I Cassel does pan out the we are one year ahead. It's all give and take.

Assuming that only 3 come out, I'd expect one to drop into the teens. They're not all going top 10.

I guess I didn't make my point exactly clear here. Do I think we overpaid for an average QB? Absolutely. Would a pro bowl level QB with a cannon arm and pinpoint accuracy, along with flawless decision making be helpful? Without a doubt. But, the Cassel deal is a done deal, like it or not, and what he does bring to the table is a servicable package although there is a high probability that he'll never see a pro bowl or the hall of fame. And, right now IMHO, we have bigger fish to fry as far as needs are concerned, and you don't waste draft picks and/or big FA money on one position such as QB when you have other glaring areas that suck worse than the QB right now. Like run defense/pass rush and pass protection/blocking. Maybe a receiver that can consistently catch the damn ball. Thats the point I was trying to make was that I think we have bigger areas of need right now before an upgrade at QB becomes feasible. Take care of the things that are killing you the worst before looking at luxury upgrades that you can do without for now. You gotta see the big picture here, and right now there are things this team as a whole needs a hell of alot worse than a QB. Which is why I think we passed on Clausen or any other QB out there for that matter. Just my .02.

28-year-old QBs don't pan. We know what he is.

They were also selling the idea that they were looking to trade up and Earl Thomas and Berry were their targets. They instead traded up, passed on Thomas at a great value, and drafted Graham. There are multiple sources that seem to be reporting that McCluster was Philly's pick and almost every draft guru is saying it was a great pick for the spot. I'm a lot more likely to believe the post-draft buzz than the pre-draft buzz that's filled with smokescreens.

Cassel is what he is.

To be fair it still could be BS and misinformation being "leaked" to benefit a team one way or the other. It seems to me that more and more that NFL teams feel they have the freedom to lie and plant false stories in the media and leak to bloggers to benefit their own aims.

You can't look at it that way... this is the QB position. People are so bent on having any QB. You aren't one year behind anything, these guys come out when they come out. You'd be better to wait for a great one than reach for one in an average class.

There were two areas I believe we whiffed. I think they should have traded up from 50 for Clausen, but then, I think Carolina taking him was sort of a surprise pick based on how well Matt Moore played toward the end of the season. I also think we whiffed by not making some kind of a trade into the 6th round when we saw Lefevour was still on the board.

The good news is, they let the scouts run the draft and not let a coach dominate the draft. The bad news is, I agree, we lost a potential franchise QB in the process. But granted, if Clausen fell that low, I can guarantee there was more to it than character.

Okay, lets look at Clausen. Decent talent, but a headcase. So, why take a guy marginally ahead of Cassel in terms of talent, and pretty much already at his ceiling, when he has an attitude problem and, according to some, a recurring toe injury? The kid has the entitlement complex. Weis knew that better than anyone else. Why draft someone you know expects it given to him?

Kindle- Off field issues, somewhat immature, AND he has knee issues. Some think that he will need micro-fracture surgery.

Tate- A guy who is only an inch taller than McCluster and isn't as shifty. He can't come out of the backfield. He is faster in a straight line, but is not as athletic and he doesn't move his hips as well. He just doesn't fit as well coming out of the slot.... and he is smaller than preferred on the outside.

Cody-He has work ethic issues. And, returner is a bigger need than NT for this year.

Mays-Workout warrior.... underachiever on the field.


Okay, so instead of these guys, who are either average like Tate or Mays.... or have reasons to believe that they are probably going to be out of the league soon..... like Cody, Clausen, and Kindle...... they took one of the best playmakers in the draft. A guy that will give the Chiefs offense a real spark and offers them a mismatch. He can go anywhere on the field and he can make plays.

And, you draft the best returner in the draft. I am sure that Hester is worth his second round pick.... and, Arenas can actually play corner. He is a good, very smart, nickel corner.


The Chiefs took elite talent at their roles over 'decent' starters. I am okay with that.

I agree, but in this particular instance... we weren't going to draft the guy the Eagles picked, so there was no reason to lead us to McCluster.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the Chiefs were in the perfect situation. The Chiefs could have drafted Clausen at #36 and it would have been the perfect situation for everyone.

1. The Chiefs get a QBoTF if Cassel doesn't pan out.

2. Clausen would come cheap as shit and he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

3. IF Cassel does pan out....then Clausen can sit and be an awesome backup for a couple of years. Look at the McNab/Kolb situation. That would have been us.

But now if Cassel sucks...we're back to square one. If Cassel is good....then we're going to be going QB sometime soon because Cassel isn't ****ing young.

