DERP DERP HE WAS PISSING ON MY LAWN, MY PROPERTY DOG GONE IT HE DESERVES TO DIE!! DERP DERP

sit in a canoe/kayak/innertube for a few hours in the hot sun slamming beers, you don't have any idea how drunk you're getting.
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the bonus was my hand got some boob action whilst hoisting her out of the water into the raft.

Totally believable though.

yep. and this party was young. no way they were of age. They had all the makings of a bad day; Jack and Cokes, Jello Shots, beer bong.
nice little 100 degree day; 5 hour float.

good god.

should have turned her over and picked her up like a 6-pack.
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That's probably not the only action she got if she was that drunk.

I thought about it. I was scared though man. I pulled her out, and she was limp. I put her into the raft on shore, sat her up. she had a pulse. fairly shallow breathing. Finally got her to open her eyes, and she was talking (albeit slurring/barely audible).


but my hand got some. So I figured we were square

LMAO Ground rule double.

I don't doubt it for one second. We go to Havasu every year. I've seen plenty of that shit. Most of them topless.

Yup. As has already been noted, it's the same as the "only a couple" answer on DUI checkpoints. As a public service - the answer is never "only a couple". That's exactly the answer the officer is looking for. The answer is always 'none'. I don't care if you throw up on the guy first, the answer is still none.

Absolutely. And the author knew it.

"Dart and about 4 dozen of his extended family" sounds a lot better than "50 !@#$ing people" because anyone that's ever been on a float knows how those work out.

Based on what we have here, I just don't see how you can convict this guy of 2nd degree murder.

"Quick! Someone help me pull her into the raft"!!


onlookers "...why is that guy pulling her out with her knees around his shoulders"?

Maybe you looked like you had to pee and he didn't want you to get any ideas.

Yep, he'll get off with something much less than second.

No, he’s just an old asshole.
I worked with his grandson and even he agreed the old **** is an asshole. When I told him my story he said, “Yup, he’ll do that.”

That's not where they filmed Deliverance is it?
You can't just be floating down rivers in Missouri and expect not to be shot at sometimes, or, requested to squeal like a pig on occasion.

when my old man was a ranger at a park on the Meramac, some lady drove her car right down a boat ramp, committing suicide. he got there and went in the water to try to get her out...reached into the car window and grabbed her by the hair and it came off in his hand. she was wearing a wig. he was already pretty tense, but that freaked him out.
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Wow. **** that.

I hope this guy gets life in prison. He's an asshole.

I think that's actually better though. The whole scalp would have been kinda gross.

That was the first thing I thought too.

This is 2nd degree murder in NC

Have you ever been down one of these rivers? You can't run and hide anywhere. If you have to go to the bathroom, you pull the canoe or raft onto the side of the river on a sand/gravel bank, find some trees to go behind and do your business.

Some of these responses make it seem like some of you think these rivers flow down the middle of a street with port-a-potties on every corner and this guy just got out and peed in his lawn.

Yes, I have. And there's plenty of opportunity to run for cover.

The property owner may have been overzealous, but my money says this big group got cocky with the rocks, their drunken leader, egged on, started approaching and got popped.

Lesson is, don't get drunk and stupid... you usually never know who you're messing with.

If they are throwing rocks, I assumed they were on the side of the river still where the rocks collect. Where would anyone go hide?

Depends on where the guy was. If I was standing behind a tree next to the river while taking a pee and some crazy asshole starts screaming at me, I would probably tell him to **** off too.

Doesn't make it not murder if he killed me, IMO.

Down river, up river, across the river, wherever.

So your plan for them was to outrun the bullets?

They were almost certainly drunker than cootie brown, in large numbers and getting rowdier by the minute... they started this, i'd bet on it.

"WE'LL PISS WHERE WE WANT YA OLD MOTHER****ER"

Just a difference in opinion, but I see it completely the other way. The guy goes to pee, this old dude comes running out yelling to get off his property and fires off a couple bullets - killing the guy, his friends panic and start chucking rocks to get the guy to back off.

