So you're implying that just because Tyson Jackson plays the same position as Richard Seymour, Tyson Jackson will have the same impact as Richard Seymour?

Do I have that right?

Who said a few years? 7 games Dane, 7 games.

WHOO!

Matt Cassel is going to have the same impact as Joe Montana!

What if he's Marcus Spears then all of the sudden our pick is trash.

Not to mention Spears is from the same college and was actually far more productive of a college player.

I know but it's still not an "impact" position.

The Chiefs could have signed Ohlshansky or Canty in free agency and our defense wouldn't be any better or worse.

Yet, the number three pick could have been used elsewhere.

I don't care for Pioli's personnel decisions to this point.

Don't be a ****ing reerun. I said "How do you know he won't be a top lineman?". Had nothing to do with with because he plays the same position. You guys can be such stupid ass holes sometimes.
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Well if it turns out that he sucks then it will be horrible pick. But after 7 games you don't know it was a horrible pick.
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Besides you can't criticize Tyson Jackson, Mecca. He's only 22!!!!!!!!!
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Where did you say that?

Here's what you actually said:

Please explain because the words in those two quotes appear to me to be quite different and appear to have a different meaning.

Agree. This team may be 6 to 8 players from competing for 4-12.

Last season, when a starter went down, a young unproven player like Carr was shoved on the field and got valuable experience. This year, when a starter goes down, a convoy of mediocre veterans come in while young unproven guys sit on the bench. And they continue to be unproven guys. While the mediocre vets don't play any better.

That's the difference in "Playing youth" I was alluding to.

Mays and Belcher would disagree with you.

I'm not saying we had a great draft this year. I'm saying I define "impact" as helping to make a difference between winning and losing. Otherwise I agree with Haley, 22 guys off the street could win 2 games...

Corey Mays isn't exactly as young as you might think he's an NFL journeyman.

Mays has played for 3 teams. He's neither young nor unproven.

Belcher is a special teamer. Behind Mays on the depth chart.....

Corey Mays isn't a 25 year old, four year NFL veteran?

Huh.

The only guy that could even remotely considered as having an impact this year is Mr. Irrelevant, Ryan Succop.

But then again, you actually have to be in a position to win for the kicker to have an impact.




I've been told that Whitlock made that up, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Who made a more immediate impact? Matt Leinhart,Reggie Bush, Vince Young, or Mario Williams? Leinhart,Bush and Young did. So what? Who is going to make a long term impact is what matters.
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Yet, how long are we suppose to wait for a 27 year old QB who has had 4 years experience in the league and is suppose to be a proven commodity?

Next year will be key, their's been stats presented that indicates that if Cassel sucks again it would be cheaper to cut him after his second year than letting him play it out.

It doesn't really matter the ages. Carl and Herm were the ones who said they were going to go "youth movement". And their youngsters brought 6 wins in 2 years.

These new guys never said "youth movement", they said they're going to build the team in their vision and find guys who they feel can play. Obviously thus far they haven't, but I think again we're using a fallacy in thinking that just because a veteran is playing over a young guy, the young guy is not getting experience and therefore not becoming good, while the vet sucks and is still getting the PT. When in reality, the young guy probably sucks anyway, and you're wasting time playing him because he's not ready to play. For reference, see Herm Edwards, 2007 and 2008.

We've tried it both ways. It doesn't matter. The bottom line is someone needs to find good football players for this team, I don't care if they are 22 or 32...

Way to avoid the subject AND avoid addressing your previous posts.

:rolleyes:

Again, are you implying that since Tyson Jackson hasn't made an impact through seven games, he'll make an impact like Mario Williams did next year?

I love this crap about "4 years of experience". He was on the bench behind Tom Brady those 4 years.
And I thought we were talking about Tyson Jackson, Mr "The 86 Broncos were as bad as the 09 Chiefs".
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25 makes him an unproven veteran? Huh.

Not at all. The point is, you don't know what his impact is going to be either. Neither does Mecca, or Hamas, OTWP.
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This is patently FALSE.

