I would have given Schwartz the contract he got from the Giants. That shit is nothing.

Fair enough... I didn't pay that much attention to Schwartz and didn't notice him much (which is probably pretty good indication that you are right). Nor am I all that versed in contract stuff and what is appropriate for what players.

What I do know, is that it is impossible that everyone will agree, regardless of the board, team or player. If we'd have signed these guys that left, and then had less money to make other moves, the boards would be filled with a million people stating that we paid to much and could have found suitable talent to fill in for the exiting starters elsewhere.

$5 million a year equates to the fourth pick in the first round of the Draft.

If the Chiefs select a guard with the #23 pick in the 2014 NFL Draft, they will effectively be paying that guy $2 million per year - which would equate to a veritable bargain versus the $4 to $5 million per year that they would have paid to keep Schwartz (who is on his fourth team in four years) or Asamoah (who never progressed beyond his rookie year) on the team.

Theoretically, the Chiefs would be getting what would amount to one of if not the best guards in the entire draft at that spot, getting a guaranteed four years out of the player at a position that is more "plug and play" than other spots on the team. This equates to a huge savings as it relates to potential performance for the position.

Personally, with the structured salary cap, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with the Chiefs selecting the best guard in the draft this coming May. It's a position of high need (as many are to point out, are you completely sold on the idea of either Watkins, Johnson or Linkenbach anchoring that spot on a team who just needed a few extra pieces in order to advance in the playoffs this past season?) with relatively low risk.

Xavier S'ua-Filo is generally regarded as the top guard prospect in this draft and by all accounts, seems to be considered available with the #23 pick. If the Chiefs select him, they've locked up a guy who's got All-Pro level potential at his position for four seasons on the cheap. Considering that this the guard position is probably the single biggest question mark on this team, I don't see how anyone would have a problem with them using their first round pick on such a player.

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And if that OG at #23 sucks.....his entire contract is guaranteed.

It's a problem because it removes context from the other positions. Just as you're spending $2 million per year to get this bargain guard, you could also potentially be spending $2 million per year to get Hali's replacement, a dynamic WR opposite Bowe, a true ILB that does way more than bite the ear off Matt Schaub, or a fantastic TE that would really make Alex a happy QB.

Those are all far bigger bargains than getting that magic guard.

because drafting a ****ing guard in the first round is ****ing stupid, that's why

jesus...if we pass on any combo of Beckham/Lee/Cooks for a guard in the first

guards aren't as important as WRs...is also why, and we 'appear' to be in the position of getting a WR that would be out of reach in any other draft

"There is no Andrew Luck David DeCastro or Peyton Manning John Hannah in this draft

Is drafting the best guard in the draft at the #23 position stupid? Especially when it's a position of need?

And because of the incredible depth of the wide receiver position in this draft, the Chiefs could potentially get a borderline first round talent at the WR position with their third round pick. Guys like Devin Street, Mike Davis, Kevin Norwood, Robert Herron, Jared Abbrederis, Josh Huff, etc., are all very solid receiver prospects. (Devin Street, at least to me and from a measurables perspective, is as good as any of the guys who are being bandied about as potential first rounders.)

That #23 spot rookie receiver coming in is going to initially be a #3/#4/ST guy at best. That #23 spot rookie guard starts and is already better than anybody else on the roster.

I'm just being practical. Personally, my most superativest favorite player for our pick is Odell Beckham. However, being realistic and understanding the needs of the team, S'ua-Filo would be the better pick considering what potential receivers will still be on the board in the third round.

All speculation and you have nothing to back that up.

The same can be said for the guards in this draft. I'd rather take a guy who could potentially be a 1 wr vs a guard early when I could take a guard that can play at a high level later.

:clap:

I'm just pointing out that there are apparently many people who didn't see a problem with paying Schwartz $4+ million per year - a guy who is on his fourth team in four years, virtually defining the term "journeyman."

