The assumption by some that bowe is held back by his qb.

Bowe had 1000 yard seasons with Tyler Thigpen, Damon Huard, Matt Cassel, Tyler Palko, and Kyle Orton. He was Josh Gordon before Josh Gordon.

I still don't understand what your point is. No one is blaming Alex Smith, but for some reason you act like that's what everyone is doing.

:toast:

Well. What I am saying. Bowe has severely under performed. It is extremely frustrating for me as a fan for someone who does not get the most out of his abilities.

:facepalm:

Not offended. Cheers!

Bowe definitely needs to show up this week, because he's putting up about 50% of the stats he's getting paid for.

Dwayne needs to worry a bit more about making the routine plays

:p

But seriously. Bowe needs to pony up a few awesome catches and he knows it... obviously. He's holding Alex Smith back with his mediocre play.

I'm not trolling. When Bowe is in the lineup he's not contributing enough. He's paid like the "go to" guy on WR roster. He doesn't play to match his salary.

Really? Maybe you're the idiot if you can't see that fact. Quit being a homer. Now go ahead and tell me his play is okay with you. Go ahead and do it.

Btw, 105 targets and 57 receptions. 5th in targets and 38th in receptions.


Voice of Reason

So Bowe is cocky, me-first mother****er? Jesus there is a lot of butthurt for a guy that says shit like the above statement.

No shit. It bears repeating. **** Pioli!

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1129...27_ms_1440.jpg

Marqise can do this... #Draft2014

I've desperately clung to my hopes for Bowe for too long, and this season has finally broken me.

I still think he has the physical talent to be very good. He just doesn't seem to have the internal part, be it brains, desire, or whatever.

I'd love for him to be prominent this post season. I just don't expect it to actually happen.

:thumb:

I called you an idiot because you said Trade him. You cannot ****ing trade him now, idiot.

You expected him to catch 120 passes this season?

How dumb can you be? :shake:

I don't believe people are setting a standard for stats. My beef is that Bowe has the physical ability to absolutely OWN a lot of CB's in this league. He played hard and got the fat contract basically stating that's what he's getting paid to do. But, he's not... His wallet is fat, and he doesn't perform up to the level that many of us know he has the ability to. He's eating cap space that doesn't allow the Chiefs to remedy the problem through free agency. So he HAS to be the player his salary says he is. Not just when the season is on the line. But, every single snap of every single game. If Bowe wants an example of living up to your pay, then look no further than Jamaal Charles. IMO.... Bowe and Charles should swap paychecks, because Jamaal is getting ripped

This is Dwayne Bowe's 7th season in the NFL.

Can anyone think of memorable/big time catches or games he's had during his career thus far?

I can think of two games… 2007 when the Chiefs upset San Diego and Bowe had his coming out party (8 catches 160+ yards receiving), and in 2011 against the Colts when he had that sick catch (although in that same game he also had a confounding dropped pass).

That's it.

He even made the illustrious Tyler Palko look bad.

This is only the 2nd winning season Bowe has seen. How many could there possibly be?

I remember him catching 15 TDs from ****ing Matt Cassel.

The big drop he had was a different game than the juggling catch. Both in Indy.

Excuses over...trade or cut him

Yep.

Also, from this season alone, off the top of my head, he scored the go-ahead TD against Dallas for the lead we never relinquished and hauled in a tough pass for what should have been the game-winner against San Diego @ KC.

:facepalm:

Bowe has not looked good this year. That doesn't change the fact that he's still the best WR on our team. If the Colts commit to taking Charles away in the passing game, then we need Bowe to have this sort of confidence/want-to attitude and step up.

He's under-performed on the year. He's also on the whole over-performed for his career with shitty teams and QB's.

Smith has been much better about this in the second half of the season, but he never tried to develop a rapport with Bowe because he wasn't wide open by a couple of yards in the first half of the year. There still isn't any chemistry there, and that just plain sucks.

Todd Haley as WR coach would be the perfect remedy to save Bowe's career and blowtorch a fire under his lazy ass.

It will never happen, but that would the solution IMO.

Um, Bowe caught 86 the year before Haley.

I don't Smith think will ever develop a rapport with Bowe. Smith isn't comfortable trusting his receivers to make the play, and Bowe isn't a receiver that frequently gets the degree of open that Smith is looking for.

Yeah, you could be right about this.

If so, that would be pretty awful.

Tony Gonzalez presence helped with that.

