But Pioli had Cassel for two years (this season and the next if the CBA doesn't get renewed) without having to ink a new deal in the first place.

The opportunity cost of trading for Cassel can possibly outweigh the 60 million.

to be fair, i dont think jesus christ himself could forsee our line being THIS bad.

I guess 2008 Chiefs games were blacked out in Jesus' viewing area?

For the millionth freaking time. We all knew we were going to lose. I thought this would be a 4-12 team with a lot of luck.

It's the "foundation" that should have been built this year that's in question. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

:doh!: I hope you're wrong.

I sure as hell hope Pioli makes some solid moves this offseason and has a decent draft...i dont want a dayton moore running the chiefs

I think you finally understand the frustration I've had with this franchise since May.

No offense Bro, but Todd Haley has NO ****ING history with QB's.

He didn't call the plays in 2007. It was clear that Warner would be the man because Whisenhunt installed a vertical passing game.

Last year, Haley was allowed to call plays. But do you think that there was any chance that Warner was going to be pulled in favor of Leinart?

Haley is what he is: A n00b.

I think people are just frustrated. The Jets might have won this deal but I don't think Pioli should be burned at the cross for not making it. I don't know, it's just not that bad. I wasn't blown away by it. Maybe it will be in the end, who knows.

I just don't think we're in any position to be trading multiple draft picks away. Especially when there's a chance we might have the first pick in every round. Unless you find a really good offensive lineman or safety or something. But even then, it might not be worth it. I'm tired of everybody building this team from outside-in... Carl did the same thing. We need an offensive line, a nose tackle, MLB's, safeties.

Why would Aaron Curry give a shit about our OL anyway?

He lives in the Dallas market, Just ask Jerry Jones...

Does anyone even know if Pioli and Co actually tried to deal or not? or even inquired about it?

Anyone?

Bullshit.

This isn't politics. No one was asking for "change". People were asking for IMPROVEMENT.

Every team across the league has improved this offseason, save for the Chiefs. EVERY ****ING TEAM.

Denver hired a new coach and GM, have seven new starters on defense and are the top ranked D in the league. Ask yourself: Why couldn't that be the Chiefs?

The offensive line has been THE worst in the league since 2007 (and it was close in 2006). Since 2006, the have had injuries occur to ALL FOUR STARTING QB's! Shouldn't that be a ****ing RED FLAG?

All Pioli did is sign a 33 year old never was in Mike Goof. What did that get him? An injured $63 million dollar QB in preseason game THREE. And he still hasn't recovered.

Also, do you understand that the Chiefs have now spent their last three TOP PICKS, round one in 2008, round one in 2009 and round three in 2009 on FIVE TECH DEFENSIVE ENDS? That's not only unheard of, it's a complete waste of opportunity.

What's even WORSE is that Pioli's next move was not to address the offensive line but to draft a CORNERBACK!! WHAT? What's wrong with Flowers & Carr from the 2008 draft? Oh yeah, NOTHING!

This has been one gigantic cluster**** from day one.

I don't care if they did. The Jets don't need many other pieces. Actually if they win the Super Bowl in a year or two Mangini really should get a lot of credit for building that team. Including this trade, haha. The Jets might be one or two players away. If it was a single pick I would've jumped on it, but if Edwards performs well it'll be a 2nd and a 5th. The way we're playing, our 2nd might end up being like a late 1st. That's a tough call.

When Haley makes a change at QB, I'll believe it.

Until then it's nothing more than lip service.

What, no Sunday Ticket in heaven?

This is a supremely flawed argument.

The 2009 draft was loaded with offensive lineman and skill position talent. The 2010 draft will be loaded with defensive talent. You should not draft against the board, but since Pioli did it in 2009, I guess nothing can be unexpected.

The bottom line is that the Chiefs had the picks to make this deal happen. They have two second rounders due to the Gonzalez trade so their three was expendable and they better have gotten a 5th for Thigpen, otherwise, I'm going to go ****ing apeshit.

Especially if it was Thigpen for Alleman and Nsuckwe.

So did they or didnt they call and/or make an offer?

Funniest line from a Jets site:

Move over Dick Clark!! Braylon is dropping the ball this New Years!!

