It would be awesome if we could trade down, still get Konz, pick up a second rounder, and draft Hightower and Reynolds in the second.

Shit. If Ricky Stanzi really is Tom Brady, that's a Super Bowl right there.

There we go.


Stanzi equals Super Bowl

I couldn't think of a better scenario for the Chiefs.

Other than the first ten teams passing on Luck.

I'd be good with the top two picks both came as the result of trade down profit.

Take Konz at around 17 or 18 and then Reynolds with the trade down profit.

That would leave us with our original 2nd to work with, as well.

I obviously didn't read the rest of the thread before posting that.

n00b mistake.

Carry on.

Now I have to go take a shower after agreeing with sac on something draft related.

I still don't understand the love for a 2nd rounder on Matt Reynolds. No one, and I repeat... no one has him ranked above Potter. Potter is rolling with a 3rd round grade. The only person who has Reynolds ranked in the 2nd-3rd round is Walter. Then you look at his mock draft and he doesn't even have him in his first 4 rounds because he hasn't updated his OT rankings in a month.

Isn't he having surgery on his shoulder?

He's big, athletic, experienced, durable (started every game in his four year career) and is effective in both the run and pass. He's very consistent in his game and has played well against the good teams that BYU has faced.

The mockers don't like his age (he'll be 26 when he plays in the NFL) and probably use it to push him down in their drafts, but he's NFL ready and will be able to play on either side of the line. I seriously doubt that he'll make it out of the second round.

And, to the best of my knowledge, he had ortho on his shoulder after the 2010 season - not this season. (He'll play in the East-West Shrine game this month.)

Two time BYU team captain, three-time conference first team, Lombardi and Outland nominee, former HS All-American and the third highest ranked recruit ever at BYU.

He dropped weight this past season and played at 305 in 2011. I think he plays better at the 325 mark and is most likely suited to the right side of the line. However, his extensive experience at left tackle in college gives him a solid foundation in pass protection.

I think he'd be balls as a right tackle and the Chiefs desperately need one.

He might last until the fourth, but I seriously doubt it. Guys of his size, experience, athletic ability and production don't really stick around that long in the draft.

IMO, Potter is a pure LT in the Ryan Clady mold. If you want to move Albert over to the right side and put Potter in at LT, then okay.

I think I'd rather have Albert/Reynolds then Potter/Albert at this point. (I don't think Albert would be a very good RT.)

And adding to the Reynolds thing, I really think that some people doing internet mocks have never seen most of these guys play. Here is some quotes on Reynolds from fftoolbox draft grades:

Undersized? The guy is huge, with a big, thick base. He's damn near prototype size for an NFL right tackle. Tell me if this looks undersized:

http://www.thecollegefootballgirl.co...lds-OT-BYU.jpg
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1272325673
http://pfw.s3.amazonaws.com/prospect...hot_304050.jpg

The guy is seven times bigger than anyone else on the field.

And he's always been a guy who absolutely plays through the whistle looking to put his guy on the ground. Plays mean and always finishes the play.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/A3VIGQS38cY?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

(And even after dropping weight, and in the final game of the season, he still looks completely undersized, right?)

I doubt most people doing mocks have even watched a team west of the Mississippi play, let alone do a serious evaluation of a specific player.

No, Reynolds is a very good player and I seriously doubt he sees the end of the second round. You never know, but as I stated, I think he's got all the tools to be a Day 1 starter at the next level at RT and play there for a long time.

I like how you picked pictures of him taking on defensive backs for a size comparison.

LMAO

The Florida state linebacker could fit into his right pant leg.

And it just shows he can get out into the second level and engage the quick defensive backs.

Sac, I'd like to hear your thoughts on trading up to get Luck?

I agree that hes not undersized. Your anecdotal size comparisons are hilarious, however.

Do you know how many OT's would could pick with all those picks it would take us to move up? :evil:

I don't know...

Luck is a hell of a player, but I don't know if it's worth blowing two years of draft picks for to go get him. The problem is, there are no guarantees. If you go up to get him and he busts (and he doesn't seem like the guy that would, but you never know), you are totally screwed - for a long, long time. If he's Elway, it's worth it. Especially with the potential receiving corps that the Chiefs will have in 2012. It's a real roll of the dice though.

