ChiefsPlanet
Page 2 of 4 1 2 34
Show 80 post(s) from this thread on one page

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Chiefs I've finally changed my mind about Todd Haley (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=252827)

Deberg_1990 11-22-2011 07:38 AM
I actually thought Haley was coaching last night better than he has in alot of games this year, meaning he was back to his old agressive ways. Isnt that what alot of fans liked about him? Alot of critisism of him this season was that he has gone soft. Mellinger was saying that he took over playcalling duties last night as well.

SenselessChiefsFan 11-22-2011 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132221)
The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.
Haley ran off Weis, a competent coordinator. Haley couldn't work with Gailey. I don't think that Gailey had any ties to Pioli, though I could be wrong.

Haley has picked a yes man to be his coordinator. That doesn't seem like Pioli's handpicked guy.

I think Haley has to grow up a little and be confident enough to work with other competent coaches.

SenselessChiefsFan 11-22-2011 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 (Post 8132224)
I actually thought Haley was coaching last night better than he has in alot of games this year, meaning he was back to his old agressive ways. Isnt that what alot of fans liked about him? Alot of critisism of him this season was that he has gone soft. Mellinger was saying that he took over playcalling duties last night as well.
That at least explains why they actually got the play in quickly.

suds79 11-22-2011 07:46 AM
I like Todd but the things I'm having a hard time getting past are...

- The approach to this season with the (I'm smarter than everybody else attitude) which ended in disaster.

- The constant shuffling of OCs because he can't get along with anybody

- And when he could just step up and put it on him, he says "Bill Muir is the playcaller". That was a ch!ckenshit move IMO.

If you could tell me we could get Jeff Fisher? I'd take him in a heartbeat. But considering I think Scott would only hire one of his buddies or some no name because he wants to be the man in KC, I don't see the point. So basically Scott is just as much to blame for the mess we're in than Todd. Probably more.

memyselfI 11-22-2011 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 8132214)
The responsibility of the HC is to hire a capable staff. Haley needs to go simply based on the fact that he can't get along with anyone offensively.
I'm not sure there are any good ones out there who would want to work with him. I agree with you.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 07:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan (Post 8132233)
Haley ran off Weis, a competent coordinator. Haley couldn't work with Gailey. I don't think that Gailey had any ties to Pioli, though I could be wrong.

Haley has picked a yes man to be his coordinator. That doesn't seem like Pioli's handpicked guy.

I think Haley has to grow up a little and be confident enough to work with other competent coaches.
Weis LEFT. How many times does that have to be said? Weis went to coach his son and look how that turned out.

Haley should have never had to work with Gailey AT ALL. The whole coaching staff should have been gone, period. Clark Hunt asked Haley to give Gailey a chance and he did. Haley should have told Hunt no and been done with it. As it is, Haley takes the bullet for Hunt's loyalty to stupidity.

I think Haley needs to be fired.

That way we can bring in Josh McDaniels to hold Cassel's hand AGAIN and he can fail, AGAIN.

Dragonocho 11-22-2011 07:55 AM
Haley looked like he's lost this team of backups last night. I think a mercy firing is in order. I have no clue who could work with this team this year and if we do not get a good QB in next season ditto for next year.

the Talking Can 11-22-2011 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 8132206)
Clark got to the office early this morning in Fiji and is looking into alternatives to make his team better...

http://www.secretcache.com/media/cat.../file_2_14.jpg
with giant transvestites?

penguinz 11-22-2011 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gif Horse (Post 8131908)
So does McCarthy. Hell, he's borderline special needs in this photo:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/M...KK-zcQYqOl.jpg
He doesn't even realize his neck is on fire.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonocho (Post 8132256)
Haley looked like he's lost this team of backups last night. I think a mercy firing is in order. I have no clue who could work with this team this year and if we do not get a good QB in next season ditto for next year.
We've got the perfect guy already on the staff. Zorn has already been a complete failure as a HC...

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 08:22 AM
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 8132304)
I understand the sentiment, but considering the huge disadvantages he's faced this year, I'm gonna have to withhold judgement. The injuries crippled both sides of the ball, the lockout screwed the preseason (although I concede he didn't do much with what he got). Pioli has refused to address the QB issue.

