The future does extend beyond a year, you know.


Besides, Denver has never been shy about moving around in the draft to get a QB that they want, even if it's an abortion.

Brian Griese did all right until his shoulder was badly injured. After that he played scared, wasn't ever the same QB.

They would be stupid to change if Manning came back.

Elway has already said he wants PM back.

He won't need to worry about pressure. He will have a shitty season and his good buddy, that drunk Elway, will fire his ass.

Manning is done. His arm is shot, he's 39 years old and doesn't need the money or risk of injury. Elway knows this because had Manning not intended to retire, there was no reason for fire Fox and especially Adam Gase.

Elway is a smart man.

Dilfer just said Manning could play another 3-4 more years

He's not going to fire him after one season.

Maybe we can trade chase Daniel to the broncos for 2 2nd rd picks

Dilfer might just be the most reeruned thing in the world that walks on two legs

I think if Dilfer, Jaws, Hoge and the rest of the ESPN ex QB lackeys prove anything is that all their opinions are generally useless and are thus worthless.

To be positive, it shows Elway isn't content with what you've accomplished during the Fox era. That's a good thing.

I think after Manning does indeed retire that's when Elway's job truly begins though. I think Bronco fans would agree. Not a bad gig building a team around a future HOF QB. We'll see how good of a GM he is.

Except that most GMs would wait until Manning is done to change HCs. If Manning only has one year bringing in a new coach with a new system that all of them have to learn isn't the best way to get the most out of his last year. Even if he keeps the same offense they will also have a new DC and the players will have to learn it.

Of course if he already knows Manning is going to retire then this would be a good time for a change....

There was dissension among the coaches/Elway that was hidden from the public for most of the year until after the Colts game. Fox/DelRio against Elway/Manning/Gase and the Colts game indirectly really exposed this split. Elway probably wished he had replaced Fox with Gase after last year's SB debacle but Elway realized how much stability Fox did bring to the team and did not want to upset the applecart when Elway felt he was 'that close' to winnning a SB. However, when Fox didn't get his contract extended this last spring Fox and DelRio knew they were 'on notice' and Elway didn't want anymore excuses from Fox about not having enough defensive playmakers. So Elway went balls to wall on FAs and brought in Ware,Talib and Ward. The first big issues that split Fox/Elway was that Fox(regardless if he is a D guy) is a run first guy and you need to establish the physicality first before finesse in the air. Elway,Manning and Gase follow the Gillman approach that the pass sets up the run. Well, by 2/3rds of the season it looked like Fox was right because the Donks began to sputter because they were way too pass happy and almost abandoning the run entirely and D coords had a much easier time defensing the donkeys. They go back to running more and began to become more effective.

Now by playoff time you have 4 hard headed guys facing off against each other 3 against 1 Elway/Manning/Gase vs Fox as to how the game plan should go against the Colts. It was apparent Fox gave up on the offensive game plan to run more and just gave in to the regime and it showed because Gase/Manning were horrible that day and ran very little but when they did run Anderson was effective. They just didn't run enough and who knows how many times PM checked out of Gase's calls. The 2nd big issue that sealed Fox's firing IMO was Fox's lack of blitzing the whole game and having Talib cover the slot guy (Hilton) when Talib had never covered the slot all year and Fox did not make any adjustments whatsoever the whole game. There is no way that Elway was not privy to the Defensive game plan and I'm sure he told Fox his reservations about allowing Luck to get to comfortable back there. No way Elway was quiet at halftime and no way John doesn't call down to the bench by 4th qrt screaming for Fox to blitz more and get someone else to cover Hilton. It was one of two things here IMO either Fox didn't take Luck seriously enough like Elway did or Fox knew he was on the way out and did the passive/aggressive thing and just chose not make adjustments indirectly 'flipping the bird' to Elway and he will do it his way come hell or high water. After it was all over we got to see Fox's passive/aggressiveness against Elway unfold with his NFL gossip buddy and attention whore Jay Glazer and their relationship and how all that unfolded which really exposed the rift between Elway and Fox.

This is a LOT of speculation.

It is to some small degree. Good sources behind the scenes close to the team. Just sayin;)

It doesn't matter. It would be dumb for Elway to fire the entire Bronco's staff and bring in a new system with a 39 year old QB. Either he knows that Manning plans to retire or he's forcing him out.

I can all but guarantee that Kubiak wasn't hired to learn Manning's system and call plays for him for a year, then go back to his system in 2016.

He and Elway aren't that dumb.

....... So you're saying Manning won't be a Bronco in 2015?

I would be shocked if Manning was the starting QB for the Broncos in 2015.

This makes a lot of sense.

I'm really happy for them prayers* damn emogis or whatever you kids call them nowadays thanks for giving us the Western... I've lost my train of thought on this one a /help me out I'm Michael Scotting it

That's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it works out for them.

