I haven't seen PB take a contrarian position like this in a long time.

It makes me long for 2013-2014. Good times.

I don't know about bible studies but is there any question Matheny lost the clubhouse? I think that's pretty widely accepted. How many times have the Cardinals sacked a manager midseason? Dude had multiple playoff appearances and a winning record this year and they still fired him. That's the most un-Cardinals like move you could think of. And the only thing he said in response to the buzz around the clubhouse was that the game had gotten too soft.

In other news...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Royals will have the first pick in Round B of the competitive balance lottery in the 2019 draft (had Round A last year). Right now that pick is set for 71st overall but will move higher/lower based on free agent signings up until possibly draft day.</p>&mdash; Shaun Newkirk (@Shauncore) <a href="https://twitter.com/Shauncore/status/1064770720813801472?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Royals announced they&#39;ve added RHPs Arnaldo Hernandez, Josh Staumont and Scott Blewett to the 40-man roster, protecting them from next month&#39;s Rule 5 draft. Blewett appeared to take a big step in the Arizona Fall League. The 40-man roster is full right now.</p>&mdash; Rustin Dodd (@rustindodd) <a href="https://twitter.com/rustindodd/status/1064972544397127681?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 20, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Looks like PB should have a look in the Cardinals thread.

Saw that.

Wonder if he has looked yet? He is just going to argue that there aren't any quotes from anyone. He's going to have to hear it come straight from Mathenys mouth, otherwise it's just false accusations.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[breath]

.........HAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHANAHANAHA!

Don’t blame us. We warned ya. Yelled it from the rooftops. Prepare for some bible study favorites, and shitty vets playing over young players. And burning out your young arms and bullpen mismanagement.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have hired Mike Matheny as a Special Advisor for Player Development.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1066044085989974018?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

****

Why are you guys questioning the Bible study stories? It wasn’t a secret. Players talked about it openly to the press. They held meetings in the clubhouse. There is no debate. It happened and was still happening when he was fired. Just google it for crissakes.

:doh!:

To be fair, only one person has been questioning the bible study stories.

And that person hasn't been seen around here in awhile.

I’ve been one of the strongest Moore defenders here and elsewhere.

That’s over the second that ignoramus Matheny is named manager, which I fully expect.

Teams in the middle of a rebuild, with a model that will depend on young players being grown and established at the major leagues, have no business hiring a guy with Matheny’s track record.

He is the exact opposite of developing young players. He doesn’t just not develop players, he reeruns their development by playing vets and not even talking regurally with the young players on their plYing status. You couldn’t possibly hire someone worse.

Dont listen to these naysayers. Matheny did a great job with the Cardinals.

Yeesh....

I'm not a big fan of this move, at all.

No he ****ing did not.

This is ****ing awful. **** you, Moore!

I beg to differ.

Cite/explain your evidence then.

Seasons 2015 and beyond.

jesus christ. Oh, wait...

Next up is Faith and Family Night every weekend and Bible readings after the third inning.

Not enough sufficient evidence.

Let me rephrase. Cite/source your evidence by using more than a paragraph.

He’s a Cubs fan, he’s trolling you guys. :facepalm:

I guess that all depends on how you look at it.

The results speak for themselves and it's all great.

If you need further explanation ask DJ or BRC.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/sT62ObVC4Q2m4" width="480" height="360" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-sT62ObVC4Q2m4">via GIPHY</a></p>

The ****? How.... why.... :shake:

How much do you have to suck at your job before you don't get hired again?

Great. Moore hires a guy seemingly because of his devote faith in God and nothing more.

:facepalm:

Matheny is going to be Moore's watch dog to see if anyone is watching porn.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/STLCards?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#STLCards</a> have Mike Moustakas on radar. The difference this year: no draft choice attachment. Rival Brewers, Moose’s most recent team, among others with possible interest.</p>&mdash; Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) <a href="https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1067240800017371136?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 27, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Makes sense for both. Cardinals need a third base and left handed bat. Moose is a good fit for Busch Stadium. Lefties do decent there.

Take this shit to the Cards thread.

............AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

{COUGH}{HACK}{WHEEZ}

.............HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

The Royals hired Matheny so it is a Cardinals thread.

I like Moore but some of his decisions...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Religious folks are a cancer.

Yeah..if Matheny becomes manager Illl give a shit then. If Ned Yost can go to back to back WS I guess anyone can though. The guy was "Matheny" here until that 2.5 year lights out run.

#tolerance

#strongerTogether

#imWithHer

Cancer should never be tolerated.

Take this shit to DC. ROFL

Speaking of cancer, hire Matheny as your manager and watch your next window die of an incompetent managerial cancer.

