Nate Solder?? That guy got his cock pulled through his ass almost every game I saw him play.

REALLY? I have only seen 3 or 4 of his games this year and he looked great. I'll watch him more closely at the Senior Bowl and reserve judgement.

Want to bet whether he goes in the first round or not? Currently I have him rated right around the 10-20 range, so he fits our pick pretty well. We need Oline help and I don't see any Centers being worth our 1st round pick.

I'd prefer we get NT and WR taken care of first and then get a center or guard (like Cannon) in the 2nd or 3rd... but OT in the first wouldn't kill me.

I've been bitching about our line since midseason... I firmly believe that our offense isn't going anywhere without serious upgrades to the line.

Oh, I think he'll go in the first round, I just think that he's a soft player who can get pushed around very easily.

He got absolutely destroyed against Missouri in a game that Aldon Smith missed this year, and the year before

Here's his tape from Missouri in 2009. Dude gets the piss beaten out of him over and over again.

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Dude, if THIS is what you are going off from, you aren't giving him a fair shake or you don't judge OT talent very well... This is by far not his best performance but he definitely didn't get the piss beaten out of him.

I'll wait until I have seen more film, but my initial reaction is that he will be a solid pro and could be a GREAT pro if he adds more weight and gets decent coaching.

Just a tidbit on Mayock, I was watching practice today on NFLN and they were listening in to the huddle and Mayock is doing play by play acting all that like he knows what play they are calling, he says okay, here is a boot, QB is either gonna run or throw to the guy in the flat or someone dragging across the backside and lo and behold it was a freaking bomb down the right sideline!

I laughed my ass off and muted the TV for the rest of the practice. :D

He's a height/weight project, IMO.

That isn't the entirety of my experience in watching him, it's just an example.

I think he'll really struggle against bullrushers at the next level

Here he is against Cameron Jordan (at times):

It's some of the most embarrassing tape you'll ever see.

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I agree with this unless he can bulk up.

um,, nope, I saw TWICE in the 2nd clip where he was beat (badly) and I saw quite a few really good plays...

Are we watching the same guy? #78 the LEFT TACKLE?

I don't think you are giving him a fair eval at all.

BTW I HATE CU with a passion, so this isn't a homer pick by me...

He gets destroyed as much as humanly possible at :58 and 1:12, which led to a sack-fumble and an interception. At 1:12, he gives up a QB hit, commits a penalty, and causes an interception.

He gets his ass whipped on a short drop at 2:00

He gives up another sack at 2:45

He gets blown up by a spin move at 3:20, but the entire pocket collapsed, so the QB got out before he could give up another pressure or sack

He lets the RE get in across his face because he can't push him off the line in run blocking, and that leads to a play getting stoned at 3:40

He lets another guy get across his face at 4:05

He gets beat around the edge yet again on the final play, but the QB got the ball out quick.

"Some good plays, some bad" is just wantonly dishonest.

C'mon Hamas.

Solder gave up one sack in the entire 2010 season and from all accounts, he's killing guys at the Senior Bowl practices.

The guy has grown leaps and bounds every season and he was on everybody's "All-American" list at the end of 2010.

He's got excellent weight room strength, has very good hip/waist and knee bend and has the athleticism to effectively get into the second level and engage linebackers and D-backs. He's also a smart kid who has put in a ton of effort to grow into the position. Everyone talks about his drive and desire to get better every day.

Add to that he's got a ton of room to put on another 20 lbs. on his frame and not even show it. The guy will end up playing at 335 and look good doing it.

I'd be shocked if he wasn't the first tackle off the board come draft day. And I don't give two shits about CU or anybody that plays there. However, Solder and the cornerback, Smith, are legit first/second round talents.

I'd take Cam Jordan over Solder at 21.

If Jordan is there at 21 and the Chief's pass on him, I'm done with the Chiefs. I know it's not a pressing need but this guy is a monster. I've got to think he goes between 10 and 15, maybe higher.