The Chiefs didn't begin their "rebuild" until the 2008 draft. At that point, the team traded Jared Allen and brought in a youth at crucial positions. LT, RB, DT, TE, CB, CB and Safety.

They brought only two wins because the Chiefs went through three starting quarterbacks. Furthermore, they lost eight games by 7 points or less.

IMO, it seemed like they were building a nice, youthful foundation. Of course, Pioli disagreed and instead, neutered the team.

What? What? WHAT?

The "young" guy should have far more potential than the "old" guy. He doesn't necessarily "suck" as he needs experience. What better way for a young player to get experience than on a 1-6 team?

Again, 2008.

We didn't "try it both ways". What the **** are you talking about?

You can't rebuild the worst roster in the league in one ****ing offseason.

Yet Pioli decided that the majority of guys chosen in the past few years aren't part of the "Right 53", so those guys are producing elsewhere.

And a 32 year old guy may or may not make it through the season so it sure as hell BETTER matter.

So what, the reason he was signed in the 1st place because supposedly he could run a NFL offense with no "rookie" mistakes.

He was paid 63 million dollars with 28 guaranteed his time is now.

The only way Jackson becomes the player he was billed to be is if he becomes that solid guy who you can build a defense around, as Pioli compared him to Russel Maryland. If in two years that front seven is not one of the best in the league anchored by Jackson, then Jackson will not have lived up to his draft position.

Four years in the NFL doesn't constitute "youth".

Four years would be "veteran".

If he's "Russell Maryland", I'll be even more pissed that the Chiefs took him #3 overall.

That ****ing fatass played 4 years for the Dallas Cowboys before moving onto the Raiders and finally Packers.

That's a pretty shitty career, IMO.

Tyson Jackson will NEVER live up to the #3 overall position, which is what makes his selection even worse.

Well... quite a few of the young guys that excelled last year have started this year. Brandon Carr was pretty raw when he arrived. He still is in some ways. But the experience he got last year, while making mistakes along the way, dramatically improved him and locked him in as a starter this season. Same for Mike Cox, who played almost out of necessity. Tank, who had improved quite a bit over last season, got valuable experience at times last season. Enough to require a draft pick in trade. This year Kenny Smith was brought in. Need I remind you when his last action was?

Like you said, somebody definitely needs to find good football players though. I haven't seen any improvement on that.

Disagree because midway through 2007 they began giving the young guys more playing time. It didn't begin during the 2007 offseason, but it did begin during that season once things went south.

And again, bringing in youth at critical positions is just terminology. They brought in a guard to convert to a franchise LT, and ended up passing on the best LT in the draft. They brought in a RB that has provided little to no impact to the running game aside from fumbling. They brought in a TE who can't play. And everyone on defense contributed, again, to a historically bad defense.

If they had actually done their job and drafted well, and also not built their youth movement around Brodie Croyle, they probably would have won more than 2 games and saved their jobs...

25 years old goes against the youth movement which was the original point of the post?

Yeah, because you're basing it on stats. I base it on the fact that he was the anchor of a defense that won three super bowls, was in Jimmy Johnson's own words critical to their success, and did a lot of the dirty work up front. If Tyson Jackson is the anchor to a defense that wins even one super bowl, he will have been a huge success...

If Jackson turns out to be Russell ****ing Maryland, Pioli deserves to be drawn and quartered in Lot G in front of every Chiefs fan alive.

Anchor of the defense my ass.

Give me Charles Haley and Jim Jeffcoat, FTW.

I'm not just referencing 07-08 here, I'm talking Carl's history here. We've tried it with veterans, we've tried it with young guys, and it never went anywhere. And by anywhere, my measure is winning the Super Bowl.

And you know what, that "worst roster in the league" became the worst roster under whose watch? So of course anyone coming in here is going to rip it apart. You think Carl actually was building a core that could win the Super Bowl?

