Agreed.

Thigpen came from a Div 2 college - where he was the college's first QB EVER. He led that team to something like 30-8 record. Coming to the Chiefs he stepped in, within a few games was already catching on and putting us into positions to actually compete (had his HC not blown some calls from the sideline IMO, we would have won several more games). He did all of this with, IMO, had one of the worst QB coaches in the NFL. Some help with his footwork from a decent QB coach and I think he could be the QB everyone is hoping we'll draft with our 3rd pick.

I DO NOT have a problem with him having to compete with legit competition for his position during the off season. I do think if we spend the 3rd pick on a QB, invest the $ we'll have to pay a QB pick that high, even if Thigpen is clearly better, the other guy will have the edge for starting.

Sir, I know Casey Printers. And Tyler Thigpen is no Casey Printers.

Seriously though, Thigpen makes bad reads, is constantly over or under throwing his receivers (and I'm talking about the last couple of games last season, where this situation was downright embarrassing), leads his primary receiver way too much, doesn't have a good touch on his passes and is quite inaccurate on the deep passes (the two that he threw). I'd like to have a guy like Thigpen as the thrid QB - maybe. Use him as a fourth wideout, the snap holder on field goals, extra points, etc., but he has not shown the capability of being a starting QB in the NFL.

He got cut by Minnesota for Christs sake! Minnesota! And the Chiefs start him! And (some of) the fans truly want him back as our QB! Don't you tell me that we don't need a goddamn quarterback with our first pick! Other than Detroit, there isn't a team in the NFL that doesn't need a quarterback more than the Chiefs. On every conceivable level we need a quarterback.

So ... do I have this right?

We're going to draft Sanchez ostensibly anointing him as our QBOTF ... but since El Armo is a rookie, we play Thiggy and develop him further instead of giving valuable PT to our future quarterback? Is that the plan here?

Or, are we talking about pinning our hopes on Thiggy as our QBOTF and passing on a quarterback in the draft altogether?

FAX

I thought MN was trying to sneak him onto their practice squad and we picked him up. That's not exactly "cutting" the guy.

FAX

What about that final drive against the Dolphins... in probably the most defining moment of the season for Thigpen. The defense forced the Dolphins to turn the ball over and Thigpen had the opportunity to drive the offense down the field to tie the game with a touchdown.

How did Thigpen respond under the only major pressure situation he was faced with all season, the only real situation he was in to lead the Chiefs to tie and send a game into OT? He melted down... completely choked. First down- incomplete pass (not even close to the WR), Second down- another wild incompletion, Third down- Sacked (held on to the ball too long looking for Tony Gonzalez), Fourth down- INT.

That is exactly what happened. That is also what most teams try to do with 7th round draft picks/developmental players.

That is what the Thigpen-homers want to happen, but Pioli and Haley are too smart to do that.

we have no idea what they are going to do


i assume we will have at least 1 new quarterback on the roster next year ..... probably 2.

i assume Croyle is gone cuz he just can't stay healthy. Even the smallest hit leads to a big injury.

Huard's attitude last year sucked but maybe with the new coaches he gets another year. :shrug:

No Huard is done in KC. He carries one of the bigger contracts and his production certainly doesn't justify his contract.

Trent Green was cut, so was Warner, Brunell, Hasslebeck, and the list goes on.

Just because one person doesn't work out one place doesn't mean he can't succeed at another.

Thig has been on this team for two years now, has been inaccurate from the start, and has not shown that it is getting any better. Yes I think he deserves and will get a shot to compete for the job, but will almost guarantee that he will lose.

And you think Sanchez or Stafford could do better simply because theyre projected to go first rd?

Does anyone here remember Peyton Manning's first season? Jeebus people

The only time we've been remotely competitive is when he's behind center.

So he's the best QB on a garbage team.

yes, but we have to start somewhere


by all means, bring in competition at EVERY position but you shouldn't shit on a guy that actually helped you improve for once.

There is an OG playing for the Colts, that the Chiefs tried to this with. I think it was my first meltdown experience on the Planet.

I want him on the team, I'm just not going to stop arguing to upgrade the position because of him.

fyp

Thigpen better learn how to play under center to give this argument any legitimacy.

The problem is that I don't believe he will be effective as a traditional QB.

And you have to start winning in spite of a crappy defense. Or this place will go all China Syndrome on Haley/Pioli/Hunt...