Kubiak?

http://i60.tinypic.com/dcy2hc.jpg

Kubiak has 3 winning seasons in 8 with one playoff victory.

Elway fires Fox in an effort to find "championship experience." He hires a head coach with a career .488 winning percentage and that has never made a conference title game. Hmm.

When the best qb you've ever drafted is Jay Cutler... That's a pretty poor qb drafting record. Not that ours is better, but they've never proven they can draft an elite qb either.

He was a first time coach, in year 5 of an expansion team...

Lots of guys fail their first time through as a HC. I don't think he's viewed as being the savior, walking through the door.

Paint it however you like...

Trade for an Elway after the draft, or be lucky enough to suck so bad that at the #1 overall pick you land Manning, then Luck.

Seems more likely that Elway just wants a puppet/yes-man who obediently follow his every command.

Ding Ding ding!


We have a winnah!!! :)

Kubs was hired for 2016 QB choice
 

Peyton will learn Kubiaks zone offense. Peyton has already shown humility in learning to abandon his offense for a run first offense. This give the donks Peyton in 2015 and Kubs/Elway get one year to determine whether they need to resign Brock or draft a QB in 2016.

This is bad news for Chiefs fans. I was hoping for a big broncos slump after Peyton left in 2016. But if Kubs can develop Brock into a good QB, we may have real problems with Denver for a long time. Elway is looking long term with this hire.

Looks like they made it official.

He traded for Matt Schaub... I don't understand why people think Elway's backup will pose a threat to us. I'm thrilled this was the hire, if it were Gase I would've been more afraid than fuggin Kubiak.

He is, at worst, a more aggressive version of John Fox that is better at calling plays.

I am wondering if they brought in Vance Joseph to interview for HC as a pretense to really interview him for DC.

Brock Osweiler is not a good QB.

He didn't know how to throw a ball in college.

But wasn't that Rivers' M.O. coming out of NC State..?

I haven't seen anything impressive from him, honestly. He's big, he's tough and he has decent arm strength. He just looks incredibly raw every time I see him do anything. College highlight videos, preseason with the Broncos, the very rare snaps he gets in mop up duty. The guy behind him, Dysert, has shown more flashes of competence. It was only in preseason but I saw him make all the throws, place the ball well, throw well on the run, move well in the pocket, read Defense a little bit. Unless Oz has stuff I don't see I think Dysert beats him out in a fair competition. I don't know though. Extremely small sample size.

Kubiak seems like a solid enough hire. For me the best news in all of this is that it appears that Elway is wanting to move on from Manning. If he thought Peyton could deliver the goods in 2015, no way would he blow up the whole coaching staff and bring in an offensive-minded HC with a new philosophy.

Of course Manning can "learn" Kubiaks zone scheme and qb movement offense. Problem is, he can't execute it. In order to use a zone scheme with lots of effective cut back lanes for the back, the qb MUST be able to be fairly mobile and able to at least sell the idea of a bootleg, or a strong flow to one side of the offense. Manning simply can't do that physically. Not to mention, guys running that sort of offense take lots of hits. For that reason, I just don't see Manning coming back. Kubiak isn't running the same offense that they had last season, with Manning being one year older, and one or two of their top four receivers leaving either.

I think the hire is so so. Osweiler isn't the type of guy that can run Kubiaks offense either I'm guessing, so look for either Manning to return at basically run the same short middle and screen stuff they ran this season, while they look for a new qb, or look for them to draft a guy or look for a free agent guy to run the new offense till they find the elway type they will be looking for.

As far as Kubiak, I never thought he was a particularly good coach. He had Schaub in his prime, with Andre Johnson, a solid running game, and a solid D, and he couldn't ever do shit. There is a BIG difference between X's and O's guys and real leaders of men. He's an X's and O's guy.

You don't hire the "Kub" to run Manning's anything.

He's gone.

If anything a WCO would without a doubt benefit 5-head but I see no way he just signs on.

Elway is FORCING THIS...

Also, you have to look at history with this sort of thing. Take for example Rat Shannahan. Check out his record with a first ballot Hall of Fame qb in Elway, vs his record without him. Same for Kubiac. Any numbnuts can win with Elway, Manning, Brady in their prime. Denver doesn't have that anymore. This smells like a fail for Kubiak to me.

Kubiak also essentially chose Matt Schaub over the opportunity to try to sign Peyton Manning:

Last week from Mike Florio:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...eyton-manning/

Manning at age 39 is going to learn how to be mobile?

Explain.

He'll get the **** out...

I think denver wants Fivehead to retire so they don't have to pay him $20 mil to be a shell of himself. If they wanted manning back, they would have hired Gase

This.

He's out...

Kubiak didn't trade for anyone. The owner gave Rick Smith the approval to trade for Schaub.

Also, Kubiak did something in the past five years in Houston that no coach or team has been able to do in KC for more than 20 years: Win a playoff game.