Wow, OK. I guess Jimmy Johnson is just a dumbass who didn't know what the **** was going on with his own defense...

Dude, it doesn't work like that. The Chiefs didn't go with a youth during the 2007 season. They drafted guys to play on the defensive line because they were necessary. There were no other new "young" guys out there. Donnie Edwards?

What? Clearly, you know nothing about offensive line play. Albert was a guard that pulled and played very well in space. He's a natural left tackle and the ONLY reason he played guard is because Eugene Monroe could ONLY play tackle.

How didn't they "pass" on the best left tackle in the draft when they didn't have a pick to draft him? Are you stating that the Chiefs should have passed on Dorsey, who was the unanimous best player in the draft, to take Clady, who was a questionable run blocker?

Clady wouldn't have the same success in KC as he does in Denver because the Chiefs don't zone block.


So Charles has had no impact? For a third rounder? Huh. I thought he played pretty well in the spread last year, touching the ball 67 times for 676 yards, good for 6.6 yard per touch. You're bitching about that?

Cottam is a receiving tight end, not a blocking tight end. Haley hasn't played him. Haley doesn't like anyone that was here before.

No ONE is stating that the defense was in place. But they're no better this year and that's after drafting three defensive players with their top three picks AND dumping three starters from last year's squad.


So, since the Chiefs are likely to go no better than 2-14 this year after building their team around Cassel, Jackson, Magee and Washington, should they be fired as well?

I mean, one year is long enough to rebuild, right?

JFC.

If you were talking about a 25 year-old rookie or second year player, I might agree.

But a 25 year-old, four year veteran does not count as "youth", no matter how you try to twist it.

Had the conversation been about any other player, he would have called them an anchor as well - it's not like he's going to shit on his players.

And personally, I could give two shits what JJ thinks. If Jackson is a Russell Maryland clone, we've been ****ed right in the ass.

I'm not saying RM is a scrub - not at all - but you better get a lot more out of a 3rd overall pick.

So let me get this right: You're basing Tyson Jackson's abilities and his potential impact based on a quote by Jimmy Johnson to validate Jackson's selection by Pioli?

Pretzel logic, anyone?

Dont know bout the 2010 dateline .. but hopefully we'll field a better team ....

Dane, Carl was here for TWENTY YEARS. One year to rebuild my ass. This has been a losing franchise this decade. And you want to talk about how promising the team he was putting together looked? Seriously?

You also have him trading away perhaps the league's best defensive player for what right now is an average left tackle, a backup safety, and what so far has been a third down back. THAT is how you rebuild?

And name me the last defensive tackle he drafted that worked out for this team.

As far as Cottam, as a tight end you NEED to block. You also NEED to receive if you are a receiving tight end. By all accounts he sucked at BOTH aspects of the game this offseason and preseason and into the season.

I'm not sitting here defending Pioli, CLEARLY this team is no better than they were last year, and could be worse in some senses. But I sure as hell am not going to defend what he inherited either...

Dude, I DID NOT MAKE THIS ANALOGY. SCOTT PIOLI did after the draft. I am just relaying what SCOTT PIOLI feels would make the dude a successful pick. And in my mind if he anchors a super bowl defense and does things that allow other players to get pro bowl numbers, then yeah, success. But I am not basing Jackson's success based on something Jimmy Johnson said...

Herm Edwards got control of personnel from Carl in 2008. Herm Edwards wanted to rebuild in 2006, then again in 2007. Carl said no so finally, Edwards went directly to Hunt.

Look, I don't think Herm is a Super Bowl coach. But I certainly think he had the right idea about building a youthful football team. If you look around at the league, teams like Baltimore, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants and Philly build their teams through the draft. They don't go out and buy the highest priced free agents. They don't use stop gaps. They draft and develop. That's what Herm wanted to do with the Chiefs. But since Pioli has been hired, all of that's out the window.

I don't know where this team is headed and neither does anyone else. But so far, the only place it's gone is down.

firing herm was the worst move this franchise made

We have picks stockpiled people. Have you no patience?

