^this^

I think that was out of necessity. It seems to me that what Veach has said rather loudly in this offseason is that we needed to get younger, faster, and more aggressive.

Would start on most good defenses

Berry
Hitchens
Jones
Houston
Fuller

Solid defenders

Ragland
Sorensen
Ford
Bailey

Looking to prove they can reach potential

Kpassagnon
Speaks
Nnadi
Amerson
Williams
Watts

Our second team defense is better than the 2003 starting defense.

I can’t believe this comparison is even being made.

Warfield
Bartee
Mccleon
Browning
Sims
Bell
Hicks
Holliday
Maslowski
Woods
Wesley
Fujita

Fujita and Woods were the only guys on that defense that were even solid.

Sutton D is good at keeping the other team out of the end zone when it is firing on all cylinders, but it is ridiculously flawed in getting the most potential out of the players on the field. I read a fantastic article on the athletic about Justin Houston, his performance, and how he was utilized and it just disgusted me. Houston is absolutely Elite and Sutton is the only thing holding him back from being an absolute terror.
All that said, with the offenses potential, keeping the other team out of the end zone may be the only thing that's needed to dominate the f****** League

Sorensen - no. He's a backup.
Ford - no. He belongs in the "prove his potenital" group.
Bailey - maybe. He WAS a solid player. Last year he was....not much. He looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

There is much, much more talent on this defense, and while Sutton should've been fired, Greg Robinson was worse.

They need to get back to an emphasis on turnover creation. Remember the 90's?

As mediocre as Sutton is at times, he's still better than Robinson. Reid is also a better all-around Head Coach than Vermeil was.

Yeah! Remember all those playoff wins?
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We just didn't generate enough turnovers in those games.

Or field goals.

While points allowed is a key stat, it is not everything. Time of possession and yardage are still important factors. I'd be curious to see those rankings for all of the seasons Sutton has been here. 2016 was a good defense as far as getting turnovers, but what happens in a game when your defense isn't getting turnovers? Sure, they held the Steelers to 18 points, but the Steelers held the ball for quite a bit of time during that game and didn't allow our offense to get into much of a rhythm. And don't get me wrong, I still mostly blame Alex Smith for that shit show.

And while Sutton may not be anything great, he is not bad. And nowhere near as bad as Greg what's his name. Not to mention the talent is much greater on this team than Vermeil's defenses. You'd have to be a moron to believe this defense will be as bad as that 2002 Chiefs team. Personally, I think this defense is going to surprise people and be better than expected, ranking 15-20 in yardage.

I seem to remember Wesley being decent. Fujita was okay but I don't remember him doing a whole helluva lot while with the Chiefs. I think he went on to have mild success elsewhere (Saints/Cowboys?). Sims was a huge bust. And that had to be the worst trio of CBs of all time.

Sutton was a part of the Rex Ryan defensive philosophy, no? That ain't bend-but-don't-break.
I would think that we had some talent deficiencies here that prevented anything else AS WELL AS a low scoring offense for several of the seasons. So you can't take chances really, because the offense can't respond. So, you end up playing conservatively on both sides.

Not saying that's the whole story, but played a part. Last year, injuries and age just tanked the talent level and we got exposed.

I'm not sure how much more you can revamp the starting 11 in one offseason than we have. I bet it's a lot better.

Time of possession had largely been in the Chiefs' favor probably up until this season.

As for yardage, this defense has never really done a good job limiting yards. I think Reid and Sutton viewed it as a tradeoff between yardage and points allowed the past couple of years given some of the JAGs we've had to start throughout the unit, particularly in the secondary.

I think you can criticize it as being overly cautious, particularly when we got into the playoffs, but it's very possible that Sutton was actually maximizing the defense's contributions to winning games given some of the holes in the roster they had to endure.

I thought Sutton should have been fired, but I'm not irate that he was kept aboard, and for the moment I'm going to be pretty patient to see how they change things up and improve.

If RBs and WRs are still racking up career days against us, and if Sutton is continuing to hold players like Houston back from being aggressive, then I'll re-join the angry townspeople with torches and pitchforks.