I like Bowe, but i can remember more BIG DROPS in kinda big games than i can remember big catches. I can't forget the 4th quarter drop at Oakland in 2010 that ices the game if he makes it. He didn't. Chiefs lose....SHOW me Bowe, just dont talk about it. Do it!

Totally agree with this. Bowe is a jump ball guy. Smith needs WR like we had during the Vermeil years.

He hasn't earned Smith's trust so it is a moot point now. Chin music to stroke his own ego.

So did Snoop Minnis.

Man the idiots are out.

Same here, Bowe probably isn't in the teams long term plans because of it... but as Pablo mentions, the Colts WILL commit to stopping JC and we WILL need some plays from Bowe, no doubt about it.

Smith is just going to have use what he's got for right now, comfort level or not... he'll still spread the ball to 6-8 guys like he's done all year, but Bowe needs a few big timer targets and grabs.

One could argue Smith doesn't trust Bowe to go make a play as he has a tendency to cut routes short etc and not fight for the ball.

Except it's not just a Bowe thing. It's what Smith needs from any receiver. He's needs guys to be very open to pull the trigger. imo

I think there is a huge misconception on CP that QB's around the league throw to covered WR all the time and it works out well.

Alex Smith requires a different level of "open" than a lot of QBs do. That's not even really debatable. You only have to watch the games to see it.

It has nothing to do with the DEGREE of open. I thought Alex Smith proved that in the Philly Game with Avery. You are on to something though with the trust thing. Alex Smith never hesitated throwing to Vernon.
Well, yeah, this is what it is. Ever since the Giants game where Bowe didn't beat his man inside on a route he had to win. Why should he trust Bowe?
Again. Not true. Alex Smith just needs to trust that you are going to be where you are supposed to be.

He has shown that rapport with Hemmingway, McGrath, Avery, and Fasano.

At some point, we need to hold the players accountable outside of the qb.

You can not tell me honestly that you consider Bowe to be disciplined, and a great route runner.

Those are two traits that are required in a Andy Reid based offense.

Its trust. Bowe and Alex need to work on that together, because both are at fault. But, Bowe has a lot of work to do on himself, before anyone can really point the finger at Alex Smith.

That's not necessarily a bad thing.

Andy Reid hates turnovers. Alex Smith is an ultra conservative qb who doesn't force things when he doesn't have to, but has proven time and time again that when he has needed to, he has made plays.

I have no idea why the fact that he doesn't Aaron Rodgers every throw, and chooses to hit the open man, rather than forcing things is a bad thing.

I think he had a propensity to take the high % completion earlier in the season but I have seen him throw the ball to guys with defenders on or near them.

Because when the quality of the opposition goes up, so does the number of 3 and outs because every throw is short of the sticks.

At some point, play not to lose doesn't win anymore.

No arguments here.

I agree.

I believe you are going to see a different chiefs team in 48 hours my friend.

Happy New Year.

GO CHIEFS!

We have to see a different Chiefs team or they'll be headed home for the rest of the playoffs. It's that simple.

A big reason we lost last time was Alex was forcing the ball into (an always covered) Bowe. Bowe's a $50M blocker.

He also needs a WR that will actually fight for the ball when he is covered.

You're surely not suggesting that Dwayne Bowe can't do that when he's only shown it for 6 season before Alex Smith arrived. :facepalm:

Folks bitch that Alex doesn't force it into Bowe enough. Well he tried that last time we played Indy. Even when other guys were open. I think Andy told him to do that on purpose. We had our worst loss of the season because of that.

Alex doesn't trust him and he shouldn't.

Our WR hopes this weekend lie in Avery and Junior.

No, he's pulled the trigger plenty this year on passes to his wide receivers.

However, I can't remember a season where so many guys have dropped so many passes that were put right into their hands.

It hasn't been just Bowe - Avery, McCluster, Charles, etc., they've all had problems just catching the ball. And that's not surprising as these guys reps have always been questionable hands. Why do you think that Avery isn't on the Colts when they would have loved to have had his speed this season? Hands of stone.

While some say Bowe's problems are correctable, they haven't been. He's been the same guy since college - a jump ball, free lance type of receiver that's used his size and strength in the open field. This offense doesn't work that way. It needs timing and precision and hands. As I stated, it's highlighted Bowe's weaknesses when, in previous Chiefs offenses, he was able to play to his strengths and mask those specific weaknesses in his game.

Basically, it's put up or shut up time. He needs to show that he is capable of making the catches when they count.

Right here, right now is the line drawn in the sand for Dwayne Bowe.

Dwayne Bowe wants? What about what the fans would like from Dwayne Bowe? Dedication and discipline. Too much to ask?

