He doesn't understand the value of the QB position....

But on another note if you want to talk about that Texas thing, give me Texas players that have succeeded in the NFL in the Mack Brown era.

I'll play along and argue with you, Sackofgoo.

Drafting a QB is smart because:

1) VALUE. The talent/draft position ratio heavily favors one of these two QBs this year.

2) We can do it. We have the money to pay Cassel for a year and have him start. If it works out, then great. If not, then we needed a new QB anyway, and luckily we grabbed one of these two guys, who are INFINITELY better than the QB class in next year's draft.

3) After years of Gannon, Grbac, Bono, hell, even Montana in his old age, don't you think this franchise deserves a QB that the rest of the NFL fears? We arguably have never had one. It's about ****ing time to get one. Cassel (according to even his supporters) is NOT that guy.

There. That's my reasoning. Tell me why Michael Oher makes more sense. Where will he play? RT? LT? G? WR? We have to move Albert if he plays LT. We're getting ****ed if we put him in at RT.

But GOD, at least we didn't PISS AWAY another pick on a damn QB, especially a Latino guy who plays for USC!!!!!!! (your words, not mine, btw)

Casey Hampton...good player from Texas under Mack Brown.

And we have 1...

We should do the list, good, disappointing, total busts.

Leonard Davis

Drafted to be a stud LT that would anchor the Cardinals' line. Is now a guard for the Cowboys.

I'd call that a disappointment.

Two national championships and a Heisman say yes. Because, at this point, that's all you've got to go on. Besides, I hear that Florida is going to be running pro sets this season and have been working on Tebows release. We'll see. Until both play in the NFL and establish themselves, it's hard to judge other than guess. I think Sanchez is an excellent pro prospect, but he doesn't give you anything that Cassel doesn't other than being smaller, less athletic, substantially less experience, has had minor injury problems and will take a few years to understand and play effectively in the NFL. I'd take Cassel over Sanchez or Stafford in a heart beat because of that. He gives the Chiefs a young quarterback that can step in a play right now. Neither Stafford or Sanchez provide that, and neither has anything that Cassel can't provide better at this point.

Okie dokie, let's look at the last ten years:

1998: No UT player drafted in the first round
1999: Ricky Williams - Dope smoker deluxe, but the dude could run and run well.
2000: No UT player drafted in first round
2001: Leonard Davis & Casey Hampton - Both Pro Bowlers
2002: Mike Williams & Quentin Jammer - Williams a bust, Jammer has started every game but two for the past six seasons for the Chargers
2003: No UT player drafted in first round
2004: Roy Williams & Marcus Tubbs - Williams in the Pro Bowl; Tubbs a bust out of the league.
2005: Cedric Benson & Derrick Johnson - Benson put up his most productive season last season, and Johnson has been the Chiefs starting LB since he was drafted
2006: Vince Young & Michael Huff - Young looked good for a bit, then snap. Jury is still out. Huff started every game first two seasons, then got benched five games into last season.
2007: Michael Griffin & Aaron Ross - Griffin started all games last season, and ended up with 75 tackles, 11 pdf and seven interceptions. Looks to be a stud. Ross started 15 games last season, 52 tackles, 8 pdf, 3 interceptions and a td on one of those.
2008: No UT player taken in the first round.

Doesn't look all that bad to me. A couple of Pro Bowl guys, a bunch of solid players and starters and just two certified busts. Seems like the UT boys have actually done pretty good. So, what's the problem again with Texas players?

Leonard Davis went to the Pro Bowl last year. I don't know what your definition of bust is, but that isn't mine.

He was an All Pro in 2007.

If your top 5 pick LT become a guard, that sucks period.

It's funny to see it argued any other way.

An all pro doesn't suck, period.

No value if he doesn't play. And neither will beat out Cassel.

So, we have Cassel and you want to draft a QB? Good pick. Again. They won't beat him out. No chance whatsoever. Waste of a pick. It's not like the Chiefs don't have any other needs, because you know we just got Cassel, so you want to pick an unproven rookie QB to sit for a year or more?

Really? Cassel isn't that guy? And you are absolutely positive that if we draft St. Sanchez or Stafford, that he's going to be the guy? And you know that how?

So you think that by pissing away our first pick in the draft on an unproven rookie QB when we just picked up Cassel, who just went 11-5, who is an athletic 6'5", 235 lb. that everyone who is anyone that knows anything about the game thinks is going to be a continuation of what he showed up in NE is "reason?"

But I'm sure that in your hypothetical, that Sanchez or Stafford, holding that clipboard on the sideline, watching Cassel run for his life after the Cheifs right side of the line, particularly the RT let yet another end or linebacker through virtually untouched. I'm sure that even considering addressing the offensive line is completely idiotic, especially when we could have this kick ass rookie QB looking good holding a clipboard and fetching coffee for the coach. I tell you what, if not getting my quarterback killed for the third season in a row means putting Albert at RT with someone like Monroe, Smith(s) or Oher at LT versus a rookie qb standing on the sidelines, I'll take the offensive line option all day long.

