They'll have Fuller, Berry and Ward back. The rest sure, do whatever with. But that's essentially 2 people there?

I agree.

Andy loves Sorenson, he's not leaving.

He's overpaid for sure, but when there isn't ass and shit playing beside him he's pretty good.

Good call, Berry is like money in the bank, very reliable. Wild horses couldn’t keep him off the field. Definitely need to bank on her being ready and raring to go every game.


JFC, I wouldn’t rely on him to fill up the canteens much being within 10 miles of the playing Field. I guess we could continue to lose every game he plays in. Pat would really have to prove how good he is to overcome that failure.

What about Lucas and Nelson (on a cheap deal)?

Nelson is going to get paid in this market. A lot more than he's worth.

I understand, maybe I should of added for a reasonable deal provided he wants to stay here. His PFF score is ridiculous and he doesn't pass the eye test for me, I've always seen him as a back up in the slot position to Fuller, since he's a better player in that position... But, you're right someone will pay him.

Nelson isn't coming back, in that ESPN projection thing they had him getting 3 years 35 million.

Honestly think they will rotate Speaks in a lot more with Houston this year, let him learn a bit more from him with the goal by the end of the year being that Houston is the 3rd guy who they can bring in and keep fresh and wreck havoc on the qb and also assist with outside runs

I forgot about Lucas, they'll bring him back i'd think.

And with as much as they will likely move guys around in the front 7, starter or no starter won't really matter. They need a lot of depth up there.

Lucas and Watts are already going to be here as safeties, I think it's time to move on from the past suck and the injured Berry, pursue Collins he has familiarity with this staff with Merritt and Spagnuolo, draft Adderly, roll with Collins Adderly Watts and Lucas...that is an overall that makes that position younger cheaper and better cause Collins isn't gonna make what Berry does either.

I'm in 100%.

Me too.

That's ridiculous too, considering how poor the secondary has been. Hopefully the Chiefs don't toss the Terrance Mitchells away, we can always use them as depth in that overhaul.

The CB position isn't that far away either, Fuller, Ward and Smith are gonna be here, what they really need is a legit top level guy.

It's why I think if Minnesota is serious about moving Rhodes the Chiefs should be all over that. He's not that expensive for his position and he's a solid 1 for awhile. Supplement that with either a draft pick or a low risk high upside FA signing and all of the sudden this secondary is a lot better.

There are rumors that the Giants could be cutting Janoris Jenkins. He'd be an interesting pick up if it's not super expensive.

That'd be a decent cheap option. That's the other thing this team should be doing, looking at vets who get cut who want to win something and are willing to take less for it.

Eric Weddle is an option for that if Baltimore moves on.

I haven't seen anything about them wanting to move on from him, but if so that would be a nice option.

If they want to or can move on from Berry, sure. I don't think they will or will be able to but that's gonna play out either way.

If they do though, I wouldn't be excited to just sign another safety to a big deal, especially one that's a similar player to Berry.

Well we need some money right now and Houston is the biggest financial burden we have. He’s gonna have to take a significant pay cut and I don’t think he wants to.

I’d be fine with trading him to a place like Indy who has a ton of cash, recoup our 4th and signing John Simon and/or Vinny Curry.

We can’t pay $37 million next year for Houston & Ford.

How about a swap with the Bucs? They could use 3-4 OLBs with Bowles as the DC. Not sure Pierre-Paul would fit as an OLB.

That's what I'd prefer and do with Ford. Tag and trade him down there for Pierre Paul and a pick or for Levontae David.

That's a lot of money to be taking on. PP is at around $14 million and David is at $9 million.

I'd be fine taking on David.

By the way I meant either or not both. Just clarifying.

Gotcha.

I think I'd be more inclined to take on Pierre-Paul....as much as I want David. I'm just not sure where the **** our 3 LBs would play. Unless you're going to roll with David at MLB, Hitchens at WLB and DOD on the bench. We'd still need to find a SLB.

Chiefs #1 priority should be to fix the middle of the defense.

First off, they should go out and get a safety. Landon Collins would be the ideal choice since he is young and familiar with Spagnuolo’s defensive philosophy and scheme.

