Kellen Winslow is a Chief?

This.

Well I'm glad you're having a good time.

What pick at #55 is going to make the Chiefs better than having Tony Gonzalez? is going to make Matt Cassel better?

The drafturbators are quick to give away all-pro caliber players if it means a more thrilling draft weekend.

I, however, would like to see our QB given the luxury of such an outstanding player to help him develop into the pro bowl caliber QB Chiefs fans and GM Scott Pioli envision.

I know Cassel succeeding would be terrible for all of the drafturbating Sanchez fans...

There you go. I'd make that trade.

I don't see Clark letting this happen. The price is right, but that being said - he is our only reliable pass catcher... I mean if we could get a Coffman or somebody - but then what is the up side? Salary?

Could send them Dorsey and TG for their first that would be the only way we could get a first out of them.
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If we trade Gonzalez for ONLY #55 and use that pick on Coffman I am going to hate this world.

I wouldn't make that deal. What kind of a message does it send? On one hand we're signing guys that make it look like we want the veteran presences around to lead the way by example and start turning this into a culture of winning now. So trading away Gonzo for a draft pick would be counterproductive to that, and it is highly doubtful that any second round pick would have the same type of impact that Gonzo would have on the offense as a perrenial pro bowler. The only way to make the trade is if you are 100% that the guy is over the hill.

Dude, it's not all about next year. Sure, part of it is, but really it's about long term value. You're trading for a good chance at getting a player who will be able to help to franchise for the next 10 years, not two.

you'd trade Gonzalez for Coffman (when we already have Cottam)?

No ****ing way that happens.

Here's a qquestion.

When were Mike Vrabel and Zach Thomas ever whiney ass bitches?

I dunno, maybe Pioli is thinking about the future of the franchise rather than its fortunes for this season?

Thank God the front office now knows they don't have to act like next year and beyond doesn't exist.

exactly. Give Cassel a go to guy as the WRs get use to him.

Now if Cottom starts look good and stays healthy end of 2009 we could see a future TE playing at high level.
I still want Gonzo going out as a Chief. Traditional story.

Why? Coffman's fantastic.

so having Tony Gonzalez for a year, two (or maybe three) won't help Matt Cassel develop? That's not a long term goal?

And what are the odds a guy at #55 is a pro bowl caliber player? What are the odds he serves the Chiefs for 10 years?

10% and 1%?

Trust me, I'm thinking long term. If having two years of Tony Gonzalez helps Matt Cassel become a pro bowl caliber QB, I think those two years of service are invaluable to the franchise and much more productive than the slim chance the guy at #55 is anything more than a cheap, semi-productive starter who is valuable because his cap number is low.

Let's be honest...building through the draft is necessary because you can pay the guys drafted after the 1st round peanuts and half of the time they are as good, if not better, than the established starter who costs millions that has plenty of wear and tear on his legs.

75% of the guys drafted in the 2nd round end up on another team for their 2nd contract (I have no idea if this is true but I bet it's close to being right).

I think you'd have to catch at least 10 passes in a season before I would consider you the heir apparent to the tight end position.

That's not the question. The question is whether having 1-2 years of Tony Gonzalez is worth more than the entire Chiefs career of whoever they pick at #55.

Guys like Jamon Meredith, Paul Kruger, Eric Wood, Jarron Gilbert could all conceivably be there and could be a big part of raising this team to contender status in the next couple of years.

and Tony Gonzalez is an all-pro...and we drafted a TE with a 1st day pick last year...

If we're trading an all-pro TE...we better have confidence in Cottam to be the starter (pick up a cheap #2 blocking TE via free agency/late in the draft/rookie free agent) and we better fill a different need with #55...

If we swap Gonzalez for Coffman it will be an epic fail on Pioli's part.

don't talk to true fans,homers, whatever about any season after this year. on February 28, 2010, Matt Cassel and the rest of the chiefs will melt like ice cream in the sun. there is no next year. we should not be trading away players. in fact we should be trading all our picks Dan Snyder style to load up for our 2009 super bowl run.

Why would he catch more than 10 passes when we have Tony Gonzalez? Cottam was drafted to be the future after Gonzalez...

I don't think teams win Super Bowl's by drafting 1st day tight ends every year.

If we trade Gonzalez fine...but if we take a TE with the pick we acquired trading him shoot me in the ****ing face.

A major reason why the Chiefs have been so bad is their repeated misses on guys in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

You have to get impact players in these rounds, and Carl's ineptness has definitely skewed the perception of some of the overall importance of these draft positions.

which makes us competitive the next couple years..no?