Actually, those are your words. I never said "Latino" or "USC." However, I did say that if the Chiefs were so amazingly ignorant to waste (and I mean a complete and utter waste) their first round pick on either Sanchez or Stafford, that they would be essentially pissing away the pick, especially considering how many other needs could be addressed with that pick.

You wanted to play. Game over. You lost.

There are Cassel backers right here on this forum saying he'll never be Peyton Manning/Tom Brady, but more of a Matt Hasselbeck type QB. I'm more confident Stafford or Sanchez has the POTENTIAL to be a top 3 QB in the NFL than does Cassel.

You don't value the future of a long-term prospect at QB? No, Cassel will likely start this year. If he does well, he will start the year after that, too. But if he's mediocre, we're pretty much stuck with him. I don't know of many other good opportunities to find a QB like Stafford or Sanchez, where we can find ourselves with a draft position high enough to get the guy we want.

It's not even for your ****ing team. The Cardinals invested a top 5 pick in an offensive lineman that sucked balls when he played for them. And he LEFT your team to go play for a rival, when after switching positions, he all of a sudden played at a pro bowl level? For the other TEAM?

That's not a bust, sure. But it's a ****ing disappointment of a draft pick. That would be like Darren McFadden getting cut by Al Davis and signing with us, where he begins the career he never had with the Raiders, breaking Emmitt Smith's all-time rushing yards record.

That sure as hell is a bust.

Well, gee, now that you mention that Cassel will get beheaded by defenses if he doesn't have a proper line protecting him, that makes a lot of sense. QB drafters just didn't think of that possibility. :rolleyes:

Cassel doesn't need a first round pick at every line position to have a good line. This draft is rich in Oline talent into the deeper rounds. Besides, Oher needs a lot of work, and likely wouldn't have a good rookie season. So much for your, "I want to protect my QB next season" argument. If that weren't enough, there's also the fact that YOU DON'T ****IN SPEND A TOP 5 PICK IN THE DRAFT ON A RIGHT TACKLE. You just don't. Ever.

Lastly, you were the guy talking about how sexy Mark Sanchez is, and how people like him because they're gay for him. I know you're not being serious, but can you at least not be serious in a way that will be funny? Otherwise you're just spouting nonsense, which makes you look really stupid.

So much the better.

And Huff won the Thorpe award, those things may as well be given out according to stats. He also ran a 4.34, so that combo of awards and athleticism isn't exactly foolproof, especially when the player is as raw as Orakpo. Explain to me, why is he so raw? Doesn't he practice?

Saccogoo 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, Aaron Curry, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Ricky Williams is a bust for the Saints, considering that they gave up the entire ****ing draft for him.

It's a good thing USC had a strong 2008 draft class, otherwise they aren't much better than Texas.

2006
Reggie Bush - Hasn't had more than 600 yards a season and can't break 4.0 ypc avg.
Leinart - Backup

2005
Mike Williams - Is he even in the league anymore?
Mike Patterson - Good pick.

2004
Keniche Udeze - disappointing play before struck with a horrible disease.

2003
Carson Palmer - One of the highest ranked QB's when leaving college. Doesn't have a single playoff win. Only led his team to the playoffs once.
Troy Polamalu - Excellent player. The only pick to really hit.

2000
RJ Soward - Who?

Not bad, but I'd go like this.

Sanchez
Stafford
Tradedown
Tradedown
Tradedown

They hired ****her Gunningham.

It's a mistake to underestimate the stupidity of the Lions mangement.

By Saccogoo's logic, Tony Mandarich is not a bust because he had mild success as a guard for the Colts.

No offense intended, but you're a ****ing idiot of epic proportions.

ROFL

Close for me...

Sanchez
Stafford
Crabtree
Tradedown
Tradedown

:LOL:

Dude, you know that these guys don't look past 2009. It's like the NFL will cease to exist after this season.

I'm enjoying watching the Curry-or-bust crowd paint themselves into a corner. They're pinning their hopes on a GM that is impossible to get a read on picking an ILB in the Top 3 for the first time in 20 years.

Come draft day, if it's ANYONE but Curry, there are going to be a lot of sandy ****ing vags around here. Wait, there already are...

I think people understand the QB position plenty.

I also think that common sense tells you that the Chiefs aren't taking a QB third overall after trading a 2nd rounder for one just months ago.

I'm not putting QBs in my top 5 because I don't think there is a realistic chance it happens.

1. Curry
2. Crabtree
3. Raji
4. Smith
5. Brown

If we don't draft Stafford/Sanchez or trade down, there's going to be a mass pile on of itchy assholes in here as well.

