Shit, sorry. Meant to say Wade Phillips in Houston. Stupid mistake.

A deep playoff run? ROFL

With zero injuries and good QB play we might be a playoff team. A one and done playoff team.

That's it.

Dom Capers.

****ing priceless.

Not sure how you can thoroughly judge Baldwin based on his time in league and playing time or Breaston for that matter based on playing time (he was solid in ARZ). I'm no fan, but McCluster isn't as bad as some think (although I'll conceed his draft postition was stupid and wouldn't mind him leaving).

I can't help but think with a good Offensive coordinator and even a half assed QB, this WR corp looks waaay better.

We won't make the Super Bowl until we have a very good QB. I agree with that, which is why I'm not saying we should be happy with Kyle Orton.

I just don't buy the board on here in a panic that our team is so bad we need an overhaul. How can people look at the 2012 defense and 2011 defense and not see that the same players are playing 100 times worse? How can anyone not see that Kyle Orton, while failing to close drives, moved the ball down the field in drives seamlessly even behind a brokedick offensive coordinator.

I don't know how anybody can look at this 2012 team and even for a second claim that this is what both units are capable of.

That was an honest mistake. I thought of Houston and Capers was the name that came to my head. It's not what I meant at all.

RGIII has a bunch of assholes dropping balls all over the place. They had like 9 drops yesterday. No excuse. Plus his OL is average at best.

We don't need an overhaul.

But we need 7 or 8 new starters for sure. Plus depth.

Because he isn't just bad. He's completely invisible.

Matt Cassel actually HAS HAD SOME SUCCESS with SOME receivers in this league.

They didn't completely suck. Key.

Easily correct taking into account the O and D lines, plus secondary.

We can judge Baldwin because we have empirical evidence for what a true #1 WR does out of the blocks, even with a shit QB.

That's an exaggeration. We need an overhaul of our coaching staff. We need a new QB. Those things alone make this team a very good football team.

We always act like we should have 22 very good starters. It's just not typical in today's NFL. I"m not going to get riled up if we're missing a guard or a free safety. We have more than enough talent at the key positions to support a very good head coach and QB. Putting Jim Harbaugh's staff (OC + DC) alone makes this team competitive. Replacing the QB on a Harbaugh coached team makes this team a contender. Chipping away at those 7 or 8 starters just makes the job easier.

You're really telling me that putting RGIII or even Tannehill and the entire 49ers Coaching staff alone doesn't make this team a serious contender?

And a #2 in Breaston.

I'm telling you that the players we've discussed in this thread have no business starting in the NFL on a perennial playoff team.

We are the Browns, Midwest.

So they start for us.

Remember when Eric Warfield went to New England? His ass didn't even make the final roster.

We can also judge him because he runs sloppy, half-assed routes, struggles to find the ball in the air, and does a piss-poor job of using the sideline on the handful of jump balls he's thrown.

1 and 2 are key.

If you're a QB - much less a QB getting ass-fisted by fans and media - are you going to trust a guy like Baldwin who runs sloppy routes? Who doesn't get to where he's expected to be? Who struggles to find the ball in the air?

I sure as **** wouldn't.

Dude hasn't even improved at the basics.

To be fair, the sidelines are different in St. Joe.

Seriously, though, some of those criticisms were and are aimed at Bowe, too. And the mother****er still produced, and produced, and produced.

And he won't be a Chief next year because we hired the dumbest mother****er in the world to be our GM.

Jon Baldwin had 2 targets last game, and one was a horizontal pass thrown as soon as the ball was snapped.

JAKE O'CONNELL had more targets.

It speaks volumes that our QB sucks, and our QB was bitching at him at the end of the game for a route run the wrong way.

If Matt Cassel thinks you suck, and Chiefsplanet agrees with Matt Cassel on the issue, holy balls, you suck.

That 1% theory was a unique approach to looking at the team and how they changed talent for the worse in most cases.

Baldwin can't even run a ****ing route properly.

There are lots of teams with that problem, even the good ones. The difference is that in the past, our starters weren't even worthy of a roster spot on an NFL Europe squad. Even our bad starters are fringe starters / quality backups. I think we're really getting nitpicky if we're going to get riled up about Guards and slot receivers and 5-techniques. And most of those guys aren't even terrible. They're just not very good.

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't do better. I'm not defending the way Pioli built his team, because Moeaki should be Gronk or Graham. Baldwin should have been Dalton. The list goes on. But the team has improved dramatically and that will show with wholesale changes in the coaching staff and with an improved QB. Should it continue to improve? Of course. I'd expect nothing less. But we're not in some dire situation where a new GM can't make this a deep playoff contender with just a few effective offseason moves.

I'll agree with you on Baldwin. Was never high on him and still am not.

It should have been Andy Dalton. I'm not sold that he's an answer, but at least it meant we were trying.

This.

This I agree completely with.

But there is no way we can start a guy like Jon Baldwin next year, or Stanford Routt.

We can probably "get by" with Arenas at NCB or Jackson at LDE.

Now we're on the same page. Agree with this. Though I think Routt will be just fine if our front 5 starts to finally do their job consistently.

I think Baldwin is a talented knuckle head just like he was at PITT, but I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't think he is in a position to excell so I call him an incomplete. Fine even shitty Casshole made Bowe look good, but he can't very well contune to feed Bowe and have targets left for Baldwin when they aren't game planning to throw the ball in the first place. He's been out there for a little more than half the snaps of DBowe, I don't see where he can be clearly judged in this offense.

The success from this team comes from the Carl/Herm era.

Pioli gets to hang his hat on a 2010 Eric Berry and Houston falling into his lap in the 3rd rd.

How many first quarter turnovers inside our 50?