He's certainly struggled with it this year. However, I think it's partly due to him being asked to run better routes in conjunction with making sure he gets the ball. He's shown he'll do it downfield in a jumpball scenario, but he's really got his ass kicked by defensive backs this year when he's been asked to be a little more precise on his cuts and timing routes.

I don't think he's a good WR in terms of understanding and applying his craft on the field. However, I think he's a very good WR if it's a "Chuck it downfield and I'll go get it Dawg!" type of situation.

Personally, if he shits the bed against the Colts, the team might need to start looking at getting picks out of a trade to a team like the Lions or so. Stafford's game is very much suited to a receiver like Bowe and he'd do well playing opposite Calvin Johnson.

I just think that $50 million dollars is a steep price to pay for second level fullback. The guy needs to step up his stuff.

I hate it when we permit middle school children the ability to post.

Fair enough.

umm ... what?

just about every time someone brings up a drop or problem with a WR some people blame Smith. Hell ... some people insist that Bowe would be like Megatron if 'he just had a decent quarterback'.

the last 5 years EVERYTHING HAS BEEN ABOUT THE QUARTERBACK ....

Look here, shortbus. Smith is "let down" by Crabtree and explodes into a good player as soon as Kaepernick takes over.

Bowe has 1000 yd seasons with the likes of Thigpen, Huard, Croyle, Cassel and you think that he's "letting down" Alex Smith?

It's quite the opposite.

roasted.

/Tyler Palko

rec drops target

66 Dwayne Bowe WR KC 57 4 103 55.3 % 3.9%


source

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/drops/2013/

reliable no Idea


**** on this site Chad Hall is #5 for no drops,
this is a worthless post
but it does show we need to target Chad more

I will say, that's funny.

Be nice if Bowe actually gets a target in a playoff game. Worthless Casshole didn't even attempt a pass to him last time. Yet stupid ****ers defended Cassel on here for it.

Ahhh, I love this argument.

Crabtree was targeted 92, of 218 passes thrown by Kaepernick.

You get that? Just about 45 percent of his passes went to one guy, meaning that everyone else, was being ignored. He completely ignored Vernon Davis.

Alex Smith spread it around to everyone.

But, in fairness, I don't expect you to really understand. Its not logical to you. Of course, when I tell you that in Alex Smiths last 5 quarters as a 49ers starting qb, he threw 3 tds, in 27 passes to Crabtree.

Don't let those facts get in your way.

And exactly. Lets not hold Bowe accountable. Lets just make it all about the qb.

Just about every Chiefs fan, whether they like Alex Smith or not, can accept two truths.

Dwayne Bowe is not a dedicated route runner, and that Andy Reids system, requires timing, and precision.

That is the biggest problem that people have. Alex Smith is a letter of the law type of guy. He relies on timing, and Receivers to be where they are supposed to be, when they are supposed to be there.

Not, BOWES, strong suit.

All Alex Smiths fault though.

Wouldn't shock me at all if the very first Chiefs play of the game is strictly for Bowe. Think it would be great to get him going early.

We all know that their goal is going to be to stop Charles.

Roasted my ass, **** him, this isn't the old, bullshit QB school of "chuck it out there bauce, i'll jump up and get it cuz all we got is this bullshit scheme".

No, this is now wide receiver finishing school, where route running and timing count more than anything... hit your spots on time and THEN make the catch.

If you or anyone else wanna play backyard ball, sign up for the bush leagues... its time Bowe refined his play... don't even TRY to go there on me with Bowe, I've passionately defended this guy year in and out, I love a player who sticks around and makes himself at home, I WANT this guy to be a Chief for life.

But the fact is, he HAS looked bad as a receiver overall this year... oh he only gets 5 targets a game? well he's been dropping 2-3 of them, i'm only going to homer it up so much for this guy right now.

CATCH WHAT YOU GET... blocking is awesome, we need a Heinz Ward... but you're being paid TOP 5 to HIT YOUR MARKS AND CATCH PASSES, don't gimme no bullshit about the QB, he can get it to you.

that's great...put up or shut up.

OHMYGAWDDDDDD HE SAID IT SO BOWE IS OUR MOST VALUABLE OFFENSIVE PLAYER /Clay

I wish Bowe would just shut his Big Time mouth and actually make some Big Time plays.

That would be nice.

Don't forget.

Check downs to Jamal Charles are a bad idea./ Alex Smith haters.