Or is it because Thigpen didn't really play in training camp so they had to make him comfortable in any way possible? The guy barely got any snaps at all, its hard to think he'd come out in an offense he isn't used to and sling the damn ball all around. Especially with Penis Curl as the QB coach. It's like if Bowe missed training camp during a time when we are using FAST blazing WRs. When he comes back, we would have to switch up a bit to make him more comfortable. Does that means he sucks? No it just means he isnt acclimated to the play style. That's the point of training camp. To get people to know the team style. You cant come in half way during the season and expect to play how every other qb plays. You have to change the playbook to your liking. Maybe next training camp you can work on the things you missed.

And maybe, because the TWO qbs before him had been injured in that style, we stopped running it. McIntosh was letting every D-End get through the line. So dropping back wasn't really an option.

But who knows, we now have a coach who knows offense, and we have a new qb coach. You guys bashed Penis Curl last year, yet you expect Thigpen to be great under him. You cant have a good student if you have a horrible teacher.

Ok this is what I've been thinking why not bring in a vet to mentor him such as a kurt warner type. Give thigpen some coaching and watchout. I still saw him make some throws I haven't seen in years. I'm not giving up on him just yet I just think he needs sometime. He actually is pioli's type of Qb.

I think chances are good we draft a QB, but the worst thing you can do is to annoint sanchez as QBOTF if you draft him. You start the offseason off with Thigpen as the starting QB. And then you force Thigpen to fight to keep his starting position. And then by midseason, you evaluate whether Thigpen is a guy who can lead you into the future, or if you need to look in another direction. If the answer is anything but a resounding "yes", then you can him.

We have 5-6 years to learn if Sanchez is the answer. We have a little less than a half season more to learn if Thigpen is. Before we give up on Thigpen entirely as a starting QB, I want to know for absolute certain that he isn't the answer.

I know a lot of people want to start a guy like Sanchez right away. But most teams don't immediately throw a young QB into the fire like Baltimore and Atlanta did. Most teams wait a half-season to start their rookie QB anyway. ESPECIALLY when you're talking about a guy like Sanchez, who might take a little longer to develop because of his inexperience.

Seriously?

The second start of the guy's career and you're ready to throw the towel in on him because he couldn't "handle the preassure"? How many of the great QBs stuggled in their first couple of starts? In just looking at the QBs in the pro-bowl THIS year -

Peyton started all 16 games with a 3-13 record, threw 28 interceptions, his QB rating was 71

Bret Favre still throws interceptions all over the field, his first year, he threw the ball 4 times and had 2 ints. Managed 13 ints with 13 starts his second year in the nfl

Cutler managed to win 2 of his 5 starts his first season with a QB rat of 88 - probably the best first season of the AFC probowl qbs.

Kerry Collins completed less than half of his passes his first season, threw more INTs than TDs, and had a rating of 61.9.

On the NFC side, you've got...

Warner - No question about his performance once he got a chance to start. But he bounced around until he was 27 before he even got signed by his first NFL team. After 3 solid years in StL, he became a backup and was viewed by many as nothing more until he stepped up this year. His first season of true starting he neted 109 QB rating.

Brees - Threw one more TD than INT, had a QB rating of 76.9. Last pick of the 2nd round - I was frustrated because the 1st and 2nd round picks we gave for Green and DV could have been used to get him, thought he would have made a decent QB for us. But all the experts say he wouldn't have been any good in the NFL because he's only 6- too short.

Last but not least, we have Eli Manning who Giants fans wanted to send packing after 4 years.




Look back and you'll see most of the great QBs weren't stellar in their first seasons. Not every QB is going to be like Brady or Warner, ALMOST ALL of them are going to struggle for their first couple of years. Some that fair better have the luxury of playing for better teams - Cassel for example (in the list above, I'd include Favre, Cuttler and Warner in the group benifiting from a team around them their first season, as well as Tom Brady).


Last year Thigpen accounted for 1 less TD (22) than the entire Chiefs team in 2007 (23). in the games following the Bye week, his qb ratings were not too far off from some of the better QBs in the NFL. Also keep in mind, you really can't put every loss on Thigpen. We lost a lot of games, not because of Thigpen, but dropped passes, poor running, poor D, missed FGs, poor coaching and so on.


Ever since I became a Chiefs fan, one observation I've made is I don't think the Chiefs fan base as a whole could survive drafting and developing a QB. They would boo him at games, complain about his performances, and ask (beg) that coaches and management do something different.