The bullets may have been intended as warning shots but it doesn't matter when one of them kills someone.

This isn't even a case where he was trying to stop a thief who was running off with his car or something, so "defending my property" is right out.

NO one is chucking ****ing rocks at a guy shooting real bullets at them...

The rocks came first, bet on it.

It would be murder in Iowa too. If you are outside your home or place of employment around here, then you have a duty to retreat when it is a reasonable possibility. The only question that would be asked in court is "could he have run away?".

And you're making cracks about outrunning bullets? :facepalm:

Certainly more plausible than pushing the canoe back into the river and floating down stream to get away while the guy is shooting at you or even abandoning the canoe and running on foot in their water shoes.

I suppose it will come as a surprise to absolutely no one that this would also be considered second degree murder here in Maryland.

Except, of course, that the only place in Maryland where you find both guns and water is downtown Baltimore, and if you start taking fire there, you have plenty of rusty dumpsters and discarded syringes to hide behind.

No, not more plausible. Not even plausible at all.

Also, in downtown Baltimore there's no element of surprise since you're expecting to come under fire.

For sure.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that rocks were thrown first. Why? Because if rocks were thrown second you're saying a guy who unprovoked is willing to shoot someone....but magically when people start throwing rocks at him decides to STOP shooting. Reason would say if he's willing to shoot you before you throw rocks he's going to keep shooting at you when you start. No way could a small group drive him off before he fires off a bunch more rounds.

Now that could have happened....but it's a hell of a lot less likely than having a bunch of drunks start throwing rocks first.

Still it was stupid for all involved and the outcome will affect all for the rest of their lives.

Here is my dramatized theory about what happened, starring:

Nick Nolte as the shooter.
Ed Norton as the guy who got shot.
Giovanni Ribisi, John Goodman, and Robert Blake as fellow urinators.
The casts of Roseanne, My Name Is Earl, and Always Sunny as the extended family.

Ribisi needs to urinate. In drunken unison, Goodman, Blake, and the extended family all decide to urinate.

They pull up to the bank and get out.

Nolte appears with a gun and tells them to get out.

Blake mouths off. Goodman mouths off. Nolte mouths off.

Norton pulls down his shorts to urinate.

Nolte mouths off. Goodman mouths off.

Blake throws a rock.

Nolte shoots Norton in the face.

I guess that's why they have juries.

The flaw with this theory is that Nolte would have shot him in the dick not the face. Unless you're suggesting that Norton is a dickhead?:hmmm:

Intertubes, they have holes in the middle to pee through.

I've come to despise what a lot of these float trips have become. Drunk ****s everywhere, trash left all over the place, and people walking right into peoples yards to take last nights beer and BBQ shit. Boats get unhooked from personal docks, coolers get looted, and idiots basically do whatever the hell they want because it's tough to enforce laws on these stretches of rivers. I've been on a bunch of them and had my share of fun, but a lot of them are no longer any place for kids. The few, have ruined them for the rest.

I'd say it's safe to assume the drunk ****s threw the rocks first or there would be more than one dead, but unless they had him cornered with no way to retreat I'd guess crazy man down by the river is probably going to do some time. Hopefully the rest of head rock chucker's group learned something.

LMAO LMAO LMAO I just spent 5 minutes on the floor busting a gut at the thought of people running to go pick up rocks while being shot at. Oh man, it hurts LMAO

When shots get fired and you aren't armed it's get the hell out of Dodge anytime anyplace anywhere.

Yea this is my biggest problem with the story and what immediately came to mind.

I am not going to be convinced he shot a guy in the face and the response was to pick up rocks. They would have been hauling ass or deserved what they got for being too ****ing dumb to survive anyway.

WTF is wrong with pissing in the river?

WTF? Find a swimming pool, you heathen.