It's going to cost someone a Ricky Williams level deal plus to move up and get him and the Chiefs are close to building a pretty good team.

Part of me would love to see them do it, part of me says it's not worth it. Give Stanzi a shot and draft a guy like Brandon Weeden or Kellen Moore (two winners that are fundamentally sound) this year in the mid-rounds (four or five) and build a strong team on both sides of the ball.

Right now I'm leaning towards the latter, and have the Chiefs trade down a few spots and pick up a guy like Konz and a late second or third rounder in the deal. I don't think that they can move behind Dallas though because it's a real possibility that the Cowboys will pick either Konz or DeCastro and I think an elite level center is more valuable than a top flight guard.

If we could come out of the draft with Konz, Hightower, Reynolds, and Chris Polk, I'd be fine with not having Luck.

However I think it would be pretty tough to not pull the trigger and get Luck. He sets your franchise up for 15 years.

Depending upon how Hightower checks out medically, it's looking like he won't make it out of the first round.

I think he'll get looked at hard by San Diego and I don't see him dropping past Baltimore.

Detroit, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Denver along with San Diego and Baltimore would be potential spots where a linebacker, particularly a MLB, could go.

If he tests okay medically and puts up pre-injury speed numbers, he won't be there in the second. He played extremely well at the end of the season and was a real factor in the National Championship game.

True, but replace Hightower with say Burfict.

I know he's a headcase, but the dude can play .

This is the problem with QB's. If you get one, and they bust you're screwed. If you don't get one, you're screwed.

Since option one also allows for you to possibly hit on one and option two being you are just screwed, I suggest option one. Atleast there you have an "if", option two is just "you are screwed."

Newton's contract is 4 yrs 22 million. Our last two drafts top 2 guys were Baldwin, Hudson, Berry, and McCluster. Now you certainly can't say that the past two drafts show what quality you get in the next two or how much it really would take to get Luck, but...

If the options are risk
5.25 million a year on the cap with Luck
plus losing(over the next two years drafts) talent level of Baldwin, Hudson, Berry, and McCluster.

vs.

Cassel or other options

To me with somebody like Luck, or even RG3, I would take that risk on option 1. Especially when you consider how much young talent and $ we have right now.

Yea the O-line needs upgrading but I sure would hate to use our top 2 picks on the OL.

Actually this draft sets up pretty well for Kansas City.


We could come out of it with a pro bowl C, solid RT, good RB, safety depth, qb sleeper, solid depth everywhere.

QB sleeper where?

He didn't play that well this past season. He was downright horrible in the Utah-ASU game and really cost his team with some really dumb personal fouls and plays in that game alone. He can hit people, but that's about it. He didn't show very good instincts.

If it's not Kuechly in the first or Hightower in the second (barring any movement), I'd rather them go another direction, give Belcher another year of growth and possibly look at Manti Te'o of Notre Dame next year with their first rounder. After Kuechly and Hightower, there is a real drop off in talent or you'd have to hit with a diamond in the rough type guy late in the draft. (See my seventh rounder McSurdy - I think someone posted Walter's draft around here and he had us taking a Montana CB, but the real stud of the Grizzlies defense was McSurdy, who was the conference defensive POY. A real thumper with great instincts.)

I'll assume you've watched all of the UM games to backup this McSurdy claim. ROFL

He's projecting him as a 7th rounder. It sounds like he might be the Brian Shay of college linebackers.

McSurdy was no where near the heart and soul of that defense. That defense started and ended up front.

Three this past season actually. My cousin's "friend" graduated from Montana, so we usually catch a couple of the Grizzlies games every season. (Her and her friends actually have a yearly reunion of sorts here in SLC to watch one of the games - typically the Montana/Weber State matchup, which we actually go to when it's held here in Utah.)

BPA will likely be DeCastro who also fits a need.

A true game changer. A G in the top 12. FML.

49ers did it in the 2010 draft with Davis at #11 and Iupati at #17 in the first round.

What about your 5th round TE? Is there a gronkowski type coming out this year? I know we'd have to get him earlier than the 5th if there was. Watching the Pats with RG and AH make me want an elite TE, I've already forgotten what that's like from the TG days.

Chase Coffman should he available, couldn't he be an elite weapon in the passing game? Obviously a liability in run blocking but who needs to run anymore.
Posted via Mobile Device

Let's not anoint them just yet.