Say we draft Stafford or Sanchez, how long does anyone think the fanbase would put up with bad numbers before they are filled with grumbling and complaining, reffering to the QB as "Another First Round Bust."

That is fine, but the people who want him gone completely sound pretty dumb. Depth is extremely important in this league and you just don't go and cut 1st year starting QB's with an 18-11 TD to INT rate.

Actually you want to get technical he had similar numbers to matt Ryan

Thigpen stats were very similar to Steve Peuller of the Cowboys in 1988.

Lol, I wouldn't put him anywhere near Matt Ryan. But if he could do that with Herm and Penis Curl as his coaches, theres no reason he cant get to Matt Ryans level with real NFL coaching. Hell, he can be our own Steve Young. Great qb who can run.

Me too. I haven't seen a quarterback miss wide open receivers like Thigpen did on occasions too numerous to count since junior high school. Or maybe NAIA football, but I digress. The guy throws beachballs. Or giant wiffleballs. Or oblong marshmallows. Something of that nature.

Sure he deserves a chance. That's why Herm thought he should be on the roster...wait. Scratch that. No chance for him. But seriously, he is going to get the chance. It would be stupid not to give him the chance. However, the only reason he was on the field last season is because the offensive line got Brodie killed and Huard maimed. He was the only option the Chiefs had, and the first three games with Thigpen out there might have been the worst I have ever seen from a quarterback on the NFL level outside of Rex Grossman, and maybe not even him. Then things started shaping up a bit, but not much. And all the credit needs to go to Gailey for that. At least he was able to make the switch in the offense that allowed Thigpen to actually start putting up some numbers. However, his qb'ing was still painful as hell to watch. At least by anyone not named Tony Gonzalez. Then he began to regress again in the final weeks of the season, overthrowing receivers by huge margins, making bad reads, etc. Meltdown.

Yeah, he gets a shot. But they better bring in about five other dudes, including Sanchez/Stafford from the draft to compete. Personally, I felt that it was the Thigpen experiment that truly doomed Carl and Herm. They made no move to get anyone of note to come in and fill the void left by the bloodied, mangled bodies of Croyle and Huard. No one. They thought it best just to let the poor bastard Thigpen die on a vine out there on the field. Many were the comments that the Chiefs were doing so in order to intentionally tank the season for the draft pick. Regardless, it was painful to watch. Very painful.

Word.

Little late on this, but as a QB for the Chiefs or any team, that is the way he should be thinking. Even if he's a 3rd stringer act like you want to be the guy. Dont act like you wanna hold the clipboard and make some money.


I like his attitude. I dont know if he's going to be the QB for the 09 season, but whoever it is, i want them to have the same kind of attitude.

I think he can play under center, but or Oline was so horrible that no QB could have played under center. WE lost 2 QB's becuase our Oline cant block worth a ****. This all happened in 6 games. If we would have stayed in a I formation we would have went through about 2-4 more quarterbacks.


Like i said in my previous post. I dont care who they draft. Draft who they think is best for this team right now. If its a QB, then so be it, If its another position then thats fine as well.

Chiefs + Thigpen > (Broncos + Chargers) - Raiders

Brunnel and Hasselbeck were late round picks by the Green Bay Packers that were traded, not cut, for valuable draft picks.

The problem is Zach that he can't play under center. Do you remember the Raider game? The Atlanta game?

They put him in the spread so that he could better read the defenses. He did a pretty good job of reading the defense in the first half of most of his starts but after halftime, the defenses adjusted and shut him down. The Chiefs lost like 6 or 7 games when they were leading at halftime because of this.

They also had trouble scoring in goal line situations (again, with Thigpen behind center). Part of this was because the right side of the offensive line (the power side) was complete and utter trash but the other part of the equation is that the defenses knew what was coming because Thigpen couldn't read them well enough to throw the ball on the goal line (nor does he possess the accuracy).

I don't think the Chiefs should dump him but it's going to take him years of practice to learn how to read and react under center and quite frankly, it may never happen.

That's not a guy I want starting for my football team.

All Thigpen supporters need to go back to watching Hoosiers, Rudy, and Rocky to satisfy their dream of a no talent underachiever making it to the top. It won't happen with Thigpen. I will place a sig bet with anyone out there that Thigpen will not be a starting QB going into the season under Haley and Pioli.

Ah the Thigpen lovers are back in full force...I knew it was coming sooner or later.

If you think your franchise QB should be a short guy from a tiny school from a spread offense that can't play from under center more power to you, as a strategy it's a loser but hey.