Secondly, they need a middle linebacker bad. Personally, I would trade up for Devin White. That guy is going to be amazing. He has everything the Chiefs inside linebackers lacked in explosiveness, great sideline to sideline speed, makes good reads, he is responsible for taking on and filling his gaps, closes angles well, a good tackler in the open field and he plays with tremendous fortitude. He fights off blocks and doesn’t give up on plays.

He is pretty complete. They traded up to get their QB, Heart of the offense, and I think they should do the same on D.

White isn't going to be an option...Bush is a much more realistic candidate at MLB.

Trade up for a MLB when they just gave Hitchens a bunch of money?

No thanks. The position isn't THAT important.

I wouldn't have a problem trading up for a ILB if it's a Kuechly or Willis.

I don't think White is that.

What??? I disagree.

Hitchens isn't a MLB. Put him back to his original position to where he was in Dallas.

You need MLBs bro. Why take that position for granted? I don't understand?

You do realize a big reason our defense sucked was because they looked totally lost, confused and that resulted in them being disorganized and out of position many many many times. Communication, lack of understanding, organization all were issues with this defense last season.

An intelligent MLB will fix those issues; especially one that knows the defense inside and out that is willing to create the right tone and environment for the defense. You need those guys to constantly communicate and help educate the rest of your teammates and facilitate awareness within the defensive unit itself. One that could pass along knowledge about the defense, so guys could learn and become more responsible for both their assignments and where to line up and be in that right position to make plays.

Than it is just a matter of others executing around him. MLBs promote structure with a defense. To say a MLB is not important is so ****ing ignorant. No offense. A MLB makes the players around him better.

*this defense has zero leaders and no structure a big reason for that is because they don't have a field general. Tell me who is going to fix all that? Sapgnuolo and the coaches? Hitchens? Ragland? They both proved they couldn't do that last year.

First of all, I never said MLB wasn't important. I said it isn't important enough that you give up a bunch of draft picks to move up from 29 to the middle of the 1st round.

By the way, Hitchens original position is WLB. He's also played a ton of MLB. Put him at WLB and DOD goes to the bench. He's not a SLB, playing him there would be a mistake.

And if you think a rookie MLB is going to come in here and elevate the entire defense, I don't know what to tell you. We're not getting DJ or Kuechly in this draft and those are the guys that actually make a difference at MLB.

Earl Thomas isn’t even 30 yet. With that broken leg and another year gone, his price tag might drop enough that he’d be willing to play for a contender on an incentive-laden contract.

In Dallas he played MLB in 2014, 2015, 2016 and in 2017 when he beat out Jaylon Smith until another injury to Sean Lee when they moved him to the WLB.
So in short his original position was MLB with the Cowboys.

No it wasn't. Cowboys traded for Rolando McClain and that was originally their plan at MLB. Hitchens was originally not slotted to play there to begin with.

Cowboys wanted him to learn all three different linebacker positions and make him versatile. That's because guys were either getting injured or suspended. Hitchens was used laterally by the Cowboys to help solidify their depth at linebacker.

He has experience at MLB but that was never his original position.

LMAO dude, you implied it wasn't important and acted like they should just play Hitchens just because he got his payday.

I'd personally play Hitchens at the "will" in man to man and in zone place him in the flats...I think he would fit best there under those scenarios.

You're wrong. I said explicitly that MLB wasn't THAT important, referring to your statement that we should try to trade up to get one, especially when they already have Hitchens on a big contract.

I never said that it wasn't important at all. Didn't even imply it.

This team has a ton of needs and trading away multiple draft picks to get a MLB would be foolish, especially considering there aren't any blue chippers in this draft class anyway.

It's pretty simple English if you'd just bother to read.

Absolutely 100% correct. Hitchens' natural position is WLB.

The only reason people are talking about him as a MLB is because he has played there some and because they're looking for ways to get DOD on the field.

If Hitchens is your starter at WLB, then you need both a Mike AND a Sam. That's a lot of ground to make up considering the needs in the secondary. They only have so many draft picks.

By the way, even if you do consider Devin White to be a Kuechly/DJ type of prospect, he's going to like go somewhere between 8 and 12 unless he absolutely bombs at the combine or something.

The Chiefs would have to trade their ENTIRE draft to get to #10. Just to get to #12 would cost them their first rounder and BOTH seconds.