I still think Haley has a shot to be a really good coach. I realize it's looking more and more like he won't be doing it here if he does it at all. I'm just saying I'd like to give him another year or two with a decent QB and an even relatively healthy team.
I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132333)
I actually like what Haley did in the preseason. It didn't work no, but this was an offseason like never before and he was willing to take a risk and go against the conventional NFL wisdom. I like that.
Oh, I agreed at the time, so I'm not second guessing. It just didn't seem to work out. (Assuming a more conventional approach wouldn't have ended up worse somehow)

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132254)
Weis LEFT. How many times does that have to be said? Weis went to coach his son and look how that turned out.

Haley should have never had to work with Gailey AT ALL. The whole coaching staff should have been gone, period. Clark Hunt asked Haley to give Gailey a chance and he did. Haley should have told Hunt no and been done with it. As it is, Haley takes the bullet for Hunt's loyalty to stupidity.

I think Haley needs to be fired.

That way we can bring in Josh McDaniels to hold Cassel's hand AGAIN and he can fail, AGAIN.
Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8132341)
Weis' son is an undergrad waterboy on the team. Weis isn't coaching him. Weis and Haley couldn't co-exist because they both have brash, f you personalities.
Weis' son is angling for a Graduate position which generally means coaching opportunities in the future. Weis himself said that's why he was leaving.

We both know about the personalities. But to say that Haley "ran him off" is speculation and that's it.

dallaschiefsfan 11-22-2011 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132221)
The offensive "staff" has Pioli's fingerprints all over it.

Don't get me wrong, Haley shouldn't be "excused".

I think the whole lot of them need to go.
This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan (Post 8132372)
This. Pioli wants his head coach to fit a certain role on the team. If Haley began coaching as an "OC-first" head coach, things might have been different.

Some HC's are game-planners/managers (think Marty). Others are coordinators that hire other coaches that excel as planners/managers (think McCarthy). Still others are team-assemblers that manage the pieces, but are generally hands off (think Vermeil). Each type has won championships.

It seems to me that Pioli wants Haley to be the first type...because that seems to fit the Parcells/Belichick mold. This is wrong-headed. Haley should be calling plays with a staff that can competently game-plan and manage. If Mellinger is correct, I hope last night is the beginning of the end of Muir as OC.

IMO, the biggest cause for Haley's deficiencies in his first year while calling the plays was that he was also expected to game plan/manage the team as well...with a below-average QB while also installing a post-Gailey offense. This entire approach to what a HC should do has never played to Haley's strengths, IMO.
I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".

dirk digler 11-22-2011 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 8132011)
If Pioli thought that he was going to be financially handcuffed by Hunt he would have never taken the offer. It's not like Cleveland didn't offer him the job.
I don't know how else you can explain it though. Piolo acknowledged in the book that the roster has a ton of holes in it yet they didn't really address very many of them.

I guess if they are going to go the route of just using the draft almost exclusively it is going to take at least 5 years and that is if they hit on every pick which of course they haven't.

dallaschiefsfan 11-22-2011 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132378)
I honestly think last year's "success" was more about Weis' HEAD COACHING experience than about Weis' playcalling "genious".
Probably. Or the fact that Haley had some competent game planning/managing coordinators that worked well together. Personally, I don't think we see a dropoff with Haley as OC. But we lose any advantage we have with Haley as OC if he's expected to game plan the whole team. That's simply not his strength. He played the role ADEQUATELY last year and was exposed in the playoffs (not that Cassell wasn't a huge part of that as well).

This team needs a solid group of planners/managers on the coaching staff (not Muir types!) that allow Haley to lead from his strengths as OC and motivator. If Haley truly has 100% control of coach hiring, then that's on him. I suspect Pioli has more control than what's reported.

DTLB58 11-22-2011 09:21 AM
I think they will let Todd coach out his contract, get everyone back from IR next year and give it one more go.

I always have been a Haley supporter but am losing faith fast. Just seems like there are a lot of other teams in the NFL with less doing better.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 09:23 AM
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.

royr17 11-22-2011 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8131880)
Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.
If we were to replace them, who would we replace them with, the only active players we have on the roster other than the starters are Rodney Hudson, Jared Gaither, and Steve Maneri, so again I ask who would you replace them with ?

jspchief 11-22-2011 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132464)
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.

GloryDayz 11-22-2011 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8131880)
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.
Me too, he sucks at golf too!

lcarus 11-22-2011 09:50 AM
I'm down on Haley right now too man. That 4th and 1 in the 1st quarter really really pissed me off, among other things. To be fair though, he's been taking Pioli's chicken shit and trying to make chicken salad out of it. The problem is, we're not doing better than we should be doing. What I mean is - we're bad - but a good coach could make us a little better than this.

