If the Chiefs got a 2008 Jared Allen haul for Jones, you'd all take it. Yeah, the 2008 team was rebuilding and needed multiple picks more than they needed Jared Allen, but it's basically the same principal here. Every man has his price.

We got a 1st and two 3rds out of Jared Allen (17th, 73rd, and 82nd overall). There isn't a reasonable draft partner who has two 3rd round picks in this year's draft, but we'd probably be able to get equivalent value if we traded with a team drafting in the top half of the 1st round and they threw in a 4th or a 5th somewhere down the line.

For example, the Cardinals have plenty of cap room but don't have any playmakers on their interior defensive line. They need a WR, but this is one of those stupid deep drafts at that position. So they part with 9th overall and throw in a 2021 pick of some sort.

Chiefs now have:

1.9
1.32
2.63
3.96
4.something
5.something

Now think of the trade down options they could maneuver around with both of those 1st rounders.

Yeah, that means we no longer have Chris Jones. But in exchange, we gain a lot more flexibility to plug holes in the roster with a free agent or two in future seasons. We could also see drastic improvements at LB and/or OL, get a young cheap starter at CB, and still be able to find some more weapons for Pat on offense at WR, TE, and/or RB.

It's boring. It's not sexy. But it virtually guarantees we'll be contending for the Super Bowl for at least the next 3-4 years without having to rely on luck when it comes to injuries so much.

If the Cards offer up the 9th overall pick.....then sure. But I don’t see any team doing that. I think we might be able to pull a 1st rounder from the Dolphins but I’m not sure they’d give up the middle one.

That is the key point. The focus is no longer how can we win a Super Bowl, its not how do we keep putting this team in position to win championships. Jones is a great player, but the last thing you want to do if you're the Chiefs is essentially lock in your roster for the next four years. You must remain flexible.

I know its apples and oranges, but look at what the Red Sox just did. They traded way Mookie Betts, a generational player so they could get Reid of a stupid huge contract. In the short term it hurt, in the long term it allows them the flexibility to compete.

Look at the Bears, the feel good story of 2018, everything was great when they got Mack, but now their team is a mess, and they want to trade him and let another top ten defensive pick walk.

This has never been about making it all work under the cap next season, its about what's best for the Chiefs moving forward long term.

Jones will be back /end thread

Letting go of Jones is a mistake. Veach will find a way to sign him without messing up the cap. He was a huge part of our defense's success this year. There is just no way to replace him.

Picks 1-15 and another pick? Deal.
Picks 16-32 and another pick? I’m interested but I’d have to see.
2nd rounder and lower? Get ****ed.

This obviously entails us not trading him to the Raiders, Broncos, Chargers or Patriots. I would prefer an NFC team or a bottom tier team like the Dolphins.

I’d trade him to the Patriots, Ravens, or Texans, but they have to pay a major premium. Multiple first round picks and probably a mid round pick or two. None of them would/can do that though.

Agreed. Any team that says, "Well, we have this nice 2nd round pick, and we could also offer...." deserves to have its entire locker room infected with CoronaAIDS

I'd like to see them restructure and keep Sammy Watkins. Keep that young core on offense together for as long as possible. Teams know to beat the Chiefs you need at a minimum 30 (unless Mahomes is playing on one leg). That's tough.

1.) Restructure Sammy
2.) Tag and trade Jones for a first and a third.
3.) Draft Kenneth Murray (Dolphins #23 pick via Jones trade).
4.) Draft JK Dobbins (Chiefs #32 pick).
5.) $20 million saved in cap space from Jones trade and the rest of your draft picks address interior Oline and defense.

They had Mahomes on a cheap deal?

Chris Jones is such a beast that I cannot vote against trading him or letting him go. If he stays with us and continues the production, he's a hall of famer. But I also understand that if they have to let him go.

If the Chiefs draft Murray at #23 after giving up Jones for that pick, Veach should be shot and pissed on.

Way better prospects at multiple positions than Murray who might not even be a 3 down linebacker.

If Jones was just "very good" and demanded $20 million a year, I think it's tag and trade.

But, Jones is ELITE and hasn't demanded anything yet, and has openly stated that he wants to be here. He needs to be on this team next year.

As an organization we have drafted DT after DT after DT hoping to find an elite talent. We might not draft a comparable replacement for Jones in the next decade.

Until Jones prices himself out of Kansas City, the focus needs to be on keeping him on the roster. I can't believe there are so many people so ready to send him packing.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

^ Nailed it.

His market value is definitely in the 18-20m range.

If he was available for 14m, I'd be saying keep him.

Pass rush and pass coverage are both really important. If you blow your wad on Jones and have garbage coverage from corners and linebackers, Jones won't be as effective.