LOL, did you really post this?

Put your hands up and slowly back away from the keyboard.......

That's great. Let's draft yet another defensive end in the first round so one of them can ride the pine for 90% of the snaps. I think that's the smartest thing anyone has ever said about the Chiefs and their drafts. That would really get us over the hump to have three first round 3-4 defensive ends on the roster. (And that's three out of the last four years.) Utterly brilliant draft move if they made it.

I can only hope that if the Chiefs do have the opportunity to draft Jordan and pass on him, you stick to your word and cease to be a Chiefs fan. I suspect that the collective IQ of Chiefs fans everywhere would actually raise.

This. Drafting another DE is slightly more stupid than drafting another LT to replace Albert when the Chiefs have much greater needs... right, Sac?

Not really. By drafting a real left tackle, it would allow the Chiefs to push Albert inside to left guard and, viola!, we've upgrade two positions of need in one single deft draft day maneuver.

However, neither Dorsey nor Jackson are 3-4 nose tackles, and as such, if we spent a first rounder yet again on a five tech defensive end it would mean that one of those highly paid first round selections will be on the bench for the vast majority of snaps.

So, in summary drafting another five tech DE is nothing like drafting a competent left tackle.

KC has Lilja and spent a 3rd rounder on Asamoah. Moving Albert inside would mean KC wasted a draft pick and/or a free agent.

Plus, it doesn't look like there will be a player who is likely to be better than Albert at the 21st pick. There will be several DE's likely to be better than TJax.

Anybody we draft at 21 isn't taking Albert's job, he's taking Richardson's.

He gave up two in that game alone, dumbass.

If you draft another 3-4 DE, you allow Smith to play NT full time, upgrading two positions at once. We need depth at 5-techs as our defense has demonstrated repeatedly last year.

Could just mean that we improved our O line as well as made it deeper. Make them all compete and let the winners start and the other guys be backups. We can get by with Albert he's O.k. But that's all he is unless he improves some more. Which he could but is A just O.K. LT good enough to beat teams like Balt, Pitts and the Jets in the playoffs? We can't really even block SD and Oakland.

Anytime this season when we had to pass the good Ds overwhelmed our whole O line. So we need to be better across the board not just the interior.

That said if we draft a stud OLB in the 1st I'd be good with that.


PhilFree:arrow:

Solder seems good against speed rushes ill give him that. But anyone who has a slight bull rush could give him considerable problems...

Watch that Cal tape and notice how many times guys get around his chop step and under his pads. It was a massacre.

Theres just something akward about his footwork..

I wouldnt touch him in the draft.

Stunningly, one of the guys from NFLDC says that Solder was a turnstile this week and consistently got beaten across his face. "Couldn't move to his right to stop anyone".

As I said before, I need to see more film.. anything at this point is just guesswork for me... but I still wouldn't be surprised to see him succeed at the next level.

As per NFLDC, I trust very few internet talent evaluators ... Walter from Walter Football may actually be functionally reeruned and people seem to listen to him every year... same with Mike Florio.

Truth be told, I trust YOUR opinion on him more than most of the faceless internet pundits.

btw... as of a week ago, NFLDC had Solder going #22.. so it's safe to say that no one has any idea at this point...

They still said he has huge upside, which is true, but he also has a good deal of very troublesome tape.

The guy could be an elite left tackle if he fulfills his athletic potential, but for as good as he is at getting to the second level, he seems to struggle in space against pass rushers. It's an odd dichotomy.

Lack of experience and coaching IMHO.. he is a converted TE... if he bulks up and gets lucky with a goad coach at the next level... he could be great... I'll revisit this more when I have more info on him.

What I'd be worried about if I were looking at him as a prospect is that he kind of reminds me of a much better Gerald Cadogan. Both guys are tremendously talented, and both had elite intangibles, but they both seem to have a softness that is incompatible with the talent jump.

YMMV.