Okie_Apparition 11-22-2011 09:55 AM
If Haley is the dead man walking, the media has played him out to be. There is no point getting personnel that fits his scheme. When the next HC may go in another direction with personnel needs.

Then again, he should have been canned already instead of wasting a year

Chiefs Pantalones 11-22-2011 09:56 AM
I just want this team wiped out, everyone including the head coach, except for the good players obviously. Pioli isn't going anywhere though. I have never wanted to give up on a regime so fast since the Herm days. And, sadly, that wasn't that long ago. One day we'll get it right.

Mr. Laz 11-22-2011 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132364)
Weis' son is angling for a Graduate position which generally means coaching opportunities in the future. Weis himself said that's why he was leaving.

We both know about the personalities. But to say that Haley "ran him off" is speculation and that's it.
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.

Mr. Laz 11-22-2011 09:56 AM
wow ... where have i heard all this stuff before?

htismaqe 11-22-2011 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief (Post 8132482)
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.
Once again you pretty well summed up how I feel about it.

lcarus 11-22-2011 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132550)
wow ... where have i heard all this stuff before?
Chiefs Planet

htismaqe 11-22-2011 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132549)
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.
Except that Weis said that he was leaving to go be with his son. I guess the guy is a liar...

the Talking Can 11-22-2011 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132561)
Except that Weis said that he was leaving to go be with his son. I guess the guy is a liar...
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132549)
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.
Except for that's what he said multiple times. In fact he refuted the claim that his relationship with Haley was his reason for leaving. You can choose not to believe him but that's far more speculative than believing one of the few people who had any first hand knowledge of the situation.

Okie_Apparition 11-22-2011 10:04 AM
How come the mighty Weis made Croyle look even worse
The Baltimore Croyle(Haley) vs the San Diego Croyle(Weis) was quite a drop off

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8132565)
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."
And people choose to believe the more scandalous story all the time as well. There were never any credible sources cited that I saw to support the story of Weis leaving because of Haley, but people jumped on board with it as soon as the first hack writer spit it out.

Pioli hates Haley, too. Haven't you heard? That's why he's still the HC when most of the media thinks he should have been fired weeks ago.

Mr. Laz 11-22-2011 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 8132568)
Except for that's what he said multiple times. In fact he refuted the claim that his relationship with Haley was his reason for leaving. You can choose not to believe him but that's far more speculative than believing one of the few people who had any first hand knowledge of the situation.
what else is he going to say?

Is he going to tell every employer out there that he quit because he couldn't get along? Is he going to 'air dirty laundry' and Pioli and every other GM know that he can't keep his mouth shut about internal issues?

I bet you believe the 'dreaded vote of confidence' every time too.

keep defending your boy though ...

htismaqe 11-22-2011 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8132565)
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."
And people automatically jump to the opposite conclusion all the time too...

My point is NOT that Weis definitively left because he wanted to go to Florida.

It's that there's ZERO proof that Haley "ran him off".

Reality is that he left and we have no idea in the end why he did. It's ALL speculation.

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132585)
what else is he going to say?

Is he going to tell every employer out there that he quit because he couldn't get along? Is he going to 'air dirty laundry' and Pioli and every other GM know that he can't keep his mouth shut about internal issues?

I bet you believe the 'dreaded vote of confidence' every time too.

keep defending your boy though ...
I'm not saying it's impossible. You said the story that everyone involved has told is more speculative than something thought up by a sports columnist. That's outrageous.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 8132590)
I'm not saying it's impossible. You said the story that everyone involved has told is more speculative than something thought up by a sports columnist. That's outrageous.
Haley ran him off. That's the only possible conclusion. Keep defending your boyfriend though!

Mr. Laz 11-22-2011 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kysirsoze (Post 8132590)
I'm not saying it's impossible.
progress

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 8132565)
politicians do it all the time

"i'm leaving to spend more time with my family..."
Haley was upset that Weis had a "wide stance" when using the stall next to him.

kysirsoze 11-22-2011 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132595)
progress
Not really. Never said it was.

RealSNR 11-22-2011 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief (Post 8132482)
I hated the Haley hire at the time. He's done some things to win me over.

However, like I said in the coaching thread I started a few weeks back, he appears to be in over his head as a HC. Perhaps with some quality veteran coordinators that are capable of guiding Haley, he can succeed right now.

