Coaching is important...just ask any QB if they would like to go to the New York Jets AKA Where QB's go to die

Very true. Coaching makes a big difference. But even the best coaches can fail with a QB who just doesn't have it.

Yeah, I know, 29 years is quite pathetic, but so are the Chiefs.

As far as just getting in, it's completely different between baseball and football, or at least it should be.

What I find amusing is that baseball teams should definitely aim for just getting into the playoffs based on the fact there's not a huge difference between the best and worst playoff teams (the best teams only win ~60% of the time and is heavily dependent on pitching, so you get one game that's 7-1 Giants and another game that's 10-0 Royals), as opposed to the large difference in football (~50-62% for WC teams and 80-93% for the best teams).... yet (and here's the amusing part), the Chiefs have played the baseball strategy of "let's just get in" for decades AND the fans not only go for it AND not only eat it up, they practically demand it.

I'm not saying anything definitive about this group after two years, except that SO FAR it's looks exactly like the same old shit, and until that actually changes, fans can eat up mediocre beating mediocre and the occasional upset all they want and bring up that one Ravens team or that one Giants team, but playing the baseball strategy is clearly not the way to go... of course, just my opinion after watching that strategy fail for 30 years, minus that one time they acquired Joe freakin' Montana. I'll give it another two or three decades though just to be sure. :(

I sure wish we had Derek Carr or uhm, one of those other magical franchise qbs that grow on trees

Seems like even Smith haters agree that Reid is great with QB's, both coaching them and finding them... yet refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt about his choice of Smith.

"Yeah his history with QB's is good, but Bray? LMAO"

"Yeah his history with QB's is good, but Murray? LMAO"

Yeah his history with QB's is good, but Smith? LMAO"

So yeah, he's good at coaching and finding QB's... its just that all three of these guys suck balls, is that about right?

Nothing wrong with acquiring a veteran to ease the rookie into the league.

The problem I have is when teams like the Chiefs trade for those veteran backups and act like just because they used the draft to acquire their guy, that means they basically drafted their own QB.

They didn't. All they did was pay an unnecessarily high price for a stop gap-level talent QB who could have been had in free agency.

And yet people like me last year who advocated making the "stabilization period" for the QB position on this team as brief as possible with a free agent like Carson Palmer were ridiculed because Palmer wasn't good enough. You're right, he's not. He would have given us Alex Smith, basically.

Only, you know... we'd be up two 2nd round picks by now, we'd be free to pick any young QB we wanted to wait in the wings, and could ditch the free agent QB at any time without being wasteful

It's not about going down to the dollar store and picking up a franchise QB, it's about trying a clearly superior strategy while finding a middle ground between not trying at all and picking a QB for the sake of picking one... or at least trying a different strategy besides the one that's obviously failed for most of the past 4 decades (outside of Joe Montana and that one time they actually drafted a QB in the first round).

It also comes down to NOTHING is ever good enough for the Chiefs when it comes to QBs in the draft.

"Chiefs should definitely pull the trigger on a QB!


...but only if the thing they're shooting at puts the gun in its mouth for you and gives you a thumbs up when it's time to pull. Otherwise you might miss, and then we might go 2-14! Scary!"

What is your obsession with first round quarterbacks? Name the one Dorsey could have grabbed the past two drafts that wouldn't have been a waste. Your obsession with the first round or bust is idiotic and overplayed. Switch things up a bit. Try harder

I think where GENO is and who coaches him makes a world of difference. That being said we would not have made the playoffs with GENO last year, for better or worse it would have taken time to develop him. New York is a dumpster fire though, everyone has to see that.

You're an idiot if you think they would have passed on Luck if we'd had the opportunity. Throwing Geno into the same category with Luck shows your stupidity.

Chiefs are penetrating mediocrity champions.

We definitely should have sucked for Luck, man everyone was on board here except for the idiots running the organization.

Yeah, but when they get on that bandwagon with shitty quarterbacks and scream first round... Shit like that will never stop.

Reading comprehension skills are lacking here though.

The article didn't say you should never draft a QB, just that in that scenario it worked out better not drafting Geno.

