Don't like.

Not sure why, just don't like. I think there's some stupid lurking in there...

Seems like a lot of fingers massaging the offensive dough. Is Childress supposed to mentor Pederson?

They are going to switch to more one gapping and Rapoti/TJ are athletic enough to get pressure in that type defense. Having Poe also gives flexibility to rotate and he can motor also.

The thing about 1 gapping DE's is that when you have a guy with 4 foot long arms, he has a lot of range in the pocket. Rapoti is a guy I have followed a bit. Trust me, he's got tools in the one gap.

Your points on Jackson are tired. I'm not going to address them since this is really just a dead horse. If the guy is so bad, they'll cut him. He's no star, but he's decent.

And I've admitted several times that it's simply my personal preference, so I'll not call anyone a dipshit for being excited about staying with the 3-4.

I'll call Tinballs an idiot for saying we're better suited for a 3-4 because we have Pitoitua on our team. I'll also remain a little flummoxed by the idea that this mediocre retread was the best 3-4 guy we could come up with, but so be it.

I guess Keith Butler's just going to keep waiting for LeBeau to die.

Hey wait a minute, Tigers fans - with Ryan's firing you know our ol' buddy Matt Eberflus will be looking for a job. TO THE SHIP!!!

It is going to be interesting to see what happens this year.

For the record, if I were committed to sticking with the 3-4, I'd have probably waited to see if we could interview Reggie Herring out of Texas. This fossil wasn't going anywhere, he'd have been available in a couple of weeks. There's a guy with good track record that's earned a shot, IMO.

If you're going to hire a guy that isn't a slam dunk hire, might as well hire one with upside. Herring would've been a great hire. He's followed Phillips to two spots now, has DC experience in college and has a very nice track record with the pass rush and aggressive LBers.

Much better hire than Sutton.

For the second straight year, the Jets have followed the same pattern on defense: Lousy before the bye week, solid after the bye.
A year ago, it was good enough to get them to the playoffs. This time, it likely will result in a bye-bye for coordinator Bob Sutton, who could be the scapegoat for the Jets' disappointing season.
Eric Mangini, choosing his words carefully Friday before the team's final practice, gave Sutton a mixed evaluation. He praised Sutton for the second-half resurgence, but Mangini made it a point to mention the slow starts - twice in the same answer.
"I've been pleased with the way that Bob has approached things, his consistency, and the defense has made a significant amount of progress," he said. "You're always looking for it to be consistent throughout the whole year. That's what you want."
Failing to build on the momentum from last season's playoff push, the defense was terrible over the first nine games, ranking 31st in yards allowed. During the bye week, they tweaked their philosophy, becoming more aggressive and using the bench more liberally than early in the season.
That, coupled with the emergence of rookies David Harris and Darrelle Revis, has allowed the Jets to climb to 22nd in total defense. But some close to the team believe the improvement can be attributed to Mangini, who has taken a more active role in the operation.
"Obviously, this year is not good enough," said Sutton, whose unit finished 20th last season. "You're in this to win and we're not winning. If you talk to the players, they'll have the same feeling. You don't want to put in this kind of time and effort and not be successful.
"I don't think any of us are happy or pleased with where we're at," he continued. "Are there some segments that have done well or players that have done well? Yeah, we'd be crazy not to say that. But it hasn't been done consistently well enough to produce the results we need."
Mangini said he won't consider any potential staff changes until after Sunday's season finale against the Chiefs (4-11) at the Meadowlands. No doubt, he's keeping an eye on the Oakland situation, where coordinator Rob Ryan - a close friend of Mangini - could be in trouble.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...#ixzz2HgjjiFzs

Oh, and re Hali -- he has terribly slow feet. He'll never be as successful playing 43RDE. He can motor for a big guy, but he does not have the quick feet of a 43DE.

Missed that. Still think he's a good fit for this team.

Brian. Daboll.

But way older.

Hali is a LDE in a 4-3, not a RDE.

We REALLY don't have the personnel for a 4-3.

