Dorsey can be a 4-3 DT. Jackson can't.

Well there are many things the chiefs need to do to right the ship

1. Get a good experienced HC....someone who knows how to treat its players and knows how to operate a team and prepare for Sundays.

2. Get healthy

3. QB (get a good backup too, Orton prob won't be here next season)

4. OL + depth

5. DL + depth

6. Safety depth

CUTS: Richardson, Jereme Urban, McGraw, Piscatelli, OConnell, Pope, Cassel, Palko, Weigman, Greenwood, Langford, D.Williams

Theoretically yes.


I actually think if Jackson continues to develop on this course he could be a 3 or 4 sack a year guy. Maybe less maybe more.


The key to this defense is having a solid run stuffing NT.

I'm more concerned that our GM of the century hasn't figured that out yet.

Obviously because he is doing such a stellar job in the 3-4.

Seriously, you want to play two 300-pounders at DT in a 4-3.

With Hali and Houston at end.

Way to set the defense back three years.

I agree a good NT will make the entire Dline better., I still think Dorsey has more potential than Jackson at making the switch to a 3-4. Jackson gets his shit stuffed too much for me. Maybe we are starting to see signs and maybe you are right. I hope so beause I don't see them replacing him anytime soon.

He's been a rock against the run. He's doing a good job.

Jackson is a left in a 4-3, and a two-down player at that. Basically, exactly what he is in this scheme. I don't think that talent evaluators were wrong when they said that Dorsey could play the three technique, but when your job is to occupy and scrape, you aren't going to be shooting gaps.

I still think that this team would do well to be a little more exotic in passing situations. Move Dorsey and Gilberry inside, and rush Houston and Hali off the edges.

I'd keep McGraw simply for depth. Not the ideal starter but good on special teams and a decent reserve for the money.

Jackson's run defense is rated higher than Brett Keisel's, but you think he gets pushed around a lot.

Uh, no.

I tend to agree more with this.

We actually have guys who are pretty versatile. Move them around.

I'd say this would be a pretty good start.

I agree with this. Seems when we had Cower as a DC and even Adolph and Gunther we just blitzed so much more. Having good bump-run corners helps that a lot and we had some great corners and safteys.

I want that back. I want to get the corners up in a guys face and knock him around coming off the ball while everyone else is going for a QB lunch. You get in those 3rd and longs and QB's just don't have time to throw the ball 20 yards down field.

I know it seems really dark righ tnow as a Chiefs fan with the peckerhead we have at GM, but this team isn't as far away as one might think.


It really all depends on his decision about Cassel. It could determine the way of this franchise for 10 years down the road.

If he were to go qb in the first and that guy actually turned out to be the guy, we are a true fan draft the rest of the way out from putting a really good team out there on sunday. THis is also considering we get healthy.

Here's what happens if we switch to a 4-3:

Jackson gets pushed around at DT.

Dorsey continues to 2-gap.

Hali is probably not as effective.

We are left holding our dicks looking for two outside linebackers, hoping that DJ can play the middle in a 4-3.

Sounds like a recipe for a bottom 10 defense.

And THIS defense, two games ago, was shitting on Ben Roethlisberger.

Yeah, no.

:spock: These players LOVE Haley.

I still have memories of the 96 defense basically putting 10 men up on the line and setting the tone. I mean we would line everyone up on the line and the offense knew we were bringing it. And the philosophy was simple....rush the QB and tackle the RB on the way if they hand it to him.

It was intimidating. Think back to the 49rs game when we raped Steve Young. He had that scared look in his eyes after the first sack which I think was like their 2nd or 3rd play from scrimmage.

I want that back. I want that mauling defense back where it didn't matter where you lined up on the line you were going to knock the **** out of the guy in front of you whether he was a lineman, TE or WR. Whoever it was was not going to come off that line clean and easy and the QB knew he was not going to get away with some 7 step drop and a 20 yard pass without getting his ass stomped.

Agreed. No reason whatsoever to switch to a 4-3. Bad move.

We should be looking to draft from schools that run the 3-4 for the front seven, especially so for the line. I know occassionally you can project a lighter end to play LB in the 3-4, but very rarely are 4-3 lineman able to play line in a 3-4.