I think the truly great coaches have gone over game time scenarios so many times on paper, in their head, and in practice that making the right decision becomes instinct. Taking last night's game as an example, the choice to not go for it on 4th and short in NE territory, followed by going for an onside kick. The guys that truly understand what they want to do know to choose that 4th down chance in lieu of attempting an onside that was clearly planned.

I wouldn't be surprised if Haley becomes a good HC somewhere down the line, but he doesn't have a HC mindset yet.
That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.

Dayze 11-22-2011 10:54 AM
just heard a stat.
Chiefs have beaten 3 teams with winning records under the Pioli/Haley regime; and in each one of them there was a return for a touchdown (I think I heard that part right).

sad.

BigRichard 11-22-2011 11:26 AM
I have been walking the fence on him since the beginning of the year but I am on board now. Haley needs to go.

The Franchise 11-22-2011 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8132549)
saying that Weis took a 5 million dollar pay cut to go work with his son is JUST as speculative ... if not more so.

This son stuff at florida is just something people say to try and make themselves feel better about Haley.
It's not like Weis doesn't have money. It wouldn't be unheard of for Weis to quit and go work with his son. The guy values family more than anything.

Fish 11-22-2011 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8132715)
That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.
BS.... Haley is an angry white dude. HUGE difference...

Dartgod 11-22-2011 11:48 AM
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartgod (Post 8132870)
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.

FAX 11-22-2011 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartgod (Post 8132870)
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.
I could not agree more, Mr. Dartgod. So, I'm going into max-agreement mode.

FAX

htismaqe 11-22-2011 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8132878)
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.
He should have insisted on one in 2009 when he got here.

He won't get the chance to decide on the next one and I can't say I'm too sorry about that...

Mama Hip Rockets 11-22-2011 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8131880)
Ignoring his unimpressive W/L record as a head coach, it was apparent after tonight that the idiot has learned absolutely NOTHING about being a head coach in the NFL.

He knows nothing about gameday decisions. He goes for it on 4th down at times when the reward isn't worth the risks, and then turns into Herm's vagina when he should (like tonight in the first quarter).

Hiring Bill Muir was a ****ing shitfest.

Not replacing Lilja OR Weigmann in the past couple of games has been giving our shitty QBs no time to throw whatsoever.

Not figuring out how to stop Tim ****ing Tebow by simply PLAYING THE GODDAMN RUN.

Putting your team in the hands of a garbage player that not even amateur leagues wanted over a QB who could actually be better than feces

And there are so many more.

He's been at this position for three goddamn years, people. Most coaches, if they're any good, start to show flashes of brilliance by their 2nd year. In their 3rd year, they at the very least field a competitive team.

He's good at coaching and player development in the offseason? Newsflash: EVERY coach can find diamonds in the rough. Even Herm had a bunch.

Cassel is the first guy who needs to go. But Haley is a pretty ****ing close second. I'll be pretty pissed if we keep this jackass around next year.
I'm with you on this one. I have been a huge Haley supporter but he just continues to make head-scratching decisions that an NFL coach should not make. Why do you punt on 4th and inches from inside the 40 at New England when the season is on the line? Why do you then proceed to kick an onside kick? Completely unacceptable levels of reerunation last night.

BoneKrusher 11-22-2011 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8132878)
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.
:thumb:

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8132878)
It's up to him to insist that he gets one.
Do you really think he had the power? Doesn't it seem pretty clear that Pioli was hell-bent on doing things his way, given that they are built in the exact model of the Patriots of old?

This isn't like Thomas Dimitroff, who built the scheme around Mike Smith. This is about Pioli forcing pieces of the puzzle onto Haley. Remember we heard rumors that Weis was never high on Cassel? How much more can you ask of your coaches if two bullheaded guys can't convince the GM to change his mind?

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thurman merman (Post 8132956)
I'm with you on this one. I have been a huge Haley supporter but he just continues to make head-scratching decisions that an NFL coach should not make. Why do you punt on 4th and inches from inside the 40 at New England when the season is on the line? Why do you then proceed to kick an onside kick? Completely unacceptable levels of reerunation last night.
Question... do you think he does these things with a good QB?

Notice how we didn't attempt many onsides kicks last year. It seems to me that Haley knew his team was a complete longshot and the only shot at winning was to take a few risks and get a few breaks. On 4th and 1, that could have been moreso due to distrust in your team to get the minimum yardage.

Again, what makes it hard to scrutinize these decisions is that most coaches trust the talent on their team to win games. It becomes a different story when a coach knows he is brutally outmatched and has to start pulling from a bag of tricks to win.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8132715)
That's the thing. You'd think he'd show SOME progress in three years.