Since this drfat didn't have a QB that I really cared to take, I have no prblem with passing on QB.

But QB is a luxury?

LMAO

The inverse is also true: If Cassel doesn't work out, the next QB walks into a situation with a young but veteran offensive line along with at least two dynamic offensive players in Charles and McCluster (not to mention Bowe).

Pioli is just taking a different route than what some people expected (playmakers vs. NT & ILB, etc.).

It well could be that Weiss wanted Clausen but that Pioli asked him whether Clausen would be exponentially better than Cassel. Because, bringing in Clausen would be disruptive, leaving us in a position like when Quinn and Anderson were in Cleveland. We didn't need to burn #36 for a QB who was a modest upgrade over Cassel. I have to believe if Clausen was night and day better, Pioli might have used #36 to take him.

There are 3-4 good QBs avalable next year. Most teams have solved their QB problems. Oakland has Campbell. Cleveland got McCoy. Panthers got Clausen. Rams have Bradford. So, that leaves the Bills (unless Broehm or Edwards has a good year), the Redskins, and the Vikings needing QBs next year. The Vikes will pick behind us, so we could get one of the top 3 easily enough. There is no certainty that the Skins or Bills will want to use their #1 for a QB anyway.

So, we get another year to see if Cassel rises to the occasion. If not, we are in excellent position to take a potential QBOTF next season, even though we might win enough games that we only have the 16th pick.

I agree to a point.

But it worries me that a supposedly franchise QB was passed on 49 times. There has to be something to it. I was as high on Clausen as anyone, but something tells me there's more than just character concerns here.

yeah no shit. considering it was CW that recruiting the mother****er to ND.

You are right. Cassel isn't a 'great' QB. He probably never will be a 'great' QB. He is what he is. He is a hard worker. He is a great leader. He will be a good game manager.

So, when the Chiefs have the opportunity to grab one of the great ones.... they need to do it. It isn't someone like Clausen who has entitlement issues and a slightly better than average arm. This isn't Matthew Stafford here.

Now, I will say that I don't think that the Chiefs will have a chance to draft a QB in the top ten again for a while. On paper, they look like an 8-8 club. So, that puts them middle of the pack. That probably means that they won't draft a franchise QB unless they luck into one.

All that said, it is still better than wasting a pick on Clausen. He may be a great QB someday, but just coming to the Chiefs wouldn't have helped him. #1) He has had Weis for the last three years. He would have felt even more entitled than he already does. He needed to have the wake up call of not being drafted by Weis. He needed to have the wake up call that the immaturity that he has shown is not acceptable.

I still think the Panthers won't see much out of him.... but at least they got him in the best possible scenario.

Cassel is NOT a great leader. We hope this improves. And we hope that he'll be a good game manager.

Right now, what "he is" is a piece of shit. 44/46.

Clausen would be drafted by his old head coach which would have excused him immaturity and perpetuated bad behavior.

Cassel isn't old. He has 9 years or so left in the league. Second round draft picks sign three years deals. He would be long gone by then.

Clausen wouldn't do well as a backup. He would undermine Cassel. It is one thing to compete for a starting spot, it is another thing to pout when it doesn't happen.

Clausen is a tool. He has always been a tool, and the one good thing that happened is that his former head coach didn't want him on this team. That may wake him up and help him to realize that the world doesn't revolve around him.

Lol cassel is the man.

1. You think it's safe to say that Cassel will play until he's 37? We're not talking about an elite athlete; we're talking about a JAG.

2. Guess work.

3. Ok. Umm...

Sorry, but you are wrong. He is a good leader. He is a very good leader, and he leads by example, not just words.

Again, if they have the opportunity to draft a top notch QB, they have my blessings. Drafting a QB with only marginally better talent that is also a headcase and has a nagging toe injury.... just doesn't make much sense to me.

Why reach for a QB in a weak class? Seriously. Take a QB when he is going to be much better than what you have, not just marginally better.

All evidence that we have is that he was a complete ****ing joke:

1. Pushing players.
2. Being demonstrative after others' errors
3. Saying that he graded perfectly after embarrassingly poor performances.

Just because you want him to be a leader, doesn't mean that he is. In all areas, he's a worthless sack of shit.

1) Fine, then seven more years. Clausen is still gone. But, yeah, I think he will play until he is 37 if he pans out. Why? He missed many years of playing. He has very little wear and tear on his body. (well, until last year) and he won't be bored with it.

2) Says you. He is an entitled prick who is lucky that he is going to a brand new coaching staff.




The love of Clausen is mind boggling even after he has dropped to the middle of the second round.... where, we all know that 'franchise' QB's aren't drafted.