Solder got his ass whipped in pass pro on multiple occasions in the Senior Bowl.

I think it's been a consistent that the defensive linemen usually have the upperhand over the offensive linemen at the Senior Bowl.

As with Solder, I thought that Costanzo, in the Senior Bowl, didn't look half as good as what he showed over the course of his career.

And Solder is a bit of a project, but there is no denying his amazing athleticism at his size. He did have a very good Senior season where he was first team Walter Camp, first team AP AA, etc., etc., etc.

Between Solder, Costanzo, Carimi and Ziemba, you've got four guys who are vitually identical. All above 6'7", 300 lbs. and incredibly long, pretty athletic for their sized and all show very good skill sets. They'd all fit in Haley's offensive scheme on either side.

I think it's a very real possibility that the Chiefs would consider one of these guys in the first round if they were sitting there when the teams draft pick came up.

Not this shit again.

If he says it enough years in a row he'll eventually be right. Kind of like people saying "the world is ending!" for hundreds of years.

Albert isn't going anywhere so this whole point in stupid unless you are talking taking a RT. I'm all for taking a RT in the 1st round of the draft when you have your franchine QB, a great core or WR's and a pretty stout defense and may move him over to LT some day.. EX Packers taking Baluga.

I'm just trying to be realistic. Richardson was pulled from a game because he was missing his blocks. Callaghan might actually be worse. And Albert is, at best, mediocre. And that's it for tackles on this team. There is no depth and a low talent level. That's a fact.

However, for whatever reason, people around here still think that the Chiefs can win the Super Bowl by picking yet another defensive player in the first round and populating their offensive line with undrafted free agents.

Good luck with that, especially when we get to line up against Ndamukong Suh, Clay Matthews, Jared Allen and Julius Peppers and the rest of the NFC North next season plus the Steelers and Patriots and Colts. (Not too mention the four games against the Raiders and Chargers, who were second in the NFL in sacks last season, plus the return of Dumervil.)

You're really going to get a first hand look at the quality of our offensive line this next season.

I guess the difference is our view of Albert. I think he is above avg at LT and there is really no where to move him anyways unless he flips over to RT which I doubt. Our interior line will be either Waters, Asamoah, Lilja or Asamoah and Lija at guard. Richardson is pretty good at run blocking but is a pass blocking liabiilty. If we want to upgrade that fine, but not in first round. I would to that through FA or a middle round pick.

I don't think pass protection was all that bad in the Ravens game either. There was just nobody open. If you want to improve the line get some WR that can get seperation so Cassell doesn't have to hold the ball so long.

However, the defense got shredded a few times this year, most notable against the Chargers and Broncos. A NT that can push the pocket and another OLB that can actually get pressure, or a WR or 2 that has speed will make a much more noticable impatct on the team then another OL in my opinion.

I also don't think you get someone at 21 that is an upgrade to Albert this year.

Of the top level tackles, I think I'd prefer Carimi at this point.

Wow you are an IDIOT! Richardson was NOT pulled from a game for missing multiple blocks! Even "if" that was the reason, the solution would not be to put O'Callaghan in his place. That would only make the problem worse.

The reason B-Rich was pulled is b/c he had a false start on n 3rd and goal from the 3. It was his second false start on the day and he was pulled b/c his lack of focus was hurting the team. Two plays later, Cassel was sacked and we turned it over on downs. That said, it definitely fired Richardson up and he didn't have any more false starts the rest of the day.


2nd Qtr.

1-10-KC 36 (10:58) (Run formation) PENALTY on KC-67-B.Richardson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at KC 36 - No Play.

3rd Qtr.

- 3-3-DEN 3 (9:25) (Shotgun) PENALTY on KC-67-B.Richardson, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 3 - No Play.

-3-8-DEN 8 (8:21) 25-J.Charles left tackle to DEN 2 for 6 yards (52-J.Hunter).