I don't care what kind of talent draft the draft is loaded with. Whatever kind of talent is in the draft, we probably need it. Because we sure don't have it now, haha. We could use a real NT, four LB's, and two safeties.

Why the hell are you asking me? I'm in Hollywood, not Kansas City.

How would I know?

Especially considering it's Fort ****ing Arrowhead One now.

LMFAO espn having herm breakdown the jets trade saying they got a big play reciever and they are showing highlights of braylon dropping passes while he is saying that, great job production crew

Dude, just stop.

The Chiefs need EVERYTHING other than QB, DE and CB.

That leaves 17 starting positions and 23 backup positions that are needed.

This ****ing roster sucks, which is clearly evident in this non-competitive 0-4 start, especially after 6 wins in the prior 26 games.

So, now... I guess the Chiefs will probably draft 3rd, right?

Behind Cleveland and Tampa Bay?

This is a point that is overlooked: Those 2 years would cost us the same as what we actually guaranteed him. if he doesnt work out 28 mil if it does work we got a good deal

LOL 'Fort Arrowhead' I like it. Whitlock will probably use that one.

PhilFree:arrow:

I'm wondering if Mangini is still on the Jets payroll..lol..this is farking awesome!

The way everyone is reacting?

everyone is bitching about this and that, not the right 53 blah blah blah, has anyone heard for sure they didnt make an attempt for him?

First off this self-righteous indignation is silly. Do you think that the roster was a couple players away? That just because CP drafted a boat load of bust in the pervious 3 years we should run the 4-3? That's idiotic. It's simply pissing in the wind. Pioli took the job, probably thinking it was - using a medical analogy - a bypass operation - only to find that the patient was Terry Schiavo. He had to pull the plug and start from scratch. This team was in shambles after years of poor drafting and leaning on either too old or too untalented players. There are holes EVERYWHERE and there are only so many draft choices a team has... Second guessing is fine - but use some context. If we had drafted Jason Smith - we'd have ****ing Brokie still getting killed and everybody would be up in arms about it. If we had drafted Sanchez - nothing would have changed - Dirty would be just as dead as Cassel looks.

If we look at this honestly - there were simply too many holes and changes to be made to expect a good year.

I think we need to think (HOPE TO HELL) that this a bloodletting year and that we can take a step forward next season - a la JJ in Dallas 89/90 or even BB first to second year jump with the pats. Otherwise, I dunno... Some people are less reactionary than others, I understand... so, ya know... get all pissed off and tell your buddies what you'd have done as GM - if that make you feel better...

I hadn't considered that. Good point.

Why are you getting your panties in a knot about a guy that's had one good season in a 4 1/2 year career with hands of stone and a bad attitude? And that you had no idea about who was involved in terms of which teams were offering what.

And how did he mismanage the offensive line? They brought in Mike Goff in the off-season, and then upon the realization that this was not a good line, made moves for Alleman, Ndukwe and O'Callaghan. Coming in to the situation, one would have thought that having a first round draft pick (Albert) and a perennial All-Pro in Waters would have given you a decent chance at putting together a decent offensive line, especially when you add a guy like Goff, who had a good year last year. Going into the draft, they couldn't have thought that it was going to be this bad, that the deficiencies that were there were correctable with better coaching. It was that bad though, and they have made steps to remedy the situation although at this point there is only so much you are going to be able to do, especially with the offensive line as most teams would rather give up their left nut than a competent offensive lineman.

As well, they were relying on Carl's scouting department going into this last draft, and I don't think that there is a single person here who would characterize the Chiefs ability to objectively and properly evaluate talent through the Carl Peterson period as good.

If anyone didn't think that this new FO and coaching was going to view this season as anything other than a year long adjustment period and the first baby step in a complete overhaul was fooling themselves. And to make a statement such as "two strikes against," especially at four games into their first season after 20 years of Carlism, is nothing short of complete myopia.

:clap:

and IMO he was going to get two years worth of a shot anyway. Isnt a 2nd round pick at least deserving of that?

WTF?

Goff didn't have a good year last year.

He was clearly on the decline, and was sucking ass.

And making moves for other team's scrubs is not addressing the problem.

And anyone coming into a situation that has two good O-Lineman, and three suckass lineman who would think that the line has a reasonable chance of being good would be a ****ing moron.