It genuinely blows to lose him, but it looked like the right thing to do as soon as they paid Frank. Sucks that you lose your drafted guy because you paid a FA, but then would we have won it all without both of them on the field for 1 year before Jones became too expensive keep?

Everyone keeps saying we MUST SIGN HIM without really laying out HOW we’re going to do that.

Jones has elite pass rush, but sub par run instincts. He isn’t elite in both aspects of his game.

We'll agree to disagree. Who would you go after with pick 23? Mahomes is also going to attract some top tier free agent veterans in the coming years that'll take a discount for a chance at a ring. I think its important to keep some cap flexibility to go after them.

Not sure anyone is willing to send him packing for a bag of chips. Multiple picks including a mid 1st rounder is a pretty good haul. Basically we would be getting a Frank Clark haul. Which is interesting in that trade seems to be one of the main reasons that we need to consider about trading Jones.

But I am with you if there is away to keep him for the next two years without tying up 100 million for the next 5 we probably should do it. The defense is not the same without Jones in the middle. Your not going to replace him and would be taking a step back without him.

To name a few:

D’Andre Swift
Grant Delpit
Xavier McKinney
Trevon Diggs
Josh Jones
Laviska Shenault

Unless I get the 20M personally... I'll take Chris Jones. They guy is a one man wrecking crew on the inside.

I am wondering if you all would deal Chris Jones for Quenton Nelson and a 3rd round pick?

Majority of your list is positions we have locked up for foreseeable future (safety, offensive tackle, WR (if we resign Watkins as I suggested)). Makes no sense.

that's a hell nah.

Nelson is a beast of a G, but he's still just a G. You don't win playoff games with difference makers on the OL.

I tend to agree... but it's an interesting scenario if they would do a draft pick.

I'd rather have the Colts 1st and 3rd, but sure, I'd do that.

Kinda sorta agree. I'm not 100% convinced we win the Super Bowl with Wylie at LG though.

Name one person off of that vaunted 49er DL, other than Nick Bosa, that you would rather have than Jones. Those guys are all top 1st round draft picks.

Nelson has two cheap years left and his 5th year option. So yeah, I'd take him and 3rd.

Its the type of player I'd love to try and land.

I'm not sure this is the argument you think it is. The 49ers ENTIRE STARTING DL has a total average salary of about what it would cost to keep Jones. So if you're asking me if I could trade Jones for the 49ers DL, the answer is yes in an instant. Otherwise, I'd take Buckner and $15m to spend on other players, yes.

I just think the piece that everyone always ignores in discussions like this is that the salary BUYS OTHER PLAYERS, so any discussion of what you would trade should also consider the difference in cap hit and what else we might be able to do with it.

If Nelson was a top 5 LT or RT, I could see it. That's value on par with a premium pass rusher.

A freaking guard? No way.

...a freaking guard plus $15m to spend on other players.

I draft for BPA, not need - especially Round 1.

Safety? - you think Sorenson merits being a full time starter? You know Thornhill’s timetable for return?

Corner? - we only have two under contract

RB? - you like the depth behind Williams, let alone believe he is an every down back that can endure 16 games + playoffs? Swift is a perfect weapon for a Reid offense.

Receiver? - Will Watkins be a Chief let alone Robinson? Is Hardman a legit contributor this soon given the limitations in his route running?

Tackle? - Fisher and Schwartz are not getting any younger, and Fisher’s cost is becoming concerning.

Fletcher Cox and Grady Jarrett are the highest paid DT's according to over the cap and Cox is going to have a $22 million cap hit the next 3 seasons.

Looking at Jarrett's contract the first 2 years (2019 and 2020) his cap number is low, like $11-12 million and after that it goes up. I imagine that is what Jones contract will be like so I say sign him because the new CBA and TV deals will massively increase the salary cap in the next 1-2 years.

Holy shit that's a lot of people who'd keep Jones. What a terrible ****ing idea.

Tag and trade Jones is the top 5 options.

You are missing the point, which is that none of those players are as good/dominate as Jones. And we have no idea if a 1st round draft pick is going to be anywhere as good as Jones.
Sure you can get other players for that money difference. You can get players like Hitchens.

Defeatist

uh... yes

I don't get the logic in this thread.

"CHIRS JONES IS A MUST SIGN! INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY!"

Would you trade him for the best interior OL in the league to stop interior pass rush on your Super Bowl MVP quarterback?

"STOPPING THE INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS MEANINGLESS!"

Also Rankin looked solid before his injury

Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period.

Here is how I see it:

Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher.

Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior.

if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense.

The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded.

With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL.

That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented.

Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.

