Well at least Reed got Asmith worst bust ever and AJJunk worst first round ever he likes trash

Reid outside the 9ers stadium:

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...D3rZwYHWMxqp-7

Done and done.

Yet your still pissed

Your issue was you thought he would switch back to a 4-3.


You were wrong.

Try to pay attention. You used to be quite good at that until you, admittedly, put the rose colored glasses back on.

I still LOVE the Reid hire...the moves I disagree with are:

1) trading so much for Alex Smith (I'm on record before the trade saying Id be ok with a MAX of a third rounder for him)

2) signing Dante Robinson

3) Drafting Eric Fisher at 1 when that move doesn't significantly upgrade the team like a top overall pick NEEDS to.

I'm fine with just about everything else they did.

Way to miss the point. As expected.

You can't determine that what we traded for a guy was too much before he plays a game. Even with that, we traded a second round pick for a starting qb better than any we could have drafted with said pick.

If its a second rounder next year, we went 8-8 or better which will likely show a few things. Andy Reid, the hire you love, runs an offense that has shown over and over to be one that doesn't allow a qb to hide behind a running game and defense.

It's ironic that all the elite or bust guys are furious with this move when, like djln said, we got the qb out of the draft who has the highest ceiling, and paired him with what everyone here at the time of the signing called a qb guru and passed in a guy who's upside at this point is the guy we just traded for.

Yeah, would have loved for there to have been Peyton manning sitting there at 1.1. But to say we drafted a guy who doesn't improve te team is a little off base when you in turn advocate that we should have taken a qb at 1.1 who wouldn't significantly upgrade the team either.

If you want to argue they should have taken someone else, I can get on board with that. I would have taken Richardson there, but I can see the upside if you will with taking fisher. Yes, I don't like the pick, but I can also look at te player an realize that he has the chance to be an elite player due to his skillet and probably is one of the players from the draft who's has the best chance to reach that level.

This works both ways.

You can't determine that before Geno/EJ even play one season.

For their careers no. For this upcoming season? I think that's fairly obvious

That's honestly irrelevant and isn't going to result in a championship.

For Reid and Dorsey not to look dumb, the 5 years of Alex Smith we're getting has to result in a better shot at a championship than the entire careers of EJ and Geno.

So there again you come back to the elite or bust talk. If either of those guys become elite, we ****ed up. If they become solid nfl starters? Nah.

But in reality, it seems we gt the best of both worlds, in that we got the best option to win this year, and the best prospect at qb from the entire draft class (sans the fact he might be a sociopath) in a guy who was considered a first round pick at one time.

And if we are "championship or bust" wouldn't you prefer Togo with the guy with the highest ceiling a the most important position?

Alex and all our free agents were not game changers - they were immediate upgrades possible due to unused cap.

Just like Smith isn't the long term answer at QB the same is also not the long term answer at CB.

It's an upgrade - we had the cap - we're one step better at that position...

If they are better than Alex we ****ed up. We don't know how good Alex is going to be.

Jury is out. You cannot sit here and say "oh we didn't trade too much for Alex, wait and see" and then say "X rookie QB wasn't worth the pick." Double standard.

So if they're better than Alex, but still not franchise qbs is it a mistake?

Jeez. Listen to yourself

Yes, we do...

Same as the Alex smith better than bad doesn't equal good sentiment, just because those guys are better, doesn't make tem good enough. Maybe they will be, maybe they won't be.

But the qb guru head coach we wanted and the gm we all wanted thought they weren't or wouldn't be, so until we know one way or another I'm not gonna bitch about it.

Again, if we're elite or shit, Super Bowl or bust, I'd prefer them to go with the guy with the highest upside. They seem to have done that, so I'll sit back and let it play out.

They went with the best upgrade option out there.

He's not the guy with the best upside...

Talking about Bray.

I think it's fairly obvious what we can expect from Axl. Middle of the road results overall.

Thinking that Brays upside is greater than Geno or EJs is baseless.

Both of those guys are accomplished passers and have a secondary weapon that Bray will NEVER have...legs.

Also, to say Geno or EJs upsides are that of Alex Smith is also baseless. EJ is far more athletic and is just as smart and has a better arm.

Geno has a better arm, more mobility and throws a beautiful deep ball (which Alex doesnt)...his problem is dealing with adversity.

It's ****ing straight up silly that Alex Smith has taken on this god like figure with some of you. The guy is a below average starter that will need to play the best ball of his entire career to justify the compensation given up to get him.

And no, Alex isn't as good as any guy we could have gotten with the pick...if we traded from our second rounder and used next years second...that gets us up to the middle of the first round.

Just because guys wear a KC logo doesn't mean they automatically are gonna be better.

Most of the time, history shows it's the other way around

That'll leave a mark. LMAO

Couple things.

I dot know which geno you watched, but he doesn't have a better arm and he doesn't throw a better deep ball. That's just blatantly wrong.

The second we move this year for smith, was essentially used on a qb better right now than any qb available. If its a second next year, he played well and likely had a lot to do with us winning more than 8 games. WS not hiding behind a run game here, look at the pre season games.

