Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 10382666)

I gotta offer a couple of counterpoints.

In the past, a top QB wasn't a guarantee. In 2013, it's a guarantee unless Manning completely chokes (which admittedly is possible). The game has fundamentally changed over the last three years as the NFL changes its rules to increase its marketing appeal to non-fans, and it's nothing but a scoring derby now. It's the highest scoring season in NFL history, with the most yards and most passing yards ever recorded. The league is in completely uncharted waters, so history can't inform us of what works and what doesn't work. All we can do is look at this season.

Second, an objective person can't say that Denver has a "spectacular receiving corps". Other than Welker, those same players were no-name journeymen before Manning came on board. Manning makes them look spectacular, but it's all Manning. The Broncos aren't drafting gems in the late rounds where they got people like Julius Thomas and Eric Decker. The truth is that in this era a quarterback like Manning will make everyone around him a pro bowler. It's the way the game works now.

Congrats on your Super Bowl win, I guess.

Originally Posted by razorwire77 (Post 10382730)

Pretty sure Demaryius Thomas caught 10 balls for 297 yards over a two game span in the playoffs with Tim ****ing Tebow throwing him the ball.

Originally Posted by tooge (Post 10382460)

Yeah, I'm sure alot of the talk like this thread is purely sour grapes. Having said that, I do get the premise of the the thread. In 1989 for example, I hated Denver, I hated Elway, and it made my day as much if the donks lost as if the chiefs won. I think that was because Elway was a bronco through and through. They drafted him (sort of), and he was the franchise. And of course, as history would show, he went on to define them.

This donk team is different. Manning made all his hooplah as a colt. I don't hate the colts. I don't like them, but its different. They haven't been in our division. So, while I still hate the donks, Manning doesn't define them, so my hate with him at the helm is less. Make sense? Probably not, but I feel sort of the same way.

In '97 and '98, it was gut wrenching to watch Elway's broncos hoist the trophy. Now, it's not the broncos, its Manning. It's just not the same.

Originally Posted by GordonGekko (Post 10382889)

Lol, Manning hasn't hoisted anything yet. He still has to play the most dangerous team in the NFL right now, a team with a defense that could put his lights out if you know what I mean.

The only thing the Manning led Broncos have done is position themselves one game from the championship, that is all. If they lose it will be hilarious.

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 10382906)

What will be funny about it?

I always find it interesting how someone who's a fan of teams like the Chiefs, Royals, Cubs, etc. can laugh at a team who loses in a game their team hasn't reached in decades.

Originally Posted by Jimmya (Post 10382908)

First you guys talk smack that Manning won't get there.....now you're talking that he won't win. What's next?

Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 10382019)

I love how so many people are throwing out how idiotic I / others are on these threads, like the love to bully people and when they are typing stuff in there computer they are really tough guys, but in person.... well then they won't say a peep. Cyber bullies can F### themselves, if you want to say it in person, I'm available.


My point of this entire thread was I don't want the Broncos to win no matter what, but if the options were a home grown talent or a good system quarterback

VS.

luring one of the top 5 all time quarterbacks of all time to there team to win a super bowl ( like the Miami heat) Then it doesn't bother me as much.

It still bothers me no matter what, just less because the only way and I mean the only way they do it is by getting him.

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 10383019)

Christ, not the WR argument again. :facepalm:


Peyton puts the ball in the perfect spot almost every time. Take him out and their production drops by 30-40%.

Originally Posted by Rain Man (Post 10382756)

Julius Thomas' stats:

JThomas' one year before Manning arrived:

1 receptions for 5 yards

JThomas' two years after Manning arrived:

0 receptions for 0 yards (Appeared in only four games)
65 receptions for 788 yards

Eric Decker's stats:

Decker's two years before Manning arrived:

6 receptions for 106 yards
44 receptions for 612 yards

Decker's two years after Manning arrived:

85 receptions for 1,064 yards
87 receptions for 1,288 yards


Seriously, teams should not draft anybody but quarterbacks any more. Draft QBs with your top three picks every year until you find one that works. At that point you can plug in 3rd round receivers and 7th round tight ends all day and they'll be pro bowlers.

And I should note that I'm not trashing the Broncos with this. This is true throughout the league. If you get Aaron Rodgers, every receiver on his team becomes a star. Tom Brady's team made it to the AFC Championship using a high school contingent of receivers. A good quarterback converts everyone on the team into a pro bowler in the modern system.

Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 10379404)

I know it will sound like sour grapes, etc etc etc etc etc.

BUTTTTT

The way I look at it is like this, the broncos did what we did when we lured Montana here with the exception that he is still playing at the peak of his game vs. Montana on the downslide of his.