The same idiots here are going to attempt to claim that Clark "won't allow" his very high paid hand picked coach and GM to draft a QB if they wanted to.

It's pretty hilarious.

I am willing to bet good money our next every day starting QB will com from the draft.

I actually agree with you on this. We overpaid for Smith in both draft picks and money... It was a mistake and I hope it wasn't the only thing Dorsey will be remembered for here.

The article comes oh so close to saying the 'boring' strategy is better whenever you don't have a chance to draft a QB like Andrew Luck.... because, like he said, Geno Smith in the 2nd round was such a stretch.

Overpaid in draft picks?

The article is specific to the Geno/Alex debate.

I know right, like a couple of seconds is some kind of franchise killer raping for a steady handed veteran.

No first round QBs since Blackledge in 1983.
No second round QBs since Matt Bludnin 1992.
Brodie Croyle in the 3rd round in 2006.
Pat Barnes in the 4th in 1997.
Aaron Murray and Ricky Stanzi in the 5th in 2014 and 2011 respectively.


There's all the evidence in the world that if the gun was put to any given Chiefs' GM's head, he doesn't select a QB.

Because that gun is being held by a member of the Hunt family, and they believe a high round QB is too risky.

Outside of Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson, what QBs have been drafted lately that you would have wanted more than Alex Smith?

If Joe Flacco can win a Super Bowl, pretty sure Alex Smith can, too.

So it's an argument over 0/1 VS. 0/0...

I'll never understand this line of argument that "It was only a couple of 2nd round picks."

They're only ever just a couple of 2nd round picks... unless you actually draft good players with them. Then, yeah, they ARE a couple of 2nd round picks that we no longer have. And that ****ing sucks.

This front office has already made investments at the QB position.

They've selected/drafted or signed a rookie QB in each of the last two off-seasons. They signed the best known commodity at the position that was available to them when they absolutely needed to (Alex Smith).

They are not sitting on their hands at the position.

I'm pretty sure that they will draft a QB in the higher rounds when one is available that fits their parameters for the position.

Reid has done it in the past and Dorsey did it in Green Bay.

I concur that our next QB will be one that was drafted and developed by the KC Chiefs.

It's not going to be next year or the year after, but it will happen.

It was only a chance to select Justin Hunter, Zach Ertz, Giovanni Bernard, Kiko Alonso or Le'Veon Bell in 2013 and Cody Latimer, Jimmy Garoppolo or Allen Robinson in 2014.

Not like any of those guys would help or anything.

Until "one just wasn't available"

No it doesn't.

You got a franchise level QB with a couple of second rounders.

There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't give those picks up for that. Not one.

What did the Redskins give up just for the hope of getting one in Bobby Griffin?

What did the Raiders give up hoping they'd still have one in Palmer?

The Chiefs gave up peanuts for Smith considering what he's provided in return.

We got a franchise level QB with a 1st rounder in Trent Green.

That was pretty fun. For 5 years.

Then he was gone.

I bet Sanchez and Pennington have more playoff starts than Chiefs drafted quarterbacks have regular season starts.

He got Hermed.

No

You could use that argument for any draft pick, from 1.1 to Mr. Irrelevant. It's so broad that it's meaningless.

We needed a QB and there wasnt one worth trading those two picks for in the draft.

You're acting like they were wasted picks, they werent. Our QB-centric coach was able to hand pick his guy for those two slots.

I still maintain that Geno Smith's fate was sealed BECAUSE he was drafted by the Jets.

That's what Mellinger fails to understand. Did it ever occur to them that Rex Ryan is a shitty head coach? That NY doesn't develop QB well? That between the media and the meadowlands and the poor front office decisions, that the Jets are historically bad at giving a young QB the right environment for maturing into a quality leader?

If Geno Smith had been drafted by a patient franchise that could handle him correctly, given offensive coaches that knew what the hell they were doing, and was allowed to sit and learn for a couple of seasons, he might have had a different story.

But that's not what happened. He's a bust. He's a bum. He sucks.

That's the story of Geno Smith. But I still believe it didn't have to be.

He got Schiavoed.

:rolleyes:

Look, many of us that are glad that we didn't draft Geno also agree that the Chiefs should try to draft an early round QB at some point. And I understand the need to make a point about the Chiefs being afraid to do that. But this goes beyond stupidity.