So what would you have them do? It seems if Haley tries to run the ball at any time in the second half, you castigate him as a quitter, but now when he throws the ball, he's padding the QB's stats? You can't have it both ways. And after the second touchdown in the Giants game, there was still 5:00 minutes to play. I don't think that with 5:00 minutes left and the game is still conceptually still in reach, that it's padding the stats.

Do you really think they'll cut him loose after 2 seasons if he's not performing?

I'd be shocked if he's here any less than 4.

People can say all we're on the hook for is the $30M guaranteed, but that's if we actually cut him loose.

If he's on the roster, he gets his salary. And like I said, I'd be shocked if they were to cut him before that contract expires - or at least until he got most of it.

I'm wondering if Mousaquis play helped the Browns make this trade.

You haven't seen the Rams this season I take it?

Hands down the worst team in the league.

I think it's tough to get a bead on the satellite from there.

Maybe he's facing north...

He has dish network....

He has helped you out quite a bit this year - gave you the franchise QB for nothing, now a stud WR. Patriots reign on the AFC East looks to be ending.

You can still cut/trade the one who sucks the penis after year 1 and be out 14.

YES i do, what would make you think otherwise looking at pioli/patriots past history, and yeah if we cut him or he doesnt make the performance clauses, of which there are probably some, it is the SAME as if we had franchised him 2x. So whats the big deal that we signed him long term? The financial hit is the same either way.

:hmmm:

Then what?

thats true hamas, BUT does ANYONE think we gave up a 2nd rounder for one year? How many 2nd round picks have been cut after their 1st season?

Name your terms.

I'm betting he'll still be here in 2011 even if he doesn't perform.

And how many have been cut after 2 as a starting QB?

sorry i dont bet on anything. Again what in his, pioli, history says that you are making a good assumption?


If you cant see that signing him long term was a good business decision then you have some problems.


1: We could give him a 2 year try out for 28 million on 2 franchise tags. After those 2 years he could walk, OR We could sign him to a new FAT contract with a FAT signing bonus
2: We could sign him to a 5 year 60 million deal with 28 million guaranteed. If after 2 years he's not living up to expectations we can cut him and not spend ANY MORE THAN WE WOULD HAVE ANYWAY. OR if he is playing up to expectations KEEP HIM on the contract that by that time will be a VERY team friendly deal.


Now i fully expect you to do EXACTLY what you bitch about from others and sit there with fingers in your ears screaming LALALALALALA
But if you could look at things objectively maybe you would see.

Talk about objectivity...

Do us all a favor.

List all QB's that were acquired via trade or draft using a 2nd round pick or higher that were cut after 2 years starting for the team that drafted/traded for them.

I'll wait.

Again: what does that have to do with ANYTHING?

Pioli just made a good business decision. If you cant see that then i dont know what else to say except sorry.

And where was i wrong about us cutting him and not being out anything more than we would have been if we cut him after 2 years?

Bring in a QB who can play.

being fair we dont know for sure yet if we have one that can do that for us or not. Any thoughts different than that are just assumptions at this point.

While I agree with your assesment of Goff, he was a step up from Adrian Jones and was known as an all effort guy.

I still maintain there were too many holes and not enough draft picks. And as for FA's who did they miss on? It is not easy to get top FA talent when you sit at the bottom.

Haley and Pioli are learning first hand about the OL problems so I will be interested to see how they address it this coming off-season.

THEN WHY THE **** DID WE SIGN HIM FOR 6 ****ING YEARS!!

Because we're ****ing stupid?

Ding....ding................................ding.

http://i30.tinypic.com/348slr5.jpg

we have the cap room. in the NFL its not really a six year deal... they believe he is the guy. that is all.

this

you are right, thats what you look like....


on bottom

It has everything to do with it.

You're saying you're saying you're confident that Pioli will cut Cassel after the 2010 season if he doesn't perform, and I'm asking you to find historical evidence that someone taken/traded for that high of a pick was cut after only 2 years starting.

again, what does historical evidence have to do with it?

Anyone looking objectively at this situation from a business standpoint would see it. Sorry if you cant. We may just see it with brady quinn, jp losman was pretty close on seasons started, which was your criteria.

