years of bad drafts and offseasons where they try to cheap their way to 9-7 by bringing in mid-tier vets in their 30s.

Hopefully these recent drafts pan out, and the apparent change in front office philosophy works, so whoever comes in after Herm can be responsible for a miraculous 'quick' turnaround of our own.

If by "do over" you mean they both leave town and never come back, then yes.