If some young guys improve this year and we saved up money to re-sign Berry and Houston and Smith, then I have no problem with this team being a little rocky.

Why would any of those guys sign with a team that hasn't won a playoff game in 22 years?

LMAO

...just tossin' that one out there.

so I assume the sky has already fallen...or is it still in the process of falling?

So this means they actually played as bad as they looked.

According to some it fell last year the day the Chiefs traded for Smith.

We were a player or two away from winning a playoff game last year.

Every year the talent here leaves and is replaced by lesser talent...

And this season will probably vindicate everyone who realized how bad of an idea it was to trade for Smith.

It was a "win-now" move for a team that was 4-5 years away from being in a position to actually "win-now."

Allen has been a pile of shit since he got here. I don't see why he started last year and I don't see why the team doesn't see that.

It's a young line that hasn't played much together. They've got a couple of more preseason to work on it, but my guess is they'll gel and start looking pretty solid around week 4....just like last year.

Not sure I buy that.

The Chiefs could have been a competitive team this year if the FO stood by their win-now move of trading for Alex Smith. Instead they went full reerun and drafted to replace instead of drafting to fill, both ****ing years.

No not really. I think the goal is above that, but it is not to try year in and year out with the strive to win the SB.
I think they want us to stay above 7-9 record. Almost at no matter the long term cost.
I think for the Chiefs to get to a SB it is going to have to be a "Lightning in a bottle" type of thing.
I believe the ownerships goal is to field teams that will have 10-6 and 11-5 records in the regular season. Thinking that those teams should be able to win a playoff game or two every once in a while. Which no it sure hasn't exactly worked out that way winning anything meaningful, but I think that is what they want. Just a winning football team that makes a little noise every once in a while.

Because we are the Chiefs

Man there are some stupid people here.

People bitch because Alex Smith is up there on the win column with Manning, Brady and Brees over the last 4-5 years. They say it's an irrelevant stat. How many NFL QBs have winning records? Take a hard look at the history of that stat.

Then they complain that the Chiefs aren't trying to win.

I must say that it is entertaining.

There is a bigger picture agenda here that I don't think that a lot of people are willing to accept.

Spending two 2nd rounders on Alex smith crippled two draft classes.

Couple that with the fact that last years draft was about the worst in recent memory, and of course the Chiefs would have the first pick in that abortion.

The Irony of that is that there were several people on this forum who were flaming the Chiefs for not taking geno smith, fair, but then when accepted that wasn't going to be the case, also flamed them for thinking about taking Joeckell, insisting that they would be okay with taking Eric Fisher, just not joeckell.

Now some of those same ass hats, are anti fisher.

Meanwhile, Joeckell has looked really good the first two preseason games this year.

This is a process. you do not go from a 2-14 football team to super bowl contender in one night.

it didn't happen in philly for the eagles when Andy reid arrived.

it happened quickly, yes, but not over night.

they built it the same way they are doing it here.

Slowly weeding out the garbage that was there, which they are doing, and will continue doing next year when players like Hali (hes not garbage, but hes old) Bowe, (unless he has an out of body experience all year, and he too will be 31 next season) and building a young foundation around Alex smith going forward.

I get it. the Chiefs fans have suffered for so many DECADES, not years DECADES that patience is none existent.

But it will end up in a positive.

you can already see the depth that is being built around the team. There are some areas that need to be still addressed, but in reality, the rbs are being built, the pass rush is being built, the oline is being built, and they still need work, but I think that the idea was for long term longevity, rather than instant gratification.

ill get flamed, and called an idiot, but for decades the same adage has always been true.

rome was not built in a day.

cheers.

I'd be interested to see the GB pff o-line stats while Dorsey was up there. I don't think he'll put much emphasis on it. If they are good 90% of the time it will be enough for Dorsey and Reid imo. We have an elusive QB.

It's pretty bad.. but yes... hard to look away from. LMAO

I feel badly for all of the die-hard fans here that actually do still have a spine left, and believe that their team may in fact get that 1st playoff win since 97. I guess many have left the forum for good. Why stay and deal with all of the tears and vaginal discharge?

Chiefs were so close last year! Oh, but "easy schedule! and a fluke! They are not trying! They just want mediocrity!"

Poor, defeated bastards. :shake:

It wasn't for lack of addressing it.

They drafted bulaga, derrick sherrod, sherrod is just a bust, and bulaga has been okay, he's just hurt.