-4-2-DEN 2 (7:37) 7-M.Cassel sacked at DEN 15 for -13 yards (57-M.Haggan).

No points on that drive. Richardson had a problem with false starts all year. Missing blocks isn't why he was pulled, everyone missed blocks that day. The Broncos blitzed the whole game and these players hadn't been coached well enough to pick them up.

Cassel holds the ball. It's what he does. He's a poor man's Rothlisberger. He also doesn't see the field very well. The guy needs all the protection that he can get in passing situations. Any upgrade that the Chiefs can make to the offensive line is welcomed. (Look at how impactful the additions of Lilja and Wiegmann were this year, and we're talking about two undersized guys who can't hold the point of attack very well. Good line players, especially Wiegmann, but the guy is 38.)

Actually, I think you can. It depends on how the draft falls, but I think that Carimi, Costanzo or Solder would be an upgrade as they all have better skill sets as blindside protectors over Albert. (Albert has no kick step and isn't fast enough to make adjustments to speed rushers. He's a lunger.)

Having Albert slide into LG would upgrade that particular position as Waters continues to age. (He's a good guard, but he doesn't move his feet as well as he did in the past.) Draft a guy a center in the fourth or beyond (Taylor or Kirkpatrick would be very acceptable at that point), and think about even moving Asamoah over to the RT spot (he looked pretty comfortable at the LT spot when Albert got injured in one of the games this year - I thought he looked better than Albert did) or drafting a guy like Barksdale, Gilbert, Brewer or Morris in the second or beyond.

With the Chiefs drafting 21st this year, most of the top level impact playmakers that fit their scheme (Von Miller, AJ Green, Julio Jones) are going to be off the board. Taking one of the top tackles is not that bad of a concept rather than reaching for a second level receiver or linebacker (Houston had a nice 2010 season, but he's a bit of a one year wonder at this point and I haven't seen anything that suggests he's anything more than a pure pass rusher, which the LOLB spot in a 3-4 does not require).

I also think that Phil Taylor is a huge reach in the first. He's prototype for the position, but he hasn't shown much passion or desire up until this off-season when it's time for him to try to make a buck or two. His career was marked with a lot of immaturities while at Penn State and a lack of production while at Baylor.

I think that the #2 WR position needs a guy that can run impeccable routes and has great hands would be a better fit for this team and this scheme than a speed guy. But a #2 wide receiver needs to be found. There is a number of guys in this draft that should be available in the second or third round that fit the bill. (Hankerson or Pettis would be really nice around there and because both lack the top end timed speed, they aren't going to be first rounders though Hank might have slipped into the bottom of the first round with his impressive Senior Bowl. Depending upon how he runs at the Combine/Pro Day, it will either drop or elevate him. Right now, I think he and Pettis are pretty equal in terms of their skillset and speed.)

I think that the Chiefs are in a prime position to upgrade the tackle position with a quality guy in this draft. Next year's record will most likely not be as good as this years record (the schedule is absolutely brutal next year and the matchups aren't favorable for the Chiefs), and they might be back drafting in the top ten in 2012. Getting a guy, who, at the very least, can upgrade the right tackle position would be a good thing for this team.

So, you're saying that the players are good, it's the coaches that suck? And Richardson having problems with false starts isn't a bad thing. Is that a coaching thing as well?

Whatever. Enjoy your super duper offensive line against the NFC North and Pittsburgh, the Colts and New England in 2011. I'm sure that Richardson will be much improved (or at least get that false start thing worked out) by the start of 2011 and he'll just manhandle guys like Clay Matthews and Peppers.

I hope that the Chiefs draft whatever defensive end you are high on in the first this year. It will go a long way to making the team better. It's good to have balance...

The funny thing about pulling Richardson is that O'Callaghan immediately whiffed on a block that led to the 4th down play completely blowing up.

I'm in no way doubting your observations or questioning your opinion, but Wisconsin offensive lineman scare me. It *seems* like they all have a hard time transitioning to the NFL.