If you don't want to blame the D, just roll tape of Tampa Bay's first drive of the 2nd half.

Or take a look at how many pts we've allowed this year...

Is that supposed to be guaranteed points?

The defense's job is to keep the team from scoring, not say, "well, it's not our fault the opposition got the ball on our 40 and we gave up a TD."

You're so awesome at predictions that everybody else picks your sig and avatar.

Yes, that's correct.

Thigpen, who made eye love with Gonzo on every passing play, still found time to cheat with Bowe.

Tyler ****ing Thigpen, coached by Herm ****ing Edwards.

We don't need a guard other than depth. Hudson broke a bone in his leg, he will be fine

Gochiefs, you are an asshat.

Steve Breaston was better than Baldwin and Mccluster when he played with HOF QB Kurt Warner. Now, playing with Cassel and Quinn, he is the worst of the three. Better fi d a better argument.

Dick Curl BIOTCH!

Look at this offense and then the snap counts, you're comparing apples and oranges. Plus Bowe/Gonzo were almost always on the field...an extra WR not as much. I'm not trying to say Baldwin is or will be great, but it's hardly been long enough especially with this team to pass judgement on him.

Book has not been written on him, though the opening chapters suck shit.

Let's face facts, the whole freaking Chiefs book over the last 10 years has sucked ass.

We've been blown out more times under this GM than almost all the times prior to him and we are only 1% worse?

:facepalm:

Well, his point was, this team got worse when Pioli thought it was gonna be better and PIOLI Has ****ed up this team and has no clue what he's doing. He has a freaking radio talk show. what else is he supposed to talk about? who's winning on xfactor and the voice?

You clearly didn't listen...

No,I was going by someone's footnotes..

Put Geno, Barkley or Wilson on this team and Baldwin/Breaston look 25X better.

If Bowe leaves Tony G style next year, then I think we'll be okay with Baldwin, Breaston and an early 2nd round pick like Cordarell Patterson, Tavon Austin or Stedman Bailey.

Quality first round QB's tend to make WR's look better.

25x0 = 0

Not even going to ask why you lumped an experienced, accomplished NFL veteran like Breaston in with a ne'er-do-well like Baldwin.

:clap::clap::clap:

Baldwin has a ton of potential. Put him in Breaston's position when he was in Arizona with Warner and he looks great.

Pretty sure this is dead on.....Listen to ANY ex NFL WR talk about Baldwin.... it's not positive....guy can't run routes.....no discipline... and not sure he can figure out the routes... AS far as DMac... not nearly as negative.... kid is a fighter .... not going down that negative road.... actually like the guy. But Baldwin..not so sure

Kurt Warner would rip Baldwin's head off and shit down his neck for sucking ass....there's no way he could play in a complicated offense.

The guy is ****ing lost out there and has no grasp on the mental part of the game.

He's just a big lumbering ox with straight line speed and jumping ability....he should go play street ball.

Yeah but Bill Belichick says he was just as good as Julio Jones.........that's supposed to be gospel.

What everyone is missing in this exercise is Clueless Hunt made the wrong decision between Pioli and Thomas Dimitroff. Make it 1, 10, 50% it all falls on Hunt and his decision. Two organizations hired two player personnel guys to be the GM of their team from the Patriots at the same time and in typical KC sports luck we got the shit end of a 50/50 decision. Four years later...........ESPN power rankings 1. Falcons, 32. Chefs

Just how we roll in KC.

**** Baldwin. He has no seperation quickness.

Dimitroff wasn't available to Hunt at the time Pioli was hired, dude.

Other than the fact that he is playing is a shit system with shit QB's, his separation quickness isn't a huge issue. Well, it is when we only have three yard outs or two yard crossing patterns in the playbook.

The guy is 6'4" with a 40"+ vertical. Send the dude deep and keep on running. We just need a QB that can get the ball there...right now we don't. In 2013, we will.

Geno.

I think all these WR's would look a hell of a lot better if we had anything at QB.

I don't like the guy. I said this when he was drafted. He is a Randy Moss clone except he's not even CLOSE to the athlete Moss was. Baldwin only knows how to run one route. The straight line route. How many times does he get crossed up running the wrong route? How many times does he run the right route terribly?

It would be different if you felt like he could improve. I think he's uncoachable. He's a guy who spends a ton of time in the weight room and then is a pain in the ass when you try to coach him football.

Baldwin did nothing last year with Orton at QB.

You are correct. Something made me think they both left NE the same year, but my main point still stands.........we always get it wrong or it flames out in KC when it looks like a rock star hire..........Dayton Moore..........Pioli.

Baldwin missed half the year and then played with 3 QB's...as a rookie. Let's give him a chance dude.

He's shown flashes of enormous potential. If he doesn't do anything next year with a first round QB, then call him a bust.

Always with the excuses.

The flashes Baldwin have shown are so few and far between he's less impressive than Sylvester Morris at this point.

Although, hes being coached by RAC

And as of right now, Berry looks average and most people think he is over rated. His pass coverage has sucked.

He is a great run stopper though

Was also coached by Wannstedt and Haley. The knock on him in college was... yeah, his QB was never that great, but you'd want to see him improve.

In practice only...

He did have the catch of the year.

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What you have is a problem.

Seek help.

A good quarterback makes all his receivers and people around him look better than they are. I think this is the case with Ryan he's making his surrounding cast look better than they are.

Really think that's the case in Atlanta though?

ROFL It's not like he has the greatest TE of all time, a superfreak WR they sold the farm to get, and a 2010 MVP long shot canidate on the other side.

Ryan has gotten better but don't kid yourself.

Who is smarter? Mo Claiborne or Jon Baldwin?

Well Claiborne got the lowest ever wonderlic test score