You need to move past the emotion of this whole thing. Geno isn't te prospect your building him up to be, he doesn't currently have the things you say he does. That's not to say he won't ever, but at this point he doesn't. At this point, his upside is Alex smith.

Further more, you haven't refuted anything I've said in this thread and you continue to look past anything relevant anyone says on the subject.

I don't think Bray will ever amount to whatever EJ or Geno do.

If I could compare any college QB to Ryan Leaf it would be Bray.

His immaturity is not a question it's ****ing NOTORIOUS.

That said he's a natural. He's born to play the game but he's an insufferable prick. In combine interviews guys that played with him talked him down.

That said I'd draft Leaf in a heart beat if he was there in the 7th round...

i am hoping that sitting on the bench for a year or 2 will crush that ego a bit and force him to grow up.

Alex Smith will = Trent Green during his good years. Lookit, he's more athletic and has a similar arm and playing style. Both guys play very smart. KC can win with this guy just like the Bucs did with Dilfer who had less upside that either Trent or Alex IMO.

What KC needs is to win (Tradition) and continue to fill out the team. Need another stud receiver for starters.

Even though KC is a young team the window is going to start closing on Tamba and DJ in the next two to three years.

I think Smith is a winner and is capable of hitting the 25 yard skinny post. I know he dinked and dunked in SF but I think he has athletic upside that he hasn't shown yet.

O.city stopped giving a shit about this team because he's got a lot of real life responsibilities coming his way, but he interpreted that in his mind as going full homer for some reason.

Whatever, though. I can respect the guy's decisions.

Also, five years ago I thought Reid would have succumbed to heart disease.

I WAS DEAD WRONG! PLEASE FORGIVE ME, MARCELLUS

Ditto...

Pretty much. Sorry if it comes across as assholish to anyone, I just got to the point that if they give me good football to watch on Sundays and beat some good teams, I'm fine with that. I've got the cardinals and the jayhawks to fulfil my championship needs I guess.

I also realized that te chiefs are one o the worst franchises in sports and if they ha e a couple year stretch here where they relive the 90's I'll enjoy it.

Life's too short to bitch an moan about stuff I can't control and I like the front office as coaches we brought in. I'll sit back, enjoy life and let it happen

Uhhhh..............no. Sorry. Just.....no.

That is straight up bullshit.
An NFL veteran has established his value, and Alex Smith was in no way worth a 2nd and 3rd round pick.

If I go to buy a used car and pay used Mercedes price for a used Toyota just because someone else wanted that same used Toyota, I ****ed myself.

No matter how you spin it, the cost can not be justified.

I don't give a rat's ass if Alex goes on to win the next 10 SBs, his value at the time of the trade was no ****y near the price paid.

You haven't been an asshole at all. Being a Chiefs fan makes the soul tired and old. You're just doing what you can do.

Exactly, Milk.

Before last season, Alex Smith was an unrestricted free agent and had little to no interest as a starter elsewhere...then, he gets benched for a superior player (that was drafted in the second round, to define irony) last year and KC give up a second and third round pick (minimum) for hom and some just guzzle the Koolaid.

The most puzzling part?

Adam Schefter went on tv right after the trade and said no other team was willing to give up a second pick...but we give up 2 PREMIUM picks.

Oh well, I guess.

I think people in general (not just on Chiefs Planet) don't understand the concept of "at the time."

It's like the Dontari Poe pick. The dude appears to be doing very well for himself, and *knock on wood* he'll turn into something REALLY special for us on the defensive line.

That doesn't justify the pick we made for him at the time, when we were getting a guy with no college production at freakin' Memphis, and who couldn't get upfield pressure one-on-one against a guard from Arkansas State all game.

Likewise, Tyson Jackson gets talked about as, "At least we didn't pick Aaron Curry or one of those other epic busts in the top 10." No, hindsight can't polish a turd, and it DEFINITELY can't justify spending the 3rd overall on a 5-tech when we had so many other needs.

Eric Fisher... yeah, not even gonna go there.

And this.

It reminds me in ways of a wife that knows their husband is cheating on them, but ignores it so she can keep a smile on her face.

alex smith makes chris matthews look like rod marinelli

If he goes on to win the next 10 SB's I'd trade every 1st round pick for 12 years.

You kidding me?

If an angel of God came down from heaven today and told me we could win a SB if I punched my mother in the face that bitch would be dead yesterdsay...

Exactly.

Is going from Cassel, Winston and Albert to Smith and Fisher worth the first overall pick and 2 second round pislcks (one being the second pick in the second round?)

I don't think so and would love to be wrong.

Poor analogy. The better comparison is the price you pay for a race horse, not a car.

And if your point about paying too much for Smith is true, the same could be said for what the redskins gave up for RGIII.

I don't know anything about horse racing because I was born in the 20th Century.

I think milkman falls into the same category.

ROFL

You don't gamble on a car. You might overpay for a car but you can always make it perform to expectations.

The NFL is much closer to horse racing. You are gambling on every horse in the stable and whether or not a transaction is successful is based on the return, not the cost.