I'm not. I think the Jets did it a few years prior to that with D'Brick and Mangold in the first round. Not 100% sure on that, but that is what I recall.

I love the idea of fixing hte oline. Get young and really good up front, so Stanzi has a chance next year.

Mike Williams of Alabama is a tight end in the mold of a Jason Dunn type player - big, physical and is effectively another tackle on the edge. He is athletic enough to be effective in the pass game, but he's first and foremost a run blocking end - probably the best of that type in this draft.

If Moeaki is capable of coming back from his blown knee and having two very big wide receivers in Bowe and Baldwin, another pass catching type of tight end isn't really required. However, an effective run blocker like Williams is is something this offense has lacked since Dunn was let go/retired.

Williams has paved the way for two superlative running backs in Mark Ingram and Trent Richardson. He's a much better option to have in that role rather than having Moeaki stay back to cover Barry Richardson's huge blocking deficiencies or having McCluster try to keep defensive ends off of the quarterback.

However, Williams is a red shirt junior who hasn't decided if he's going to stay at Alabama or enter the draft. At this point, I'm almost thinking that he stays and works on increasing his receiving numbers which will help his draft stock in 2013.

I'm not really impressed by the tight end class this year outside of Dwayne Allen. It's definitely not the 2010 class, which was amazing - Gresham, Gronkowski, Graham, Hernandez, Pitta, Dickson, Moeaki and McCoy all are starters for their teams and Graham and Gronkowski had a record setting type season in 2011. (Though, considering who was throwing to them skewed their numbers a bit.) I think Fleener is the college version of Deon Branch - numbers and production skewed by who is throwing to him (in fact, I think all those Stanford offensive guys (Martin, DeCastro, Fleener) are a being a bit overvalued due to Andrew Luck's capabilities). (Which is why I really like Peter Konz - he had an even better year in 2011 and that's without 2011 first rounder Gabe Carimi to help him. The guy has just about every measurable and game performance to put him at "elite" level for his position.)

Yesterday was the day. According to this list, he is staying in school...

http://www.gbnreport.com/juniors.htm

Thanks Coogs. I was looking for it this morning but couldn't find anything on him. I figured that he might. Guess I gotta fix that pick.

Good thing they already had a #1 overall pick already playing at QB... LMAO

Trust me, I am all in on trading the farm for Luck. Possibly even RGIII, but more so on Luck.

Not expecting that to happen though, so I'm OK with going Konz at C, with Hudson and Asamoah at G, Albert at LT, and getting a RT in the 2nd round. I'm also OK with Hudson at C, DeCastro and Asamoah at G, Albert at LT and getting a RT in the 2nd.

What I am not really OK with is getting a LT in the first, and moving Albert somewhere else right now... but it is early.

This.

The Jets o-line situation is a disaster, primarily because they spent so much on it and it's still pretty ineffective.

I was just pointing out that it is not uncommon to go O-line with back-to-back picks to open the draft, and that two teams have actually done it in round 1 recently.

The Rams have done it too.

There's a whole lot of fail in the list of teams that have done it, actually.

It's not a good idea.

The Jets have been to the AFC Championship twice (or is it 3 times since they have done this), the 49ers this year.

Not saying it is a good thing to do at all. Just saying it might be time to fix the damn thing too, since it is a glaring weakness with age and poor play at RT.

Certainly not as important as it used to be, but I think we're seeing the best defensive teams and the teams that can run the ball advance in the playoffs, ie Giants, Ravens and 49ers.

I know you know this, but the goal isn't to make it to the AFC championship and get beat by a team with a franchise QB...

See post 121.

Sac, since you are the expert on OL, whats your take on Carl Nicks?

Would a lineup of

Albert, Nicks, Hudson, Asamoah, Reynolds be a solid oline that we could build on?

With Hudson and Asamoah being recent round two picks by the Pioli regime, and Lilja on roster, I don't see the Chiefs spending big free agent money on Nicks. He'll get paid pretty well by someone (Detroit, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Carolina and Arizona all could use an upgrade at the guard position more than the Chiefs) this offseason. I just don't see Pioli, who hasn't shown the propensity to spend large amounts of money on free agents (with the notable exception of Matt Cassel), pluniking down a lot on a free agent guard.