Hali was real damned average as a 4-3 end; decent pass rush, liability vs. the run. He just got swallowed. Have you forgotten? Also, as he puts on the 10-15 lbs he'll need to be barely adequate against the run, look for a return of his foot problems. Notice those went away when he dropped back to what is his 'natural' weight.
DJ was lost in a 4-3.
Houston doesn't really have a position in a 4-3. He's too small for an end, too big for a LB that will need to cover RB's in space.
You'd have to re-sign Dorsey, who's your only real 4-3 piece. Let Jackson walk.
You've got Poe, who can physically play DT, but he's a gap further away from the center/QB exchange.
You'll need a 4-3 end and to remake your entire LB corps.

There's a lot of question marks in the switch. IF you keep a 3-4 and just go one gap, you've got most of your question marks covered. Jackson is NOT a terrible player, he's just not a #3 overall quality player. Restructure and sign. Poe and Powe make a nice NT rotation. If you let Dorsey go, you need a 5 tech but you could make due with your rotational guys of Smith, Rapoti, and Bailey(if healthy). The biggest plus is you can count on Hali and Houston, who are both excellent in their roles. So you could use an upgrade at DE and you need a ILB. Not that hard to find.

I don't like it. It's a do-over and that'll take at least two offseasons.

look, I said Hali/Rapoti on one side with Poe in the middle plus TJ/Houston on the other side is a formidable 1 gap pass rush. Idiot.

Regardless of what coach does what in this list, the most important aspect is that Clark has completely flushed the old watch and brought in fresh faces at practically every coaching spot in the span of two weeks, provided this list is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt Bad Guy at all). Throw in the imminent hiring of Dorsey, and this is huge for us going forward.

Pretty much...

I just can't believe there was no one better than this guy available

Bob Sutton is a horrible hire. JFC, why?

Yeah, I think that's true.

And yeah, he got beat up a little the first time he was an LDE, but he's gotten much stronger since then and he's just flat out gotten smarter. I honestly don't see anything in his skill-set that would keep him from being among the better LDE's in the league.

Houston, by the same token, could be an elite RDE. His explosiveness is damn uncommon for a guy with his strength. He'd have some learning to do, for sure, he'd have to pick up some pass-rush technique but he's slowly coming along there as a LOLB.

And he'd be free to do what he does well far more often - kill the QB.

As to Chris's statement that DJ was lost in a 4-3...DJ was lost in everything when he was young. He's come so far, so fast that I think he'd easily make the transition to a 4-3. He'd be a good MLB and an outstanding Sam. It would depend in large part on who you could find in the draft/FA where you'd put him.

Thats what was recorded at the DC Combine! He scratched on his first attempt so there was alot of pressure to put up a low number!ROFL

you look stupid suggesting 43 stuff. It isn't in this team's plan. except it knucklehead.

Hopefully we can get some stability on offense. These guys have had to learn 5 systems in 4 years. No wonder they suck. That is just too much to deal with.

True, but the biggest problem has been a QB that would suck running any offense.

This.

He would also be the first coach ever to do better his second go-round. I'm sure Mangini who's a defensive mind had nothing at all to so with the Jets defense while Sutton was DC.

As for offense, it's going to be all Reid. Of course he's going to hire guys experienced in HIS scheme. He would be reeruned to hire guys who clash.

Why?

Even though its irrelevant, Hali can play RE in a 4-3. He was too bulked up before, but if you follow the Chiefs you would know he's a lot lighter and faster now.

Why is this a horrible hire?

I think Hali is most definitely a RDE not a LDE.

nah, there are only two systems in the NFL -- WCO & E/P... Everything else is a hybrid variant of those two.

Y'all need to stop making excuses for this piss poor assembly of offensive talent. I agree the QB'ing has been primary in this cluster**** and the OL has been terrible as well, but out side of Jamaal (who BTW shines every year despite all this fail) these players need to get going or get out.

Bullshit.

The Coryell/Zampese offense came before Bill Walsh's WCO.

semantics -- coryell was WCO too... as in west coast, cali.

Shut the ****. It's a completely different philosophy.

Own up, Dumbass.

dane, you trolling piece of ****. the game was run. then came the AFL and "those pass happy west coasters".