There are guys drafted in the top 10, guys with a million times Thigpens talent that couldn't learn to do what people act like he can learn to do like it's a piece of cake. When you've been doing something for 6+ years it's hard to change it's like trying to change a guys throwing motion.

I agree with you more often than not. We bagged Plummer like crazy around here, but Thigpen and Plummer have similar talents only Thigpen is NOT AS GOOD!!!

Yea Thigpen isn't even Plummer, people get so enamored with running QB's, also people got so caught up in thinking Croyle was it that as soon as Thigpen did anything they were ready to just hand that to him just like they were with Croyle.

These things need to be logically looked at, not just oh shit he's on the Chiefs and he played some he's the future!

I shudder to think if the Chiefs kept herm and drafted Pat White. People would be so excited!!!

Yeah, but in his defense, how many QBs could play under center behind that offensive line? The offensive line got the two previous QBs killed. The spread offense was the only offensive set where any QB had any kind of a fighting chance.

Again, I don't know that he's the answer and you have to bring in a QB to compete. But I think he deserves at least a full offseason before we can start talking about his ceiling. If by the end of the offseason, he's still having problems under center and he's still having accuracy issues, than you quickly cut the cord on the experiment.

1) No QB has been able to play under center with success and without injury since Roaf quit - Thigpen has done the best of all - including Green.

2) Yes, Thigpen could be part of the problem with D's adjusting after halftime. Shouldn't the coaches make adjustments to compensate though? Also, Herm's "Let's run the clock" mentality coming out in the second half sure didn't help the second half.

3) Goal line, this whole team, not just Thigpen has struggled in goal line AND short yardage situations for the last 3 years. Our OL, RB, QB, yound and inexperienced recievers, as well as play-calling all have some impact on that. Truth be known, the Chiefs haven't been good at goal line and short yardage since DV/Saunders/Pre-neck-injury Priest left.


Thigpen is just one of a bunch of players I am wondering how they will perform with a new coaching staff.

If you guys really think the reason they were doing spread shit was the line and not the QB, I'm going to question if you're thinking properly.

What, you mean going with multiple wide-outs instead of keeping extra blockers in doesn't help the offensive line?

(although in fairness, I'd say it was a combination of QB and o-line - rare instance in the last decade where we actually saw a chiefs coordinator trying to exploit strengths and mitigate weaknesses. but chicken shit never turns into chicken soup, no matter how much you stir, and limited QB + limited o-line = limited offense)

There isnt a QB on this roster than has earned or deserves to be on this team at the start of next season...

All of the trash needs taking out...

I would maybe keep Thigpen IF he could complete the most basic out pattern on a consistant basis, but the guy in row 5 has had enough of him knocking over his beer...

The reason they ran the spread offense was because they saw that Thigpen was doing some good things in 2-minute offense drills in practice. So they incorporated it in. Would you deny that the pass protection was 100 times better than it was when any QB was lined up under center? When Thigpen lined up under center, he was running for his life on almost every single play. So regardless of the circumstances leading to it happening, it would be hard for anyone to argue taht any QB would have had much chance playing behind the kind of offensive line that we had. Given that we lost two QBs and were giving up the most sacks in the league before we implemented the spread, there's nothing unusual about this claim.

You know what offense the Steelers ran? It was largely a spread offense too, and for much of the same reasons. Big Ben was getting clobbered, so Arians implemented a lot more spread looks so that Ben wasn't getting killed the minute the ball was snapped.

The other QBs on the team did fine behind this OL with the old offense didn't they.

They won just as many games as Tyler Thigpen did.

so your opinion is that we should just cut Thigpen outright, huh? He wouldn't be on the market for more than 30 seconds if we did that.

I dont give a crap what we do with him, aslong as he isnt under center when the season starts... Wait.... He cant play from under center.. Crap, that just screws up my rebuttle....


Nevermind, I need to work on a better rebuttle, brb, going to have to spread this out, cant work from behind keyboard that well...

Look Thigpen from under center against the Raiders and Falcons was one of the biggest abominations ever witnessed, he was horrendous he would hit defenders with more balls than the receivers, lets not act like this is all about the line and has nothing to do with him.

I'm tired of this underdog fixation.

how many yards and catches between Bowe and Tony?

Why don't these Thigpen lovers SEE THIS???

JFC on a crotch-rocket.