I think that Asamoah can be a really good player with another year under his belt, and Hudson, when given the reps this past season, really showed some great stuff. (The guy is bull strong with excellent leverage.)

They should just go ahead and draft a real center and promote Wiegmann to offensive line coach.

LMAO

They had this report over in the Shrine Bowl Thread from Monday's practice on Reynolds...

And this was from the gbn report on the same practice:

This is why the body of work by a player is a little more important than some casual observations on one day of practice at a post season all star game
by a blogger.

Fair enough.

no way reynolds is a second rounder. he's lucky if he's a 3rd or 4th rounder. jmo.

People were saying the same thing about Zane Beadles two years ago. Fourth rounder, etc. He went in the second round and made the NFL All-Rookie team and was a major reason why Denver's ground game was so good this past season.

Like Beadles, he doesn't look the part of the long, lean NFL left tackle (thick base and middle), but he is a very good player with a ton of experience at the left tackle spot. BYU ran a ton behind him as well as him being blind side protector for four consectutive years. He's a smart guy and a team leader (two time team captain) as well as having played at a high level for a long time. (Three time first team all-conference (soph, jun, sen) and was first team freshman All-American.)

The guy gets after people, likes putting guys into the dirt and is capable of getting out into the second level quickly. He's pretty athletic for a guy his size, which I think translates well to the RT spot at the next level.

Like I said, I think high second round is a bit of a reach, but I don't think he makes it out of the second. After you get past Kalil, Martin and Reiff, Reynolds is as good (and I think better) than the rest and never let anyone get the best of him all year long where guys like Datko, Sanders, Adams, Adcock and Massie were supposedly inconsistent this past season.

I do like Alex Hurst from LSU and thought he looked good in the Tiger games I saw this past season.

NFLDraftCountdown came out with their top 100 today. Reynolds is not on that list as of right now. This guy though is listed at #49, which is right in the area of our 2nd round pick...

49. Kelechi Osemele OT Iowa St.

Staying with the flow of your draft for this particular discussion, Konz in the 1st, and Osemele in the 2nd would have us looking like this...

LT Albert
LG Hudson
C Konz
RG Asamoah
RT Osemele

From the East vs West Shrine game thread: "BYU offensive tackle Matt Reynolds (6-4, 310) was smaller than expected. He had a mixed practice and should probably move inside to guard. His body shape just falls short of tackles in terms of height and arm length. Mississippi defensive end Kentrell Lockett (6-5, 243) beat him in a one-on-one, as Reynolds lost his feet and fell to the ground. In the coming days, he needs to play better."

He's just getting better and better.............

See post #134.

We already addressed this.

I only watched one Iowa State game and didn't noticed Osemele in terms of standing out. I don't know much about him. Perhaps someone who viewed a lot of Cyclone games could chime in on him.

Didn't see it.

Even so... What you quoted still hints towards a move inside to G.

I'll pass on a 2nd round pick on a 4th round projection who is likely to move inside to a position thats already filled with drafting Konz in the first and keeping Hudson at G.

I love the Berry pick.

Turns out it was the right pick and you were wrong.

Taking C at 11 is dumb.

Trading down to the bottom of the first? Okay.

No dumber than taking a safety in the top five.

It's a position that can and usually is filled with guys that can be found later in the draft and a position that is associated with a shorter longevity because of heightened injury potential. (Case in point - Berry. If he comes back from the knee injury and is fine, great. But what if he doesn't? Was it the right pick then? And to this point, he's been primarily a run defender and a liability in the passing game. I like the kid a lot, but let's not go annoitting him the next Paul Krause after one mixed rookie season. And yeah, he went to the Pro Bowl, but so did Matt Cassel.) How often has Polamalu and Bob Sanders been injured over their careers?

Vlachos in the third round is much better value and fits our zbs better than konz, imo.

LMAO dumbass

So our line will be 2 rookies and a sophmore with limited playing time?

Never gonna happen.

KC HAS to fill a few starter roles with FAs, or stick with what they have. G/C happens to have a nice FA crop this year. It's the area that should be prime focus in FA.

And people need to start being realistic about how many rookies will start for KC in 2012.

I can only think of 2. C/G, since Weigmann will hopefully retire now, depending on where the Chiefs want to go with Hudson and RT, because Richardson is worse than Tebow at his position.

