Physically speaking they were/are extremely similar.

The only difference is who they played with and the environment they were placed in.

Tony Gonzalez is arguably the greatest tight end of all time.

Rob Gronkowski is the Priest Holmes of tight ends.

Pop quiz: <table border=1>
<tr>
<th>Stat Line</th><th>Games</th><th>Receptions</th><th>Yards</th><th>TDs</th></tr>
<tr><td>A</td><td>19</td><td>81</td><td>726</td><td>6</td></tr>
<tr><td>B</td><td>16</td><td>81</td><td>1163</td><td>12</td></tr>
</table>

Who is A, and who is B?






Stat Line A is the combined playoff statistics of Tony Gonzales and Antonio Gates.

Stat Line B is the playoff statistics of Rob Gronkowski.



And if you add in Priest Holmes playoff stats (total yards and TDs) to Stat Line A, you still don't get to Rob Gronkowski's numbers for yards and TDs.

You know what else hurts?

Gronk. He spent like half of his career in the tub.

Playing in 400 playoff games helps player B.

Thanks for making my point for me.

The only difference is who they played with and the environment they were placed in.

That's one way to look at it.

Another way is that some players compile impressive stats in the regular season, and then don't do much when the lights shine their brightest and the level of competition increases.

While other players rise to the occasion and show their true mettle.

Right, our guys (whichever one, or both) made a mistake. Their mistake was cancelled by your mistake. I'm not terribly excited about this "IF NOT FOR OUR MISTAKE YOUR MISTAKE MEANS WE WIN"

I hear the point, but it's kinda silly.

:rolleyes: Clearly you don't watch much football or something. Shockey was pretty good, but he wasn't Gronk. Couldn't even hold his jock to be honest.

Gonzalez was a GREAT receiver, a mediocre/indifferent blocker most of the time, and was very healthy and played at an extraordinarily high level for a very long time.

But one game, full health, I'll take Gronk in a heartbeat. He's ALSO an elite blocker, which almost none of the other great pass-catching TEs of the last 20 or so years (Gonzalez, Graham, Gates) can say.

Be interesting to see if Gronk decides to retire. He is a big help to the Pats but needs to stay healthy. He gets injured a lot, but for me that has part to do in the way he is tackled. Perhaps Gronk does not want to go through this again.

Be nice if the Pats and Gronk could strike deal where they limit his play to avoid injury and can be around later in the year.

When healthy, and folks not going low on Gronk or landing on his ankles, Gronk is one of the best TEs to play in the NFL. He not only is a great receiver as a TE but is a great blocker, something that even Gonzalez admitted that he is not great at blocking.

Gronk is part of the reason why the Pats have been so successful since they drafted him.

Even BB, who is normally quiet about things, lamented at not having Gronk in the playoffs, or in full health, earlier in this decade

Gronkowski is a significantly better TE than Gonzalez ever was. You might as well compare Jimmy Graham and Gonzalez.

It is right.

Most of the country knows it, too.

All I know is what matters, which is that Dee Ford was like a full yard offsides, the call was correctly made, there was no interception, and the Patriots won.

Nothing else matters one damn bit.

Gronkowski probably injured himself making breakfast this morning.

When you play the position like a man you get hurt. That’s why Tony was so durable.

He did, but the toaster went for his knees...

By this logic every swinging dick who put on a Patriots helmet and got a ring is headed to the HOF.

Gronk is a good tight end in the right place at the right time.

He has never been as good as Gonzalez, and if he played 20 years ago like Gonzalez his numbers wouldn't be nearly as inflated.

those ratings, though.

America knows.

You should find another sport to analyze. Between this and "Brady is DONE" back in 2014, you seem to be pretty bad at football.

Gronk cant even be mentioned in the same breathcas Gomzalez or Kelce. Hes just not as talented and has always had Tom Brady.

LMAO

Lol Kelce

Gronk definitely gave up his body.

That said, he's going to hobble as an old man.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily make him more manly. Just not as smart.

I mean, he does eat Tide Pods.

It won't take that long.

And if Gonzalez had been on a Belichick team, he would have been cut because he wasn't physical enough for the position.

I'll agree that Tony had a strict no-murder policy.

Jovan Belcher didn’t hang around with Tony enough I guess.

He wasn't in any of the tight end meetings.

Yeah, no. Moss wasn't the best blocker either. If you EXCEL at something, then there's more forgiveness if you're not as all-around as some other guys.

Of the dumb things I've read from posters on a message board, this might top the list.