To get what many people believe as the best guard prospect since DeCastro and a potential All-Pro level performer at the position at $2 million per seems like a freaking bargain.

The only problem is that these same people don't want to spend a first round draft pick on that guy. They are happy to spend $3 million more on a journeyman player but don't want a superior prospect because it's a hypothetical waste of a first round selection. "I'm happy spending $5 million per on an average player, but **** NO!!!1!11!, I don't want to spend $2 million on a potential All-Pro level player at the same position because it means that I have to use a first round draft pick to do it."

That seems asinine to me.

the WR we draft is going to have #1 WR upside, a much more important investment than a guard...and again, WRs of that caliber are usually not sitting their at #23

we should be drafting QBs, WRs, and pass rushers in the first in no particular order...we should not be drafting guards, as a matter of principle

rebuilding this team with back-to-back first round OL picks when the only pass catcher of any talent on our team is an older vet (Bowe) is insane

we don't need the latest 'best guard ever' (said every ****ing year)...we need game breakers

Okay, from a hypothetical perspective, which do you think is a better situation in terms of potential talent from an overall team perspective?:

#1. Xavier S'ua-Filo
#3. Devin Street

or

#1. Marquis Lee
#3. Trai Turner

and why do you want to 'bargain shop' for WRs, while spending a premium pick on a guard?

it is so ass backwards

That one.

Marquis Lee can score on any play, Street can't...that's what you pay for in the first

mmmmm...tasty

We let Schwartz walk, and replacing him will be an undrafted player who was on the practice squad until the final week of last season, even though the team had a mountain of offensive line issues.

Yay.

Because, once you get past Watkins, Evans, Beckham and Cooks, the rest of the WR's are basically the same level until you hit the later part of the fourth round. (And I'm not so sure that guys like Moncrief and Huff and Street aren't just as good as the top four guys anyway.)

The #23 pick isn't a "premium" pick. It's not a top ten pick, where you are theoretically selecting a potential transcendent level player.

As well, much the same as the strong side OLB and RT, OG is a different animal these days. It's not the Woody Hayes three yards and a cloud of dust, '70's offense that required a big ass mauler to push the guy in front of him backwards a couple of years type of position anymore.

Remember when Asamoah went out and Schwartz came in and how much better the entire offensive line looked from that point on? And Schwartz is just a guy.

Getting a guy who is potentially an All-Pro level player at that spot seems to represent good value, regardless of the position he plays.

So Schwartz made the offensive line better....but he's just a guy.

****ing stupid.

I beg to differ:

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Devin Street
6'3"
198 lbs.
33 3/8" arms
9 1/4" hands
40: 4.55
Vertical: 37"
Broad: 124"
3 Cone: 6.89 seconds
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

Marquis Lee
6'0"
192 lbs.
31 3/4" arms
9 1/2" hands
40: 4.52
Vertical: 38"
Broad: 127"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

Same guy except Street is bigger and high points the ball better. Better hands than Lee as well.

So why is Lee regarded as a 1st rounder and Street isn't?

You lose all credibility when you compare two WR on paper. Measurables mean nothing.

Four teams in four years says that he's just a guy.

If the Chiefs thought he was super All-Pro like everyone around here thinks, then I'm pretty sure that 16 over 4 wouldn't have been too much of a stretch to retain his services.

Just a guy. We signed his identical twin in Linkenbach. I don't know why people keep freaking out about the team letting Schwartz go.

I don't know, either, but I also don't know why you are obsessed with drafting an OG in the first round when one will be there in the third or fourth.

I'm hoping that you are going to provide information about why I was misinformed then...since you are obviously the "informed" one about the whole comparison.

Unless you are just a hypocritical piece of shit.

So, inform me...

Then answer my question.....Why is Lee regarded as a 1st rounder and Street isn't?

Jesus I hope not.

His production his sophomore year, when he had a legit high level QB throwing the ball (Barkley) and Robert Woods taking pressure off him.