Other than Kraig Urbik, I can't think of any recent Wisconsin lineman who busted.

Thomas worked out fine. Mark Tauscher and Casey Rabach are the other Badger lineman currently in the NFL.

Maybe I'm missing something :shrug:

Urbik and Aaron Gibson come to mind.

I'm probably over-reacting. :D

I just don't think that the problem with our line is either of the tackles. I think it's the center and to a lesser extent guards.
Richardson has certainly missed some blitz pickups, but he's a young player. It happens. He's also a mauler in the run game, and I think he has upside. No reason to think he won't continue to improve.
I think Albert is pretty good, frankly. I think people who think he is not have been spoiled for life by watching Willie Roaf for a few years. Nobody ever did it as well as Roaf, so that's kind of not a fair lens to view Albert through.

Biggest problem with line is Bill Muir.

So, out of our offensive line this past season, you think that Wiegmann and Lilja and Waters was the weak link?

Yeah...

So, that he's "young" he gets a pass? Ask Cassel next season after the Green Bay and Chicago and Detroit game if it "happens."

Weiggman, yes. Waters and Lilja were serviceable, with Asamoah ready to come in. Yes, when 3 teams dismantled our team this year with blitz after blitz, its obvious the players don't know their job, which falls on coaching. Either that or Weiggman/Cassel weren't calling them out. Richardson wasn't the only guy not picking up blitzes, they all let guys through.

Absolutely.

Asamoah played as well or better than Waters or Lilja and he's a rookie. His upside is enormous.

Weigmann constantly had his shit pushed and was the primary reason the Chiefs went outside on 3rd and short.

You could say that Casey Wiegmann is one of the primary culprits, on the offensive side, for our loss to Houston. His inability to generate any kind of a push in the running game is one of the reasons why we often had such bizarre 4th and short calls.

And sadly he was still an upgrade from Rudy.

I think he probably slides in and plays center this year. I'm just not seeing Lilja or Waters go anywhere. If one goes I think Waters gets traded.

What gives you that idea?

Asamoah has not taken a single snap at any position other than guard for five straight seasons.

I think it was talked about when he was drafted last year by the talking heads and also mentioned in his scouting report. I just don't see him sitting another year. The only way he plays G next year is if Waters is traded.

Kind of agree with you BigCat. If the Chiefs don't draft a Center, I think they could consider Asamoah at that spot. I'm pretty sure in college he did practice at center from what I remember.

From NFLDraftScout.com
Post-Draft Outlook: A closer look at the Chiefs' picks: Round 3/68 -- Jon Asamoah, C/G, 6-4, 305, Illinois, A talented interior blocker who can also play center, Asamoah has the nasty attitude the Chiefs hope to foster with the blockers under Weis and O-Line coach Bill Muir. - by The Sports Xchange

Actually his biggest knock as a guard if I remember right, was his size/strength. We'll see.

It's nonsense. There were NO "talking head" mentioning that he could play center. There were a couple of "scouting reports" by lame internet scouts that claimed he "could" play center but it was pure and utter speculation.

The fact is that the guy was a four year starter in college at the right guard position and he has far more upside than Waters or Lilja (who gets pushed around far too often for my taste).

That's ****ing bullshit.

Did you see any evidence this past season when he started in place of Lilja or played when Waters was hurt that he had a "strength" issue?

Didn't say it was my knock did I? Kind of helps that we run a zone blocking scheme though eh?

He has practiced there, which is a good start. He's also a smart guy, so he could play center. Also, he started three years.

From KcChiefs.com

College: Versatile offensive lineman joined Kansas City as the club’s first of two third-round selections (68th overall) in the 2010 NFL Draft ... Can play either guard position and also practiced at center during his collegiate career ... Cemented his position along the offensive line at Illinois, starting three straight years at right guard ... Played in 42 games, starting 37 consecutive games during his final three seasons ... Earned second-team All-Big Ten honors as a senior ... Was selected to the National Football Foundation’s 16-man Scholar-Athlete team.