ROFL

Saw this and thought of you, Mr. Worst-Talent-Evaluator there is. Stick to posting GIFs.

https://twitter.com/search?q=zoltan%20buday&src=typd

The highest single season @PFF grades by a TE since 2010:
1. Gronk (2011)
2. Gronk (2014)
3. Gronk (2015)
4. Gronk (2013)
5. Gronk (2012)
6. Gronk (2017)
t-7. Gronk (2016), Greg Olsen (2015) & Jason Witten (2010)
10. Jimmy Graham (2011)

Also note that Shockey didn't even make the 2000 All decade team, and there isn't exactly alot of doubt around who will be the first team all decade team's TE for the 2010s.

I drafted RG in my fantasy league last year because TK was already taken. I traded RG in week ten because he is not what he used to be.

He sure wasn't in 2018, that's for sure, and maybe never will be again. Late in the season it came out that he had back and achilles issues, which likely affected his play, but obviously backs can (and have been for him) be a recurring issue and he's taking a hell of a beating in his career.

He may retire, or he may be just a shell of what he used to be for another season or two, or he may be more like the old Gronk that he flashed in the Super Bowl. Only time will tell.

Stay off the crack. Gonzo played longer and with bums. Gronk won't sniff his stats. Gronk has been a beast but he's not significantly better than Gonzo. That's just sounds stupid. Gronk is done, he will need a cane in a few years.

Be interesting to see if Gronk does retire. Hate to see him leave but understand his points about long term health and the day to day grind of the NFL season.

Maybe if the Pats could find a reduced roll for Gronk to save on wear and tear, he would still be a valuable asset to the team. Gronk does get hit a lot and players go for his legs to tackle him as most have a hard time tackling him straight up.

He is due a base salary of 9 million this year.

I would love to have him back to play in a reduce roll to avoid the wear and tear on his body but at the same time have him on the roster when we need him throughout the season.

Can he unretire midseason?

I don't think so. He's under contract, so to retire he has to file retirement papers I think. Could he file them and then change his mind? Maybe. Pats would still own his rights. Not sure what happens to the old contract. Pro-rated for the portion of the season that he plays? No idea.

Mark Bavaro, who spent a few years with BB in Cleveland, came out publicly saying that BB gave him a much reduced workload those last few years and that BB shoudl do the same for Gronk. I agree. I don't much care about how he does in September, we need him in Jan/Feb.

9 mil is alot to walk away from

He won't be walking much longer anyway.

Hey OP wasn't Brady supposed to be done already? Your threads outside of Mahomes are trash tier.

He may as well be. Bill got it done
Bradys 2 td and 3 int playoff performance is hardly good. Only reason he won was Dee Ford penalty on the same play he threw another int. Lucky overrated mother ****er.

LMAO

once he retires, he'll go from part-time, to full-time Bro.

Gronk will probably take about 69 more days to decide.

Gronk has to have permission from Brady to retire. He won't as long as he doesn't have it.

Gronk is all sore and maybe retiring, Brady is the shadow of what he used to be and half of the coaching staff is gone. I can see the pats going in "restructure" mode soon. They'll keep going to the playoffs for the next 20 yrs though, due to the division they're in, and facing BB in a playoff game is never easy.
That being said, the Pats dynasty as we know it has come to an end.

What I find interesting is how the same reason he was drafted in the 6th round is the same reason people say he's overrated. After almost 20 years in the NFL, you'd think people would finally get it. Someones gotta lead the offense, and he's the guy that does it so well. I don't think Brady cares about stats before winning. So he'll happily just hand the ball off if that's the best course of action. That's what he did this season, gotta give it to him. He's a field general. Exactly what you want from your quarterback. I'd want Mahomes to become more like Brady and less like Rodgers. Save the heroics for the truly desperate situations.

I go back to that 4th down miracle throw against the Ravens. Two(one of them) ravens DB's blew the coverage, Mahomes should have thrown it to that receiver for a 1st down and get the clock stopped.

As a Patriots fan, I agree with you that the Chiefs should design their team to have Mahomes play more like Brady and go for the home run less. Go inside out but just use the outside threat to make the inside game easier. The Patriots with Moss learned, you may destroy most teams with the long ball threat but at a certain point, you may wish you had more of a short to intermediate passing game/running attack against the best teams.

I think the draft narrative is why Brady does get underrated in comparison to other qb's despite all of his accomplishments which include beating out a much more hyped QB in college that was a local favorite. Fans can point to all of his "good luck" which is often true to a certain extent since football in part is a game of luck but they forget to mention his bad luck. In his first two Super Bowl losses, the most important Patriot(Brady) and the second most important Patriot(Gronk) were playing hurt. Gronk's injury was severe. It was more minor but even against Philly Brady was playing hurt and Hightower/Edelman were out with season ending injuries and Cooks got concussed early. Injuries and freak plays are a part of the game -- Chiefs had them vs Patriots -- and the Patriots have had those things go for them and go against them. But in general have designed the team with a bit more depth so they can overcome injuries to starters like Chung or Rodney Harrison in the Super Bowl. Anyways, Brady beat out a former #1 pick in the draft who had very recently signed the first 100 million dollar contract for a QB in the NFL and had made pro bowls and had helped his team to Super Bowl several years earlier. And even when he was older and had lost his job was I believe still traded for a first round pick.