2011: Games: 12 Rec/Yards: 73/1143 Aver: 15.7 TDs: 11
2012: Games: 13 Rec/Yards: 118/1721 Aver: 14.6 TDs: 14
2013: Games: 11 Rec/Yards: 57/791 Aver: 13.9 TDs: 4

Player A
HEIGHT
6'4"
ARM LENGTH
33 5/8"
WEIGHT
228LBS.
HANDS
10 1/8"

40: 4.50
vert: 42"
129" broad jump
20 reps on the bench press

Long strider that can stretch the field and shows the ability to consistently track the ball in the air. Possesses excellent hands and high points the ball very well. Strong runner after the catch that breaks arm tackles and flashes a vicious stiff arm. Fearless over the middle.

Player B
HEIGHT
6'4"
ARM LENGTH
34 3/8"
WEIGHT
211LBS.
HANDS
9 1/4"

40: 4.50
vert: 34"
126" broad jump
18 reps on the bench press

Possesses prototypical height, a wide catch-radius, and very good speed. A true vertical, big play threat. Explodes off the line. Eats up cushions immediately. Doesn't idle down in-and-out of his breaks. Displays the ability to uncover against zone. Can haul in the poorly thrown pass and wins most jump balls. Productive over the middle. Very competitive.

AJ Green never topped 1000 yards in a season or had more than 10 TDs.....he must suck.

Really what it comes down to is how much is the drop off between a guy like:

- Marquis Lee versus Devin Street or Mike Davis or Jared Abbrederis
- Odell Beckham/Brandin Cooks versus Josh Huff or Robert Herron

versus

Xavier S'ua Filo versus Trai Turner or Dakota Dozier

Which drop off are you willing to accept more?

The point is that saying "this guy is just as tall/fast/hands/productive as this other guy... they must be the same!" has just been disproven time and time again.

Jerry Rice wasn't great because of his measurables, and the fact that we have to say that again is crazy. It's not new information or innovative thinking.

Your obsession with a guard in the first round is just unbelievable. As if a new right guard is what this team is REALLY missing.

I just don't understand. Really, I don't understand why guard is the big problem in your opinion.

Baldwin vs. Green

And?

Baldwin was a lazy player in college who couldn't separate off the line even at that level despite his prodigious measurables.

I take it you are happy with Linkenbach or Johnson as your starting RG and Allen as your LG.

And you feel that upgrading either Hemingway or Jenkins is the best route to take with that first round pick.

That's cool.

I just can't get through to you.

And you are happy with handing the keys over to a rookie.

That's cool.

I just wildly disagree with you.

It's not upgrading Hemingway or Jenkins. It's upgrading Bowe or Avery.

AJ Green was a prodigy level player for the position. That he never topped 1000 yards in a season in college is irrelevant.

Same with Calvin Johnson, who only topped 1000 yards once in a three year college career.

With Lee, once Barkley and Woods are gone and he's the focus of the offense, you actually lose 1000 yards from his sophomore to his junior year. That's an absolutely incredible number/drop in production.

Marquise Lee is a prodigy level player for the position. His 2013 season is irrelevant.

See how easy that is?

I know what you are saying.

What I'm saying is that guys like Devin Street and Mike Davis and Jared Abbrederis put up as good or better numbers than a guy like Lee and seem to have not only the measurables but the work ethic and drive as well.

It's an extremely deep WR position draft. There are incredibly solid prospects well into the fourth round. Guys who put up ridiculous college numbers like Cody Hoffman might not even get drafted.

What the problem is is that there are a number of people who think that the OG position is a pile of shit and you can just put a guy you found at a truck stop there and get quality production versus a "skill position" where if you don't spend a first rounder on that you'll never get that type of player again in the draft.

Then there is the problem of guys willing to pay journeymen level players $4 and $5 million dollars per because they don't want to spend a first round pick on a particular position, even though that first round pick will be paid half of that and most likely has substantially more upside than said overpaid journeyman player.

However, when it comes down to it, the best players at their positions, regardless of the position, tend to get drafted early versus later.

