but only one of those guys has won anything.... and thats the stat I'm concerned about it..... If Cassel wins games for the Chiefs than I won't worry what Sanchez or anyone else is doing

The Broncos are 100x times better then KC right now, I'm not afraid to admit that.

But I'd still take a 1 legged Cutler or Cassel over Orton anyday.

See here was the thing, when comparing them Sanchez is the guy I would call the gamer while Cassel was the stats guy from the NE system with Moss and Welker.

No, it comes down to the Chiefs had a chance to get a QB that looks like he is going to be a star. Instead they signed Cassell. And that's what this thread is about, which is why I'm discussing it.

...and that's why you would be a horrible coach.

Valid point.... and if that proves to be right its just the same shit we have been dealing with forever :banghead:

So basically as an outsider you agree with me, so why do a good portion of the people call me a dumbass for my take on this?

I agree with you on that. But again, based on Cassel's experience in New England, why are people so convinced he doesn't have an "it" factor of his own? He's a smart QB, a workout/film room freak, and players seem to really respond well to him. And he did very well in the final, very important stretch in the second half of the season with the Pats.

I really like Sanchez and I think the Chiefs could have gotten a good QB out of him. I always liked his upside better than Cassel. I wouldn't mind having taken Sanchez over Cassel. What I don't understand is when some people make Cassel out to be some loser QB with zero upside and that the franchise made some monumental ****-up for not taking him.

If Cassel ends up being a very good QB, nobody's going to talk about the trade, just as nobody talks about the Giants "****ing up" by taking Eli instead of Ben Roethlisberger.

If you take Pioli out of the picture and look at the last two seasons, I feel better as a fan going with the QB who has the ability to fire up everyone around him, even if he is a rook.
At this stage, I take the gamer over "math football".

Same reason the homers on the Mane get all upset with me. Because they are homers.

Mainly because Eli has always shown something he led a game winning drive against the Broncos in his rookie year...think about this I believe Eli and Cassel are roughly the same age...that's a problem. We're wanting Cassel to become something guys that age already are.

Also a big red flag to me is a guy like Cassel if he had it as the favorite going in to be the SC QB..he should have beaten out Leinart but he didn't.

Now that is true.

I don't disagree with you that Sanchez is probably the better QB and probably will be.

I'm just getting pissed off at how much people will exaggerate their points to suggest that Cassel isn't going to amount to anything, many going as far as to suggest that Cassel's mistakes in Oakland damn his entire future with the Chiefs.

It's ridiculous to root against your existing QB just because you didn't get the guy you wanted. Not saying you're doing that. But there are plenty that are.

jebus ****ing christ
if we had drafted him
he would have gotten killed or ruined behind this oline

nobody buy nobody is a good QB inna body cast

QB"S don't matter at our level we suck that hard
we need a line

shit Donkey fans know the importance of having a franchise QB so they probably understand it a little better since we have not had one since Len Dawson :doh!:

You mean the one they traded?

What in the hell are people hanging shit on Cassel? It boggles my mind. This team sucks. Flat out sucks. If we had any other quarterback in the league, we would still suck. Cassel has not shown he is a problem thus far. He made a boneheaded play at the end of the second half against Oakland, but all players do something stupid at times.

I'm not rooking against Cassel I try to be objective. But at the same time I also won't change my view on a player because he puts on the Arrowhead I always remain objective.

If you remember I didn't wanna trade for Cassel, so can't be like oh I love Cassel when I didn't when he wasn't on our team.

He'll either prove himself or he won't.

It just to me feels like the same shit over and over, we can't possibly draft a QB we have to trade for some other league dynasty teams backup. It use to be the 49ers now it's the Pats.

thats included yes ROFL

Meh, have you forgotten the Griese and Plummer years? The last time we were one of the top teams in the AFC was with Plummer, though. I don't know-I'm starting to like Orton. He's making good decisions and his arm isn't as bad as I thought it was. He's like a Griese/Plummer hybrid.

What I don't get, is that with the rest of the offense being so suspect, WHY do you go for a system QB when you CLEARLY don't have the ****ing supporting cast that you need to make it work?

With either of the rooks as drafted, you get a bigger pass from the fans because people can see the upside, and they know the rest is yet to be built.

This whole thing is weird.

I like Cassel and I hope he turns out to be everything we want... but as a lifelong Chiefs fan it always seems like the move we didn't make usually is the right one... so I'm just pessimistic i guess

If you think any QB would get killed here, we coulda sat Sanchez for a year at 22 you can do that, you can't sit Cassel though he's 27. Hell we coulda signed Garcia or Kitna to start for a year till you felt Sanchez or the team was ready for it.

How is Cassel a system QB?

The only QB who could thrive in the Chiefs' system right now are running QBs like Vick.

It eerily reminded me of Elvis Grbac.

And you call me a homer?

Is it ok to judge Casell for his past as being a backup to Brady, but you are willing to overlook the history with Orton?

yeah but those guys had to make you appreciate Elway and how ****ing irritatingly good he was :cuss:

I think he means with the Pats and I'll be the first to say I think a ton of QB's could have done what he did for the Pats last year.