A quick search reveals that Brodie Croyle has more career starts (18) than Pennington and Sanchez have playoff starts (12).

Actually Brodie has only started 10 games.

All I hear is Genocuses in this post....

LMAOLMAO:LOL::LOL:LMAOLMAO

Alex was easily worth those picks, especially considering that the QB's drafted the last 2 years don't look special at all.

You get the best player to win. Alex was clearly that. And even without a 2nd the 2013 class looks really solid at the top

LMAO whats good for the goose...

That goes for both sides, by the way. The drafturbators do themselves no favors by dickriding obvious busts from day 1 like Geno Smith; meanwhile, the true fans literally defend scrubs like Cassel until they can no longer be defended by any rational human being.

That is what he just said...

CP is dogshit when it comes to QB evaluation....

Hey look its Mr. Tyler Wilson trying to act like he didn't want to draft somebody.

Weren't you matt Barkley biggest fan?

Yes, still wish they would have drafted him. But that douche was deep throating Tyler Wilson hard and acts like he didn't want to draft a qb. So **** him.

"Well he had shitty coaches and talent around him for his first 5 seasons!"

"He was one muffed punt away from the Super Bowl!"

"He played well enough to win last year in Indy!"

Apparently all those shoulda, coulda, wouldas count as playoff wins.

I wanted to draft Tyler Wilson for later and trade Alex smith for the present. But okay.

Alex Smith has been the victim of circumstance his entire career.
Geno Smith obviously sucks and has no one to blame but himself.

Facts.

And bingo.

Who is playing QB if we don't give 2 2nds for Smith and draft the guys you mentioned?

Or are you one of those insiders that know we could have Smith for 1 pick?

I am sure Dorsey threw in the 2nd pick for fun.

Or you could just call them the facts.

Playoff wins or not, they are facts.

I like to think of myself as a rational guy when it comes to Alex. I probably come off as a detractor but it's really only because he's my QB and I hold him to a high standard.

We've already dispelled the notion that he was just a muffed punt away from a Super Bowl, and he played well in Indy but didn't turn in a complete game. People like to rag on Bowe for not getting his foot down but if you want to go that far the pass was NOT perfect. It was thrown a hit behind, causing Bowe to have to slow up and allowing the defender a chance to make a play on the ball. Not to mention the fact that we had three downs prior to that play to get the 1st and he couldn't get the job done.

Good grief dude you are as impartial and opinionated on this subject as 49ers fans are.

And to say any of that stuff has been dispelled is laughable. Its all opinion driven. For every statement made there is a counter opinion. Its not dispelled in any way shape or form. Maybe in your mind but you didn't need any help there anyway.

Its OK to simply admit you are wrong when the evidence keep slapping you in the face. But some people just can't do it.

I want us to draft a first round QB so badly it hurts, but it's ridiculous that the Chiefs could literally draft a Jamarcus Russel type bust, and that would placate posters like Discus Thrower.

It shouldn't be about drafting a QB in the first. It should be about getting a franchise QB. It just so happens that a first round pick is statistically the best way to get one. But I don't give a shit if they trade for him or sign him off the street.

Or trade two second round picks to the San Francisco 49'ers.

Just get a guy who will win a super bowl. Everything else is just noise.

This.

:spock:

I don't believe Mellinger was saying that the safe route is the best choice always and forever.

Basically he was saying sometimes it's best to past on the dream girl if you hear that her vagina is blown out like a spare tire that has been used for 12 months and thousands of miles and is covered in da herps for the safe route. That tire is Geno Smith.

People should back off the ledge if they think he is definitely verbally blowing Alex Smith.

Is a bunch of crap.

Geno has the exact same issues he did the second half of his senior season. He knows what the issues are but cant correct them because that's who he is.

When the idea of trading for Alex Smith was proposed in the regular season, NOBODY but n00bs and 12-year olds liked it.

People eventually warmed up to the idea, some faster than others, but the universal reaction across the board was **** NO

In our defense it's not like we've seen many good ones up close and personal. Joe Montana and Trent Green in my lifetime. About what 6-7 seasons worth.

even if you did you would still **** it up....

