How so?

http://i.imgur.com/yBThbah.jpg

Never forget.

Go get another one.

In the three full seasons that he played, he had 3 Pro Bowl and 1 first-team All-Pro.

Assuming he never plays another snap, he certainly didn't live up to his draft slot and rookie pay scale slotting; but to say he's overrated or average is pretty silly. When healthy, he was anywhere from good to elite.

He's overrated, period, especially by ChiefsPlanet.

Take a look at Deron Cherry's numbers. He destroys Berry and it isn't even close.

Again, he's more Jerome Woods, who was also a first rounder and Pro Bowler, than Cherry.

They drafted Morse high and immediately plan to move him to center. It sure seems to me they want Morse to be the long term starter. Worst case scenario, you force a camp battle with kush and Myers and Morse and let the best man win.

What numbers? INT totals? Cherry's INT totals shit on Earl Thomas', who's been placed in a much more favorable position to rack up INTs playing center field since day 1, as well. Is Earl Thomas more Jerome Woods than Deron Cherry?

Cherry played 7 full seasons. 6 Pro Bowls and 3 first-team All-Pros. Berry played 3 full seasons. 3 Pro Bowls and 1 first-team All-Pro.

But they've played Berry at SS practically the whole time. If he was back ball hawking I'm sure he'd have a lot more INTs.

Hooker and blow!

You take it back, Dane! Take it back right now!

Morse is gonna play guard this year. At least until Kush flames out and they think Morse no longer sucks at snapping the ball.

Bank on it.

Earl Thomas is a better safety than Woods and if the Chiefs could re-draft, I'd bet they'd take Thomas over Berry.

Pro Bowls are popularity contests. Deron Cherry was a complete player and a game changer. How many games have you watched in which Berry changed the outcome of the game?

Furthermore, the Chiefs just had their best season against the pass in two decades, yet Berry was mostly invisible and outplayed by Ron Parker.

Sucks that he had a foot injury then the cancer last year. Seemed with the regime change he was really taking off in 2013 being it his best year as a pro.

Well duh! Thomas is still playing and Eric Berry has cancer.



That's tough to answer but the guy had 3 TDs in a relatively short career, neutralized some great TEs, and always seemed to be around the ball.

And duh! Berry had ****ing cancer!!!

Also that they were planning on having him play deep more. Hopefully he recovers though, tough situation

Berry was complete as well. He was one of the best run stopping and pass rushing safeties in the league while also being, as I've highlighted earlier in this thread, very good in coverage. People just remember when he got abused by Gates and some others in his rookie season and latch onto those memories.

For God's sake, we had the guy playing CB in 2013. Dude played LB, FS, SS, and CB. He was a stud.

Cancer aside, Dude

It would be nice to have his athleticism at deep safety with the current t defense though.

That's not really comparing apples to apples. We used Berry more similarly to the way the Hawks use Chancellor and his responsibilities are entirely different from Earl Thomas'.

But I could field that argument.

It doesn't say much to your argument, though. Earl Thomas is probably the best safety of the post-Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu generation. Saying we may have drafted him over Berry isn't really a slight on Berry.

That's why I miss Berry so much. We were supposedly moving him back deep more. I was excited to see what he can do because he can cover well and make plays on the ball. (Sideline INT in SD a couple years ago).

It's a game of number$....and a great safety vs. a very good safety doesn't really matter as much as other positions. Its a terrible allocation of funds. If they are a liability (Lewis) it matters though.

I never liked picking a safety @ #5 and still dont. Berry was good...but wasn't even close to an Ed Reed type. He seems like a good dude..so my opinion is nothing personal.

He wasn't used like Ed Reed. Thus, the comps aren't fair.

Nobody in their right mind spends a #5 pick on a SS...and pays them 60 million. He was drafted to be the next Ed Reed.

Like I said in a previous post...why was Sutton using him like he was?

This solidifies what I stated in my initial comment: Eric Berry is overrated.

He's a fine player and appears to be a good person. But his salary has never been justified and he's not a game changer on the field.

It wasn't just sutton, crennel used him like that too. I don't know why. I've always questioned it.

Alright, I found some stats on the 2013 season. Anyone that remembers that year, we damn near had Berry cover the other team's TE exclusively. Here are some of the big names and numbers they put up with Berry blanketing them:

Jason Witten: 8 targets 3 catches 12 yards 0 TDs

Brent Celek/Zach Ertz: 5 targets 2 catches 18 yards 0 TDs/1 target 1 catch 5 yards 0 TDs

Delanie Walker: 6 targets 4 catches 43 yards 0 TDs

Jordan Cameron: 4 targets 4 catches 81 yards

Scott Chandler: 9 targets 3 catches 26 yards 0 TDs

Julius Thomas: 5 targets 3 catches 43 yards 1 TD

Antonio Gates: 8 targets 3 catches 21 yards 0 TDs

Coby Fleener: 3 targets 2 catches 8 yards 0 TDs

Bro, check those stats I just posted.