After that our younger guys have developed and we sign guys/draft guys to take their places. Just like the Pats

1. The old, reerun regime drafted him.

2. It was only a third round pick.

3. It's a sunk cost. It doesn't matter when or where he was picked. Either he's the future or he's not.

4. I'm sure you could find plenty of takers for the shooting in the ****ing face

The drafturbators rather see us win 1 game than 10 games...they think the playoffs are pointless without a Super Bowl win...

I don't see why.

Young team...a playoff berth would be awesome. A win would be FANTASTIC. Nothing wrong with winning 10 games this year and continuing to build behind a 26 year old QB and a defense with tons of young talent.

Because Thomas and Vrabel and Goff play positions where we need stopgap talent. Love Tony Gonzalez. And I know he's an impact tight end. But a team can function with average talent at the position. Signing those guys doesn't mean the team wants to win now. What it's saying is that this team has a million different needs so we're going to fill a few positions with 1-2 year fixes to give us a few less immediate needs to look for.

I would prefer not to trade Gonzalez. But at the same time, I don't know that he fits into the team's long-term plans.

The old, reerun regime, ACCORDING TO EVERYONE, had a hell of a draft last year. How could anyone write off Cottam yet?

Which would be better for the long-term of Matt Cassel, TG or a brand new second round RT

I also think your perceptions have been skewed by CP, I think we can expect better drafting.

And the guys that aren't resigned are usually the ones who suck.

That's not true.

If you're looking for LBs, Guards, Centers, or RBs, #55 is a sweet spot for those positions. You can get some really good players at that level if you're willing to look. And those are all positions where the Chiefs could use some help.

Last post in this thread because I truly don't care anymore...

If we trade Gonzalez, fine. I know we'll get a good deal because it really doesn't make any sense for us to trade a guy like TG when we are adding veteran talent and trying to win games starting NOW.

If we trade him and draft a TE with the pick we acquired for him (when we already have a young guy with loads of raw talent), we're ****ing stupid. I have faith that won't happen, though.

and if anyone thinks we can't compete in the West next year, I disagree with you. I'm entitled to that opinion, so **** off =)

True, very good draft. One in twenty is not a good record, though.

No.
We think just getting to the playoffs with no real hope of ever gitting to the SB, Martyocre style, is pointless.

I have no problem with getting to the playoffs as long as we are building to a SB.

should a rebuilding team take a 2nd round pick for a 33 yr old TE who has given us all his best years?

uh....yeah


if you really care about Tony, let him go...

"take...these broken wings...and learn to fly again, learn to live so freeeeeee....." [/karaoke]

What does where he was drafted, or in what year he was drafted, entitle Cottam to? Either he's good enough or he isn't.

They have a year's worth of film on him. Maybe they don't like him. Or maybe they would like to have two good tight ends. Or maybe they will simply take the best value they see for each pick.

I would hate to see Tony go... but I think WR's are a hell of a lot more important in Haley's offense than TE's... plus we have Cottam now... bottom line I'd still rather keep Gonzo.

ROFL

other than common sense, nothing i guess....

we would have essentially traded a 33yr old TE for a 26yr old starting QB


that is ****ing brilliant...and proof the franchise now understands how you build a team....

seriously, awesome

Rep. :clap:

2nd rounder you better take it

Here's the nice thing about Pioli.

He doesn't give a **** about Gonzalez.

Peterson cared way too much about him, and even though there was a deal on the table with the Falcons LAST SEASON, it didn't get done. Because Carl allowed Gonzalez to turn it down. This was confirmed by Jay Glazer.

But if Pioli wants Gonzalez shipped out, adios. I doubt he would consider his feelings.

I'm not buying it until I hear it from Athan.

I feel like draft picks are so overrated these days. In the last 5 NFL drafts not counting last seasons, we only have a couple players left on the roster....and most are not even in the league.

Anything less than a first for Gonzalez, and I keep him on the Chiefs.
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Even a low-round #2 is a hell of an offer for Gonzalez.
Forces you to immediately find another reliable pass-catcher though.
Might not be the worst thing. We do have Engram. He won't be as productive as Gonzalez, but he's got really reliable hands and with a legitimate #2 I think we'd be okay.

I really wanna see Gonzalez retire as a Chief, but as a pure football move this would definitely get me to thinking.

We'd get that #2 back and still have an outside shot at trading down.

One more thing for Tony to talk to Oprah about.

They just picked up Thomas and could be trading Tony G? The unpredictablity of this new regime is thrilling and scary at the same time. SCHWING

I'l be fine either way. I see the obvious value of picking up a 2nd. I also love watching Tony play and think he's got some good years left. Not gonna get worked up about this one.

I could care less how old Tony G is, he's still at the top of his game. Keep him.

Coffman is going to be a stud TE in the NFL.