C'mon, Frank.

You're too ****ing smart to fall for this shit.

Look around.

The QB guys have acknowledged that it's a long shot - and have listed other players they'd prefer if Pioli chose not to go QB at #3.

I've yet to read a SINGLE post where a QB backer has painted himself into a corner by claiming QB-or-bust.

Whereas MANY members of the Curry crowd have done EXACTLY that - say that there is NO POSSIBLE WAY we take a QB at #3, and say that Curry is the ONLY player worth that pick.

How anyone can think they know what Scott Pioli WILL do on draft day is amazing to me. The guy is as unpredictable as they come. But according to some on here, there is a ZERO% chance that he takes a QB, and it's a stone cold LOCK that we take Curry.

Foolish.

Who said Curry is the ONLY player worth the #3 pick?

Read much?

Use the search function, I'm not doing the work because you choose to ignore people.

There have been numerous comments about how Curry is the only pick worth #3, and that everyone else would be a reach.

Shouldn't be hard to find.

That list is sad. And your analysis of the '05 selections is intellectually dishonest at best.

What team was Benson with last year? Where was he selected? Oh, wait, DJ's soft ass needs another Twinkie.

Seriously? There are way more people saying that the QBs are the only people worth #3 than people saying Curry is the only one worth #3.

that is the most likely scenario. The chiefs will draft Curry because there won't be any trade down offers that are worth it. I won't thrilled with the pick, but I will be happy with it, because I think that he will be a contributor for many years. I also think that he has more upside and versatility than many people give him credit for. He's the type of guy that I want on my team.

I must have missed where Cassel signed his new 6-year deal. :hmmm:

ROFL

Like pissing away that pick on another LT when we just got Albert is any better.

And Beanie Wells? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You need freaking glasses, dude. More than half of those guys are complete BUSTS.

And I'm sorry, but you're putting Leonard Davis in the "good" category. That's flat-out laughable.

B
 

I don't think Curry is the only way you go. I think there are numerous directions (I actually wouldn't mind Crabtree). I know Pioli is unpredictable, but with the way he gushed over Cassel in his intro PC, and then giving up a 2nd rounder for him, I just can't believe he would take a QB.

You'll see on April 25th at around 1 how much of the "longshot" QB guys there were that are all bent out of shape that we don't have Stafford or Sanchez.

Good, so USC should be avoided too.

Nothing you posted here changes one goddamn thing about TEXAS.

I just don't get why there HAS to be any choice.

Some of the arguments being thrown around here, by BOTH sides, are just mind-boggling.

I feel just like you do - it's hard for me to believe that they'd take a QB considering that they acquired Cassel and particularly HOW they acquired Cassel.

But to sit here and say "they will not take a QB. Cassel is the man" after all the other smoke and mirrors we've been through this offseason, let alone the fact that the guy doesn't have a contract? Seems like pretty shallow reasoning to me.

What smoke and mirrors?

I'll be honest:

I'll be disappointed, but I sure as hell won't be bent out of shape.

Personally, Pioli could have killed all this speculation by doing one thing:

Signing Cassel to a long-term deal.

But he hasn't.

Don't think for a second that only a few message board posters here at CP have noticed.

Exactly.

I shouldn't say smoke and mirrors, so much as NO real information coming from the team.

It's all been rumor and innuendo and in the end, most of the moves have come completely out of left field.

Exactly.

If Cassel was still with the Patriots as we near the draft... as through history most franchised players would be at this time... and we would have aquired his services say a day or two before the draft, I might be more inclined to agree with you on the common sense thing.

However, 1 day into the Free Agency/Trading period is pretty unique for players moving teams for draft picks in this scenario.

Nothing is going to shock me... at leat I don't think it will... on draft day. That would include drafting a QB at #3 and keeping Cassel, drafting a QB at #3 and trading Cassel, or not drafting a QB at all and going with Cassel.

If it winds up being option 3, five years from now I will be much more disappointed if a Sanchez/Stafford selection would have been the route to go long term, and we missed out on either option 1 or 2.

There will be more draft picks and more drafts to fill out the roster. Super Bowl franchise QB types are very hard to find. LB's and O-linemen not so much.

Have any Franchise Players signed long-term deals yet?

They usually don't this early..

Most franchised players are still with the team that tagged them. That usually happens because they can't work out a deal, whereas you'd think since we traded for Cassel we want to lock him up. Maybe it's a long negotiation, a stubborn agent, who knows

The ones that were retained by their own teams, such as Gross for the Panthers. I think there were a couple of more, and if I am not mistaken, Cassel is the only one who has switched teams at this point.

I've only found one example so far, so bear with me.

John Abraham was trade from the Jets to the Falcons on March 21st. He signed a new deal with the Falcons on March 23rd.