Actually, he won two.

Alex Smith can be had for the right price and would fit the bootleg offense quite well.. 2 firsts?

Both playoff wins against the Cincinnati Bengals… one of only two franchises that has a longer playoff winless drought than the Chiefs.

LMAO and CMAO yes Crying...oh noz.

When I think of Kubiak when he was with the Texans I think of running the football first and foremost with the pass coming from the run, followed by playing good defense. Run first is not Manning.

The take away here is that this seems like a wash, At best, of a hire.... So it had to be personal with elway and fox or Peyton.....

I'll worry about Kubiak when I find out who his QB is.

I can't believe people are saying that Manning is so immobile that he can't run a bootleg PA. The entire point of the bootleg is that the RB and all of his blockers are moving laterally in one direction, and the QB, after faking the handoff, is moving the other direction. Literally anyone can outrun people who are running the opposite direction.

Will Manning be back? I don't know, but I do know that him not being able to run Kubiak's offense is a stupid reason for him to be gone.

Manning is a pocket passer. He's 39 years old with four neck fusions. The last thing he'll want to do is be met head on by linebackers and defensive ends while rolling out. That would be foolish.

The main reason why he's had success is due to his quick release while protected in the pocket. You take that away from him, especially coupled with his weakened arm and poor mobility, he's not even close to being the same QB.

I highly doubt Peyton Manning is ever going to agree to run any offense other than the Peyton Manning offense ... the only reason he did it this year is because he clearly knew he was too injured to even run it himself, as evidenced by his arm strength being rendered to that of a high school freshmen.

From last year.... Reaching.....

How about a run heavy version of the West Coast Offense?

Peyton is a rhythm passer, he always has been.

If he can't run the no huddle Peyton offense he's known for, hang them up

He runs no huddle, slow huddle and huddle.

The first half of the 2012 season McCoy had him running a very conventional, slow, huddle-up offense. I don't think Manning is as adverse to running offenses he isn't used to as people seem to think.

I think he he is willing to do whatever he thinks will work.

Let's see him do that 10-15 times a game over the course of a 16 game season at age 39.

Christ! That was over a year ago.

Troll, much?

10-15? Where did you get that number?

In 2012, Schaub had a total of 147 play action passes (9 per game). That includes both bootlegs and conventional play action. There's no way Peyton would be bootlegging 10-15 times per game.

That play works great when you need one yard. and there are no receivers lined up outside the box. Line a CB and LB up to either side and he gets his head knocked off. Your use of that play to try to explain that Manning can run a bootleg is hilarious.

Okay, nine times per game. There's no way Manning makes it through Week 3.

More like 3-5 times a game.

Go look at how many times Elway ran a season in the mid-to-late 90's. That's the goal Elway is shooting for. He's trying to build the team that got him two Super Bowl wins.

48 times a season at minimum and 80 at maximum?

Come on, guys, we're talking about a 39 year old immobile statue. Once defenses see that on film and recognize it from the line of scrimmage, Manning is toast.

He'll end up on IR before the halfway mark.

If you follow the conversation, I was using that example to show that Peyton has the physical capability to get outside the tackle box when the play fake is directed the other way.

Are you saying the CB or LB would not stay with the receiver if Peyton moved laterally? Sounds like an easy completion to me.

Peyton isn't going to run a bootleg offense. Too dumb to even discuss.

Bootleg offense?

Alex Smith is his man.

We'll take 2 2nds.

Yeah, I don't see Manning doing a lot of bootleg runs like the video Hef posted. I'm talking plays where he keeps it by design and rolls then either hits a limited number of targets, throws it away or keeps rolling out of bounds depending on where he is relative to the LOS. I could see that that happening 3-5 times a game. What I would picture from Manning is a fake handoff with strong run action from the O-Line. The he turns in the pocket and throws it to an open guy once the Defense is fooled.

What you're describing is Kubiak's bootlegs. Schaub was in no way a running QB. Peyton actually has more yards per game on the ground in his career than Schaub does.

Right. That's what I'm thinking. The kind of plays we ran with Elway his last few years.

seriously? It was for one yard. Any moron can run a naked boot for one yard once every couple of years. It was a great play call. Yes, he ran outside the tackle for one yard (what will be two years ago this coming season) when the entire D lined up all 11 men inside the tackles on a play fake. That play is not happening anywhere else on the field first off, secondly, if he needed more than three or four yards, the D would have had an outside backer, a CB or two, a safety, and a D end that didn't immediately crash down, and Manning would have been killed. That play simply doesn't show that Manning can run Kubiaks offense any more than me lining up and doing the same thing would show that I could. FFS

Same guy who passed up running for an easy first down in the Divisional round this season....

Yeah and that scrapped it in game 4 after starting 1-2 and then falling behind by like 20 ... Peyton then went back to Peyton offense and, well, you know

We couldn't run the ball.