Georgia, Georgia Tech, Houston, Notre Dame, Stanford, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Alabama, Air Force, Army, Navy, BYU, California and SMU

Take the guesswork out.

The receivers didn't the last month.

I am not saying we should swtich to a 4-3. I prefer a 3-4. I think it is more confusing for an offense and is a much more aggresive scheme. My point was, however badly stated, that if we are going to continue to draft 4-3 players on the line then you might as well switch to a 4-3. And to a lesser degree if we are going to run this soft zone crap then switch to a 4-3. If you're going to run a 3-4 then let the players lace em' up and have at it.

DJ is a beast on the blitz. He almost always gets pressure that alters the play. But we need safetys and another LB that can cover TE's over the middle so you can blitz DJ more.

Well man I think the times of defenses like that are over. I think we could be more aggressive like we were in the Steeler and first half pats game tho and be very successful.


It's been stated before , but Berry really brings this defense together.

Dat

is

muh

point!

Well said.

The bad move is hiring a coach and forcing him into a scheme he doesn't believe in, or limiting your coaching search to guys that only run the 34.

Hire the best coach, and let HIM dictate what scheme you run.

If that means a switch to the 43, so ****ing be it.

Hiring a less qualified coach just because he's willing to run a 34 is just as big a mistake.

I'd like to see some safety depth, but you have to remember next year we will hopefully be getting an all pro back at safety.

Oh no question Berry adds tremendously to the D. But we need another Berry. I remember having Kevin Ross and Deron Cherry. That's what we need. You want to be a shutdown defense you have to have 2 safetys that can cover and play the run and hit mother ****ers so hard they go back to the huddle saying "don't run that play again". We have 1 of those safetys and we have one of those corners in Carr. I don't think Flowers can play a true bump-run but he can play a press. Carr on the other hand needs to take his game to the next step and be a James Hasty and start laying ****ers out at the line. I think he can do that.

You aren't going to have two safeties playing the run. Ever.

No but you have to have two safeties that can play both. That was the beauty of Ross, Cherry and Collins. They could do it all so you didn't lose anything when one had to play up and one had to play back.

I remember when we played and beat the "Greatest Show on Turf" at Arrowhead and kicked their ass with Grbac. The very first play of the game Hasty picked off Warner over the middle. Yes, that's right, a CB picked off a pass over the middle.

Then like the next series Warner went to kind of a quick out about 4 yards downfield to his left and the ball hit the ground because the WR and Hasty were still at the line with the WR laying on the ground. That's the kind of shit I want to see out of this defense.

anyway, back to the OP, I think perhaps the last 3 years were an unfortunate but necessary evil given the circumstances. Lots of noobs running this team and they "thought" they had it figured out. They thought their way was the right way even though history and to a degree common sense dictated otherwise. Ok, what's done is done. Can't change it no matter how badly we want too. We have Dex, we don't have Cody. We don't have a QB worth a squirt of piss. We don't have an o-line that is anything to speak of and we have one good RB who is broken and may not ever return to his old self and even if he did, he is not an every down back.

hopefully now the Chief Gods will bestow some sense upon our front office and they will figure it out, make some good draft choices though I don't expect all their picks to hit, get a new QB even if that means keeping Cassel or Orton for one more year to groom, though I'd just prefer to toss the rookie in and let him go, and get a NT and some lineman that will make a difference.

Source? Haven't read that one anywhere yet...

I agree, but disagree. This defense is too good as it is, without Eric Berry or a good NT mind you. I'm sure there are plenty of offensive minded coaches who would have no problem running a 3-4, especially with the popularity it gained in recent years.

What coach is out there that is so worth switching to a 4-3?

FWIW, I'm not advocating one or the other.

I'm just sick of forcing schemes on coaches, or eliminating coaches based on scheme.

Hire the BEST coach.

Yes but a good head coach is going to listen to his DC. And if the DC says the 3-4 is our best way to go then a good head coach is going to say ok and help draft or sign players to fit that role.

No good leader is going to come in and start dictating tactical decsions. That's what bad coaches do. A good head coach is going to come in with a strategy and tell his DC's to execute that strategy however they see the best way to do it.