And I'm already on record stating that I would love Odell Beckham as our pick. In fact, if he's there and they pass, I'm going to be a bit disappointed. However, I'm not going to lose my shit if they decide to go with a guy like S'ua-Filo, who is generally regarded as the best offensive guard prospect in this draft and the best at that position since DeCastro.

I'm also of the opinion that guys like Donte Moncrief and Devin Street and Mike Davis have as much potential to develop into #1 WR's as do guys like Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins and Marquis Lee. I'm also of the opinion that Beckham and Cooks will be off the board by the time the Chiefs pick and if they want to go that fast slot guy route, dudes like Josh Huff and Robert Herron are not that far behind Beckham and Cooks. It's just that deep of a draft for that position.

Right, I get you.

My point is this... I would rather have the fourth best WR in the draft than the single best guard. I would also rather have the second best tight end in the draft than the best guard.

I personally think that our TE situation is terrible as is our WR corps. I think there are multiple guys in this draft who can be at least as good as Bowe right out of the gate. If one of them can push to be our #1 threat and make Bowe his more natural #2... then I'll take them over any guard other than a rookie Will Shields.

WR > OLB > TE > OG > S > ILB > CB > OT > NT = DE > QB > RB >

absolutely

Skill positions can have greater impact

Guard might be the lowest impact position on the entire team or fullback since teams don't use them much.

Why did the Giants give him that starting contract? Because he's just a guy?

Or because he was a young player that needed time to turn into the solid starter that he was for us?

Bouncing around from team-to-team doesn't mean shit. On paper if that's all you know about a player, then sure, it's a bad thing. We don't have just that. We have half of a season's worth of games to look at what he did and judge him as a starting offensive lineman. The prognosis around most of the fanbase was that he was absolutely good enough to start for the team longterm. The Giants clearly ****ing viewed it that way, and so did John Dorsey, who apparently tried hard to reach out to Schwartz, but wouldn't bite the bullet on the contract that Schwartz wanted.

I'm not sure if anyone is implying it, but I want to make it clear that Rishaw Johnson is very athletic, and not just a "bum" because he wasnt drafted by the chiefs.

https://i.imgur.com/G9Dwia0.png

Rishaw Johnson also has 35.25" arms, and 10.25" hands
while Xavier has 33.375" arms, and 9.375" hands

This. It's a position where lots of lower rounders fare well, it's a position where even a stud is barely a difference maker. Compare to a wr that can individually change games and where finding that difference making talent is much harder to find in later rounds. We may make small potatoes out of a five million dollar contract, but seeing that we would hope to resign Smith, Berry, and Houston AND spend money on impact free agents, you can't just throw your money around. Schwartz will be an easy guy to replace. Not saying anyone on our roster is guarantees to do that. But between what we have and guys we can still take late in the draft or off the waiver wire, I'm not concerned.

You could say the exact same thing for Rishaw Johnson. And sure... John Dorsey wanted him back, but clearly NOT for the amount of money that the Giants were willing to pay him.

Scwartz might be the single most over-valued player I've ever seen in a KC uniform. Dude starts less than half a season and he suddenly becomes irreplaceable and the future of the organization. I just don't get it.

Dozier and Turner are both potential starters. I wouldn't be comfortable giving them the starting spot in Year One.

I'm also not comfortable giving S'ua Filo the starting spot in Year One. I've seen this ****ing song and dance before when it comes to the "safe" picks we draft in the first round.

Eric Fisher, Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, Ryan Sims, John Tait, Victor Reilly...

Newsflash: Those guys weren't "safe" players at all in their rookie seasons. Quite the opposite, actually. They all sucked dick as first-year starters

**** the future of the offensive line. We can get guys for the future in Dozier and Turner. What we worry about right now is THIS YEAR. 2014. Who's going to not look like Eric Fisher out there?

S'ua Filo is just as much an unknown in that department as Rishaw Johnson. No difference.