I would agree with this. I keep hearing Rex Ryan, Jets.. never had a chance.. blah blah...

The reality of it is.. Geno had plenty of talent around him. He just couldn't keep from making the huge, game-changing mistakes. Stupid decision-making put him on the bench... not the Jets.

I say this while acknowledging that he's very young. Not at all hating on him or condemning Geno's career. He still could learn from his stupidity and become a quality starter.... maybe... but I wouldn't bet money on this happening. Just as I thought of him as a prospect.. I am skeptical that he has the mental makeup to strengthen through this process. If I turn out to be wrong later, hey, good for him.

That's the whole ****ing point. I am capable of acknowledging that what I want might not be what is best.

After the first rd was over everyone reasonable was like "well this is one shitty draft class for QB's, no less players in general."

If it hasn't been posted in some other thread.... (from AP)

:clap:

God bless Norm, one of the most underrated funny guys of all time, I'll never forgive Lorne Michaels for letting NBC pressure him into dumping Norm over the OJ jokes.

Matter of fact, I'm gonna let my old pal Lorne know just how I feel about it... he put me and kept me on his front page of friends on Myspace, so yeah, we're pretty tight.

edit* dammit SNR, now MY post looks outta place!

I disagree... the kid obviously has talent. You don't get to where he is without talent. He just isn't the rare, 1 in a million, person that can step onto any football field day one, regardless of scheme and personnel, and magically turn a franchise around.

Like most of these QB's out of college, they would benefit tremendously if they were afforded the opportunity to develop behind a veteran for at least a year (I'd actually like to see Rookie QB's "red-shirt" in the NFL for a year) and then give him a coach/coordinator that understands his strengths as well as his "issues" and 1) coaches him up and 2) puts him in the best position to succeed. With QB's I personally think it is rarely the QB that busts but rather the environment that he is thrown into. I think it is incumbent upon the organization to know all of that before they select in the draft to make sure the QB and the system/coach are a good fit. Otherwise you are just wrecking a potential career.

He's a one read QB who's not particularly accurate, and who folds under pressure. Those QBs don't generally improve, at least not early on. People who think the kid would have made it somewhere other than NY (though I'm sure NY isn't helping) are people who insist that he'd have been that special snowflake.

I will keep this simple for you.

Yes he has talent, physically.

But he doesn't have the head for it and that will not change.

He is Tony Banks V2. Not because he is black but because he is black, isn't really mobile, has a big arm, and makes terrible decisions.

Maybe... I don't know. I just know that the Jets were shit and the coaching staff not great. I think it would have been tough for most QB's to just come in there and immediately have success without any of the structure I talked about before.

For as much as everyone talks about how important the position is... not many organizations do much to protect their investment. They just draft a kid and throw him to the wolves. If you think someone is good enough to select high, why not try to do what you can to make that pick work?

Can you explain to me where the NYJ are lacking so horribly in support cast for Geno?

Also consider that Marty Morinwheg is his offensive coodinator.

Geno Smith hasn't really had a lot of support (talent wise around him) or coaching at this point in the NFL.

The Chiefs didn't miss out on Sanders because of money. They missed out on Sanders because they didn't have Peyton Manning.

SNR truly believes he could run an NFL franchise. ROFL

We weren't truly in on Sanders. He ****ed us. It's ok. He will get his and break his ****ing leg

Great, now you're a ****ing liar in addition to being a dumbass and a bet-welcher.

Let me know when you add axe-murderer to the list. Then I'll go buy a gun.

I'm just fine with the fact that Andy didnt bring Marty along with him here, but lets not act like its all his fault that Geno sucks... after all, you're talking about the same OC that made Mike Vick look like a legit superstar QB for atleast two seasons.

He even had me sold on Vick in 2010, what with the 21 to 6 td/pick ratio and 100+ QBR... so dont pass it all of on Marty, let Geno suck on his own.

This is the ONLY correct thing you've said since you've been here... there was nothing Dorsey could've done to prevent that.

He got snookered by a shady agent and player that wanted to use us as leverage against the team he wanted all along... oh, and **** your shady ass team ;)