No, I was speaking in general.

I think it's nonsense that some dopey website can state something that has no bearing in reality, yet people quote that website ad nauseam without using their noggin.

He started 37 games. He started from game five of his freshman year.

Furthermore, practice in college is far different than practice in the NFL.

In short, I'll believe it when I see it and I seriously doubt I'll ever see it. He's far too important as a guard than as a center.

The organization thought enough of it to mention it on their profile of him on the web site.

On draft day.

Propaganda, pure and simple.

Either way I say they try to squeeze Waters, Lilja and Asamoah into the interior 3 this year one way or another.

What do you THINK will happen? Not what do you want to see happen.

Who gives a shit? Eric Berry was a HS QB, it doesn't mean he's fit to play that position in the NFL.

Squeeze? So, you're suggesting that they play Lilja and Asamoah out of position, just because they can?

****, I hope not.

I see Laz's bullshit idea of them switching all the lineman around is creeping through the fanbase.

Do the Chiefs list that under his profile on their web site?

And that means exactly what?

Asamoah took no snaps at center in any regular season or PS game. He started at guard for the entirety of his college career. Practicing at center in college. Wow.

I guess the Patriots should start giving Edelman reps as the scout team QB since he played the position in college, or perhaps the Bears should play Urlacher at safety.

We could play Berry at quarterback since that's what he played in high school. Cassel could be our tight end. (Shit, he couldn't possibly be any worse than Pope.)

But then, we did put Branden Albert at left tackle after he played guard his entire college career and the majority around here seem fine with that ongoing project.

Apparently, Chiefs fans love moving guys to brand new positions after never having played them.

Lilja will remain at RG. Remember Waters was originally brought in to play center and if he could have fit the ball under his ass when snapping it probably would still be there. Asamoah WILL start somewhere so that leaves Waters to either play LG, C or be traded since he won't be a backup. So Waters slides to C or Asamoah plays C if BOTH are still on the team. Do you dispute that fact? Personally I think Waters makes the more natural transition especially with his experience.

Again, I ask what do you THINK will happen?

It speaks to what the team might be thinking about using him at a different position. I don't advocate moving him. I'm just trying to figure out whether or not it's plausible that the Chiefs might move him to Center. It seems odd to me that the Chiefs would mention that he practiced at Center in his profile (second sentence of the section, no less) if it didn't mean anything. That's not to say that it necessarily does mean something, but it provides a little insight.

Now I know why you're in the red.

:facepalm:

They learned that from the other side of the parking lot.

Yeah, I guess my first Rep under the new system came from Hamas for this. I think is upset he would have lost our loser leave the board bet last year on Bradford having a better Rookie QB rating then Sanchez.

"There more then that IMO like Rivers and Orton, but that's a whole different arguement.

Throwing accuracy and leadership abilities are the most important qualities in a QB. Football IQ and durability are up there as well, but college system is way down the line of things teams now look at. That's why I knew Bradford would be a success in the NFL despite all the nay sayers on the board. Accuracy and leadership were never in question with him.

It's also the reason despite all the 1st round QB grades this year, I'm not a fan of guys like Locker and Mallet who are missing one or the other of the key makings of a good QB. Gabbert and Newton I believe have both of those so they can play in the league. It's just a matter of being able to take it to another level.
"

Dude, you bitch but never give your take. Who will play and who will sit?

You never give it a rest do you?

In spite of the the fact that Albert still hasn't mastered the position, in the last two years, he has given up one fewer sack than Ryan Clady, the guy that everyone points to as the psoter boy LT.

Your boy, Russel Okung, gave up 4 sacks in 10 games.

How the **** do I know? The personnel decisions have been questionable throughout Haley's tenure.

Furthermore, there's no CBA, we're weeks away from the Combines and months away from the draft. Trying to predict who will be the opening day starters on the offensive line is an exercise in futility.