@Royals: We have claimed RHP Connor Greene off of outright waivers from the Cardinals. In a corresponding move, we have designated RHP Burch Smith for assignment.

Speaking of, Zobie's parent's sound like kinda dicks. https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...e41120313.html

Did anyone hear the interview with Moose this morning? He was on with Bob F. I just can't stand to listen to that guy. Did he say anything of note?

Nothing says awesome like given special treatment to believers over non-believers when running a ball club.

Matheny is a turd sandwich and Moore is lost.

Bubba officially a free agent...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We have non-tendered RHP Jason Adam, 1B Samir Dueñez, RHP Andres Machado and OF Bubba Starling ahead of tonight’s deadline. All four players become free agents.</p>&mdash; Kansas City Royals (@Royals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Royals/status/1068637417354289152?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whatever you guys have to do, fly a banner, make thousands of calls etc. do it to avoid Matheny being your new manager.

damn. the fanboy in me always wanted to see bubba patrolling the outfield.

sweet dreams, young prince. im not even going to look up who we could have had instead of you........

The Mariners are having a full-on fire sale and I don’t get it.

At least the returns they’re settling on.

They did pretty well in the swap with the Mets... but this Segura trade rumor doesn’t make sense to me.

Segura is 28 and a top 10 SS, with four affordable years left ... and they’re moving him for J.P. Crawford and taking on the last year of Carlis Santana to boot?

Can’t tell if they’re just off the reservation or what, but it doesn’t probably help the Merrifield trade return. He and Segura are similar offensive players, though Segura is much more expensive.

Seems like an owner forced fire-sale.

But at least when it comes to Segura, the word is from M's fans is that he's not on speaking terms with half of his locker room after that crazy, all-out brawl he had with Dee Gordon in the locker room this September. Feels like they're looking for a... "Marcus Peters" esque return to get him out.

It also might be telling that this will now be his fourth organization - he's starting to have some of the "weird" movement that Valencia had. Trades and DFA's that would happen in spite of solid production.

The Indians traded Yan Gomes to Washington. I'm curious what other trades they'll end up making. I completely agree with their strategy of trading off players and getting the rebuild started before everyone walks and the cupboard is bare. It's how you expedite the rebuild and avoid 5-7 years of building like we're forced to go through.

The Indians aren't coming off back-to-back World Series appearances and a WS Title.

I'm not surprised that you don't see the difference here though.

kcchiefsus was bitching during the WS runs. He is a complete waste of space.

What difference does that make? When freaking Matheny is our manager next year, you still going to be defending Moore with the same BS? Why is Dayton Moore beyond reproach around here? How long do we have to go before the WS win finally loses its luster, and Moore is finally judged on his performance since then (and performance in the draft even before the WS)?

They may move one of their front of rotation guys (Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer) but I don’t expect much else.

Gomes was expensive and they didn’t get much back in return at all. I don’t believe either of the prospects received made the Indians top 10 guys.

They’re also not doing a full tear down. They’re trying to selectively sell a few pieces here and there to shed payroll.

That may be to clear some payroll for a Lindor extension or extend their window... but they’re also not making moves that are going to allow them to close this window with a title unless something fluky happens.

So they’ll walk about with 5-6 division titles in a decade, with one WS appearance and no wins.

Wouldn’t trade two WS and a title for that, no matter what the rest of the decade shows.

He’s not beyond reproach. If/when he predictably elevates Matheny to replace Yost as manager, I don’t think any around here will avoid criticizing him.

In fact, as I’ve stated here in the past few weeks, it will run through the rest of the leash I’m allowing.

I’m willing to be patient and give some leeway and apply some context and understanding... but there is none that explains elevating Matheny.

He will throw games by playing bible study guys!


(Fan stupidity. Hitting an all time low)

Dude you got your ass kicked on this by Cards fans and then hid from this thread for a while. Probably best to let this one go.

Hey fuckface - show me exactly where I got "my ass kicked by Cards fans".


I just went thru this whole thread and didn't see jack shit. Put up or shut the f---up.

It doesn’t matter what his reasons were for overvaluing crappy veterans and giving them tremendous leeway and playing time at the expense of talented young players. He did it consistently.

Whatever the reason for that was, it also doesn’t change the fact Matheny was 1) the least effective manager at utilizing his bullpen; 2) abusive of his best bullpen arms to the point of overworking and ruining multiple guys

It doesn’t roll back that he was not liked by his players and had trouble connecting with them. That he had players he went months without communicating with except by text, that he was terrible with young players to the point of letting JAG vets like Bud Norris abuse young players like Hicks.