A big difference is we’re going to have a qb who keeps his eyes down field, and isn’t afraid to pull the trigger on a big play instead of running into a sack. Mahomes is surely gonna crush our hopes and dreams sometimes with a interception, and likely at a bad time in the playoffs. But he’s capable of the other side of that coin too. He will likely win us some games with his arm, and playmaking abilities. I’m both playoff games you mentioned, we sputtered badly in the second half on offense. In either of those games a single score would have won it for us. But our old qb couldn’t handle that pressure with the game on the line. When we got into those situations be it regular season or post season, I never had faith that Alex would lead us back once the lead was gone. You could just see it in his mannerisms. Impossible to say if Mahomes can overcome what Alex couldn’t, but at this point we only have hope that he can.

Ditto👍

#PeteThings

Defense still looks soft and doing the same shit. No push, playing way off of WR's. I know it's just pre-season game #1 but some things just need to be evident all the time. Things like push at the line are something we need to see all the time from our 1's & 2's

Vermeil 2.0 ? Didn't we have a HOF o-line ? How does our current o-line compare to Vermeil 1.0:D

I think you're taking that a bit too literally. The point is we are going to be all offense, no defense.

Too literally ? Roaf,Shields and Waters ? All offense ? Nothing personal here but you did see our o-line tonight, correct? How do they compare with Vermeil 1.0 ? Mahomes will be lucky to make it through the season. Texans didn't even have Watt.:rolleyes:

We're soooooo ****ing there. Sutton is a ****ing moron. That's why Andy loves him.

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No because the offense will just be slightly less terrible than the defense.

Sutton's, "bend before you break", and, "stay bent" systems both suck. He's just stuck with players who bend in a lite breeze.

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Why do you guys think this offense will be great? Did you watch the o line.

This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.

unless harrison returns in the post season, fisher will have a great year :D

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson. :D

Anytime you score 44 points and lose, the defense gets 70% of the blame, atleast. The reason no one felt safe with a 38-10 lead is because the defense was trash. Remember the Oakland game? 35-10 lead glcut to 35-31. Alex Smith and Jamaal Charles baled is out in that one

ha.

Depends on the personnel, ya know?

When Ryan was in Buffalo, his defense was 'suck-but-don't-bend'.

What Oakland game? Where at and what year? There's two a year.

I remember the @Oakland game last year where the refs kept throwing flags for defensive penalties for untimed down after untimed down until the Oakland offense scored.

The rules favor the offense.

****, the Steelers scored 40-some in a playoff game, LOST, then fired their OFFENSIVE coordinator.

Should have scored 50.

It's 2018 in the NFL, the defenders aren't allowed to touch the QB or the WRs.

Score more points.

He's not a gladiator (either)...

2013 at Oakland I believe. When Charles taunted the Black Hole and scored like 5 TD's.

Oh yeah, that was classic.

This is what pisses me off the most about our defense. Playing 10 yards off every damn time. The offense just calls the same play every time. AND IT WORKS!

It wouldn't be so bad if the CB didn't drop yet another 10 when the ball is snapped. That makes come-back routes almost automatic. When the ball is snapped, the WR just has to run straight for about 5 yards and our CB will be 20 yards off an no one around the WR to stop an easy 8-9 yard throw.

Our CB's have been doing this during Sutton's entire tenure.
It's lame and teams know how to beat it. We got lucky one year by leading the league in turnovers (Thanks Marcus Peters).

Sutton is still the biggest liability on this team.

Bumping for the obvious...

We are looking at Vermeil 2.0

All offense, no defense

Run blocking could use some improvement all around, but pass protection have been pretty solid overall.

Even Erving appears to be playing decently. I haven't heard his name (that I recall) that he got flagged for holding or false start in the last two games, so that's usually a good sign.

We are there... Right down to 2018 Greg Robinson.

Sure seems like it

Maybe the league will figure us out, but right now this offense is even more unstoppable than 2003/2004.

hmmm, I seem to recall someone else stating this fact prior to the start of the season...