Didn't you say as much in an earlier post?

Yep. That's the very definition of a Franchise Quarterback. Blame your team mates for every loss. Run to the new HC for an ego stroke in the off season, when he tells you that no one is above the team-pout. Cry a lot then run and hide. Demand a trade then lie about it. The Face Of The Franchise.

I'm not really a fan of Jay Cutler, but the Broncos did give themselves another hole to fill with that move.

I said he needed to be surrounded by an offensive line that gave him at least some pocket to work with. But what QB doesn't need at least a hint of protection?

Yes. This is what I was getting at.

What is this fascination you have for putting words in people's mouths? Do you really think that Cassell has looked like a better QB than Sanchez?

Oh, yeah. Elway spoiled us Bronco fans. It's not like we're gonna get another Elway any time soon.

Yep. Had to be done though.

Sounds like a homer excuse to me, Cutler may have had an ego but he has way more upside then Orton can dream of.


I just wanna know why your really here? Is it because you really want a conversation about Sanchez or is it because you wanna gloat about something that any intelligent Chiefs fan already knows.

The Broncos are better then the Chiefs!!!!!!

All you have to do is read. Without trying to figure some bizarre ulterior motive for why I post.

Look man Sanchez looks better, he does what he has to do to win games, being 3-0 with their first 3 games with a rookie QB is unbelievable. But no matter what the response you're going to get is "look who Cassel plays with".

I fear that will become the tact for years to come that no matter what the Chiefs Cassel will always be given a pass because he doesn't have a perfect team.

Cutler won't win anything in the NFL ... he brings thoughts of Jeff George to my head....

I think that's a pretty big exaggeration. Brady's not exactly lighting the world on fire in his return.

I've said many times that one reason I like Cassel is because of that "it" factor that you spoke about with Sanchez. Cassel improved significantly last year. And he did so because he has a ridiculous work ethic and he's a quick study. I'm not so convinced that many QBs would have that sort of discipline to get better as quickly as he did. And he did so in an offense which, while they ran the ball quite a did, still did so with mostly an aerial attack--most first-time quarterbacks who succeed do so because they rely exclusively on the running game.

I don't want Trent Green again, people still make excuses for him. Trent was a product of what was around him, I want a QB that makes the players around him better.

Sanchez has looked good.

The point is, you'll never know how Cassel would do with the Jets, and you'll never know how Sanchez would do with the Chiefs. They are two entirely different situations and you'd have to be on crack to say that the Chiefs' situation is even remotely close to being as nice and cooshy as the Jets'.

You should have seen it over at the Mane this off season with the Cutler trade. Much worse than this place with Cassell. Some of those idiots think Cutler would have already won the Super Bowl for us three times if we had even a Pop Warner team around him apparently. Others were sure that he has always eaten babies. Crazy shit.

It's not but lets be frank, how many people picked the Jets to finish in last? Or win 4 or 5 games?

No one thought they'd start 3-0 I'd venture most thought 0-3.

exactly.... Trent Green was a nice QB but he wasn't great... I want a "great" player at QB for the Chiefs.... I guess I am greedy

I didn't. Not with a rookie QB.

Sometimes situations and personnel just don't fit.

There's a good number of QB's that could have did what Trent did, he stood in the pocket all day, never got touched had an elite running game.

If we had someone with a big arm like a Drew Bledsoe back there in a situation where he wouldn't get touched he'd have probably broken a passing record.

That's all well and good. But you can't polish a turd. It's not like it's Cassel's fault that his o-line keeps blowing their assignments, or that the Chiefs can't move the ball an inch on the ground.

I've seen Cassel do a lot of things that Green does not. If you watch him at the line of scrimmage, he's a lot more active in calling out assignments and audibles. And whereas Green was a pure zone QB that relied on pass protection to give receivers time to hit their spots, Cassel's been a lot less shy and a lot more capable about gunning the ball into tight spots.

I think Cassel has the upside to be much better than Green. But that's not going to happen when you have the worst offensive line in football. No QB can succeed under those conditions. Even Big Ben doesn't have to deal with an o-line this bad.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if Cutler would have had the patience to run the new Bronco Offense.

I blame alot of this shit on Pioli and Haley, if he didn't like Gailey or his playbook you gotta make that call earlier than 2 weeks before the season.

Pioli knew this Oline was a can of smashed assholes if he didn't then he's extremely naive.

He never struck me as the patient type. His body language when a play wasn't made pretty much told the tale.

There's a lot of shit that pisses me off.

Ignoring the offensive line.
Playing musical ****ing chairs with receivers, when Cassel needs every last rep to build timing with his receivers
Not hiring a ****ing quarterbacks coach to tutor Cassel

You would think that when the Chiefs made all the effort to get Cassel, they'd try just a little harder to give him opportunity to get comfortable in this offense. People loved the idea of demoting Bowe or benching Bradley against Oakland. **** that. The idea pissed me off then, and it pisses me off today too.

:shake:

That O-Line of yours went downhill incredibly quickly. You guys had a lot of FO changeover though during the time when it should have been addressed. I've seen comments that it was Vermeil that screwed the Chiefs over with a Win Now mentality the new FO is still trying to pick up the pieces.