With that being said, its one thing to have a quarterback you drafted and groomed or a quarterback from another team that you built a great team around and you went to a super bowl when it was a team win.

I guess the reason I am not as bent as I thought I would be is because they paid him the most to come there but knowing that if he wasn't there the team is garbage, pretty much a 500 team at best. So you pay a guy and get him there at the end of his career, the TEAM isn't much, they just got lucky to get him.

Like someone winning the lottery and having more money than another guy who had a much better job, doesn't mean the guy who won the lottery is better, just lucky.

Denver as a team doesn't deserve the super bowl nor have they done anything to deserve it.

Manning deserves it by the way he played this year ( and his receivers) but the rest of the team was average at very best.

Put manning on 25 teams this year and he goes to the superbowl with them.

When people from Denver will brag on and on, its not Denver that got them there is was manning 1 , manning 2, and manning 3

Congrats Peyton and recievers, you guys deserved it.

The rest of the team.... Congrats you won the lottery.

Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 10383527)

WTH are you talking about? They don't deserve it??!! Yes they do! Remember, they got Manning when many were trying to get him. Why? Because their front office had what it took to make him believe he had a chance to get them to where they ll are right now. And he was right! Is he their best player. IDK, he's their best QB, and he's a goddamn good one at that; perhaps the best of all time. But he doesn't play defense so all he can do for them is inspire them (and he does). He's not a RB, but he inspires one to achieve like a son-of-a-bitch (and he does). So Manning is a huge part of their motor, but the other parts have to work too - and they do.

So they deserve it, they very much deserve it. Don't hate on them for succeeding...

Originally Posted by jd1020 (Post 10382906)

What will be funny about it?

I always find it interesting how someone who's a fan of teams like the Chiefs, Royals, Cubs, etc. can laugh at a team who loses in a game their team hasn't reached in decades.

Originally Posted by manchambo (Post 10383349)

Why then did neither manning nor anyone else throw for as many yards or touchdowns as he did this year? Why is it so obvious that Denver's receivers are better than the patriots'?

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 10383857)

Sooooo, you are saying the receivers will produce like they did this year with Oswillier at QB?

Holy shit, you guys are spoiled. LMAO


I was being generous by saying Denver would get around 36-3800 yards passing without Manning.

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 10383849)

That's your problem if you justify humor like that... If I got my ass kicked by this dude for years, then I see him finally get his ass kicked, Im gonna laugh at his ass. Doesnt matter one bit if he can kick my ass.

Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 10384070)

( by the way comparing Montana when we got him to Manning now is a joke, Montana was good but was at the very tail end of his career, Manning is playing better now then ever. Give us Montana in his very best year and we win the superbowl as well. )

Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 10384070)

Look this thread is not worth it being this long, and I guess I'm not saying it right.

If Denver wins, congrats, if they loose, then I'm obviously happy as a Chiefs fan.

My point is that if they had won with a home grown talent or someone they had developed for a while I would be devastated ae. Elway

If they win with manning it just doesn't bother me as much because I know that it was mainly him. Not the rest of the team. And he is a short term win it now

Again, to all you Denver fans, if you win congrats...

Please let this thread end...

( by the way comparing Montana when we got him to Manning now is a joke, Montana was good but was at the very tail end of his career, Manning is playing better now then ever. Give us Montana in his very best year and we win the superbowl as well. )

Originally Posted by synthesis2 (Post 10384142)

mach,

Put him on the chiefs this year, we are in the same place... period...


since you like throwing out insults, over and over and over... . fu#k off di#k head...

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 10383857)

Sooooo, you are saying the receivers will produce like they did this year with Oswillier at QB?

Holy shit, you guys are spoiled. LMAO


I was being generous by saying Denver would get around 36-3800 yards passing without Manning.

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 10384172)

In the year prior to Manning I believe they did get 36 yards.

Originally Posted by notorious (Post 10384178)

Tebow was on fire.

Originally Posted by Clyde Frog (Post 10384191)

****. Denver. In. The. Ass. With. A. Flaming. AIDS. Fireplace. Poker.

The fact that some people on here are trying to rationalize a Denver Super Bowl win as a good thing shows just how brow beaten we as a fan-base have become.

**** them as a organization and **** their fans. I wish nothing but let downs and failure on them forever and will never find solace in them winning anything.

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco (Post 10384197)

Mom?

Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 10383527)

WTH are you talking about? They don't deserve it??!! Yes they do! Remember, they got Manning when many were trying to get him. Why? Because their front office had what it took to make him believe he had a chance to get them to where they all are right now. And he was right! Is he their best player? IDK, he's their best QB, and he's a goddamn good one at that; perhaps the best of all time. But he doesn't play defense so all he can do for them is inspire them (and he does). He's not a RB, but he inspires one to achieve like a son-of-a-bitch (and he does). So Manning is a huge part of their motor, but the other parts have to work too - and they do.