A good head coach is going to say "I want an attacking defense", not "I want a 4-3 or a 3-4". However, before he even does that, a good head coach is going to evaluate his players and decide what the best strategy for that group should be. You can't say you want to be a ball-control offense if you don't have a big, powerful line. You can't say you want to be an attacking defense if you don't have the players to execute it.

Nonetheless, the coach should decide and dictate the strategy based on his evaluation of players and input from his coordinators. Nothing should be pre-meditated to a tactical level.

Most coaches would probably want to bring along their own DC... That DC will want to install whichever damn scheme he likes most, despite the talent here.

Yep, most coaches would want to hire their own staff.

Which is exactly why a Pioli-puppet like Crennel, McD or Ferentz will get the job.

I agree. But that doesn't make them a good head coach. A good head coach will always evaluate before he dictates. If the new coach brings in his own guys and long as they have had previous success then ok, that's how it goes. But to bring guys in at that level simply as a power play is not the sign of a good leader.

I mean, to a point we have seen this firsthand with Vermeil. He brought in Saunders. But we were replacing Jimmy "don't call me slim-jim" Rae so there was hardly anything to argue about there.

Question....
Was moving to the 2-gap 3-4 a mistake? Or do we think there's a future here.

It seems to work incredibly well. But there seem to be games like Sunday where it's just off-the-charts bad. Is it exhaustion? Poor preparation? Did the Pats' 3-4 fail because they failed to get pass rushers?

Or are there teams who just have an answer to it? It does seem like our 3-4 can bully the shit out of a bad o-line in the pass rush, but we get absolutely swallowed up by good ones. Is that because we have too many linemen who aren't pass rushers?

I think any defense can work if you have the right players for the scheme. Our problems this year stem from multiple problems.

1. Our training camp and pre-season would have made a good Yoga infomercial

2. We don't really have the players on the line to play a 3-4

3. We play too much coverage and not enough attack

4. The defense is on the field the majority of the game

5. When they started kicking ass Haley insisted on the Palko-led RRPP offense thus disheartening the defense making them question WTF they were playing so hard?

Ferentz would not be Pioli's puppet. Might he be willing to coach with a lot of the very good coaching staff that is here, including his old compadre Romeo? Sure. Ferentz would not come without complete control over his staff and probably a good bit of control in the player acquisition process.

I just realized this D is actually 15th in yards.

That's not horrible at all.

Anyone suggesting we need to blow up that side...no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Ravens and Jets run a 2-gap 3-4?

If only games were decided by yards and not points.

I don't think we need to blow it up. I think we need to get some good D-lineman, particularly NT and attack a lot more. We are more successfull if we attack. Even against the Jets we stopped then 3 straight times after their opening drive and all the offense gave them for it was 3 points.

Source? Haven't read that one anywhere yet...

the best coach will scheme around your best players. have the personnel (aside from NT) for a good 3-4 defense? YOU ****ING RUN THE 3-4 DEFENSE (maybe a bit more attacking, hopefully)

Anyone whos advocating going to the 4-3 is a moron. We have all the pieces in place, except a healthy safety and a young dominant nose tackle.

If youre worried about being handcuffed to a scheme, then hopefully the next coach we hire will be one who will look at the players we have and build a scheme based on them.

He would have to be Haley dumb, to swap to the 4-3.

This team is about 2 players away from being a perennial division winner.

1. QB


(Huge gap in importance)








2. Nose tackle.

Lets just hope to based god, that our next coach is willing to cut ties with Matt and draft one in the first.

Our ppg looks bad because of the offense, turnovers and the first two games.

DING DING...we have a winna...

I hope you are right. Some never been a NFL HC College guy making demands like he just won his third Super Bowl will get to stay in Iowa Freaking City and we wont be subject to another low ball experience builder program. God save us from that fate.

We are a healthy Berry and NT away from being a really really good defense.

Hell, get a QB that can let the offense keep the ball and get Berry back and its a great defense IMO.

Its no secret to anybody that a QB and NT make this team serious contenders. Especially with the AFC not showing to be elite at the moment.

Bringing back Wiegmann was.

I'm not sure why anyone would say drafting Mcluster was a mistake. HE is one of the few players who isn't going to give up ala Bowe.

Because he sucks and there were much better players available.