Gross wasn't the Panthers franchise player...

DUH.

The Chiefs tagged Jared Allen on February 28th. He was traded to the Vikings on April 22nd/23rd. He signed a new deal with the Vikings two days later.

Beat me to it.

Champ Bailey was traded to the Broncos on March 3rd or 4th after being designated the Redskins franchise player. He signed a new deal that same day.

So I've found 3 examples so far and all 3 of them signed long-term deals within 48 hours of being traded.

So much for the idea that Cassel is THE guy and there's no other possibility.

I've said this before and it got ignored, but I'm pretty sure every franchise player traded has had a long term deal worked out with the new team before the trade was finalized. It just wasn't signed until a day or two later usually.

My fault. He was going to be but signed right before the deadline.

And then there was Cassel, who didn't even know he'd been traded until the day AFTER.

I'd be shocked if KC takes Sanchez at #3 and keeps Cassel.

I could see a 1 year tutor situation.

I would be too.

But I wouldn't at all be shocked if the Chiefs took Sanchez and TRADED Cassel, or even traded Sanchez.

I honestly wouldn't be shocked by anything Pioli does.

I'm still not convinced he didn't trade for Cassel to get through 2009, let a young QB sit for a year, then trade Cassel in 2010.

Or, as mentioned, they could pick one of the QB's and trade Cassel on draft day.

They could pick one of the QB's and trade THEM on draft day.

He could take a non-QB at #3.

He could trade down.

Nothing would surprise me.

Yep!

And that includes drafting an OT at #3. I wouldn't be very excited about the pick... would rather that be part of a trade down scenario... but I won't be stunned if Monroe is the pick. Especially since that selection seems to be picking up steam with the pundits.

Good info htismage and Rustshack, I wasn't sure how common this was and boom I've got my answer.

A new GM asking an owner to pay someone 15 million to babysit for one year is pretty far fetched.

Stafford
Raji
Curry
Maclin
Brown


I don't think Sanchez is as good as others think, but I'll gladly eat the crow, if the chiefs take him and he does good and all. OT are better and would def. be in the top five, but don't know that we'd do that. If it's WR I know its homeristic, but maclin has speed, can return, loves to play the game. Crabtree, again - not my pick, but I'll eat the crow if I'm wrong.

I concur, in fact - we should be able to unite under this thought. Pioli is bringing many options to the table for draft day, this season, and building options for next season already. I personally, love it

Not when you have $50 million in cap space and you have to get up the minimum amount spent.

I think it's an effort of fair trade between the new GM and his new boss.

"let me bring in my guy, we pay heavier than I really want at this time, but if he does well, we can trade/sign him later." It's realistic, leaves options options open, and betters the team, more than signing matt to a long term deal and having something bad happen.

Spend money on guys that have a chance of being on the team when it is ready to make a run, or waste it on a guy you plan on flipping in one year?? Tough one. NO GM wants to waste 15 million dollars.

It wouldn't be wasted... Cassel would be our starting QB for the year...

What guys are left out there that are worth spending big money on for more than one season? Peppers is going to cost draft picks. Holt? Any players on our own roster that should be given contract extentions? You have to be careful with setting presidence with the last one.

I agree and the days leading up to the draft is going to be exciting.

With that said I wouldn't read too much into the Chiefs not signing Cassel to an extension. The current CBA is about to expire and there will be a strike so I am sure that plays into it plus in those other examples those teams needed to get cap space so a renegoitated deal makes sense. The Chiefs are probably at the minimum required cap space so the urgency isn't there to get a deal done plus they can always franchise him next year again.

Well, NOT signing him to a new deal after they traded for him is also pretty far-fetched, considering I couldn't find one example of it every happening before.

By the same token, we should read too LITTLE into the Chiefs not signing him to a deal.

This idea that Cassel is the starting QB and there's no other possibility is absurd and will be absurd until the day he signs.

I seem to remember a guy named Hasselbeck being in the Super Bowl a few years back, with a legit chance to win it baring some questionable calls. If Cassel is that level of mediocrity, I'll take it.

And again, I want to know what makes you think that either Sanchez or Stafford has the potential to be a TOP 3 quarterback in this league, let alone be better than Cassel, who just went 11-5 in his first year as a starter? Please, pretty please with sugar on top, enlighten me.

Who is this "WE?" Seems like the guys in charge of the Chiefs were pretty pleased to get Cassel. Seems like McDaniels preferred Cassel over a young, cannon-armed "franchise" quarterback. Seems like everyone prior to the Chiefs trade for Cassel that knew anything about football stated that if a team wanted to get a qb of the future for this next season, Matt Cassel was the guy because you didn't want to risk it on an unproven rookie. So, I ask again, what qualities does either Stafford or Sanchez possess that makes them a more attractive option than Matt Cassel at quarterback?