He basically took every TE we faced off the field. He changed the complexion of those games without it showing up on his stat sheet. Not to mention the fact that he did that while adding 2 INT return TDs and 3.5 sacks. He changed a hell of a lot in games.

An INT returned for a TD has to be worth, like, 2 INTs that weren't returned for a TD

Well..then it makes Pioli that much more of a reerun. He drafted a $60 million SS...so both Sutton AND Crennel played him out of position? Somethings not right with this scenario..

Overrated is over the top IMO considering how he is used. He was also damn good at how he was used also. Eric Berry isn't overrated.

Agreed. Does it surprise you? Pioli is the ****ing anti-Christ. He's a POS, who still somehow gets praised for what any average dickhead would've done while he was here.

I just want to see Berry playing more of a FS role for one full, albeit healthy, season.

Dat Tennessee INT TD do!

He most definitely was over-paid...by like $30 million dollars though. Not his fault on that..drafted too high and rookie scale was out of whack.

I dont have an issue with Berry..I have an issue with paying him almost 12 million dollars last season. He's worth about half that.

Ya, not his fault. That was the old ****ed up CBA where all the top 10 contracts were ridiculously inflated. Would you of rather had Russell Okung?

I don't care "how he was used", he wasn't a game changer. He wasn't worthy of $60 million and he's clearly overrated by fans.

I would.

Or Thomas. Or Joe Haden. Or Iupati. Or Maurkice Pouncy. Or Demaryous Thomas. Or Jared Odrick. And even Brian Bulaga.

A waiver wire pickup outplayed him last year.

Probably...yes. LT is more important. You just dont pay a rookie safety $60 million. He has to be the best in 10 years for you to break even. Pioli was looking for play-makers...but the risk was too high given the contractual obligations.

That's all in hindsight minus Okung, no one was taking Iupati a ****ing guard top 5. Or Pouncey. Or Thomas. Or Haden. Or ****ing Odrick or Bulaga. We had Carr and Flowers. So no need to take Haden. Earl Thomas was never going top 5.

John Dorsey would have taken Haden

Considering he was playing with a mass in his chest, that's not surprising. And crazy for you to say an argument.

We had Branden Albert.

Oh I'm ****ing sure he would have. That's a crazy ****ing what if. Have you talked to John Dorsey? So you know who he would've taken in that draft?

Haden plays a position of extreme importance and value. Haden was the best available athlete at #5 overall that year.

LT, Pass rushing OLB, CB. These are the three most important positions outside of quarterback.

Is it surprising to you that all three have been the Chiefs first round selections under Dorsey?

He's replacing guys. That's the plan. Fisher replacing Albert. Ford will be replacing Hali eventually and Peters will be replacing Smith (though I hope we keep Sean). Berry was absolutely the right pick at the time. No one knocked it. It was a consensus home run pick.

I wasn't a fan. I'm still not. While he's had "Pro Bowl" years with really bad teams, he's never been a game changer and he's far from being the best safety in Chiefs history, regardless of "where they played him".

He will always be a waste of a valuable resource, IMO, just like Tyson Jackson and Jonathan Baldwin.

You just dont give a rookie the highest contract at his position...in NFL history. It's stupid...you have like a 2% chance of it working to your advantage...probably less than that. It's not surprising that Pioli isn't a GM anymore...but he did draft Houston...so that saves him from wishing death on his family...barely.

So, now you're putting Berry into the TJax and Baldwin bust category? ROFL

Curse the old CBA not the team nor Berry.

:facepalm:

"Curse" the GM for not taking a position of value and giving that player $60 million.

I'm not even saying that at this point...I dont think KC needs him anymore. I thought that before he was diagnosed with cancer...and the fact nothing really changed when he left only confirmed what I thought. It not a matter if I like him as a person...I just see those dollars being used for positions that need improving.

Pioli deserves no credit for drafting Houston. It was ****ing asinine that he dropped out of the 1st round just for weed in the first place. We're damn lucky he made it through the entire 2nd round and even several picks in the 3rd.

Rodney Hudson was a good player, but you don't let a perfect player for what we needed in our 3-4 scheme just continue to drop like that.

I think all the NFL GMs met in secret after the 1st round in 2011 and had a glue sniffing party. There's no other way to explain Justin Houston falling to us in the 3rd round like that.

Might take a look at DE red Bryant. Depends on if you think he's just playing for a paycheck or is actually motivated. Kc had strong interest before he signed with the jags last year. Can dominate against the run and if willing to play n't and spell Poe he would be a nice pick up

The entire draft process has become asinine.

These guys are not only poked and prodded, asked to take outdated IQ tests along with butthole, power hungry GM's asking a battery of very personal questions but put on display like the Westminster Dog Show.