Brady excels at doing things that win a bunch of football games in the short to long run. He doesn't excel at doing things that look great at an NFL combine. But realistically, he has always had enough arm strength to get the job done and after a certain point, increased arm strength if you are throwing passes your hardest is a negative since receivers more likely to drop them.

I'd bet anything Brady would have not been anywhere nearly as successful without BB. How would he have faired with the Browns or Jets???

If Dee Ford hadn't lined up in the neutral zone all the focus would have been how Brady blew their SB chance with a 3 int 0 TD performance and is this the end for him. One ****ing play completely changed the narrative.

**** Tom Brady and **** the Patriots!

There is no way in hell that the AFC East doesn't have another relatively strong team in the next 20 years. This Patriots fan recognizes the Patriots reign over AFC East will come to an end. The only question is whether its Dolphins, Bills or Jets but one of those 3 should make at least one Super Bowl over the next 20 years if not multiple Super Bowls.

Main reason Brady's numbers down this year were.
1) he did have a couple of week slump where he was uncharacteristically off with some of his passing. Blame some of that on age and you may be right. Brady brought in his qb coach and got on track.
2) Edelman suspended 4 games.
3) Gronk is slowing down a bit as a receiver and he was injured a lot this year.
4) no very good outside receiving threat.
5) Brady is happy to hand the ball off to a running back at goal line if that is the best option. Patriots had a good rookie running back score a bunch of TDs.

So Brady should decline next year since he is a year older but his numbers may go up if Patriots get a couple of very good outside threats or an outside threat and a better backup to Edelman and/or Gronk.

BB has such a great reputation that while Patriots may not win another Super Bowl the next 6-7 years especially if BB decides to replace Brady with a veteran QB or gets lucky drafting a replacement, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots make playoffs 4 or 5 of them even if another team in AFC East becomes team to beat in the division or even conference. (I am guessing Brady misses playoffs in his last year due to declining performance and/or injuries.) Once you are in the playoffs if you have a competent QB or above and a relatively healthy team, anything can happen in a given year. Odds are stacked in favor of better QBs/better teams but lesser QBs/lesser teams still have a chance.

1985 Patriots are evidence of lesser QBs. Went to Super Bowl with Tony Eason and beat Dan Marino in Miami along the way.

You left one out

Some of what you are saying is somewhat true but remember BB was an unsuccessful head coach with two different teams before Brady came along.

Brady's brilliance and willingness to put the team first may have had a coach like Rex Ryan for all of his stupidity in the HOF.

And it is true that Brady almost threw 3 or even 4 int's that game vs KC but he almost threw only 1 as well.

The big point is he did much better than nearly every NFL qb throwing into tight windows that game vs Chiefs. 7 for 14 which was much better than the other 3 qb's that played that weekend. Check out espn article if you don't believe me..... It was Brady's best tight window performance in 3 years according to the analytics people who track it.

And it is also true that while Hogan made a great one handed catch on one pass reception that he may have been slowed down slightly by Chiefs defense, it is also true that Patriots receivers dropped 5-6 very catchable balls in that game as well.

Pretty much Brady just had around 4 bad inaccurate throws that entire game and 2 of them Patriots receivers(Gronk and Edelman) could have caught and probably catch over 50% of the time. Those were the two tipped balls.

Most of Brady's other incompletions were him just throwing it away so Chiefs fast pass rush and it was pretty darn fast at times couldn't get to him. And their were the 5-6 drops.

Outside of being fooled by Chiefs linebacker in the end zone, Brady had a great game passing vs Chiefs.

Ask yourself the last team to put up 38 points against Chiefs at Arrowhead and how often that is done. It wasn't done since Sony Michel is Barry Sanders in his prime.

38 points and name Patriots main outside receiving threat. Could he make the Chiefs roster at wide receiver? Maybe but I doubt he plays much at all.

I laughed at that one since I do think it is very weird that Brady does that with his 11 year old son but he isn't the only heterosexual guy that does that which I find weird.

My only defense of it is Brady may be especially cognizant of showing love for that child in particular since it the child is from a former girlfriend and not Gisele.

From what I read, Brady's own father did that to him to a certain extent so he is passing down a weird to me family tradition.

I'd bet anything if Mahomes was born and raised in Africa he wouldn't have been playing in the NFL today. :)

Come on man, that argument is so dumb. You can say that about every player, every human being. All that matters is the end result.

The constant Brady is nothing without Belichick to tear Brady down. And then Belichick is nothing without Brady to tear Belichick down is insanity.

Belichick and Brady make each other better, no doubt.

What I said is true. Now shuddup.