You get a lot of grief here, but this is probably the most intelligent post from you that I have ever seen. It is easily the most intelligent one in the thread.

I'm like, all teeth.

Dinny

That's funny, so was Blackbob/John Dope (according to his uncle/babysitter/babysitter's son)

People bitch because the Chiefs made a BUNCH of win-now moves before the 2013 season, including signing several second-tier free agents that now have eaten up the team's cap space, then did NOTHING but sit on their haunches and add via the draft this offseason.

They seem to be competing philosophies.

You mean first playoff win since '93...:shake:

Funny stuff.

I am honestly interested in your opinion, sorter. Are wins a relevant stat? I didn't have you figured for one of the Genobators. Do you think we should have drafted Geno? Should we have/have not traded for Alex?

I didn't have you figured for a PFF fantasy geek, more of a real football X&O guy. Therefore your takes would have more credibility.

I'm not defending the poster, just acknowledging a good point when it is brought up. It did seem ironic coming from him, though.

Dinny

The OL was bad and Allen was / is the worst. As bad as it was, the CB's got them beat...At least the OL can do decent things sometimes, the CB's cant. :shake:

so the #1 pick in the draft has a shoulder that tires out after one quarter


at least it was a safe pick...that being the priority, of course

Great, another "it's not Alex's fault" thread.

I don't think it's a hard story. The Chiefs decided to rebuild but make it enjoyable to watch. I don't think it's a competing philosophy. Judging by the way we negotiated contracts this off-season and dorseys style with the Packers, this year is much more representative of how the team will probably be run all years forward. So over five years, we will look back and probably see year 1 as unusual. Some may disagree with me, but I don't think letting the team tank last year was ever an option. I think Clark hunt gave the ultimatum to at least make the team watchable in 2013 and it's hard to blame him.

Fisher completely sucked last year and spent all of this offseason recuperating and rehabbing from two surgeries. I have no idea why people think he's going to step on the field and play well. Everyone said he needed an offseason of strength and conditioning which he didn't get with the shoulder surgery. It wouldn't surprise me if he injures himself again.

That still doesn't mean it makes sense as a viable long-term approach for doing things.

If "being respectable" was truly mandated in 2013, and that's what led to the Alex Smith deal, all the FA signings, etc, with anything other than the goal of building a long-term winner in mind, **** Clark Hunt.

Now, maybe Alex Smith really is a guy they looked at as bridging the gap between this prospective "ultimatum" to not suck and building long-term. Maybe. If that's the case, and Andy Reid really likes him that much, it makes signing him long-term even more important.

Problem is, all those shitty FA signings from 2013 to satisfy this prospective "ultimatum" potentially handcuff the Chiefs in keeping Smith and actually retaining the best young player on their roster (Justin Houston).

If Clark Hunt put Dorsey in that spot and is to blame for the competing and counter-productive approaches, **** him.

But that would still be better than Dorsey flip-flopping his approach from year to year.

Hole in our line there is no hole in our line

PFF grading the preseason

LMAO

Eric Fisher got beat like a step child in Sundays game. The Chiefs need to bring in a special coach to work with him one-on-one or Smith will not last 4 games. There has got to be someone better in the meantime. Maybe go with a 2 TE set to give Fisher some help and give Kelce some extra time?

Bingo.

Go out and give up a small fortune (in draft picks) for Alex Smith and then surround him with garbage and potentially get him killed.

****ing brilliant.

So only those fans that believe the team can win in the playoffs are die-hard? Being a loyal fan for almost 40 years counts for nothing just because you have some doubt?

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Of course, your definition of "die hard" might different, given that you follow players and don't know a thing about teams or loyalty.

Feeling defeated after 30 years of failure is a natural human emotion. People that want this team to prove it are NORMAL.

I feel badly for the "die-hards" with blind faith (who Sandy likes to praise), too... It takes blind faith to believe they're going to do enough to fix or cover up the massive problems on the OL and in the secondary to make the playoffs. Because the Chiefs are going to yank the football away from them at the last moment again, leaving them flat on their backs.

I don't think there's enough one-on-one coaching to fix his issues this season. MAYBE if he gets stronger between this year and next, he can get the job done. But there's still the matter of technique and footwork, which have a long way to go, too.

I have no clue what you are talking about... but I think you should cut your losses and stop typing.

Not a bad plan IMO. Get some decent band aids while you build through the draft and then your drafted players will be ready.