The biggest issue is that the solution to the guys problem didn't require using a gun. All he had to do was breed a few batches of Piranhas and release them into the river. Boom...no more drunken float trips!

Ban float trips and high capacity rafts /obligatory

Main question is, why did he just not pee in the water?

Your close, however ,despite my being unfamiliar with the layout, just get some dogs. Nobody's going to shore when 3 or more mean assed dogs are barking aggressively. He never would have had to use the gun if he had dogs.

(Slapping own forehead.) Obvious solution. I never thought about that.

so you live along this lovely river spot, and assholes come along to party/****/piss on your property
get motion sensors that start playing the theme to Deliverance

I do not think the sand bars are private property.

Meh just rig a system to dump a few pounds of baby ruths in the river whenever anyone floats bye.

I love how the media try to paint the case.

I say this one ends with a hung jury.

from "A Summary or Missouri Water Laws"

Page 138 or PDF Page 152
Navigability

Of all instream water uses, navigation is the only one provided for and protected by the U.S. Constitution (the Commerce Clause). 17 All navigable
rivers are subject to public use for navigation. 18 The legal term for this is “navigational servitude.” Determination of navigability may be made several ways. 19 If a stream is navigable under federal determination, then the national government or the state government holds title to the streambed.

Page 142 or PDF Page 156
Boating and Recreation

The Missouri case of Elder v. Delcour, 269 S.W.2d 17 (1954) recognizes the public right of recreational navigation in all watercourses that have flow sufficient to float a recreational boat. 24 “Congress mandated that Missouri, ”wrote the court," like many Midwestern states created from federal territories, 25 must recognize free navigability by the public of the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers, their tributaries, and portages between them.” This provision was derived from the Northwest Ordinance of 1787, art. IV, 1 Stat. 52 (1789)

I voted Murder.
The guy has a right to be pissed about boaters (Drunks) pissing on his property. Bringing a gun down to confront them wasn't the smartest thing.
Throwing rocks at a guy holding a gun wasn't smart. A round or two in a safe direction probably would of ended the rock throwing. IF it didn't and they continued to throw rocks. CALL the Police. IF the drunks follow you and continue to throw rocks. Dig more graves.

He killed that guy. Instead of a pistol invest in a JYD.

:thumb:

Also when I think of Steelville MO I think of Archie Kehr Kelsos. He sold and fought that strain for 60+ years.

I'm serious. I'd assume this guy had lived at the same spot with the same bs for years.
A mean ass Cujo would have fixed his problem.

I cruised around lake arrowhead a while back and the amount of Cujo lookin hounds was astonishing.
I didn't think they had them type hounds to be hospitable.

They don't make screaming-mad-Deliverance-rednecks-with-shotguns for hospitality either.

Sounds like a float trip got a little too beer-brave with a guy who was a little less than stable...

I’m with you.
This is exactly why you approach a farm house around here slowly and in the least aggressive manner possible. Because it’s guaranteed that there will be a pack of mostly feral dogs hanging around that will furiously guard their gravy train.
Jim and Resin Bowie were said to sleep with a pack of Catahoula’s at the foot of their bed. There’s a reason for that.

I prefer pitbulls and anitolians. But yeah one that's about half wolf suits me and will keep the looky loos on the road.
The other part of the problem is that city people have zero ****in clue how to operate in the country.
Mother****ers move out here and think they got it made.
What they got is more money and pride than logic.

Years ago (like 20 or so), when I was much more into the partying aspect of floating, we were snorkeling around a hole, looking for big fish. We were fishing too. We found probably 15-20 Milwaukees Best beers that someone had dumped when their canoe tipped. We picked them up and threw them in our trash bag. Several hours later, some college aged gals came by all hammered and out of beer. They asked us if we had any extra. Of course, being the gentlemen we were, we told them "you bet, show us your tits". They did, and we promptly handed over the warm MB that we had found earlier that day. Ahhh, the good old days.

Went to high school with the lawyer. Carry on.