Rishaw has one game of starting experience. He's going to have pitfalls. Schwartz came in with a lot of experience, actually.

Guards should be invisible. You shouldn't notice they exist on the team. If your guy is a pancake machine and Will Shields, then great, but other than that a team should only ever invest in the position to keep it adequate and steady.

Schwartz was adequacy and steadiness. He would have been a veteran figure that the rest of the line is already comfortable playing next to. Now the Chiefs have to worry about Fisher, Stephenson, AND their RG, in addition to Jeff Allen's continued bullshit and Rodney Hudson just being okay.

Having Schwartz there would have helped out all those problems in a significant way.

nonsense

jesus...if we can't even admit that Lee is superior to Street, then we're in la-la land

prior to his injury, Lee was a top 5 pick and basically an unstoppable beast

call me when Street does the following:
118 catches
1721 yards
14tds


and you want to pass on that for a guard and dollar store version of a #1 WR...no thanks

players of Lee's caliber don't generally fall to #23, we can win the draft by being smart enough to recognize that

Again, I just think you are massively overvaluing Schwartz.

Won't be long before Rishaw Johnson is more popular than Dwayne Bowe, amirite?

At least he's cheap, you know? Probably a hard worker. If you work hard and make NFL minimum you'll be a fan favorite in KC.

It's my contention that the sixth or seventh best WR in this draft is just as good with as much or more potential than the fourth best WR in this draft.

In fact, I think a guy like Donte Moncrief has the tools to be the best receiver in this draft when it's all said and done.

And I like guys like Devin Street, Jordan Matthews and Mike Davis as much as I do a guy like Marquis Lee (and personally, I don't like Lee that much as a potential #1 WR).

And, as I said, I don't think that there is that much of a drop off between Beckham (who I think is the second best receiver in this draft) or Cooks versus Josh Huff, Bruce Ellington and Robert Herron. (I mean, shit, I don't ever mention Ellington, but here's a guy who has basically the same combine measurables as Odell Beckham. This draft is crazy deep at the WR position.)

There is an absolute shit ton of 4.4something, 36"+ vertical receivers in this draft with very good to excellent college production. There's a shit ton of boom/bust guys (Evans, Benjamin, Coleman, Janis). It's a ridiculously deep WR draft.

I don't think there is a problem with our tight end position. Fasano is a very solid starting NFL TE. Kelce has a ton of potential. McGrath only had one year of college football experience at a school that had less people than a large high school, but they guy was getting open and turning upfield against NFL safeties and linebackers in what was essentially his rookie year. The guy has a lot of growth/development/celing left in him as a player. If Kelce is recovered from his injury, then this is a position of strength/depth.

I think that there are a number of guys who are as good as Bowe in this draft as well. I just happen to think that those guys are still going to be available with our third round pick, especially if Beckham is off the board. (Though I wouldn't cry about them using their first rounder on Donte Moncrief, who, at this stage is a faster, more explosive version of Dwayne Bowe who runs substantially better routes.)

Ideally, if I were picking, I would love to see:

#23. Odell Beckham
#87. Cyril Richardson (who was, up until the Senior Bowl, a virtual first round lock and I still think he's one of the best OG prospects in this draft)

but I'm not going to bitch about them taking a guy like S'ua-Filo if Beckham is off the board. (Though, I'd still go with a guy like Donte Moncrief, Kyle Van Noy or Jeremiah Attaochu, especially if you could trade back.)

So does Linkenbach.

He's the identical twin of Geoff Schwartz.

Nobody really gave a shit about Schwartz when we signed him and here was a guy who the coaching staff felt wasn't good enough to beat out the mediocrity of Jon Asamoah. However, after six games, we are wailing and lamenting the fact that we didn't give him $5 million dollars per annum on a long term deal and now we are only left with shit bags like Linkenbach and Johnson and Watkins - guys just like ****ing Schwartz.

Rishaw will shock the world.

You don't get it. Everyone that we didn't draft that plays a "skill position" is a bum to the vast majority of people around here.