Stockpiled?

We have 7.

Stockpiled would be the 12 or 13 we had in 2008.

LMAO

Now wait just a second....

the haley era has been great SPOCK!

Whether or not Haley is/can be a good head coach is still unknown

Two things that are known, though, is Herman ****ing Edwards couldn't coach his dumb ass out of a paper bag.

And the only dumbass that makes his dumbassery look mild is you.

He went to the playoffs year after year with the jets and took the chiefs there, he was rebuilding and chiefs hit the panic button and fired him

He basically killed both franchises, dumbass.

go do some research

Panic button hell.. I used to be a big Herm supporter, but the guy definitely had his flaws. He had the right idea about how to build a franchise. But he went about it with the grace of a drunken elephant. We didn't hurt ourselves cutting ties with him. But we haven't shown improvement over it yet either.

just think we'd be running wildcat our offense would be top 10. we'd probably be 5-2 or so

I don't have to do research, dumbass.

I watch football.

I saw what his dumb ass did to both the Jets and the Cheifs.

Herm's only path back to the NFL would be through personnel (Pro Player Personnel, Assistant GM, GM).

I can't see him as a head coach in the league. He's made too many mistakes as a head coach and that's all on video.

Although anything's possible as long as Big Al in Oakland is alive...

Truth be told, the Jets were in far better shape than the Chiefs.

And no one will ever know if his efforts to turn around the Chiefs franchise would have been successful since Pioli shipped everyone out but Hali.

Haley's alienated Bowe, Bradley, Albert and Charles to the point where I question their future effectiveness under this regime.

When the rumors started circulating that Herman ****ing Edwards was on Carl's radar, I wanted no part of him.

He was the worst coach in the league.

Any intelligent talk over here? The Patriot troll has taken over the LJ thread with his dipshittery.

JPB sucks the life out of every thread he trolls. It's like arguing with Terri Schiavo.

He finally found the ignore list.

yeah and you probably wanted to keep jared, and trade LJ, and not give cassel 60 million, and draft succop, and not draft dorsey, and sims, and siavii, and tank, and turk, and jackson

He took over a well coached Jets team, and by the time he was through, they were undisciplined and lacking direction.

The Cheifs were in far worse shape becasue they were getting old and ready for an infusion of youth when he took over.

Hire a coach that lacks discpline and direction, add youth, and you get a bad, bad football team.

Herman ****ing Edwards had the right idea, he just wasn't the man for the job.

No dumbass, I was behind the trade that sent Allen to the Vikings.
And I wanted to draft Dorsey.

Stop talking out of your ass.

The biggest dumbass to slip out of his mother's mouth and into her vagina is here, so no, there isn't any intelligent talk here either.

All I wanted was to discuss the chiefs, and you turn it south.

In 2005? That's a bit of an exaggeration.

Romeo Crennel
Dom Capers
Norv Turner
Jim Haslett
Joe Vitt (Rams)
Dennis Green
Mike Nolan

I'd take Herm over any of those guys as head coach.

Not that that's saying much.

Yeah, you come here talking about the firing Herman ****ing Edwards as the worst move on a forum that has told you over and over that Herman ****ing Edwards is a dumbass, and you expected to get a warm welcome.

What did you expect?

Oh, wait, look at the dumbass I'm asking.

IT'S a INTERNET FORUM I'LL STATE MY OPINION

I've always wondered: Does it hurt to be stupid?

It's hurts me to read stupid.

Just curious.

Thanks in advance!

Sorry Dane, but Norv Turner is the only one of that group that might make me think.

But I'd only pause for a second before choosing Norv over Herman ****ing Edwards if you put a gun to my head and told me that was my only choice.

YOU LIKE HERM EDWARDS TO YOU DUMB PRICK

And when you state your stupid opinion dumbass, then prepare to be told you are a dumbass, dumbass.

LMAO

Good god, it's not humanly possible to be this ****ing stupid.

It's just not.

LMAO