So they deserve it, they very much deserve it. Don't hate on them for succeeding...

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 10384100)

No, give Montana some real WRs like the caliber of Thomas & Thomas,Welker and Decker then Joe goes undefeated:thumb:

Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 10384395)

I'd say that Manning has created a lasting effect on Thomas/Decker/Thomas. I think Welker was already Welker and Moreno just needed to get his head straight. We also have a nice #2 RB in Ball, tough runner with body control that flashes excellent vision.

Originally Posted by listopencil (Post 10384394)

Manning really does make the whole team better. On offense it is pretty obvious. He makes receivers better on game day, in practice, in training camp, whenever he is around them. Our O-Line looks better pass protecting because he's so smart with the football. The threat of his passing game, and his unselfish playcalling, makes our running game better. So our backs are more productive and our O-line run blocks better. He puts together more long drives, and more productive long drives, than any Bronco QB has in quite a while. He can also work the field quickly for a score. The long drives gives our D rest, the quick scores pump them up. I guess if you're a Punter or a Field Goal kicker then you might have reason to complain about Manning. But he also helps us substantially with field position and that helps our Special Teams group. You know the whole coaching staff loves him because he's the unquestioned leader of the team. You want to be good enough to play with him? First you have to attempt to work as hard as he does. That comes across to everyone in the organization. He has elevated the franchise.

Originally Posted by Kman34 (Post 10384535)

Blah, Blah, Blah, If Manning retires their numbers will drop like a rock. Nobody is going to throw for 50Tds on that roster

Originally Posted by Clyde Frog (Post 10384191)

****. Denver. In. The. Ass. With. A. Flaming. AIDS. Fireplace. Poker.

The fact that some people on here are trying to rationalize a Denver Super Bowl win as a good thing shows just how brow beaten we as a fan-base have become.

**** them as a organization and **** their fans. I wish nothing but let downs and failure on them forever and will never find solace in them winning anything.

Originally Posted by Clyde Frog (Post 10384191)

****. Denver. In. The. Ass. With. A. Flaming. AIDS. Fireplace. Poker.

The fact that some people on here are trying to rationalize a Denver Super Bowl win as a good thing shows just how brow beaten we as a fan-base have become.

**** them as a organization and **** their fans. I wish nothing but let downs and failure on them forever and will never find solace in them winning anything.

Originally Posted by Jimmya (Post 10384653)

Bottom line is that Manning is a badass and it's showing.

Originally Posted by GordonGekko (Post 10384634)

So I take it you are the type of fan that wishes for an opportunistic plane crash?

Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 10384652)

Your very angry, very young, or both. If you're a Chiefs fan just pray, but don't hate on a club that's better than yours in most relevant success measurements.

Take it from me young man, don't get too invested on our Chiefs club, it's not good for your mind, body, or soul.

Originally Posted by Clyde Frog (Post 10386138)

Not angry, not young. Been a Chiefs fan since I understood Football. I hate the Broncos because thats what Im supposed to do. Why would I cheer for or ever be happy for a team who stands in the way of the team I cheer for making the playoffs or winning the super bowl?

I was really invested when I was young and cried when the Chiefs lost to the Colts in '95. Didn't give a shit when they got the crap kicked out of them by the Ravens in '10. I got mildly riled up when they lost to the Colts this year but instead of letting it ruin my day I made friendly with the Colts fans at the bar I was watching at and had a good day. I been through the gamut of emotions following this team through the years and have found a place of relative zen when it comes to the Chiefs but Ill be damned to hell before I ever cheer for or am happy for The Broncos.

Originally Posted by Kaylore (Post 10387157)

I don't hate Chiefs players. Probably Dante Hall is the closest I've come to really hating a Chief player. I liked Will Roaf, Tony G and even Trent Green. I appreciate really good players. In fact having Manning again has made me hate really good QB's a lot less than I used to. It's so hard to be one of the best at the QB position that you appreciate the others because you can be objective and be grateful you got to see them play.

Many Chief fans have a lot of bitterness and resentment that has removed most of the the objective joy most people get from watching sports. My Chief fan friends are good people, but they can be pretty jealous and small about other teams' successes. For this reason alone I wouldn't mind if the Chiefs finally fielded a team that won a playoff game or two in the posteason. I would hope it would take the asshole out of most of you. It would also be good for the division and the NFL if the Chiefs were good. Many Bronco fans like seeing your ineptitude, though.