Alex Smith? ****ing bum.
Fasano? ****ing bum.
Avery? ****ing bum.

The non-skill players who we draft are also ****ing bums.

Fisher? ****ing bum.
Stephenson? ****ing bum.
Hudson? ****ing bum.
Allen? ****ing bum.
Bailey? ****ing bum.

As well, anyone who we drafted and didn't play due to injury is a ****ing bum.

Kelce? ****ing bum.
Commings? ****ing bum.
Fisher? (again) ****ing bum.

Basically, they have to be skill position players drafted high by this organization to be worth a shit around here.

Guys who are free agent acquisitions at skill positions are ****ing bums.

Guys who are free agent acquisitions at schlep spots (defensive line, offensive line) are legendary heroes.

Notable exception is defensive linemen drafted in the top ten that the national press are jacked up about. Then they are heroes. Non-fawned upon defensive line guys from non-national powers who haven't won the Senior Bowl Defensive MVP award are ****ing bums.

Linkenbach sucked dick with the Colts.

Schwartz didn't suck dick with the Vikings. He played pretty well, actually.

This, Schwartz actually played pretty well and showed flashes of dominance in the run game. Linkenbach has always been JAG.

He got sent to the bench and then subsequently to the free agent wire by a rookie.

By calling him adequate? :spock:

I'm not saying he's Will Shields. I'm saying he's young, healthy, and adequate. Give him the Giants contract (which is piddle shit for a long-term deal, really) and move on. Quit ****ing yourself in the ass by going through an offensive line crisis every goddamn offseason when there doesn't have to ****ing be one.

Adequate. Not stellar. Adequate. And to me, adequate is good enough. And if you've got "good enough" when it comes to guard play, you're doing it right. It's an added bonus that he would have had chemistry with the other guys on the team.

Which means drafting one in the 1st or 3rd round this year to solidify the future of our OL. OG is actually very important and key to the success of your offense, just ask Bill Walsh. What kind of Guards you have dictates what kind of plays you can run. If you have crap OGs or just "adequate" OGs, your offense isn't going to be very good.

Which is why the Chiefs scored 40-some points in the playoffs, right? That was with Schwartz and Allen.

I keep saying this, but the Chiefs HAD another RT on their roster when Dorsey and Reid came aboard. Eric Winston. His release earned us like, $5 and a gift card to Starbucks. Basically zero cap savings. He was booted purely because he was viewed as not being important to the team.

Rodney Hudson and Donald Stephenson are going to be a free agents next year. We're going to be in the exact same position, where dudes we drafted don't get cheap longterm deals. We'll look to more Jeff Linkenbachs and Eric Kushs/Rishaw Johnsons, where nobody will be QUITE comfortable handing the positions over to them, and we'll be waffling about whether or not to draft their replacements.

If you burn top draft stock to replace Schwartz/Asamoah, then why the **** wouldn't you burn it to replace Stephenson/Hudson?

Let's just draft offensive line in the 1st round every ****ing year, how about!

ROFL

My friend is a fan, Viking season ticket timeshare, was quite complementary of Schwartz and sad to see him go. they drafted Loadholdt to play RT, and according to most vikes fans he hears on the radio was consistently outplayed by Schwartz, but they wouldn't give him any PT then let him walk.

Schwartz was a gold mine FA signing last year, but he earned his payday and moved on. Dorsey got what he wanted, a year of veteran presence to grow a younger cheaper starting RG. I wanted him back too, but geebus it's time to let go and move on.

Finding, developing, and plugging young guys like Rishaw Johnson in the lineup is exactly what Dorsey has said he's going to do. If they aren't ready yet, you bring in another cheap short term vet, aka Joe Mays vs Nico Johnson or Abdullah vs Commings, or draft someone else (TE anyone?).

