No he wouldn't. If he wants a pass rusher he will take Chubb at 1.

A more aggressive pass rushing defense WOULD improve the secondary. Dropping Houston into pass coverage is not how you help the pass defense. I'm almost of the mind that if they are going to continue to misuse him they might as well trade him. Not really, but it is frustrating to watch.

I understand this; however, I think the reason WHY it was happening was out of trying to band-aid a gaping wound.

I think if we can cover better in the secondary we'll see less of Houston in coverage.

Hali should be gone and Houston should be moved up to the line of scrimmage to replace Hali. Next year Houston should be in the backfield on virtually every play.

I say 'should' because we all know that Sutton is still here. Houston might play cornerback next year with Sutton making the calls.

We still need another pass rusher, if not 2 more.

Again, if you put pressure on the QB the secondary gets the help it needs. Taking your best pass rusher out of the pass rushing game and putting him into pass coverage is not a band-aid, it’s stupidity.

I would in a second...Houston isn't near the player he was and isn't worth his contract to be dropped into coverage because he doesn't have his rush burst anymore. Good teams know when to move on from stars and have been stars.

Hell-to-the-freek YEAH!!

I really hope Justin Houston isn't declining. Hard to judge his play last sseason.

His sacks were WAY down. The pressure overall he put on opposing QB's seemed to drop off across the board, but he didn't really have any help from anywhere else. Chiefs were one of the worst defenses in the NFL at applying pressure to the QB.

It'd be nice for him to get back to that dominating force he once was, I'm just afraid those days may be gone. Considering what he's making vs his "current" production it'd make sense to get away from his contract.

Right now he's making $$$ based on what he did in 2014 where had more sacks in that season alone than he's had collectively since then. He's been hurt, but you can't be productive when you're not on the field. He just turned 29, which means he probably has about 2-3yrs left of productive years, assuming last year's dropoff was just a fluke. If it's a sign of things to come, Chiefs are in a bit of trouble.

Houstons averaged 7 sacks a year since his 100 million $ contract . Boy, thats great value!

Would you trade Justin houston and our 2nd
 

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt...199700089.html

February 12, 2018

When the Chiefs trade Alex Smith to Washington for cornerback Kendall Fuller and a third-round pick in this year’s draft, they will save $15.6 million in salary-cap space.

The deal won’t be done until the first day of the new league year, which begins at 3 p.m. on March 14.

Will the Chiefs look at other cost-cutting measures, such as releasing players? USA Today’s Steven Ruiz thinks it’s possible. He ranked the top 25 NFL stars who could be cut during the offseason, and two Chiefs are on the list.

1. Justin Houston, OLB Chiefs ($15 million)

Houston has struggled to stay on the field and his production has slipped as a result. With the Chiefs looking to get younger on defense, Houston will have a hard time sticking around. He can still be a Pro Bowl level player if he can stay healthy.

0% chance we cut Houston this offseason.

I love you (you know that) but I don't think this is the case - I think Hoglet is looking at cap freedom here, and that was his agenda in this enigmatic thread.

You're probably correct....but I'd argue that the $20 million that KC is paying him is for the pre-injury, 22 sack version of Houston. That kind of money is reserved for "elite" players that take over games or shine in big moments...he's done that exactly once vs. Denver's terrible o-line. He graded out at #15 in PFF. Which is still good...but not someone irreplaceable.

$20 million buys you 2-3 very good to great FA players....if the Chiefs can move him, they should. IMO. In Dorsey's defense...nobody saw Parker inadvertently ruining his chance to be one of the greats.

Think of trading (dumping) Houston for Tyrann Mathieu/Sherman/ Talib AND Muhammad Wilkerson? Would you do it? That is strictly from a financial angle...Shit, a Sherman/Mathieu/Berry/Fuller/Peters back end would be amazing...

anyone who isn't either on some sort of rookie contract, or isn't outside of one or two years of a new contract, is expendable. aside from berry, he beat cancer :thumb: :D

Cleveland might be dumb but they are not that dumb.

Thing is what are you going to do with $20m just over pay on somebody else probably.

We will be moving on from two long time Chiefs. DJ and Hali. This is not the year to send Houston packing. Next season i would most likely trade him out of conference. Cutting him puts him on a division rival team most likely and that would be a mistake.