He hasn't. What has he improved upon as a coach? Nothing. He still makes idiot decisions on gameday (just like Herm). He still depends on the offseason to look good (just like Herm). And he sounds like a babbling idiot at press conferences (just like Herm).

Guys, Haley IS Herm. They're the same goddamn coach.
The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.

RealSNR 11-22-2011 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8132984)
The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.
I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-22-2011 12:49 PM
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.

Extra Point 11-22-2011 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 8133005)
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.
Golf doesn't have a clock, but I'm sure he slow-plays.

TEX 11-22-2011 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8132984)
The players are clearly better. He has maximized the talent on this team. The defense is better, but asked to do way too much to support a horrible offense. We have a very good run blocking o-line... but only when we have a decent running back in the backfield. Our pass protection was significantly better last night, largely because we had a QB who was visibly picking up blitzes.

I'm sorry, but this team when healthy has improved in every single area except the QB position. Yes, I truly believe our healthy supporting cast is a HELL of a lot better than New Orleans or Indianapolis. I think they're even better than New England's.

I am going on the record to say that when all our players are healthy, with a top 10 QB, this team is a serious contender.
No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.

MahiMike 11-22-2011 01:03 PM
One interesting thing about our coaching/QB situation is this. Our team, like most, have the coach and QB tied together. So if there's any chance we'll actually draft a 1st round QB, what does that mean for Haley? Jacksonville was the 1st and only team I can think of that drafted a 1st round QB with a lame duck coach. While I was excited to see them finally get a QB, I was dumbfounded they did it when both the head coach and GM were 1 year away from being fired. Each new regime wants their own guy. Look no further than Denver for that.

So bottom line. We either fire Haley AND draft a 1st round QB or we do neither. A vote to fire Cassel is essentially a vote to fire Haley, IMO.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX (Post 8133031)
No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.
Our lines are not weak.

Our o-line is a very good run blocking o-line and they pass protect fine when the QB actually understands blitz pickups. Did you see Palko yesterday literally tap guys on the shoulder and move them to a position where they could stop the blitz? This o-line is better than New Orleans or New England. They just don't have the right QB. And our running game improves once defenses respect our passing game.

On defense, the d-line is strong, it's jsut the wrong system because Pioli has no imagination to build a defense outside of what he built in NE. This 2-gap system was probably a huge mistake. That's not on Haley. Pioli drafting Jackson at #3 made it very clear that Haley had no choice.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8133001)
I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.
Tell me if you think otherwise, but I thought he was fine as a gameday coach last year. He seems to make a lot more iffy/risky decisions when he doesn't trust his team. Is he sitting on clock with 2 minutes to go in the first half in most games because he's inept? Or does he just have this "oh shit' fear that Cassel is going to screw it up?

DaWolf 11-22-2011 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8133001)
I REALLY like the team we've assembled (apart from the QB position, that is). I've been saying that since this offseason. Acquiring depth at a few key positions shouldn't be difficult at all if we ever find a real QB.

Haley's just a TERRIBLE game day coach. He's worse than Andy Reid. He's Herm-level. I don't really see us winning very many playoff games with his idiocy in charge.
I kinda see us like the 49ers last year in a sense. We've got good young talent, but we've got coaches who don't necessarily know what they want this team to be and how to coach them to be that team. The most damning thing to me about Haley is that we have no identity. Some of that is injuries, but I lay a lot of that on his promotion of Muir to OC. Again, to me this is like Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye. You've got guys who are showing that they don't really know how to put guys in positions to succeed. I get that there are injuries, but there is no excuse to getting blown out this many times.

I think you get a proven, veteran coach in here who knows how to drive guys and get them ready to compete, and who can actually work with other coaches so that you can bring in a bright mind at OC, then you sprinkle in some more talent through the draft, sign a few savvy free agents, and get your injured stars back, and we can be right back in the thick of it. Lots of people coming into the year were comparing us to where the Packers were a few years ago, when they went from 13-3 to 6-10, then back to 11-5. I see the makings of a good nucleus here. The critical difference, of course, is the lack of the franchise QB. But again that's where I go back to SF, because Harbaugh is proving that if you know what you are doing and give your team an identity and put guys in a position to succeed, you can still win with a guy like Smith...

OnTheWarpath15 11-22-2011 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 8133005)
Some coaches play checkers, Haley plays golf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extra Point (Post 8133018)
Golf doesn't have a clock, but I'm sure he slow-plays.
I'm picturing Sergio waggling/regripping 13 times.