That is why I said the position is not THAT important. You'd essentially be giving away 3 potential starters for 1, all for a team that has dire needs at CB and S.

I did read your post.

Ok. You have your interpretation and I have mine. When someone says “its not that important what does that mean?” The way I look at is, its not something taken seriously thus deflating its value or worth within the figment of their own imagination. Isn’t that the same thing as “not important?” But whatever, this argument is NOT important!! Its only going to go in circles and therefore to me is NOT important:D

We traded away multiple picks to get Mahomes. How did that turn out? You never know? If a guy is really really good then he may be worth trading those picks to get him? But you have your opinions about that and don’t think its worth it and I respect that.

The problem I have with Hitchens playing MLB is that I don’t feel he has the football IQ to excel at the position. Thats just me.

I think he is best at the “will” and DOD should play in sub nickel/dime packages. They could compliment each other like that since Hitchens can’t cover out in the flat, they should make him responsible for getting to the ball carrier on the running downs there and let DOD cover RB’s out in the flats especially on screen plays. Or shift him over and let him cover the TE, slot receivers, etc.

DOD imo is too undersized; I think he would get destroyed against big mauling OL on run D.

Ok cool.

I got your point. You wouldn’t sacrifice the draft to trade that far up. I guess it all depends where he ends up being selected? If he is in the top 10, then maybe its not worth it to sacrifice all those picks? But for sure we do need a MLB...I think he is the best one out there. If they could find a really good one somewhere else without having to give up that much compensation, Im all for it.

There is no such thing as trading from the bottom of the 1st round to the middle of the 1st round to get a MLB.

You do that for a QB or a passrusher that's it.

At best, you can trade up a few picks if you absolutely love that MLB.

This being said, I don't think it would necessarily be a strong unit but between Houston, Hitchens, DOD and a 2nd round pick LB I think you have what's needed to have a good defense if the Dline and secondary are strong. To be honest, I'm not a fan of drafting a LB with the 1st round pick considering the state of the defense and if it came to such, I would probably like that they move down rather than up.

Me too. :thumb:

I think I’d look around at teams going from one d to another and try and pick up an mlb there

Maybe the bucs or jets or something

If anything I'd prefer a trade down with some team wanting a QB and pick up another 3rd/4th we could throw at the depth on O line...

Those guys are good pieces along with the right defensive philosophy, coaching and scheme but Hitchens wouldn’t be the guy I’d want as my MLB. And I don’t think the defense will ever maximize its potential to be great without a really good MLB. I want greatness, I want a dynasty. **** it. Those are my goals w/ respect to this organization. I know thats a lot to ask but they’re not far off from being there imo. So why not go for that? Thats how I think.

They need better leadership and cohesiveness as a unit on D and Im sorry but thats not gonna be brought out entirely by depending on the players you stated above along with that 2nd round pick; they need more. Unless, they draft a MLB with their second round pick and that player ends up being a Bobby Wagner type of player? then yeah :D

But if they draft a corner, safety....Different story. They’d be better, but, like I was saying I dont think the D would ever maximize its potential to being great. This is my reason as to why Im emphasizing the MLB position its because he is like the QB of the D. They desperately need one imo. Not gonna be easy to find. Those guys are very hard to find.

Its time we get one. Like **** man, its frustrating in that we haven’t had a true MLB since the ‘60s. Willie Lanier era. Thats a long time. Were due for one.

That is NOT what was said. Will you PLEASE stop with this bullshit?

If you can read between the lines, that's absolutely what he said.

question-
Those of you that think Hitchens is not a MLB and should play WLB, but think he's not great in coverage-
Do you have any idea what the responsibilities are for either position in a 4-3? I don't think you do. You should take like...5 minutes and google '4-3 defense' and read up a little on what the skillsets for each position typically are.

because that's what you want to believe.

I read what he said as the sort of lip service you would publicly pay a player you hope to shop to the highest bidder. Also because that's what I want to believe.

And I believe that unlike the past, all options are going to be thoroughly weighed, and WITHOUT sentiment.

I hope that you are right.

Veach does seem to be an aggressive guy. I hope this will prove true.

I'm sorry but that wouldn't help drive Ford's value up at all.

GMs look at the film, at the stats, etc. They don't care and are not influenced by what you say in public praising your player other than if it has to do with his attitude or the like I guess.

then I want to play poker with you.

it's not about changing what the other GM thinks of Ford, but convincing him that you value him enough to not give him away for peanuts.