Heck, the team that drafted him didn't even have him in for a private visit..... they didn't know him well enough to realize he is an entitled prick apparently.

It is the best spot for him. He could be successful, but the Clausen love? Unbelievable.

In fairness, he stepped into a difficult situation and had almost nothing to work with. A new team, new coaching staff, the offense was changed with only a week or so left in the preseason, no playmakers until Charles emerged, receivers who couldn't catch a cold, and a horrible offensive line.

I agree that he is going to have to have a better season but I think a wait and see approach is a warranted before we deem him a "piece of shit."

Cassel leads by example?

What example would that be?

That you can start in the NFL with no college football experience? :shrug:

Excellent points. Too many strikes against the position right off the bat to make a fair assessment.

True. All sorts of difficult circumstances were facing him.

But I didn't think he was a high-quality player before we acquired him, so I'm loath to "wait and see" anything. I understand your perspective, but if you hated something from the on-set, it pretty much demands evidence to begin to shift your opinion.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Everyone here has a source and that source always supports their opinion. IT's stupid beyond belief. I don't believe a word of this shit.

And the single biggest strike against him was that he's not very talented.

If this is true, and Weis wanted nothing to do with him, I'll eat my crow and be happy we passed on him. Truly. Weis should know about Jimmy more than anyone. That's good enough for me.

This

Clausen was dead to me after we passed on him with 2A. Throw that together with the rest of the NFL passing on him mulitple times and the only fair assessment is that he is a dumpster fire.

He's 27. That's not old by any means. If he were a RB he might have 3 years left. For QB's, that's just entering the prime.

I really don't think that Weis wanted Clausen that bad. They could have taken him at 5, they didn't. They could have traded back up into the first to get him, they didn't. They could have taken him at 2a, they didn't. They could have traded up a few spots at 2b, they didn't. Same thing happened with Golden Tate, we passed.

We may have manufactured in our own minds and through various rumors that Weis really wanted his guys, when the reality may be that once he became a coordinator at the NFL level, he looked at it and said there wasn't a huge need to get these guys at this level. Weis may have been more concerned with how he could manufacture more points this year than who can be a QB down the road. And another thing we're forgetting is that Weis was hired in large part to help Matt Cassel succeed, not to help replace Matt Cassel. If the first thing you do is replace the QB, then it doesn't say much about your supposed ability to coach up QB's, especially one that Josh McDaniels supposedly coached up to a good year.

And again, I think we're overstating the influence Cassel has in the decision to bypass Clausen. I think it has more to do with the regime having confidence in Brodie Croyle. They seem to believe that Croyle still has the ability to be a starting QB, and that if Cassel fails, he has the ability to step in. That's what I take from all of Haley's comments on Croyle last year, and the decision to get rid of Thigpen. I don't necessarially agree with it, but they like Croyle...

Well, he may not have had the type of season we all hoped for but he did handle all that adversity admirably in only his second full season as a starter. Which does say something about his character and leadership, IMO.

I can understand your thinking there. When we got Cassel, my mindset wasn't so much that I was against giving him a shot(I knew Glassman Croyle wasn't our answer), but I thought we overpaid for a commodity that hadn't been around long enough to prove himself as an NFL starter. And 60+ million is a lot of cash to have out on a QB that the jury is still out on. I can really see your opinion here.

do you ever STFU? good lord! i bet you annoy the shit out of everyone around you. that guy in the group that everyone kinda dislikes, thats you.

We also had the opportunity to get Brady Quinn, Weis' other college QB, for dirt cheap too and passed. So again, if Charlie really wanted one of his old QB's, it's hard to believe that we'd pass on multiple opportunities to get them...

If Haley had lost (or was even losing) the locker room, no way does the team play like that down the stretch or kick ass in Denver. All we have to go on in this regard is the effort on the field. These guys did not lay down and wait for the season to end.

That's what I thought too. Works hard, loves football, good character guy.

What I can't get over is the way he seems to lose his composure sometimes and openly shows his frustration. I also never got the sense that he was "rallying the troops." Much as I hate Sanchez, the one thing I really see in him is a fire that seems contagious. Cassel doesn't seem to have that. It's almost like when the going gets tough, he'd rather sit on the bench and pout.

Essentially, KC is in the Gabbert/Andrew Luck sweepstakes now. It doesn't matter how they tried to add "weapons" to make a 4 yard pass into a 15 yard gain. D-cordinators will tell their DBs to undercut those routes and it will lead to a pick 6.

Good post.

This is what I have been saying all along. :thumb: But even I give him just this coming year to show something.

It's hard to believe Weis wanted nothing to do with Clausen, or Tate for that matter, when those two were the primary reason why his collegiate coaching career had any glimmer of hope whatsoever.

My source says we should expect a total surprise with our 2nd round picks.

Kiper said it on Friday night before the McCluster pick: Make no mistake, this is Scott Pioli's draft.

I have a hard time believing that either coordinator was on board with either pick in R2, considering the talent on the board at the time.

Not that hard for me to believe. He's seen more of them than anyone, but that doesn't mean what he saw made him believe they were NFL caliber.

Yeah, I am sure they were dead set against it. I am sure that having no input would be appealing to two well established coordinators that had other opportunities. I am sure that basically getting told to STFU would sit well with them.

Are you really that dense?

Those two kept him from being fired a lot earlier than he was.

Mel Kiper is an excellent evaluator of college talent. What he doesn't have is connections to NFL teams to know who is pulling the strings and who is involved in helping with the draft board.

If you truly believe that Charlie Weis's knowledge of college players is going to be ignored after he spent the last 5 years recruiting players and studying far more game film than basically everyone then I don't know what to tell you.

But these elements don't have to be mutually exclusive, necessarily. In other words, Pioli can respect Weis's opinions about Clausen but still make the decision that Cassel is the long-term answer at QB.

Thus, investing significant resources in a QB, when Haley believes Croyle is a competent backup, makes little sense.

"I respect, ya, Charlie, but Matt's my guy."

Us: Screwed.

Why? Who in Pioli's entire tenure in New England does McCluster resemble?

Weis loves RBs who can catch--Faulk was a 700 yard receiver in New England. He loves to run multiple plays from the same formation--it helps to have versatile players (e.g. a tight end who can block AND catch, a RB/WR who can run the ball or motion to the slot) because the defense doesn't know what you're about to do until you start to see players shift around. Weis loves using those formations to shift players over to take advantage of mismatches--you can expect that if he sees McCluster on the field with heavy run personnel, he'll motion him to the slot. And he loves to use screens as a way to keep pressure off the Quarterback--he seems to think that when DEs attack the Quarterback, they become vulnerable to overpursuit, which is when a screen becomes all the more dangerous. His ability to mix those kinds of looks keeps pass rushers on their toes. Finally, in Notre Dame, he ran the Wildcat a lot.

I'd be surprised if Weis isn't excited about what McCluster can do for him.

If Pioli really thought Cassel was the absolute long-term answer at QB, he's not writing that huge bonus into the contract as an escape clause to get out of it if he falls flat on his face. He's spreading the dollars out in the deal and making him the no-bones about it guy for the next 5 years.

Weis does not believe that Clausen is going to be a productive NFL starter. Parcells guys all believe that a QB has to perform at a high level for 3-4 years as a starter in college. Clausen had just one year of that.

Weis likes Jimmy as a person from everything I've heard. But he doesn't think he has the mental makeup to be a true franchise QB. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the info I was given.

Who said they didn't have input, dipshit?

I'm sure they were able to speak their minds, but it doesn't mean that Pioli took what they wanted into consideration.

If RAC wanted a nickle CB over a starting ILB or pass rusher, than God help us all.

I don't know what to make of this, whether I'm convinced or not, but I think it would be foolish for me to try to argue the point, since you're working off things you've been told by people who seem to have pretty decent connections.

Thus, I'll defer.

Pioli has stated that there is a compettion at every position....

Except of course the two players that he traded for. Cassle anf Vrabel's jobs are safe.

Don't you think Weis would have asked that during his interview? He should have known from day 1 if he was going to be allowed to get Clausen or not.
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You think he's going to ask that in the interview? And even if he did, you think he's going to pass on the job if he's told no?

LMAO

He's going to take the job, because it's a way back into the NFL, and hope he can go to work on Pioli.

So the Chiefs job was the only job offered to Weis?
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He had at least one other offer from Chicago... and he had interest by six other teams according to the Chicago Sun times.

Yeah, he was 'desperate'.

A very good blitzing nickel corner who is very bright and knows the game, who will match up well with smaller shifty WR's who play the slot like Eddie Royal. A guy who will also give Crennel a few more yards of field position to work with because he is a great returner.

Yeah, you know, I bet Crennel hates that. I am sure he would have much rather had guys that had character concerns, work ethic issues, injury issues, or average talent.... because those were the kind of guys available when Arenas was taken.

Here is the thing. If Weis isn't sold on Cassel, and Pioli is set against acquiring anyone else....then Weis doesn't come here.

He could have went to Chicago at the very least. Granted, they have their QB as well. But, he could have taken this year off. He could have went back to work next year. He is well respected and would have opportunities.