BigMeatballDave 11-22-2011 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe (Post 8132464)
I'd rather see Haley as OC and somebody else as HC.

I don't know, I like Haley. I think he has a few things that could make him a successful coach in this league.

But this is awful and I just think it needs to purged.
It's unfortunate Haley has had to work with shitty quarterbacks. This could be his own fault, though.

FringeNC 11-22-2011 02:06 PM
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 8133050)
Our lines are not weak.

Our o-line is a very good run blocking o-line .
No they aren't.

FAX 11-22-2011 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 8133191)
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.
I think he's tired of trying to push an elephant up three flights of stairs.

Ultimately, it may not fall to Pioli or Clark whether Haley stays or goes.

I'm sure he gets a ton of calls from other teams. If I were him, I'd consider another job somewhere else. It's impossible to win when you don't have a quarterback and, at some point, you have to look out for yourself.

FAX

philfree 11-22-2011 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 8133191)
Haley seems like a beaten man. I won't be upset if he is fired, but I also wouldn't be upset if he was kept around. Nothing really matters until the QB position is addressed. Pioli made a huge bet on Cassel and lost big. Now the franchise is in chaos because of it.
Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.

GloryDayz 11-22-2011 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philfree (Post 8133284)
Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.
Yeah, waaaaaaaay too late. Manning beat him to it AGAIN.... :banghead:

Rasputin 11-22-2011 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by philfree (Post 8133284)
Kinda seems that way. He just doesn't seem the same. Maybe he got the Suck For Luck memo a month after it was sent.
Yea, & we are back to resorting to running the wildcat. The ****ing wildcat.

htismaqe 11-22-2011 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX (Post 8133031)
No chance. Our lines on BOTH sides are weak. Also , not much quality depth. To become a contender, you need good coaching. That's where the Chiefs fail. On game day, Haley is terrible.
The line play is being WAY over-analyzed.

HemiEd 11-22-2011 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dartgod (Post 8132870)
I think that if Haley had ONE competent quarterback on the team, most of us would have a different opinion of him.
Amazing how that works.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaWolf (Post 8133067)
I kinda see us like the 49ers last year in a sense. We've got good young talent, but we've got coaches who don't necessarily know what they want this team to be and how to coach them to be that team. The most damning thing to me about Haley is that we have no identity. Some of that is injuries, but I lay a lot of that on his promotion of Muir to OC. Again, to me this is like Mike Singletary and Jimmy Raye. You've got guys who are showing that they don't really know how to put guys in positions to succeed. I get that there are injuries, but there is no excuse to getting blown out this many times.

I think you get a proven, veteran coach in here who knows how to drive guys and get them ready to compete, and who can actually work with other coaches so that you can bring in a bright mind at OC,6 then you sprinkle in some more talent through the draft, sign a few savvy free agents, and get your injured stars back, and we can be right back in the thick of it. Lots of people coming into the year were comparing us to where the Packers were a few years ago, when they went from 13-3 to 6-10, then back to 11-5. I see the makings of a good nucleus here. The critical difference, of course, is the lack of the franchise QB. But again that's where I go back to SF, because Harbaugh is proving that if you know what you are doing and give your team an identity and put guys in a position to succeed, you can still win with a guy like Smith...
They didbhave an identity last year. Play to protect the quarterbacks mistakes. Take Charles away and that identity disappears. The 49ers are the 2010 chiefs with better defensive talent and a slightly better qb. At least when they ask Smith to make plays he makes them.

What identity can you create for a team with no qb or rb in an increasingly offense driven league?

whoman69 11-22-2011 04:31 PM
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 8133607)
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.
Thought the plan was good last year. The strength is the receivers and you just can't build on that. It's either the qb or the rb. Usually the qb. How do you build a plan around receivers? Arizona couldn't do it.

Chiefnj2 11-22-2011 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 8133607)
Haley has done a great job in getting our underachieving players like Johnson, Hali and Bowe to come up to a Pro-Bowl calibre. I still don't see a plan on the offense. Its kind of hard to plan when playing in the NFL with a HS QB but really? The defense takes a step backward for every step forward.
Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.

chiefzilla1501 11-22-2011 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 8133639)
Hali and Bowe were not underachieving prior to Haley's arrival.
They are better players with the new regime. Period.

Name me a single player you think is underachievimg besides cassel. He has made lemonade out of mostly lemons.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:16 AM.
Page 2 of 4 1 2 34
Show 80 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.