I would say put him in a position where he is not the teams best pass rusher, run defender and put in coverage so much. Get pieces around him.

Let him focus on rushing the passer

Well to start: you're not going to get any combination of Mathieu, Sherman, Talib and Wilkerson for $20m AAV. Even if you did, who's going to rush the passer?

We can't even entertain the thought of cutting Houston until next offseason. More realistically, unless he actually has a bad season, he'll be here until 2020.

I originally thought this was outlandish, but starting to think maybe so.

I also think we should do new cool uniforms.

I'd trade Bob Sutton for Mr. Irrelevant in the upcoming draft

Safeties need upgrading a great deal....and EB is gonna be 30yrs old coming off of a major injury.

Parker and Sorensen are both trash. Its good to know that the S talent in this years draft class is deep.

Chiefs need to look to upgrade in that dept. I mean really Chiefs need major upgrades at all levels on defense.

We need pass rushers. why would we trade houston

and this brings me back to my other points children.....dont....smoke....crack

Pretty good read further explaining why this would be a terrible move

http://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2018/...dea-by-chiefs/

That article was more about cutting Houston. The bottom of the article says that trading Houston would be better but only for a good offer. This thread is about trading Houston for a great offer.

Houston is not going anywhere but that article doesn't really apply. :)

That article was based on cutting Houston outright....which WOULD be stupid.

Houston is the 2nd highest paid OLB in 2018 ($20,600,000)...to put this in perspective, the 3rd highest, Chandler Jones, cost $5 million less ($15,500,000) and #4 (Ingram) is almost $7,000,000 less.

Houston has been a terrible return on KC's investment but still a very good player. He's getting paid like a generational talent and isn't. His salary is way out of proportion vs. his production on the field. He should be in the $13 million dollar range.

Houston is going to have a big year next year. Improved secondary, more speed on the field and more chances for him to actually rush the passer.

Plus next year is basically a contract year for him. Those seasons are undefeated.

This thread proves what I always thought, Hogguy's IQ is just a bit higher than his shoe size but not by much.

Heh, was just listening to Sirius and they brought this up saying if someone came along interested in Justin Houston the Chiefs would certainly listen.

I doubt we would get #4 in this scenario, but it would be fun having the pick before the broncos if they somehow miss out on Cousins. Could get a decent haul to trade down in the first if the right guys were still available at #4.

trade Houston and our 2nd for a 1st; and draft Vontae Mack.

I think a lot of you around here are way off on Houston. He hasn't been as bad as some some of you act.

I have really strong feeling that he's going to be an absolute terror in 2018 once he is 100%, mentally.

I feel like Houston and Berry feed off of each other too.
It's an unspoken struggle to show alpha status.

Wait, so trading Houston doesn't unload the full 20m of his contract? Obviously cutting him would incur a cap hit. Can someone explain why a trade wouldn't?

Yeah, that don't make sense. If you trade a player you're trading the contract with them is what I understand.

I still think it would be great to get the #4 if Denver hasn't signed a QB in FA go ahead and get the best QB on the board and trade him to someone else and grab a bunch of picks. ****ing Denver over like that would be awesome.

Trading a player trades away his base salaries and incentives not earned yet.

The trading team is still on the hook for the prorated portion of what’s already been paid out.

So Hog and I had it right...

Yup...most of that is the pro rated signing bonus that is spread out over the term of the deal.

Next up Justin houston

$13 million in dead money if you trade Houston.

Not happening.

Yes. Draft the best CB out there.

This is just as stupid now as it was then.
We don't clear up $20M in cap space. We end up with almost $8M in cap space. Then that would have to be reinvested to replace him. The Browns will never give up the #4 for this insanity anyway.
Just let it go.

This trade would have made more sense to me than Marcus Peters. At least Houston is in a spot where he's underperforming and costing us a ton of money.

I would do this in a second, since I don't think Houston is an impact player anymore.

But Dorsey probably feels the same way and is definitely not going to trade a top 5 pick when his cupboard is so bare, for a declining player.

The Justin Houston issue sucks.

The Chiefs are trapped into his monsterous contract. He's being horribly overpaid for something he did in 2014 and hasn't done a whole hell of a lot since, let's be honest.

And I get that being an OLB isn't just about sacks. But he's also not being paid $100M for being a quality run stuffer who sets the edge on his side, either. For what he's being paid, Houston needs to avg about a sack/game. 21 sacks in 3 yrs since his contract extension. And yes he was inj and didn't play, but you can't be productive if you're not on the field.