Dude, you can't say my "stupidity is at an all time low" by "voicing rumors that have never been proven", while multiple Cardinal fans have come in and talked about how the Bible Studies were confirmed by multiple beat writers.

I've let this kind of thing slide before. You repeatedly called me a dumb**** for predicting that James Shields would slip to "Guthrie like production" before 2016 and I never really took you to task about it.

Own up like you demanded Duncan do about Kennedy or let it go, man.

Go read the last three pages... it is very clear he played favorites. He held bible studies and those were his guys. Metheny is a bad manager and should be no where near a rebuilding team.

Don't know why you guys bother with him. He's not going to admit he's wrong. He will just keep doubling down.

Proof. Show me proof. I don't care what the bfibs said. Show me something tangible. Or admit it just doesn't exist.

Who? Who are these beat writers? I'm asking you (or whoever makes the claim) to show me. PD beat writer Derrick Goold specifically states the exact opposite:

If there's peer pressure, it's not readily apparent. If there's favoritism, it's not readily apparent, or it's a perception that doesn't last. If there's an insistence on between "goody-two shoes" ... well, that's just there's not. There's just not.

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/is-a...497a72ed3.html

Googled "mike matheny bible study" and clicked on the first link. It's an interview between Darrin Patrick, former Cardinals Chaplain, and Mike Matheny...

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/a...ood-and-faith/

That isn't in dispute^^^. The charge is that he allowed his faith to influence his roster decisions. And it's bullshit until someone shows proof.

You're putting some good DC spin on this, I'll grant you that. But you still have yet to explain if Matheny was so good... why did the Cardinals fire him midseason with a winning record?

You know why... he wrecked that clubhouse. You keep asking for proof. The proof is that one of the most image conscious organizations in the league chucked the guy because he lost the clubhouse.

So even though if a player that was confirmed in the study group was less productive than the guy on the bench that wouldn't be good enough for you? You need someone to link video of Matheny saying that he directly started a player because he prayed with him that day? ROFL

Name names.

I'm fairly confident Kolten Wong was in that group and was often in the starting lineup when he was just straight garbage. Specifically in 2016 when he had an OPS+ of 84 and Greg Garcia is sitting on the bench with a 108.

But you'd have to ask a Cardinals fan that's read the book. However, thats not good enough for you so w/e.

Just some light reading:


Mike Matheny lost the clubhouse and now he has lost his job


Long Known As a Bad Tactician, Mike Matheny Was Fired for Being a Bad Boss

Mike Matheny’s clubhouse sounds like a nightmare


Controversies catch up with Cardinals manager Mike Matheny

If Mike Matheny Loses Yadier Molina’s Loyalty, the Manager Is In Danger of Losing the Clubhouse

Hicks harassment was last straw for over-matched Matheny and his underachieving Cardinals

Cardinals Seek Culture Change With Removal Of Manager Matheny

Quick Hits: BenFred on STL sports
Aug 21, 2018

Rounding up the hot topics from columnist Ben Frederickson's weekly chat with fans of St. Louis sports.


COMMENTS: I got a sense that Mike Matheny started buying into this whole "leader of men" thing and viewing himself as that instead of just focusing on doing what a big league manager should do: Play the best players. ... He always went out of his way to say he's a Christian. If that's what he believes, fine, but leave it at home. Don't let it intrude on your decisions in the clubhouse. ... Several things are contributing to the Cardinals playing better. The managerial change is one. Matheny would have fought all these call-ups from Memphis, in my opinion. Plus, he lost Yadier Molina, who is the team leader.

BENFRED: If you are going to make the statement that Matheny made decisions based off of his religious views, then you and others in this chat need a lot more than a "sense" of it. That's how this works. Your "sense" of something doesn't make it so. And that's a heavy claim to pin on someone without any real evidence.

This is a bad argument. Managers get fired and come back better managers. They learn from there experiences. See Milwaukee Brewers, Ned Yost, 2008 with two weeks left in the season. I believe the Brewers were 83 - 67 at the time of Ned's firing.

So he can't confirm?

Why is the Royals thread about the Cardinals? :hmmm:

Jon Jay, Randy Choate, Pete Kozma come to mind. Also, Descalso and Mark Ellis, who was arguably the worst 2B in team history but kept getting trotted out there for months.

Hiring a person who had notoriously and very publicly lost his locker room (a fact backed up by multiple sources). Tends to do that - especially when you're in the process of rebuilding with young players.

Still waiting for that Cardinal fan to speak his praises! I know a lot of people compare him to Yost, but no one ever said Yost was bad with the players - they just said he was a horrific bullpen manager (and yeah, there was something to that).

You owe me a retraction for this ^