God, you might be the dumbest mother****er that ever lived.

If Hog's Gone Fishing didn't know how to swim and fell out of his boat, he wouldn't be here today to post this.

Just saying!:)

lmao so sad

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">From <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLGameDay?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NFLGameDay</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Patriots?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Patriots</a> owner Robert Kraft told Rob Gronkowski he wants him back for November, December, and the playoffs. But the clock is ticking until the deadline of Nov. 30 (<a href="https://t.co/oUhq0cWR3K">https://t.co/oUhq0cWR3K</a>) <a href="https://t.co/XqgegtEAEa">pic.twitter.com/XqgegtEAEa</a></p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1193542732737863680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

To be honest I was surprised Gronk retired and never believed he was done for good. Training camp, preseason, and about all of regular season means next to nothing to him. If he chooses to remain retired then I'll be shocked. I think he'll come back.

Let's hope if the ****ing dolt comes back, somebody has the guts to, well, you know, tackle him really hard!

Gronk is in the CBD business these days so I don't know how that goes along with playing in the NFL. He lost a bunch of weight too.

In my opinion, KC got the Honey Badger with Gronk in mind.

Good Lord, I hope not. Gronk's got nearly a foot on Mathieu. We'd lose that battle a vast majority of the time.

Gronk ain’t coming back guys. He’s lost a shit ton of weight

We haven't seen that kind of impact from Mathieu yet.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On <a href="https://twitter.com/OMFonWEEI?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@OMFonWEEI</a>, Bill Belichick is told about Gronk making an announcement at 9 a.m. ET tomorrow, and is asked if he&#39;ll be monitoring social media.<br><br>&quot;I&#39;m sure my phone will be ringing off the hook, all the alerts I have on it,&quot; Belichick jokes. &quot;I&#39;m sure it will be going crazy.&quot;</p>&mdash; Mike Reiss (@MikeReiss) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1196564064685699074?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He’s making his acting debut. If you look on his IG he’s been working on a show

100% correct.

FAX

Just no.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/03/ro...-list-patriots


College - University of Arizona
2009

• Back Vertebral Disc Hernia, Aug. 15 (Forced Gronkowksi to miss the entire 2009 season.)

NFL - New England Patriots
2012

• High ankle sprain, Jan. 28 (Suffered during AFC Championship, but played in Super Bowl. Later underwent arthroscopic surgery in February.)

• Inguinal hip pull, Sept. 28

• Arm forearm fracture, Nov. 18 (Missed five games.)

2013

• Arm forearm fracture, Jan. 13 (Re-fractured arm, necessitating three more surgeries.)

• Back vertebral fracture, May 17 (Underwent surgery while also recovering from broken arm; didn't play until Week 7 the next season.)

• Concussion - Grade 1, Dec. 8

• Torn ACL - Grade 3, Dec. 8

• Torn MCL - Grade 3, Dec. 8 (Gronkowski suffered a concussion, a torn ACL and a torn MCL on the same play.)

2015

• Knee Strain - Grade 1, Nov. 29 (Missed one game.)

2016

• Hamstring Pull - Grade 1, Aug. 15 (Missed entire preseason and first two regular-season contests.)

• Chest Lung Bruise, Nov. 13

• Back Vertebral Disc Hernia, Nov. 27 (Missed final five regular-season games, as well playoffs. Had surgery in December.)

2017

• Leg Thigh Bruise, Oct. 1 (Missed one game.)

2018

• Concussion - Grade 1, Jan. 21

• Back/Ankle - (Missed three games)


Plus he had a very serious thigh bruise which he said kept him up crying in pain after the Super Bowl win. Imagine instead of being able to party and celebrate, you're basically just in massive pain due to a hard tackle. That sucks....

Yeah, that is a compelling case for him to stay retired. Robert Kraft and Brady both told him they want him back. That deadline for him to commit or stay home is fast approaching.

(I don't think that weight loss would be good for him taking hits either.)

He's only had 2 concussions?

That's surprising. Very surprising.

FAX

Why in the world would you come back? You went out on top as much as is humanly possible. You complained about your body breaking down. You have other irons in the fire career-wise. And I'm sure you see that the Patriots offense has problems even if you do happen to return.

Doesn't sound that enticing. It's not like he's got Mahomes throwing to him and Tyreek Hill split out opposite him.

Is he even in shape to come back? Last pic I saw of him it looked like he lost 20-30 lbs...

Belichick probably threatened to have Gronk's family hurt if he didn't come back and help him win another ring.

There's no way he's coming back. No chance.

I certainly wouldn't put it past him, but Belichick convincing Gronk to retake the field is akin to aiding and abetting assault.

So yes. He probably will do exactly that.

FAX

I bet "patriots fans" don't know who he is now.

He's not coming back. Not this season anyway. He couldn't get into football shape in time at this point.