What sucks even more, is that I think Justin Houston is declining. Could be due to his knee, I dont know what the excuse is. But his production is dropping. It'd be sure nice if Dee Ford was worth a shit.

Yep, don't really care anymore. Trade anyone not named Berry, or Mahomes, and just play for 2020.

If you could offload him now for a 1st this year I would do it. Saves you 8 mill. JH is done, guy isn't the same after injury plus way overpaid. I agree, makes more sense tome to do this than MP trade. I won't be surprised if this isn't still on the table.

Nobody is going to give up a first for a player who’s “done”

Houston and Peters for Donald and Quinn! /ArrowderpPride

Probably right but there's always exceptions out there. Many did't think we would have gotten as much for AS. Anyway maybe its not a 1st, maybe a 2nd idk but I don't think its outrageous to move him.

Well better postpone the party.

"Mahomes is going to have growing pains and not compare to a 10 year vet"/pawnmower/SNR

Be crazy to think the organization thinks he is ready and capable of playing the QB position. I am anxious to see Mahomes rip through the league.

I don’t think you could get a 3rd or maybe anything for him. They’d be Osweilering his contract for us.

Houston is not done, the dude has zero help and a ****ing dumbass defensive coordinator who drops him back into coverage. The guy should be rushing the passer 100% of the time.

I just don't think he's ever going to be the 22 sack guy we paid for.

I am all for giving this a try

I'm afraid I've got some bad news.

I think the "houston in coverage" thing is a little overblown. I just don't think he is productive on the opportunities he does get anymore.

9.5 sacks is a respectable year for a pass rusher. Especially a pass rusher with no help on the otherside, and who drops in coverage more than other OLB

O rly?

http://www.goerie.com/storyimage/PA/...-170119526.jpg

I didn't say he never did. This play absolutely pissed me off yes. I don't think there aren't other problems with the scheme. I am just saying I wouldn't hate it if we moved on.

I mean think about it. The excuses made for JH being in coverage was because a lack of secondary talent. We just shipped out or best CB lol. This means JH is going to be even less used in pass rush with this logic right?

Well since that was his best year and tied for 2cd all time for single season record which is 22.5 that should not be or have been the sole reason to sign him to that deal. Strahan only had two other seasons of 15 or more sacks. Any reasonable person knew he would not hit that mark again.

This is a very dumb comment. How many people have 22 sack seasons, much less multiple ones. He was about as productive as Von and Mack this year....

Sutton probably thought he would get there again. That's why he dropped him back in coverage on the final play of the season.

Well, would the Chiefs have paid him that massive contract only because of that year? because he did and they signed him to it right after I’d just have to assume so or it had much to do with it. Had he not achieved such a number do we know for sure he gets the same contract? Since they waited to sign him until he did I guess we’ll never know.

Dumb to not think it had anything to do with it. Get ****ed.

I dont understand why this defensive scheme doesnt play to matchups. Everyone is always ****ing locked on "their" side of the field. Houston needs to play on whichever side of the line has a weak link. Him being on the right side was okay when Hali was still good. They need to get this guy over to the ****ing strong side once in a while, where the QB cant see him coming.

$20 million per year good?

If you only look at sacks?

No.

If Houston was terrible in coverage (which he was doing far too much this year and by no fault of his own) and he's not, or he was terrible in run support (which he's not,) perhaps then you'd have a point.

Has he lost a step?

I'd say he has.

Is he still strong/athletic enough to toss a RT aside like a rag doll?

Yup.

He's a freak of nature. He has explosive power. He was minimized because our DC was using him to mask other weaknesses (and this I completely disagree with.)

Houston generally plays on the strong side and they do move him across the OL to exploit matchups.

Thank you for letting us all know you don't know what the **** you're talking about.

Houston was far more productive when Dee Ford was healthy bc Ford was at least a player teams had to be aware of. Zombo was basically just an orange cone out there.
Seriously watch the Eagles game. When you have multiple pass rushers able to gain attention of the OL, you get someone with a 1x1 matchup.

The guy is still a double-digit caliber pass rusher.

Getting Robert Quinn would have been a massive boost to this defense and Justin Houston. Really wish we could have landed that guy.

Cap space?