There's no reading between the lines. He said it ON THE RADIO. And there was zero inflection in his voice - it was 100% GM-speak.

Let's play poker then!

Praising a player's level of play doesn't help drive his value up at all.

Probably makes it a little higher than saying we are not sure if we are going to keep him or not.

Hitchens original position was weakside linebacker in Dallas. That is part of the reason why I stated he should play there.

He is not good in coverage, thats proven nor does he have the IQ to excel at MLB. The only thing I could really think of as to why he should play on the weakside is on running downs. I just feel he has the speed, size and athleticism to chase down the RB from side to side in order to perform that role.

And I stated that he and DOD should substitute where DOD could be a good compliment for Hitchens in that he has the skill set to be responsible in coverage for either the RB or slot receiver that lines up on the weakside and that could compensate or make up for Hitchens weakness. But DOD is too small and imo would get galloped by athletic, mauling OL. Thats where I think both Hitchens size, speed and athleticism has value and could compensate for DODs weakness in that regard.

I also think Hitchens could be used in blitz packages. He has the explosiveness imo but needs to time his blitzes better. I do see potential in that area though.

If you were an NFL GM...and were interested in Ford, do you think the conversation about compensation starts lower or higher if Veach has publicly said that the Chiefs are iffy on him as he's suspect in every aspect of the game save pass rush?

Don't double down, dude. You said something dumb without thinking it through. But if you DO double down, let me in that poker game witcho-dumb-ass. :)

in a 4-3 under your Will won't see that many mauling OL with a free shot at him. They'll be occupied with your RDE and Jones. It's exactly where you can play an undersized but fast coverbacker.

Hitchens ain't really a coverbacker. You don't want him covering RB's one on one in the flat. He's a 4-3 MLB. He's a smidge small i think for a SAM but is pretty physical so you COULD put him there.

I don't think it's fair to say the guy lacks IQ after one season in Sutton's scheme.
How dumb can he be, really, if Dallas used him in all three spots and he played well? I mean, he had to learn all the LB's responsibilities in all playcalls.

Thats not always the case though. It all depends on the offensive play call that the opposing offense is calling There are some situations or scenarios where offenses run tosses, sweeps, screens etc and if they’re athletic freaks will pull away from guys like Jones or whomever the RDE will be.

And if DOD is the next guy in line that they have to block, he will get destroyed. Yeah I agree that Hitchens is physical and perhaps that could make up for shedding off blockers in these open field?

In all fairness though, yeah I see your point in that he never really had a steady position at LB and always had to learn different positions there.

Don’t know if it’s been said.

But if Veach saying Fords not going anywhere, Patrick Peterson apologizing for his trade request means he’s staying in the desert, right?

I think I want to use one of our 2nd's on Jeffery Simmons.

Top of the draft talent that tore his ACL. Essentially we are trading a late 2 for a top 5 player. The point is to win as many Superbowls as possible.

Imagine Jones and Simmons together.

I saw it mentioned by someone in a thread recently but I really want players drafted who love football. Guys like Mahomes who probably lose sleep over every loss. And I know talent matters a ton, but if two players are close in talent but one guy cares about his craft a lot more, that’s the player I want. Even if he isn’t quite as good physically.

Fortunately, Veach has always said that they like to target guys who love the game. I expect that will continue as it creates a level of accountability within the locker room.

We're just gonna argue in circles; neither has any inside knowledge.

I'm quite certain that Hitch is your MLB. DoD is your Will. Sam is up in the air. You think otherwise.

As of right now; with FA and the draft to go. We'll see how it plays out.

Dude, it's literally bluffing to sweeten the bet. For ****'s sake, man. I really don't understand how you're not getting this. But I DO know, that if you've got a poker game going, I want in.

It's kind of like in my line of work: There are musicians; for whom the work is the point and then there are people who want to be STARS, for whom fame and riches are the goal.

Musicians would gladly take the money and the glory; but they're going to play music whether anyone cares or not. Whatever it takes. just to keep playing.

The wannabe STARS usually fall away and go do something else when the going gets tough; and the going ALWAYS gets tough.

Give me a band full of musicians anyday.

LMAO