S. Smith, Fasano, DeVito and Avery were all band aids and will all be gone this time next year.

And if Alex Smith doesn't survive this process?

They've drafted replacements for every "bridge" player EXCEPT Alex Smith...

It's a horrible plan. You basically waste two + years of Smith, Hali, DJ, Charles and Bowe for the hope that you are going to have a fantastic 2015 draft to build around. The ultimate hope being that those draft picks can replace the 5 aforementioned players.

Whether you like it or not, Reid loves Alex and wants him here. That's not changing for the next 3 years (at least).

I would suggest getting used to it

Did you read my post? He can't play for 3 more years if he gets broken in half behind this awful offensive line.

If Alex Smith IS NOT a "band aid" - if he's truly a long-term solution - then they haven't exactly treated him like it. They've surrounded him with band-aids and garbage.

Does that make ANY sense to you at all?

Yep.

And so far they haven't proven that they can draft any better than the previous regime, in all honesty.

I don't think it will be as bad as the numbers would lead one to believe. But I don't think it's going to be good, either.

Except you need as many picks as possible to actually build through the draft, especially 1-3rd round picks, and you actually have to HIT with those picks.

Not exactly knocking it out of the park on Part 2.

Bowe isn't garbage. Charles isn't garbage. Avery is meh but not too bad.
I think they envisioned Kelce to be a big time weapon and so far he looks legit.
Same with Knile Davis who looks pretty solid IMO.

But I do agree about the OL. I think Fisher is not meeting their expectations which has to be frustrating them. There's no way they thought he would be having this much trouble.

:thumb:

The correct course of action was to trade Houston, Berry and JC in order to correctly rebuild the team.

But Clark cared more about the bottom line and wanted gate revenue instead.

Both of them were here before Reid and Dorsey arrived.

My point is, they gave up premium draft picks to get Smith.

They should be similarly willing to give up assets to get Smith some help. Banking on a bunch of late rounders and Eric Fisher is silly.

I like the Dee Ford pick but if they don't get him on the field and instead are just putting him in the bank until next year when he replaces Hali, that's yet another misappropriation of resources.

Or you could have signed Houston and Berry, jettisoned some old players, and picked up a stopgap QB that didn't cost two 2nd-round draft picks.

You know actually build for the future...

Keeping Houston pigeonholes the team into sticking with a 3-4. Probably could have had a better coordinator than Bob Sutton if the team wasn't set on sticking to that alignment.

There were no available QB's last year in the draft. Alex was a guy they liked so giving up 2 2nds is the going rate. It was a need that had to be filled.

I think they wanted to build as much as they could with what they have now. It's way to early to say they failed, especially with the 2014 draft picks.

If they don't sign Alex Smith to an extension, this has all been a colossal failure.

They've gotta do something, no way this thing gets straightened out with the current lineup.

Maybe Saccs first round guard wasnt such a bad idea after all #chiefsplanet riot LMAO

I really liked the Fasano signing. He's a nice blocker and has good hands for the most part. It's coincidence that he rarely got hurt in his entire career until last year though.
I think we'll like the TE position with Kelce and Fasano (and Harris). I don't have a big problem with the weapons they've surrounded Alex with, but the OL is very concerning to me.
No way is keeping Albert a good idea unless you want to let Houston go.

You can't fix every problem in 2 offseasons. What should disappoint you is Stephenson and Allen looking like absolute trash. High draft picks like that shouldn't be struggling like this in year 3.

Fasano would be a nice #2 TE. He's not a #1. In him and Kelce, you potentially have two complimentary guys and no actual standout. We can hope about Kelce though. I don't pay much mind to Harris. He looks like one of those guys that will never see the field. All hype, no substance.

They didn't HAVE to draft Fisher to let Albert go. There were other possible solutions. Drafting Fisher 1.1 and then having him suck puts them in a deep hole. Even if Alex Smith is BETTER than they thought he could be, it might amount to nothing if they're biggest, and arguably most important, draft pick is a failure.

Part of the reason Allen and Stephenson might be struggling is because we're changing systems and schemes AGAIN. There's been no continuity on this line, in terms of personnel or scheme, and that hurts them. I've talked to Casey Wiegmann many times and he's always said the #1 factor in the success and/or failure of an offensive line is cohesion. This line has none. This is another area where drafting Fisher, inserting him at RT for a season, and then shuffling him to the other side (forcing Stephenson to move) may have done more harm than good.