I side with milkman, OTW, and others who say a 2nd round pick is more than fair. Do the deal, and do it now.

With that in mind...

You've got to give Carl Peterson credit for not trading Gonzo away last year for a 3rd. :D

#55 ain't gonna' get it; NEXT!

I'm sorry, but yes it will.

TE is already a de-valued position. There is no TE in the league that is worth a 1st rounder.

For a 33-year-old, it makes sense that a 2nd rounder is the best possible compensation we can get for a player that won't be here when we're good.

Guess I should sell my Tony G. Chiefs Memorabilia soon before it devalues like my Signed LJ jersey and my Okoye 8X10...

KWII and Tony G in the same division(for 2s) would make the NFC South interesting.

I will say this.

If the Chiefs tarde Tony G, they have to burn at least one major pick, and maybe as much as two picks total, on WR and/or TE in this draft.

We cannot leave Cassel with one weapon.

SHIT! and Shockey

Yeah, and I stand a better chance of breaking the sound barrier in a Mustang than I do in a Civic.

Gonzalez for DE Jamaal Anderson 6'6" 282lbs.

;) Exactly!!

I'd probably do that deal, you move his contract, you can get by with an ok TE, not to mention we have a coach and a GM from teams that never really used the TE as a top option as a receiver.

There's going to be some very good players on the board in this years 2nd round.

Of course I already see the over attachment to Gonzalez in the thread, you know inspite of his constant whining.

But...but who will Pickpen throw to???

You're right though; under Haley and sooner rather than later, the TE position will be less about receiving, IF we choose to go on his past offenses as an example.

I don't want to see him go...ugh

Personally I think people in this market get attached to players like Gonzalez because we haven't won anything so it's all that's left.

There have been 13 tight ends drafted in the first round since 2000. Seems to me that half the league thinks a tight end is worth a first-round pick.

Granted, in Tony's case age is a factor, but then again if he plays four more years and makes 350 catches, that's worth a lot.

i say give Gonzo to them for their 1st and 4th

NO ONE is giving up a 1st round pick for a player that's 33 years old.

:bong:

Yeah, I'd agree with that, other than maybe a really good QB on a team that's a QB short of a strong run.

Jason Taylor went for a 2nd and he does something that is much more valuable than Gonzalez a team offering you a 2nd for Gonzalez is actually really high.

A 1st for TG is a pipe dream. If they could get a 2nd for him, they should be all over it.

How much of that was BECAUSE of Tony Gonzales, though? I think the position as a whole holds alot less value, we've just been spoiled because we've been watching the greatest ever.

I'm of the belief you draft TE's in the mid rounds unless you are picking at the very end of the 1st and there's an athletic freak there.

I might consider using a low 1st on Jared Cook this year if I was a GM.

Shhh, don't let milkman catch you typing that...:)

I love that pic of Powers Booth lol. Everytime a player makes a demand, or 'else' etc, this pic always comes to mind.

Later TG. You've been awesome, but it's time for the fans to want a SB, not nice guys; specifially a 'nice guy' who's the best player on the team at the TE spot.

I hope he moves on and gets a ring; could care less if he 'stays' a chief. he'll enter the hall as a Chief and my great memories will be of his as a Chief.

Let's check out the pattern.

2000s - 13 TEs in first round, 13 in second round (9 years, generally 32 picks per year)
1990s - 9 in first round, 17 in second round (10 years, generally 30 picks per year)
1980s - 5 in first round, 12 in second round (10 years, roughly 29 picks per year)
1970s - 16 in first round, 16 in second round (10 years, roughly 27 picks per year)

One might ponder that, once upon a time, tight ends were valuable in an era where defenses could knock receivers off their routes. When the new rules changes came about in 1979 to limit contact with receivers, it killed the tight end as a first-round position through the 80s.

So why have tight ends been making a resurgence since the low tide of the 80s? If anything, the rules changes have continued to make them less valuable, as defenders aren't allowed to touch quick little receivers.

One theory might be the growth of west coast offenses and short, high-percentage passing games. A tight end might be a sure-handed guy who can thrive in the land of linebackers. Another might be the rise of zone blitzes and more sophisticated pass rushes, where a good tight end who can block and catch has become more valuable.

And of course in the past ten years, we've had the rise of the freaks like Tony G., who are basically a receiver inflated up to 250 pounds.

Interesting pattern, but I think it's undeniable that the rules changes of 1979 killed the position for a while.

No we won't. Our #2 was at the 34th position. The one we will be getting is at 55. Quite a bit of distance there.

Shockey is overrated.

Far-fetched, but bold.

:clap:

That's kinda what I meant.

A high 2nd. Not 55.

Yep; up the ante bitches!