Here is what i like about Thigpen:

1. Hes got decent legs and mobility. He knows how to escape.
2. Hes a decent passer in the spread on routes within the 5-10 yard range.

Thats about it. I dont see much to build on. He cant play under center. The only thing hes proven is that he can be an ok backup.

I dont see the improvement that some guys are talking about?? He was horrible in that Cinci game.

Because logic shits on the underdog fantasy, we're talking about a fanbase that wanted Marc Boerigter to be a superstar and that want turned him into something he wasn't.

boerigter got HURT.

It doesn't change that people acted like he was awesome, it was laughable.

he had a good rookie season and then he got HURT, no one knows how good or bad he would have been

I wouldn't mind Thigpen as the backup..

I hope we get some real talent so I don't have to read posts about how shitty guys are our future and people love them anymore.

I'm just tired of this fanbases fixation with the underdog no talent players.

I keep going back to one thing:

What does Thigpen do well?

What does he do well?

All franchise quarterbacks have at least one area they excel REMARKABLY WELL in.

Thigpen is a great scrambler.

All that and a bag of chips will get you 1 win.

Yeah, I tell ya' Brock; I made it to your post and decided I'd seen enough of the TF Assclown Brigade washing Thigpens balls.

Five more pages of that shit? No thanks. Let's just cut to the heart of the matter:

You all heard the comments from Scott and Clark regarding Gailey "making the best of a bad QB situation", yes?

This is Pioli's baby now. He's picked his coach and we're off and running. From here on out, Clark goes in to hands-off mode, more or less.

That established, Clark has consistently expressed, from the time of his father's passing, his desire for one thing and one thing only in terms of the roster:

A Franchise Quarterback.

Make no mistake; Clark's "request" WILL be met. And it won't be met with Tyler Thigpen.

Bank It!

Threads like this are pointless.

Pioli isnt dumb enough to stake his entire future and reputation on Tyler Thigpen.

My favorite is to hear Tyler Thigpen get upset Herm was fired and now act like Haley will run the offense for him...

Tyler was right to cry about Herm his firing likely ended him as a starter.

You will never get to see how Thigpen does. Competent coaches will never allow it

His arrogance really turns me off.

I can't stand him. He acts like he's some kind of quarterback of the future and has pull in the locker room.

Herm ate his brain.

Herm made all these players on this 2-14 team think they are great players that accomplished something.

Tyler Thigpen talks like the Chiefs were inches from the Super Bowl.

I can't wait to see Pioli and Haley start cutting deadweight.

I want some new busts in here, pronto!

Actually, alot of that is Carl too.

Remember the arrogance of the DV era Chiefs who accomplished exactly nothing, but strutted around like they had multiple ships.

Something that is disconcerting to me is how everyone says Brian Waters is a team leader and he acts like anything good this team does is because of Herm like his comment after Herm was fired

"Where this team goes in the future is due to Herm he built this" or something like that.

I want Tyler to stick around. . . as the third string qb which is all he is

and herm made these guys think they were something they were not. Fact is, this is a bad team that has to find some talent

You know, all this time I thought that was Chocolate Head Jared.

Actually we need to find a lot of talent,not just some

Will future qbs be able to get 18 TDs in 11 starts? He's young and he's had one season under his belt and yet people are already throwing him under the bus. Ok lets see, with this O line, we have gotten 3 qbs in the injury reserve including the one who damn near ended up being a vegetable. Yet you want us to keep running plays from under center.

He didnt have training camp so we had to make him comfortable. From what I see, he did pretty well. Two people with 1000+ yards and yet he's a bad qb.

How do we know he cant play under center? It's not like he had even an average qb coach to help him. He was thrust into the starting position so what choice did he have? Hmmm, 2 players had just been killed with the o-line, we were one of the worst offenses in the league yet this player came in and made us good and yet he's the worst qb you guys have ever seen.

Have you thought that under good coaching he'd atleast be decent? Or are you saying that Herm really did make bad players look good?

I thought it was Tony Danza.

Do you trust Scot Pioli? Will you shut up when he brings in Thigpens replacement?

Well now you know.

The Raider and Falcons games say hello about him playing under center..

You are putting all your argument into stats when if you'd actually judge him on his games you'd get a different view. 18-11 the guy could have literally had 10-15 more balls picked what if he was 18-21? Thigpen had a magical stroke of luck where defenders kept dropping INT's that won't continue ask Damon Huard...

54% completion rate in an offense that is predicated on the QB making easy throws speaks volumes to how inaccurate he is.