It's ridiculous.

is the wr james jones still unsigned? brandon lloyd is always fun to watch, that catch he made vs chiefs last year won the game for niners

evan mathis is a left guard, as is grubbs...who would move to the right side if he signed

greshman would be a boost at te, if healthy

In the Ryan defense, ss is arguably more important than fs so I understand why they kept him there. It just begs the question of why we fielded maybe out best defense in years with him off the field.

So Berry sucks, abortion parts for sale are okay, we're "killing" the planet, Obammy is a great President, and Alex Smith is going to "turn the corner" in his 30's.

CP, ladies and gentlemen.

:facepalm:

Yup. Pioli is an incompetent moron who was so egotistical it cost him his job

Because when you have a complete player, you use him as a complete player. Berry played the run and pass great. Playing him deep would kill his run stopping ability.

He wasn't Ed Reed, I don't know why some of you guys are saying that. He has never been the ball hawk Reed was and Reed was never the run stopper and tackler that he is. He's in between Reed and Polamalu. Plays the run better than Reed but also plays the pass better than Polamalu.

We've said Ed Reed because they were labeling him as that coming out.

Whoever was labeling him that didn't know what they were talking about. Berry is a guy you want in on the action. Put him at deep safety and you've taken him out of the action and negates a lot of what makes him special.

Uh, because the level of talent on defense now is better than any defense Berry has played on before? And because Sutton is better than Crennel.

The talent last year was arguably worse than in 2013.

I know you're not calling him a bust I wasn't saying that. I was just saying you're putting him in with TJax and Baldwin is stupid. Berry wasn't a waste of resources.

And good teams like the Seahawks and Bengals love it bc teams get too scared to take guys but they just don't give a **** and they work out for them.

pretty much this.

Roll it to next season.

Maybe it is.

But by and large, NFL teams are better at it than they've ever been. Most of the studies done recently have pointed to the outcome that a truly 'great' draft is almost purely blind luck and most of these teams over a long enough timeline end up having almost identical draft successes.

I don't recall what the theory is called anymore but it essentially says that as skill levels rise, the importance of luck becomes even greater. When everyone's playing their C game, someone can come out and play their B game, still win and good luck or bad luck won't matter. When everyone is highly skilled and playing their A games, well the only place to separate yourself is by getting lucky.

If we're not there already with the NFL draft, we're fast approaching it.

"Getting 3.5 yrs of good SS play from the #5 overall pick and $60 million is a disappointing return" = "Berry sucks"

CP, indeed.

If some of you assholes would simply speak to what is said vs. what you would like to argue about, perhaps the conversation wouldn't devolve into this sort of idiocy.

I would rather berry have sucked than what's happened. I feel like alot of it was out of his hands with the ACL injury, then the foot injury\cancer season last year after coming off an all pro 2013 where he seemed to be ascending into a perennial all pro. Coupled wth the fact that they were going to use him as more of a ballhawk.

Sucks. Hope for his sake he comes back strong. He's a super strong dude.

Unfortunately it is what it is with Berry. I. just hope that we see Fisher, Ford and Kush become good players this season.

Yeah - it's hard to say that any of this is Berry's fault. The guy's done nothing but bust his ass, be a leader and play his position well.

But playing SS well isn't worth the #5 overall and $60 million, that's all. Especially not when you've missed better than 1/3 of your career to date due to various maladies. Dane cited Mike Iupati as a guy he'd rather have - well to me that's equally disappointing. Even had we gotten 5 years of premium performance from Iupati, spending the #5 overall and $60 million on a G would have been disappointing. And it may STILL have been a better return than we got on the Berry pick.

Berry didn't choose to play SS. Berry didn't jake it out there. He didn't choose to blow out his knee, mess up his foot or get cancer. Nothing about 'Berry's tenure in KC has been disappointing' is an indictment on Berry.

It just is what it is. He's not been the difference making, impact player that I hoped we were getting there and the ROI on him hasn't been good at all.

Eric Berry was a SS starting off because our safeties as a whole ****ing sucked. It was either start Jon McGraw at FS and Berry at SS....or start Berry at FS and Reshard Langford at SS. That's the GM and the coaching staff's fault.

And anyone that didn't think Berry was a ballhawk....go back and look at his sophomore season at Tennessee before Kiffin showed up. 7 INTs and 2 of those for TDs. Then Kiffin shows up....realizes how much talent Berry has and moves him all around the field.

That's what sucks. I think this current staff saw that and had plans for him to be in a more explosive role last year.

He was really really ****ing good in 2013, then the ankle and cancer.

They've only said as much...

He as a stud as a freshman, too.

Yeah....if anyone should be blamed for not living up to his full potential.....it's Monte Kiffin and Romeo Crennel.

I prefer Parker.

I'll always believe that Berry should have been the next Brian Dawkins.

Again, does this account for our LBers? Abdullah?

Wasn't Abdullah covering TE's?

Saying berry isn't worth his contract but paying Iupati, a ****ing OG, is worth it, is just ****ing insane.