This year Bowe has been targeted 105 times, 20% of Alex Smith's 508 targets. In 2010, Bowe was targeted 132 times, for 27% of Cassel's 475 targets. A minor discrepancy in target percentage, but a massive discrepancy in output from those targets.

If my stats are correct, then Vernon Davis was targeted 36 times by Smith in his 8 games of 2012, which would be about 16% of his targets. He was targeted 25 times by Kaepernick which would be 11% of his targets. The difference is 11 targets overall, a difference of 1.3 per game.

You put focus on a specific 5 quarters from Alex Smith, and Crabtrees TDs in those quarters. Why do you ignore the other 6 games where Crabtree had none with Smith at QB?

All players should be held accountable on our team. Bowe is not exempt from that. But if Bowe can produce with QBs in the realm of Croyle, Cassel, Huard, Thigpen, why are his numbers at a career low with Alex Smith? Is it because Bowe is all of a sudden a terrible player? Or is it because Alex Smith doesn't like throwing to WRs?

Well, I put a focus on that specific time period because it was showing that Alex Smith and Crabtree had finally started to click.

And, believe it or not, I gave that credit to Crabtree. I have always maintained that Crabtree exploded because Crabtree was growing up as an individual, and was taking the mentoring from Randy Moss seriously.

Randy Moss made Crabtree take his hood off in meetings, start sitting in the front row of meetings.

Crabtree for the first time in his career participated I OTA's, training camp and preseason. He came into camp in the best shape of his career.

Crabtree broke out, because Crabtree is a special player.

Bowe, succeeded with other qbs, because that system wasn't predicated on precision and timing. Bowe has to become a better route runner. That is my premise. Bowe is special enough, strong enough, and good enough that if he wants to beat his man on a slant route, there isn't a corner in the league that can stop him. Its all on him.

Sure, Alex Smith doesn't force feed him the ball. Okay. Well, its on Bowe to give Alex Smith no choice in the matter.

I have heard a lot of people say that Alex Smith wont throw to a covered receiver.


Havent really seen him having a problem throwing to an open one though.


And to your assertion that Alex Smith doesn't like throwing to Receivers.

In 2011, where alex smith took just about every single snap. He targeted crabtree like 40 more times than anyone else.

:shrug:

I don't buy for a second that any offensive system in the NFL is not based on timing and precision. Defenses, and especially players, are way too good to just wing it. The DBowe slant was a staple of Todd Haley's offense, and he frequently dominated on it. Bowe didn't suddenly lose that skill. The difference lies with how open the QBs need receivers to be. Cassel knew he could throw to Bowe on those type of plays and count on Bowe to win. Smith sees Bowe as covered and, for the most part, will avoid those tight throws that Bowe thrived on.

Therein lies the problem so many people have with Smith. It feels like his throwing windows need to be ridiculously wide open. He's supposed to be an accurate QB so he should feel comfortable making more contested throws to Bowe.I know he's a super conservative guy and won't throw into tight coverage, but in not doing so, he's leaving a ton of Bowe's ability under-utilised.

QB's will throw it up to their receivers all the time. Bowe isn't the only receiver who succeeds on those type of plays. Megatron, Dez, Andre Johnson, Marshall, hell you can go with just about any receiver in the league. The NFL isn't such a finesse league that they won't tell their guys, "It's you vs the defensive back. Go up, beat him 1 on 1, and make the grab."

Bowe's dropped 2-3 balls a game? So he has anywhere from 30-50 drops on the year? Your and idiot

That may be true. But, its just that one play against the Giants that just sticks out in my mind. Bowe was in the left slot, it was a version of the rub route where Fasano was basically setting a pick for him, he had one job, to beat his man inside, he didn't, and Alex Smith ended up throwing a pick.

And, no, I am not insinuating that Andy Reids offense is the only offense that is predicated on Precision and timing. But no offenses are as OCD about it, as an offense off of the bill walsh tree.

Yes, Bowe was able to free lance a little more with past qbs.

Alex Smith is not comfortable if a play doesn't go strictly on script. Its a HUGE weakness for him.

But, all of that aside, can you honestly tell me that Dwayne Bowe is a route runner on the level of Welker, Anquan Boldin, or Reggie Wayne?

If you cant, then that is where I am coming from with Bowe.

Bowe is not Calvin Johnson, he is not Josh Gordon. He is not going to blow by you. So he has to use his size, and physicality, and route running to beat corners.

That's all im saying. Not saying he cant. just saying he needs to dedicate himself to it.

He had some hideous drops in that Colts game.

I'm pretty sure Bowe's targets have actually gone up since that game.