:shake:

The thing to remember about Sanchez with the Jets is he's playing behind an O-Line that the Jets have invested a lot of money/1st round picks into, a strong running game and at least one receiver with the ability to get open (cotchery). This isn't a knock on Sanchez, as I was high on him before the draft. He's doing good so far, but the season is still very young.

The Chiefs O-Line would struggle to block against Terri Shiavo and Helen Keller as pass-rushers, a #1 RB just going through the motions to collect a check and a WR corp that contains 1 WR that would have a shot at being a starter on another team.

Any QB would be destroyed and look like complete ass in this offense. If the Chiefs can actually build talent on the offense and Cassel looks like shit, start the Sanchez/Cassel debate.

There's one thing all good offenses have...timing and that comes with experience playing together. So I can't personally understand how anyone thinks constantly rotating the offense is a good idea.

I said this right after the draft, the Chiefs have set Matt Cassel up to fail this offseason has been completely unfair to him even having a chance to succeed.

During the Vermeil years, once the o-line was set, Tait was the last successfully drafted o-lineman until Branden Albert was drafted.

Worse, we knew this offseason that our o-line sucked. Our front office apparently didn't realize this.

Carl Peterson ****ed the o-line up. But that doesn't give Pioli the excuse to not do anything about it.

I really pity Cassel. I really do.

He deserves a chance to prove himself. And the Chiefs are making that as difficult on him as they possibly could.

I know you wanted Sanchez. But I'm seeing that you agree that Cassel is crippled right now big time by poor decisions made by the Chiefs' front office?

:shake:

If I was ever going to say I thought Pioli and Haley were arrogant here would be why I get that feeling..

Who trades for their franchise QB then gets him nothing to work with? Did these guys really think they'd take these scrub as players and make them pro bowlers?

Who puts in an entirely different offensive playbook 2 weeks before the season? You decide that stuff when you TAKE THE JOB.

I've already gone around and around about Albert. I think he would be an elite Guard and it was a gamble to draft him for LT.

But, yeah. I see what you mean about Pioli.

I think the Chiefs have made a ton of poor decisions this offseason. I generally think Cassel was one aswell but if they were going to go with him as their guy what they did was reeruned.

If they had done this to Sanchez I'd say they were stupid too, you do not do that. You don't drop 60 mill on a QB then say "ah lets let this guy fail"

The thing that makes this worse is this team has a ton of cap room Jason Brown signed with the Rams which says hey he'd play here if we'd pay him. Deepest OL draft in recent memory but no we gotta have Alex Magee and Donald Washington.

Obviously backup ends and 4th CB's are more important than protecting your starting QB who you just basically said is our franchise guy.

And then people wonder why some think Pioli is arrogant or stupid.

Albert wasn't nearly this bad last year. I still think the weight loss had a lot to do with it, and I have a feeling they're making him do a lot of different things with his technique. Because it's not like he's getting flat-out beat. On most plays, he looks like he's confused, like he's not sure what he's supposed to do fundamentally. I think he'll be fine as the season goes along.

A guy is confused when he got a new playbook 2 weeks before the season...Todd Haley at his best, other than when he's quitting in the 3rd quarter.

I think your expectations are a little to high for 1 offseason, I don't know how you can take the worst O-line in the league and by some miracle all of a sudden they are decent.

I really wonder if any of the starters really understand wtf Muir is expecting of them or do they even give a shit?

The problem is even the decent players on the line last year have suddenly regressed to almost if not complete Jordan Black level.

You don't.

You replace these poor players through the draft and free agency.

Problem is, the Chiefs didn't.

I'm not asking for all world I'm asking for competent you pay Jason Brown and god knows we have the money to do it that alone is worlds better Niswanger is the worst center I have ever seen. He does nothing well.

You can grab starting guards in the 2nd day of the draft, even if they were struggling atleast you could say, hey they're young they'll get better.

Wouldn't you rather have Duke Robinson out there at RG than Mike Goff?

When you trade for a QB and give him 60 mill I feel as a GM you are obligated to atleast make sure you don't ruin him. If I was a GM and I knew I was going to deal for Cassel or make a move for a QB in the top 5, the rest of my offseason would have been completely geared for that move.

I'd rather have Duke, but their are so many God damn holes on this team, where the **** do you start?

Duke Robinson got drafted at the end of the 5th round, we took Colin Brown ahead of him, think about that.

Like I said if you're going to make a QB move you need to make moves to atleast give him a chance. That offseason needs to be centered on how can I protect my QB, how can I do this.

The Chiefs went and got a QB and focused on their moves on defense, I think that's poor management.

I can't really hate on Pioli for not addressing the O-Line to much, because I'm one that is so sick and ****ing tired of our Defense sucking complete balls that is where I wanted to get stronger.

That's great but it's a bad team, when you make the QB move you are obligated to not let him get his brains beat in.

I would have waited till next year for the defense if I had decided I was going QB this year.

mecca do you think that Albert is a legitimate left tackle?

And your probably right about this. But I'm not gonna attack him when I'm one of the ones at the draft screaming defense defense.

And they are just so ****ing awesome now

:shake: