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-   -   Chiefs ESPN's Bill Williamson Ranks AFCW's Top 40 Players (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=247490)

lcarus 07-23-2011 05:02 PM
Derrick Johnson ahead of Brandon Flowers? Nah..

Mr. Laz 07-23-2011 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7766484)
I disagree in the sense that you should be trying for a QB "every" year, not "every couple of years."

Guys like Stanzi don't get grace periods. They show something or they get the **** out.
yea, i know but imo sometimes it takes more than 1 season to evaluate a QB.

just say this: As soon as your coaches don't think you have "the guy" then you just move on and draft another. No time limit.

DeezNutz 07-23-2011 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 7766522)
just say this: As soon as your coaches don't think you have "the guy" then you just move on and draft another. No time limit.
Agree completely.

BossChief 07-23-2011 05:09 PM
Id be fine with it of they brought in a vet to play backup this year...in fact, I think we must do so.

I'm not saying he deserves a 4 year pass here, just that he shouldn't really be judged one way or another based on his preseason play this year (assuming there is one and recent reports are accurate)

That would be shortsighted.

He is a player that will get better with time.

I totally agree that we should continue to turn over stones till we have a solid group of quarterbacks.

Obviously, I have a lot more faith in Stanzi than 99% of the planet because I have followed his progress over the last three years.

milkman 07-23-2011 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoMoChief (Post 7766321)
how so?
How many comeback wins was given he credit for when it was his stupid interceptions that were directly, or indirectly, responsible for the need to comeback?

How many games did he fail to lead the Pack to a win when it was his interceptions that put his team in position to lose?

Most of his playoff games through his career are interception fests, and he's had a couple in which he's actually played pretty well, but has made boneheaded interceptions that lost games for the Pack.

Quesadilla Joe 07-23-2011 05:18 PM
The media are just a bunch of what have you done for me lately assholes.... Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.

Pasta Little Brioni 07-23-2011 05:22 PM
DOOM is now a gimp (just like that certain WR from Georgia Tech), so down the list he goes.

Gadzooks 07-23-2011 05:41 PM
Why wasn't Stanzi on the list?!? He should have been at least 40 spots ahead of Tebow.

MagicHef 07-23-2011 05:50 PM
BossChief- how do you feel about Ryan Harris not being on this list?

Reaper16 07-23-2011 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadzooks (Post 7766617)
Why wasn't Stanzi on the list?!? He should have been at least 40 spots ahead of Tebow.
He is 40 spots ahead of Tebow, but Bill Williamson just didn't bother posting players #94 through #134.

RealSNR 07-23-2011 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 7766560)
The media are just a bunch of what have you done for me lately assholes.... Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.
Whenever you post something, I have this tune going through my head

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nIDLC8M4R28" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pasta Little Brioni 07-23-2011 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 7766645)
Whenever you post something, I have this tune going through my head

<iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nIDLC8M4R28" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
The little fella thought Denver was a Super Bowl contender last year. No wonder he only watched 4 games ROFL

Backwards Masking 07-23-2011 06:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 7766560)
Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.
He's had injury problems his whole career, that's probably why he was ranked so low. And it is "what have you done for me lately league" like it or not. Elvis was injured most of last year, so he's a question mark coming into this year. The why he's so much lower than Tamba, who had a monster 2010.

That said, when healthy, Elvis is a top notch DE, at least he certainly was in 2009. If his 2011 season comes close to 2009, he'll be back in the top 10. Though he still won't be higher than Tamba :p.

ChiefsCountry 07-23-2011 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGM (Post 7766481)
Too bad like the Bengals game this season, he has come up short when it counts.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...layoff-resumes


Maybe I’m alone in this opinion, but I think Philip Rivers is wildly overrated.

Exhibit A: His career playoff record is 3-4.

Exhibit B: He has never played in a Super Bowl.

Exhibit C: His career playoff stats are as follows:

Game 1 (Loss, 24-21 vs. New England): 14-32, 230 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.

Game 2 (Win, 17-6 vs. Tennessee): 19-30, 292 YD, 1TD, 1 INT.

Game 3 (Win, 28-24 vs. Indianapolis): 14-19, 264 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.

Game 4 (Loss, 21-12 vs. New England): 19-37, 211 YD, 0 TD, 2 INT.

Game 5 (Win, 23-17 vs. Indianapolis): 20-36, 217 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.

Game 6 (Loss, 35-24 vs. Pittsburgh): 21-35, 308 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.

Game 7 (Loss, 17-14 vs. NYJ): 27-40, 298 YD, 1 TD, 2 INT.

For those scoring at home, that’s at best three solid performances in seven postseason games.

The prosecution rests.
He has lost to Brady twice, Rothlisberger once in the playoffs. He has beaten Manning twice. He loses to the guys who are actually better than him, big suprise there when it comes to the playoffs.

Backwards Masking 07-23-2011 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7766551)
How many comeback wins was given he credit for when it was his stupid interceptions that were directly, or indirectly, responsible for the need to comeback?

How many games did he fail to lead the Pack to a win when it was his interceptions that put his team in position to lose?

Most of his playoff games through his career are interception fests, and he's had a couple in which he's actually played pretty well, but has made boneheaded interceptions that lost games for the Pack.
I certainly wouldn't put Favre ahead of Montana or Brady on my list of Best QB's, but I still think I'd put him ahead of Manning and Marino and pretty much everyone that fits in the category of "Great Regular Season QB, not so so great Post Season QB. Except maybe Tarkenton, that guy looked like a hoss.

Backwards Masking 07-23-2011 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 7766690)
He has lost to Brady twice, Rothlisberger once in the playoffs. He has beaten Manning twice. He loses to the guys who are actually better than him, big suprise there when it comes to the playoffs.
So Sanchez is already better than him? :hmmm:

Other than that the point is quite valid though. Taking down Manning in back to back years was impressive.

BossChief 07-23-2011 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef (Post 7766630)
BossChief- how do you feel about Ryan Harris not being on this list?
He has missed 14 games over the last two years.

For a linemen, one of the biggest factors is reliability...so he obviously lost stock due to that factor.

If he hadn't missed any games, he would be borderline and I don't think he'd make it. It'd be close.

If we can't land one of the premier right tackles, I'd be ok with giving him a 2 year deal and let him compete with Barry Richardson (who I'm not a big fan of. I think one of his missed blocks will ultimately put Stanzi on the field too soon)

milkman 07-23-2011 07:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwards Masking (Post 7766692)
I certainly wouldn't put Favre ahead of Montana or Brady on my list of Best QB's, but I still think I'd put him ahead of Manning and Marino and pretty much everyone that fits in the category of "Great Regular Season QB, not so so great Post Season QB. Except maybe Tarkenton, that guy looked like a hoss.
Tarkenton was a lot like Donavan McNabb in that he made a lot of plays during the regular season, but he was far less effective in the post season, even while it appears he put up decent numbers.

He was more mobile than McNabb, but he struggled making plays against good defenses, when it counted.

Edit:I'd put Manning ahead of Favre, but they would be right there with each other.

Gadzooks 07-23-2011 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7766792)
Tarkenton was a lot like Donavan McNabb in that he made a lot of plays during the regular season, but he was far less effective in the post season, even while it appears he put up decent numbers.

He was more mobile than McNabb, but he struggled making plays against good defenses, when it counted.

Edit:I'd put Manning ahead of Favre, but they would be right there with each other.
Where do you put Otto Graham?

milkman 07-23-2011 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadzooks (Post 7766864)
Where do you put Otto Graham?
Too young to remember Graham, so I can't forward any opinion on him.

highBOLTage 07-23-2011 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGM (Post 7766481)
Too bad like the Bengals game this season, he has come up short when it counts.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7...layoff-resumes


Maybe I’m alone in this opinion, but I think Philip Rivers is wildly overrated.

Exhibit A: His career playoff record is 3-4.

Exhibit B: He has never played in a Super Bowl.

Exhibit C: His career playoff stats are as follows:

Game 1 (Loss, 24-21 vs. New England): 14-32, 230 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.
Suffered lisfranc injury in week 17 and didn't practice during bye week; played meh-ly.

Game 2 (Win, 17-6 vs. Tennessee): 19-30, 292 YD, 1TD, 1 INT.
Sprained MCL late in season. First half played poorly; second half well.

Game 3 (Win, 28-24 vs. Indianapolis): 14-19, 264 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.
Played great. Tears ACL last play of 3rd quarter.

Game 4 (Loss, 21-12 vs. New England): 19-37, 211 YD, 0 TD, 2 INT.
Played very well, but the stats are garbage. Couldve possibly turned one of the FGs into a TD if he saw that VJ was open and a bad forced INT immediately after Vrabel's BS uncalled personal foul trip that turned into an INT (thanks for the effort Chris Chambers).

Game 5 (Win, 23-17 vs. Indianapolis): 20-36, 217 YD, 0 TD, 1 INT.
Below average game.

Game 6 (Loss, 35-24 vs. Pittsburgh): 21-35, 308 YD, 3 TD, 1 INT.
Played well. SD ran one offensive play in the 3rd quarter. Tipped ball at the line is intercepted.

Game 7 (Loss, 17-14 vs. NYJ): 27-40, 298 YD, 1 TD, 2 INT.
Played average until back-breaking INT late.

For those scoring at home, that’s at best three solid performances in seven postseason games.

The prosecution rests.
Added my impressions of his performances above.

He's played pretty well in the postseason; he just needs to stay healthy (Gates healthy would be nice too) and not having a bunch choking, idiot teammates (Kaeding, McCree, VJ, Cromartie et al.) would be nice too.

The_Doctor10 07-23-2011 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 7765985)
Kyle Orton should have been on that list over Jason Campbell.
I'm sure he was left off because he's pretty much guaranteed to not be a Bronco come training camp.

milkman 07-23-2011 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unleash_the_Phury (Post 7767028)
I'm sure he was left off because he's pretty much guaranteed to not be a Bronco come training camp.
If that were the case, Asomuagha would have been left off.

beach tribe 07-23-2011 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper16 (Post 7766017)
Thomas Jones was one of the NFL's very worst running backs last season. But he's better than Brandon Carr, who is a legit top-20 cornerback in the NFL?
TJ ALWAYS gets his ass kissed by the media. I just don't get it. He was absolutely HORRIBLE the last 8 games of the season. Worst performer on our team IMO.

beach tribe 07-23-2011 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 7766560)
The media are just a bunch of what have you done for me lately assholes.... Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.
:deevee:

It's a list of who is better NOW.

Not who WAS better in 2009.

Hali did have 15 ****ing sacks last season, and countless pressures.
If Houston is what I think he is, Hali is going to be an absolute terror.
Maybe Dumberville will have healed up by next season........Maybe.

Backwards Masking 07-24-2011 12:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 7766792)
Edit:I'd put Manning ahead of Favre, but they would be right there with each other.
They're a lot of like, both great numbers guys but chokers, except for one season apeice. Manning protects the ball better but Favre had the better arm.

The only reason I like Favre better is he played outdoors, a small detail to some, it's still more impressive.

Its because of the throwing dumb ints then leading epic drives to make up for them that Favre is/was WAY more fun to watch.

Param 07-24-2011 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 7766560)
The media are just a bunch of what have you done for me lately assholes.... Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.
Elvis missed the entire season. Hali produced last year. You can't rank an injured player very high when he could come back and bust.

Param 07-24-2011 12:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwards Masking (Post 7766692)
I certainly wouldn't put Favre ahead of Montana or Brady on my list of Best QB's, but I still think I'd put him ahead of Manning and Marino and pretty much everyone that fits in the category of "Great Regular Season QB, not so so great Post Season QB. Except maybe Tarkenton, that guy looked like a hoss.
Every QB great goes ahead of Marino. He didn't win the big one.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-24-2011 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 7767215)
TJ ALWAYS gets his ass kissed by the media. I just don't get it. He was absolutely HORRIBLE the last 8 games of the season. Worst performer on our team IMO.
http://i.qkme.me/2rtj.jpg

:D

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-24-2011 07:59 PM
KnowMo, quit bitching about Elvis. You KNOW Hali is the better man.

beach tribe 07-24-2011 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCarlSatan (Post 7768731)
If you TRULY believe that......you're dumber than I thought

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-24-2011 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach tribe (Post 7768745)
If you TRULY believe that......you're dumber than I thought
He sucks.

That is all.

DBOSHO 07-24-2011 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnowMo2724 (Post 7766560)
The media are just a bunch of what have you done for me lately assholes.... Elvis Dumervil has been getting shafted on all kinds of these lists. There is no way Tamba Hali should be higher than him, let alone 20+ spots higher. DOOM and Hali were both drafted in 06 and DOOM has more career sacks than Hali, DESPITE missing an entire season and playing the whole 2008 season with a broken bone in his hand.
Dont even try to pull the "what have you done for me lately" card.

Nobody ever heard of Dumervil before the 09 season.

listopencil 07-24-2011 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 7766195)
Man we could have had a hell of QB if you could put DeBerg's heart and heat in Grbac's body.

DeBerg was a bad ass. He had my respect.

During his career, DeBerg also acquired a reputation for playing through particularly gruesome or unique injuries. He played with laryngitis and wore a portable amplifier during regular season games with San Francisco. He also played with a broken non-throwing hand and an exposed metal pin sticking out of his finger in a Chiefs playoff victory in 1990. In 1993, he left a Dolphins game versus the New York Giants battered and bloodied after taking a helmet to the chin, only to return to the game following halftime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_DeBerg

listopencil 07-24-2011 09:08 PM
This is what's crazy about DeBerg:

In 1977, the Dallas Cowboys drafted Steve DeBerg in the 10th round of the draft. With Legendary quarterback Roger Staubach and Danny White on the team, DeBerg was cut and did not make the team.
In 1978, DeBerg went to San Francisco to play quarterback. In 1979, Joe Montana was selected in the third round and eventually replaced DeBerg. After a 3000-yard passing season in 1979, he was finally replaced after 11 games in the 1980 season by Montana.
In 1981, DeBerg went to the Denver Broncos for a shot to be the starting quarterback. After two seasons, John Elway was drafted by the Colts and was traded to Denver after he refused to play in Baltimore.
In 1984, Steve DeBerg headed to lowly Tampa Bay. Unfortunately, both Steve Young and the first pick in the draft, Vinney Testaverde pushed DeBerg out again. DeBerg did have back-to-back seasons with 19 touchdown passes.

In 1988, DeBerg found a home in Kansas City. He had a solid season that year, throwing 16 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Two years later, DeBerg had his best season. DeBerg completed 58 percent of his passes for 3444 yards, 23 touchdown passes and only 4 interceptions. He led the Chiefs to the playoffs. Ironically, he would once again be followed by Joe Montana, this time in Kansas City.



http://www.20yardline.com/kansas-city-chiefs-articles/current/steve-deberg.html

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-24-2011 09:12 PM
It's amazing how our level of QB play has made me wax nostalgic for guys like DeBerg.

listopencil 07-24-2011 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthCarlSatan (Post 7768873)
It's amazing how our level of QB play has made me wax nostalgic for guys like DeBerg.
You could do a lot worse than DeBerg.

listopencil 07-24-2011 09:19 PM
Don't make me start copy-and-pasting Chuck Norris quotes with DeBerg edited in. I'll do it. I swear I will.

milkman 07-24-2011 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 7768859)
This is what's crazy about DeBerg:

In 1977, the Dallas Cowboys drafted Steve DeBerg in the 10th round of the draft. With Legendary quarterback Roger Staubach and Danny White on the team, DeBerg was cut and did not make the team.
In 1978, DeBerg went to San Francisco to play quarterback. In 1979, Joe Montana was selected in the third round and eventually replaced DeBerg. After a 3000-yard passing season in 1979, he was finally replaced after 11 games in the 1980 season by Montana.
In 1981, DeBerg went to the Denver Broncos for a shot to be the starting quarterback. After two seasons, John Elway was drafted by the Colts and was traded to Denver after he refused to play in Baltimore.
In 1984, Steve DeBerg headed to lowly Tampa Bay. Unfortunately, both Steve Young and the first pick in the draft, Vinney Testaverde pushed DeBerg out again. DeBerg did have back-to-back seasons with 19 touchdown passes.

In 1988, DeBerg found a home in Kansas City. He had a solid season that year, throwing 16 touchdowns and 16 interceptions. Two years later, DeBerg had his best season. DeBerg completed 58 percent of his passes for 3444 yards, 23 touchdown passes and only 4 interceptions. He led the Chiefs to the playoffs. Ironically, he would once again be followed by Joe Montana, this time in Kansas City.



http://www.20yardline.com/kansas-city-chiefs-articles/current/steve-deberg.html
Except he wasn't immediately followed by Montana in KC.

That would be Dave Krieg.
Another in a laundry list of useless QB transactions in KC.

Quesadilla Joe 07-24-2011 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBOSHO (Post 7768794)
Dont even try to pull the "what have you done for me lately" card.

Nobody ever heard of Dumervil before the 09 season.
Don't know how that is possible. Doom did have 20 sacks his first two years in the league.

Sweet Daddy Hate 07-24-2011 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 7768886)
You could do a lot worse than DeBerg.
You ain't shittin', Mabel.

teedubya 07-24-2011 09:48 PM
Has KnowMo chimed in yet to tell about how great the Broncos really are?

Mama Hip Rockets 07-24-2011 10:00 PM
Wait, Matt Assel is better than Brandon Flowers?

RealSNR 07-24-2011 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 7768843)
DeBerg was a bad ass. He had my respect.

During his career, DeBerg also acquired a reputation for playing through particularly gruesome or unique injuries. He played with laryngitis and wore a portable amplifier during regular season games with San Francisco. He also played with a broken non-throwing hand and an exposed metal pin sticking out of his finger in a Chiefs playoff victory in 1990. In 1993, he left a Dolphins game versus the New York Giants battered and bloodied after taking a helmet to the chin, only to return to the game following halftime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_DeBerg
Also the oldest QB to ever start a game. Filled in for Chris Chandler in 1998 at the age of 44. Stayed on as the backup and the Falcons went to the Super Bowl that year, and became the oldest player to ever be on a Super Bowl team at age of 45.

1977-1998. He's a goddamn man

HoneyBadger 07-24-2011 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salame (Post 7766232)
seriously?
Oh I think he's serious.

Ugly Duck 07-26-2011 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBOSHO (Post 7768794)
Dont even try to pull the "what have you done for me lately" card.
I hate it when people factor in a player's prior-season performance when rating them. What they did last season should have no bearing on how good a player is considered to be. Moreno could outpace Jamaal Charles this season. DHB could outpace Bowe. Tebow could learn to be a QB. Well... its possible...

Rausch 07-26-2011 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck (Post 7773200)
I hate it when people factor in a player's prior-season performance when rating them. What they did last season should have no bearing on how good a player is considered to be.
http://scifun.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=400&h=300

RealSNR 07-26-2011 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck (Post 7773200)
I hate it when people factor in a player's prior-season performance when rating them. What they did last season should have no bearing on how good a player is considered to be. Moreno could outpace Jamaal Charles this season. DHB could outpace Bowe. Tebow could learn to be a QB. Well... its possible...
All hail Tebow, King of the Boos

Pasta Little Brioni 07-26-2011 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Duck (Post 7773200)
I hate it when people factor in a player's prior-season performance when rating them. What they did last season should have no bearing on how good a player is considered to be. Moreno could outpace Jamaal Charles this season. DHB could outpace Bowe. Tebow could learn to be a QB. Well... its possible...
That POS couldn't outpace a studebaker.


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