I can't see anyone else starting at any position on the roster, injuries aside. The only other one I could possibly see being a potential position for a rookie to start is at CB, if Carr is not re-signed.

Is it so unrealistic to see 2 rookies, who will likely be high draft picks, starting?

This team needs depth. The starters on this team are, overall, very capable. The problem is the depth is horrible.

Still hating on Berry...hilarious.

A 'mixed rookie season'?

He had one of the best rookie seasons any safety has ever had. Ever. He was the second best player on the field for us in the playoff game, as a rookie.

Jesus ****, man. Berry was drafted because he had been a star his whole damn life from high school to college, and everyone but you could see it. And he wasn't injured because he's a hard hitting safety. He was injured because some dick bag took a cheap shot at his knee.

You're so spectacularly ****ing wrong about things. But now you want us to draft a center a #11...and a 3rd round guard in the 2nd to be a RT? Those are 'smart ideas' to you, but drafting Berry wasn't?

**** me

I hate the Cylcones, but he's pretty good.

Get the **** out with the bashing on Eric Berry. He was a legit ROY candidate. STFU and STFD.

Reynolds isn't even a 3rd round prospect, he's getting just killed at the shrine game practices.

You win games in the trenches.

You win championships behind the trenches.

I've already addressed this elswhere, but I'll go ahead and touch on here again.

You ignore the progress Berry made as a pass defender because it doesn't fit your agenda.

Troy Palomaulu, Ed Reed, Darren Sharper Bob Sanders and Donte Whitner to a lesser extent belie your positional value argument.

That being said, I think center is undervalued and could get behind the idea of taking Knnz, if we could trade down.

But I also think Chris Myers or Nick Hardwick would be better options through free agency.

Whats the story with Brewster? Could he be had in the second?

I am endorsing either trading down or just picking Tannehill if he is there. If he's not just take who ever you want just to make sure you get him.

I know one thing, if Hightower is around in the second we better take him. The dude is built to be the perfect thumper next to DJ. I like Belcher and all but Hightower would make this Lb core Steelers of the past 4 or 5 years good.

There's still the issue of NT, ILB, CB, WR, FB. We also have no depth at S, TE, RB.

With the number of snaps KC stands to lose through FA, they need to be smart about how they fill openings. O line happens to be the easiest to fill with quality this year via FA.

Even assuming we re-sign Carr, Bowe, and Belcher, we still have no NT, blocking TE, or FB.

Using injuries as a reason for Berry being a bad pick is so far past dumb that I dont even know where to start.

Oh, yeah I do.

Your dumbass wanted us to draft Okung who has missed 10 games to injury and hasn't been anything special when he has played.

Berry > all of your picks
Albert > Okung

Case closed.

If we move down into the late teens or early 20s, Konz would be a damn good pick...at 11, it would be overspending.

Hudson gives us the versatility to sit back till the second or third round to pick the best guard or center available and let Hudson take over the other spot.

So just assume that we resign McClain, then, by your count we're only short a blocking TE and a NT. Both of which are available in the draft.

This. Except I think that unless we get our RT early and a stud g/c falls, we go into next season with Hudson at center and Lilja at guard.

This line has been an obvious problem since Pioli got here, and he only seems willing to add one new piece a year.

This is why you are an idiot.

Berry was a high school quarterback who got signed as an "athlete" to Tenessee. The guy didn't even have an official position when he got there.

And I had no problem with the Chiefs taking him when they did. They had a hole at safety and it filled a need. However, he was far from a finished product and it showed his rookie year as he was singularly responsible for a number of touchdowns in the passing game. He ended the season as essentially a third middle linebacker.

And now you are saying that Reynolds is a third round guard after he has played the left tackle position his entire college career which netted him a first team freshman All-American selection and three consectutive first team All-Conference selections at the left tackle position. But now he's a guard.

You must be a ****ing football genius. Because you read one bloggers take after one post season practice.

I don't know what you do in life, but you are wasting yourself. You should be running a scout team for the best team in the NFL because you are so ****ing balls out right about everything NFL.

I apologize that I put out this mock because you are right and everyone else is wrong. And I am obviously in that second group.

I bow to your kick ass scouting skills. You know more than everyone.

And Hudson has shown enough at the center position, at either the college or NFL level, to justify this statement?