Up the ass? :D

There is the conundrum. Signing Alex Smith to an extension like he is supposedly wanting, $17+mil a year with no out clause, will hamstring this team to a point that it will just as easy to be a failure.

In short, the team isn't going anywhere with him on the roster.

2005 all over again for Smith. I do think he is a little better equipped to manage it now than he was then, but it may not be enough. Line has to improve, or nothing else will matter.

Trading Houston and Berry would have been idiocy. Trading Charles could have made some sense if he wasn't a running back (which is a catch-22, really, since him being a running back is the only reason to trade him at this point in his career). Since he's a running back, though, they probably couldn't have gotten fair compensation for him.

There were no other options to letting Albert go. Don't even bring up Stephenson at LT bc he looked way worse than Fisher the other night.

I agree but I also don't. None of the moves handcuff us from signing everybody except bowe and even that is workable. Fasano, Daniel, Avery, devito... These guys are easy to cut.

The Chiefs will have decent enough space next year and a shitload of space in 2016.

He was playing out of position. Stephenson is a natural left tackle and probably would have been a 1st round pick if he had stayed in school. Unlike Fisher, we have actual games where we watched him play well at LT.

Easy to cut.

Yet they won't.

What's the excuse going to be when they don't unload all of these guys?

You nailed it in an earlier post. I said from the start they have to have to draft well. Until you draft their replacement, you can't cut them. I personally think Murray and Kelce could help you get rid of Daniel and Fasano (not anyone's fault McGrath tapped out). Catapano should hopefully make devito expendable. Ford helps us get better leverage with Hali or makes us less vulnerable if we just cut him. So the moves make sense but only if we draft well. Last year's draft sucked. I actually liked this year's draft but we have to do even better.

Only in KC. Not a single game of the 2014 season, yet fans are looking forward to the available cap space in 2016 so the team can make a run by 2018. Laugh at us now, but just you wait, as soon as Andrew Luck retires KC will be a force to be reckoned with!

FYP... ;)

No way. Stephenson got pushed back into Alex all night. That's not a position problem. That's a strength problem

So the most-used excuse for Fisher isn't valid for Stephenson?

Interesting.

By the way, we have actual observational experience of Stephenson playing LEFT tackle at an adequate level. Sunday's preseason game means less than nothing in this conversation. It's completely irrelevant.

Did someone act like Carolina has a world-beating defensive line? Did someone espouse that notion?

Because if they did, I fart in their general direction.

Stephenson has played 1 year longer and didn't have shoulder surgery. He also went to LeCharles Bentley's highly documented camp for OL.

What competition was Stephenson against while playing LT? It's early for Fisher, but the Bengals and Panthers DL are both top 10. Still too early for him.

Let's check back on this after the first month of the season. If Fisher is still struggling than we have problems.

They do have a good line
Great front seven in general

They did lead the league in sacks last year

Not sure if is a strength of technique issue, but it seems to me Fishers tends to lunge at defenders

Most guys that do that do so because they get constantly pushed back and or knocked off balance easily

He is going to give up a lot of quick pressures until he can figure that out

Stephenson has played the actual Left tackle position in actual real-live NFL games, which is more than we can say for Fisher.

This isn't about Fisher struggling. This about the idea that once they decided to get rid of Albert they were FORCED to draft Fisher.

That's the kind of tunnel vision that creates 20-year playoff droughts.

CP, ladies and gentlemen!

Only on CP is a defensive line featuring Charles Johnson, Greg Hardy and Star Lotululei not considered one of the best in the league.

I couldn't tell from his post, but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was being sarcastic.
That Defense was #2 in the league last year behind Seattle. Their front seven is arguably the best in the league let alone just that amazing Dline.
That very well could be the best Dline we face all year.

Stephenson looked solid all of last year.

Fisher hasn't looked solid for more than one game...

Stephenson is our best offensive lineman.

Much like how Milkman stated he hasn't heard much about Cooper, we don't hear shit about Stephenson. That means those guys are doing their jobs.

... Well, at least better than the shit stains we have playing next to them anyway.

Lunging as an offensive linemen is a clear sign that your technique has broken down...otherwise, you bend your knees and use your arms and hips to properly mirror the man you are blocking.

I didn't get a chance to watch either PS game (a few minutes of the second half of the Panthers game) and cant speak from my own viewing of the game, but if he is still lunging that's a HUGE red flag at this point.

Fishers upper body strength is below average and it seems that his technique is just as bad as last year, too if he truly is constantly lunging at defenders out of desperation.