And again i'll ask you: What in pioli's/ the patriots history shows that he WONT cut bait and run from a player that isnt working out?

NFL network was saying this AM that only an uneducated fan would try and judge Cassel behind this line and also was ripping LJ for being soft and not blocking...

Hum? Thoughts?

Dear God.

NFL TEAMS DON'T USE A 1ST OR 2ND ROUND DRAFT PICK TO SELECT OR TRADE FOR A QB, AND THEN CUT HIM AFTER STARTING FOR 2 YEARS DUE TO NON-PERFORMANCE.

IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

BUT YOU'RE CHOOSING TO IGNORE THAT, AND CLAIM THAT PIOLI WILL CUT HIM WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BACK UP THAT CLAIM.

BUT PLEASE, KEEP LIVING IN YOUR CARBON MONOXIDE-FILLED FANTASY WORLD.

WE'RE MARRIED TO THIS GUY, WHETHER HE PERFORMS OR NOT.

LMAO

I had to put it in a format that Captain Capslock himself could understand.

ROFL

Just not used to my screen yelling at me!

What i have actually said is that pioli seems to have set up the contract situation where he could actually do just that, cut him, if needed.

Oh and by the way i dont think pioli looks at nfl history when he makes his decisions.

How many 3 techs have been taken 3 overall?

And again YOU REFUSE to acknowledge PIOLI'S past history on getting rid of players that dont perform.

And also you should give hamas credit for the "carbon monoxide" thing again. PLEASE come up with some original stuff sometime.

*buzzer*

Wrong.

I said:

And then YOU said:



So, I'll ask AGAIN:

When has ANY team/GM/Pioli/Jesus used a draft pick in the 2nd round or higher to draft, or trade for a QB, start him for 2 years, and then cut him due to performance.

There's nothing in Pioli's history to suggest that, there's nothing in the Patriots history to suggest that, there's nothing in the modern history of the NFL to suggest that.

Youre right i do THINK they will, thats why the contract was set up the way it is.

AGAIN: who has taken a 5 tech at #3? pioli has shown that he isnt concerned with precedent. he will set the precedent if needed. thats a fact.
Now do i KNOW what will happen? NO BUT if you look at the situation with an OPEN mind it's pretty clear that he left himself an out.


You are a funny guy and one day you might realize that just because YOU think it doesnt mean it's right.

It has happened before, but usually as some final gasp of desperation by a dying regime or something like that. The Dolphins and AJ Feeley come to mind. It's not perfectly analogous to the stated criteria, but Feeley wasn't in their plans just one year later, let alone two. He got pulled as a starter the same season they traded for him. WANNSTACHE~!

Sauto does have a point, though, about Cassel's contract. If you don't think they would cut him after two years, then you have to chalk up the specifics of his deal (equivalent* to 2 years of franchising [or 1 year franchised + 1 year RFA with no CBA]) as being some kind of happenstance.

I have trouble believing they'd cut bait on him so quick, but I also have trouble believing those numbers are just a coincidence.

(*it's actually a little cheaper)

You keep saying this, but don't bother to explain what you mean by it.

Please, enlighten us.

How did Pioli structure the contract to "leave himself an out?"

AJ Feely with Miami.... now would you shut the **** up about it.

No, he really doesn't.

Because "if you don't think they would cut him after two years" as I don't - you're failing to recognize that he'll get the rest of the $63M.

He's only guaranteed $28M.

He's going to get paid much, much more than that.

People are trying to justify his contract by saying we'd only be out $28M, when that's far from the case.

Hell, for sake of conversation, say we did cut his ass after the 2010 season.

He'll earn the entire $28M, plus his base salary for 2009 and 2010, plus any roster bonuses that may have been part of the deal.

AJ Feely was drafted in the 5th round...

Did they sign Feeley to a 6 year deal worth $63M and then let him walk?

No?

Then **** off.

It was said at the time that the contract was front loaded. And by guaranteeing him 28 million when he would have gotten 28 million for two years tells the story

LMAO how do guarantees work? thats the signing bonus and the yearly salary that he's guaranteed no matter what right? so some if not all of that 28 million will be paid in the first three years if you believe what was speculated at the time of the signing.


Again you should try to be objective here.