I swear this place will bitch when you sign too many FAs and don't try the guys you drafted, then bitch when you don't sign FAs and try the guys they drafted. And yes, i'm qualifying Rishaw, Cooper, as essentially guys drafted or UDFA or practice squad/TC rookie waiver pickups. Teams will drop and sign these prospects back and forth all the time, and good teams will treat them all the same level, based on performance not draft position. I hope that's how we do it. Yes i'm lookin at you Kelce!!

We'll know exactly how the FO and coaches feel these prospects have developed on who/what/when we draft in 2+ weeks. Obviously if we grab OG or FS or TE 1st round that speaks far louder than the hopeful mini-camp fluff we're fed this time of year.

Just please don't be G!!! I'm on the Rishaw bandwagon, and maybe it's in large part cause I'm gonna have a hard time stomaching OG @23 with so much playmaker talent in this draft and I really hope they do believe in RJ as RG starter.

With Alex Smith pulling plays out of his ass, yeah. But when it mattered the OL couldn't create enough running room for the coaches to trust Gray to keep the chains moving.

That's what real QBs should do. It's why I've stopped bashing Alex Smith and have turned into a fan of his. That's going to happen to any QB. Just ask Russell Wilson, who had to dick around constantly to keep plays alive. Colin Kaepernick? The guy on the team with the dream offensive line you've been salivating over for months? Why the hell do you think he dances around as much as he does? Because he's trying out for the Joffrey Ballet?

Also, the OL created room for Knile Davis just fine. Could it be that Gray ****ing sucks? :hmmm:

That's on the OL? They were down to their third RB. I don't blame the OL when the running game slowed down with Gray in the game.

I'm in the same boat as you are. I'm a fan of Rishaw Johnson only because he represents not drafting offensive line in the first round.

ahem...THIS

Zach Martin is very much in play for pick 23.

Just think about it. We have little else behind Fisher and Stephenson, Allen sucks, RG is unsettled, and Martin can fit into any of those positions to become Andy Reid's next Evan Mathis. Both Reid and Dorsey love versatility in their OL players. It's too good to be true for them if Martin falls to 23.

I do have some hope (or maybe it's the koolaid) that he's got some playa in him. I'll take a former 6th round OG who they very much liked but couldn't stick on a superbowl caliber roster over a 1st round OG anyday. Yet I admit it could be the koolaid.

Ah I remember a few drafts ago, how excited I was when the Giants took Ron Dayne, when so freakin many drafturbators had us on his jock. DAMN I was so relieved!!!

Also add in a similar story for big Mike Williams going to Detroit, whew, major bullet dodged!

I look forward to Zach Martin getting selected before 23.

Reid loved Danny Watkins for the same reasons.

And Martin gives us a guard replacement. If Fisher or Stephenson go down, do you REALLY want him stepping in at tackle? I mean, Jeff Allen would have been in the exact same position to step in at tackle if need be, only one year removed from being the starting LT all three years in college. But we never even considered him as a swing option for guard or tackle.

I'm fine with versatility from our backups. That's just fine and dandy. But I don't want our starting guard shifting over in the middle of a game and bringing up the backup to fill his spot. That makes ZERO sense. You've basically got TWO backups filling in instead of one in that case. Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.

**** Zach Martin. **** Su'a Filo. **** Chance Warmack. **** David DeCastro. **** Mike Iupati.

**** drafting guards in the first round. Ever.

:spock: Schwartz didn't start a single game for the Vikings.

He didn't say that he started did he? He said he played well for them.

How the hell can you tell that? Schwarz only came in as an extra lineman or during field goals that year. He had less than 10 snaps in the majority of games that season.

Schwartz is terribly overrated on this forum. He's not even an average guard. There's a reason he's started more than 3 games only twice in his career.

not going to happen ... Johnson,Hudson,kush etc are going to compete for the RG spot.

There will be a viable WR there at #23 to take like Cook or Lee. Unless someone falls unexpectedly that we decide it too good to pass up.

Man, I really wanted them to draft Alex Mack back in 2009.

****ing Gus Bradley knows how to build a team.