Got no time for your BS these days. Your hair splitting BS is tired anyway man. Relax. go to the dispensary. Lates.

West Coast Offense roots are from Paul Brown which is Ohio. It got called West Coast Offense because of the success of the 49ers in the 80s.

Air Coryell Offense roots are from Sid Gillman.

I was told not to buy for a second that Kiffin wasn't interested in coming here.

Kiffin was talking to Andy Reid last week and was interested.

Dallas knew this. They wanted to hire him as a senior assistant and that's a job he would have taken if not for the Chiefs interest. When Dallas saw KC interested, they fired Ryan and pounced on Kiffin minutes after.

Truly a point worth arging...



















:spock:

Yep, Walsh originally perfected the WCO in Cincinatti.

He took it with him to STANFORD, where he continued to tweak it. He was at Stanford for 2 years before going to the 49ers.

Uhhh....

As far as I'm concerned, Dallas did us a favor. I've never been a fan of the Cover 2, even more now in an era where athletic tight ends can just destroy a Cover 2 defense. And that's not even mentioning that we just absolutely do not have the personnel to run a base Cover 2 on this team at this time.

Trolling? **** no. Just calling out your stupid dumbassery.

Go **** yourself, Dumbass.

How the **** does Gary Gibbs keep hanging around? Does he have nude pics of Clark or something? 3rd KC Head Coach that he's survived.

I'm with you. The only thing I'd like to see is Eric Berry moving away from the LOS into his natural place as a ballhawk.

Here's how I'm looking at this:

1) I'm not excited by the defensive staff hirings, either. I was initially against the idea of switching to a 4-3, but it grew on me more and more provided we could run 4-3 under stuff. Any way to set our pass rushers loose and create some havoc at the line of scrimmage. Now that we're going to stay in the 3-4 but apparently switch to some 1-gap, that's what I wanted all along. It just isn't a very sexy name that's coming in to coordinate it all. So yeah, it's not good. However...

2) When one considers what people have been saying throughout this entire season of misery, that the key to building any successful team that can win and win consistently is the elite QB, elite GM, and elite HC, that puts some context in the situation. We're GETTING an elite QB. We're GETTING an elite GM. Really the biggest question mark in this process is going to be Andy Reid and if he can learn from his mistakes in Philly. We GOT the foundation for a better team in Kansas City. It's the kind of foundation that has the potential to turn us into a team that's in the playoffs every year and challenges for a Super Bowl every so often. Mediocre defensive coordinator be damned.

3) This defense already has some pretty ****ing good playmakers. And all of them are under contract for at least two years. It's not like we need this elite defensive coordinator to mask the problems of talent. Sure, it can never hurt, but if we get the QB right and there's elite talent coming to this team through the draft like we expect is possibly under Dorsey, there's no reason why Sutton can't find a way to give us an aggressive defense that creates turnovers and gets sacks. And that's all we need. That's all you need period to win a Super Bowl these days. You need a defense, but it doesn't have to be this awesome force of rape. And we can have that.

I don't mean to tell people to settle for mediocrity. Just give it a chance. We're hardly screwed from the beginning with this coaching staff like we were with Haley and Romeo.

Oh, and if you're going to reply to this with "U DONT NO WERE GETTING A QB! U DONT NO WERE GETTING DORSEY! IT'S NOT CONFIRMED YET!" then you may as well save the typing effort and go **** your sister right now.

What do you think is so horrible about it?

wut??

Can't make acceptions to the rules of spelling and grammar.

My sister is out of state, can I borrow yours? :evil:

Ironic post is ironic.

I'll stand by my posting history here, sport. I'm fairly confident that I don't look stupid suggesting anything.

Are there people that disagree? Yup - that's why we're here. But unlike you, I'm capable of putting up a substantive argument in favor of a position even in the face of disagreement.

You're still an idiot.

ROFLROFL

Good rationalization Romeo

I'm hoping we don't go Tampa 2 again.

Looks like a solid staff, I'm willing to give it a chance. I don't think Andy will stay with something that isn't working, which may be his best quality.