Value for veteran players is based on previous NFL production.
Value for draft picks is based on potential.

If Andrew Luck mysteriously busts out of the league for some reason, did the Colts make the wrong pick?

No, they still did the right thing at the time. Hindsight only gets you so far.

I think that's a poor analogy, but i get your point.

However, like a draft pick I don't think you can judge a trade at the time of the trade. You can easier because you know what a guy has been to that point, but you don't know what he'll be in a different system for sure.

Value also depends on what the buyer sets it as, to a degree

I don't know anything about horse racing, but you wouldn't pay premium price for an established horse that has a mediocre record, would you?

On the flip side, you would probably have paid premium price for the pick of any horse of the Seattle Slew litter.

Respectfully I don't agree. It's te same as free agent contracts. If your paying for past production, your doing it wrong.

Same as I don't think Reid a Dorsey paid what they paid for Alex smiths past production, but for what e can bring.

Value of a vet also is based partially on potential. Production and potential are what you gamble on.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match about it, I just don't think you can judge the transaction until you see the results.

Let's start a horse-racing crew. Who here is short enough to ride? Anyone care to guess what the name of our first stallion will be?:D

I'll be short enough in a couple of years.

You're gambling on the return. You don't know if it was a good gamble until you see the return. I get you think Reid overpaid and you're quite possibly right.

Yes, some weight has to be given to potential, but most weight, by far, has to be previous production.

And Smith's previous production, even with consideration of potential within your system, in no way matches the cost.

LMAO Drink more milk.

Fair enough, you don't see eye to eye with Reid on potential.

I'm curious to know if you think the redskins paid too much for rgiii.

**** no.

I'd love to get together and play poker sometime.

I am not as high on RGIII as most here.

From a pure talent perspective, he has an unlimited ceiling, which is well worth the price.

However, I do question his long term durability, and because of that, I would not have paid that price.

I will take you:

http://www.craveonline.com/images/st...e_Only_One.jpg

I can appreciate the consistency.

You continue to defile all my geek loves...

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/defau...ly-one.jpg.jpg

If we have a shot to draft a legit QB prospect in the first round from here on out, then I think we should do it, but there is no question that Alex Smith was the best possible QB to get for now.

No quarterback will EVER be good enough for true fans like yourself, but we can draft hundreds of linemen busts and you guys have an endless slew of excuses for them and always go back and are like "but we should have drafted quarterback x, that wasn't good enough at the time.

This is how it's always been and how it will always be.

RunKC, I'm curious. What were your thoughts on trading up in 2012 to go get Ryan Tannehill ahead of the Dolphins?

He hated Tanehill a d actually wanted us to draft Tyler Wilson until the possibility was real and then he began to back off.

Like I said, no QB will ever be good enough for some of these guys.

Those guys are ok if a linemen busts (like every one we ever drafted except for Albert, who he is ok with us letting walk after this year)...but the team should probably never draft a quarterback because.....well....

You try so hard to be Clay and it's so funny. Except you're an idiot.

Still think Fisher was a project but Ansah should've been drafted? :LOL:

I thought his wife had more upside

I wouldn't have traded up for tannehill, if I'm trading up its for the elite prospect (rgIII).

Would have given up however many picks fr him.

:facepalm:

You can rag on the picks all you want.

Ragging on Dontari Poe because he didn't produce in college is downright stupid. Of all the picks we've made the past umpteen years, that's one pick we got right, even if he busted.

I would of been OK with Ansah....

In regards to picks, what does it matter if the pick is justified at the time? If he produces and becomes a good player, what does that matter?

It's all about risk to reward. Blue chip guys rarely bust where unknown quantities bust far more often.

Obviously that's a given.

But like I said, if a guy turns out to be a great player, it shouldn't matter what he was or wasn't when he was picked.

Like Poe. He was a project there, but if he turns into a force up front, does it matter that he was a reach 2 years ago?

That's what confused me.

Berry and Jackson and Fisher were conservative picks. Poe was a gamble, and that's why I loved the pick. I think it's hypocritical for people to knock the Poe pick, then question why the Chiefs didn't pick Geno Smith.

Even if Poe reaches his potential, DTs only impact 5% of a football game...if Tanehill reaches his upside, he will impact 75% of every game he plays.

I'd be very excited if we had a Tanehill/Reid combo right now.

You and I were in the minority of wanting to draft the kid.

Let's say we had traded up To 6 and given up the same compensation to do so as Dallas did (even though we owned slot 11 and Dallas owned slot 14....meaning we would have probably had to give up LESS to move up)

Who here wouldn't trade Dontari Poe and Jeff Allen for Ryan Tanehill?

Id make that trade in a New York minute.

But yeah, he wasn't good enough.

I wanted Tannehil bad. Knew he'd go to Miami though.

NOW they would, but back then it was too much.

Just like Pioli wanted a do-over for not drafting Dalton... AFTER Dalton leads the Bengals to the playoffs his first two years in the league and Pioli is facing losing his job to the angry KC mob.