And here it comes. Now I'm a homer LMAO

Just saying. We had quite an impressive string of luck with the Reid and Dorsey hires. We have the #1 pick. And contrary to what the whiners say, I LOVE the offensive staff Reid has assembled. It's something I could only have imagined in my dreams.

Everything has been a home run thus far this offseason until the defensive coordinator. Can't win them all, but that's no reason to think this defense will now be a piece of shit or even a liability.

That won't be happening with Sutton as DC.

from crappy ass Mo Carthon to Eric Bieniemy

holy ****ing massive upgrade. Charles is going to beast

This. First, this defense has played with a lead and an offense that sustains drives like what, 3 times in the past two years?

If people are expecting us to become the defense of Greg Robinson because of Sutton at DC, they are mistaken.

I hope everyone is correct in their assumption that Sutton means sticking with the 3-4 in a one gap style.

It will save literal years in development, what a waste of time that would've been.

It will actually speed development of our DL.

Its not a sexy name staff but its very solid.

i like the hire of Sutton and the entire defensive staff minus the 400 year old d-line coach

There's quite a bit of talent on the defense too, which wasn't the case during the DV years.

I like Gibbs at LB coach and Thomas has always been a good DB's coach. His work with Flowers and Carr prove that.

Sutton doesn't excite me though. I hope he gets these guys to attack, attack again and then attack some more.

there's like 4 good players on defense if that

Amen, brother. Regardless of what happened last year, I think this D is close to being a damn good 34 unit.

Tamba Hali
Justin Houston
Eric Berry
Brandon Flowers
Derrick Johnson

Not every player has to be a super star. Many will have to be role players. And while we are definitely short in some positions. We have more than 4 players who are worth keeping around. Maybe not even as starters but we have some talent.

no we dont

there are no "average" players or depth on this team. That was Scooters biggest problem

we had REALLY GOOD PLAYERS

then nothing

then REALLY BAD PLAYERS.

There were no solid role players, and if there was one, he was shipped off the team (cough Wallace Gilberry)

Poe, Powe, and Lewis are all worth a roster spot as well.

I'll grudgingly concede that Poe may actually qualify.

Unlike that worthless tub, Tyson Jackson, Poe showed flashes of actually be a damn good player. And while we joke about it, DTs do often take a hell of a long time to develop.

Put Poe in a 1-gap and I think he really can be a dangerous player. I think he'd be better in a 4-3...but that ship has sailed.

Ultimately I see no reason he couldn't be as good as Abreyo Franklin as soon as next season. That qualifies him for the list, IMO.

I thought with a new coaching staff and new system we would rid ourselves of your useless drivel, but I guess I was wrong.

Powe and Lewis

LOL

Powe is an Inc. and Lewis is worth a backup safety role and little else.

It doesn't make him good, it makes him passable.

my drivel ends when Andy Reid cuts all the shitty players that this place defends and gives a free pass to

so very soon

And if Reid keeps some of said shitty players around?

He's not

He is bringing his "No Turd Left Behind" program to KC and he will rid us of all the Scooter shitters that have plagued this team the last 4 years. Our good talent prior to the Scooter era will be vindicated and their last remaining prime years wont be wasted under Andy. I have confidence in Reid

Your dreams must suck then. I could never imagine dreaming about Reid and Childress..yuck

The only homerun IMHO is Dorsey if he is hired, other than that this is all just meh..

I hope he's better than that because Franklin didn't do shit for SD last year, or the Saints before that.

Again, players like Powe and Lewis will be here next year because they are DEPTH. You can't overhaul a team in one offseason with stud depth players.

Considering what teams like the 2-12 Colts had before last season, we're in very good shape. It's not going to take long to either see those mediocre guys flourish as backups or see them replaced with better personnel.

In the meantime, it's stupid to say "the defense has four good players and nobody."

Solid argument now, but I will refrain until FA, the draft and who is re-signed.

that will tell the bigger picture of the roster turnover

Hit me with some details knowledgeable one.

Is it because the upfield, agressive posture of a one gap has less nuance and is easier to pick up?

Don't be stupid. They'll be around.

Solid depth, just as others have said.