D line is perhaps the hardest position to draft outside of QB, blue chip can’t miss linemen bust hard at an incredible rate

That’s why when you finally unearth a real gem, you don’t go selling them off for another chance to go digging around in the dirt

Legitimate game changers up front are basically ****ing unicorns, you keep them if AT ALL possible

Jones is a defensive cornerstone, he stays

That’s one path. It isn’t the only path, IMO.

I’ll get into it either way and support it. Great players raise the game of the guys around them.

If the Chiefs keep Jones, they can find a lot of success stories like Emmanuel Ogbah - guys who fit the scheme and give them good production in 1x1 matchups.

They also can get away with a little less talent in the back seven. Again, scheme fits are important, but they can get by without a true lockdown corner of the front 4 is dominant.

Flip side, yeah, if they can move Jones for a 1st and 3rd this year, that’s great value for him. But is that deal out there? Hard to say. They’re saying the right things publicly to maximize their leverage with trading him, though. I’ve had fun playing around with drafts where KC has 4-5 picks in the top 100, too. They can infuse a lot of young talent and also set themselves up to have a big draft class again next year.

Both approaches can be right if executed properly.

I’d be less confident in spending big on Jones if Veach hadn’t shown such a nice eye for finding undervalued talent. Rankin, Ogbah, Ward, etc.

I mean, that’s a little hyperbolic.

The value of an elite pass rusher - which I think we all agree Jones is, and a unique one at that - is a lot higher than the value of an elite interior OL.

Nelson is a monster, but he’s still an interior guy. Guys like Jones are harder to find and offer more value over an “adequate” or “good” player when compared to a G.

Protect Mahomes. Give him weapons. If those two things don't happen, KC is an average team. Keeping Jones makes it much more difficult to maximize our greatest strength.

I think the smart, safe decision is to tag and trade him. A late first and a future third would do it for me.

I do not want to watch Chris Jones play for the Raiders

This will happen one way or another if he leaves kc

He has a swagger to him that is infectious

Sack Nation

slight qualm, Face.

It’s not a first + 20M or Jones.

Part of the 20 has to pay the salary of the first round pick. Depending on where, it could be 3 or 4 mil. So it’s not a huge deal but I think ogbah makes less than that so it isn’t immaterial.

I’ve been barking up this tree awhile. Jones has endeared himself to me, especially if he’s below Donald money. But on the whole this is where I am. And honestly I don’t think the DL can have Clark AND Jones.

Like I said, I’ve been barking up this tree awhile.

I’d rather have solid if unspectacular players at every position than a BAMF and schmucks.

If you have a part of your defense that is consistently exploitable, you’re ****ed. Granted a fair percentage of coaching staffs are too stupid to take advantage but the ones that can will be there when it matters.

Also, RE: Spags Giants DLs that were chalk full of good dudes, IIRC it was one dude getting paid then rookie contracts. So there wasn’t a ton of money there.

I chose the scenario for simplicity (I'd also bet we could get more than a first for him, which kind of goes the other direction), but yeah, I'll concede that one. It's relatively minor, but not inconsequential.

no ****ing way we are getting the 9th pick in the draft for Jones. ESPN “experts” were saying a 2nd rounder.

man the quality of players we acquire in the draft that make us happy is vastly different these days.

Winning more Super Bowls is #1 priority. Mahomes had a good year behind this OL. Some minor upgrades should be good enough. Especially as much as he rolls out of the pocket.
How many passes did Jones knock down which caused the end of a drive in the Super Bowl?
An elite player such as Chris Jones is much more important than an OL when you have an elite QB.

And experts don’t know shit at this point.

Yeah...the 2nd best DL in the NFL is only worth a 2nd rounder.

Maybe KC can flip that pick for the 5th or 6th rated DL rookie...

Can the Chiefs offer the Rams a 2nd for Darnold...or Mack?

KC can push money into the future...and the cap will continue to grow. QB contracts might be completely re-worked with the new CBA.

Keep Jones/Pennel and let your role players get paid elsewhere....Breeland/Fuller. Draft CBs...they have 3 picks in the top 64.

Premiere DL is just too hard to find...

Remember how pissed we were when King Carl traded Jared Allen because he didn’t want to pay him? Ended up getting Jamal Charles and Brandon Albert with the pics in the trade. Veach is way way better in making the right picks than King Carl. Just sayin.

That's what people are saying. Jared Allen got a 1st and two 3rds. Khalil Mack got the Raiders a stupid ****ing amount of draft picks. Frank Clark got a 1st and a 2nd.

ESPN thinks it's appropriate that Chris Jones only gets a 2nd?

Must have been "Bring your idiot babbling toddler to work" Day in Bristol, CT

The core of KC's defense should be HB, Clark, Jones and Pennel. Everyone else is expendable/replaceable.

Spags has had an entire year to evaluate his roster...it'll be an interesting draft. Landing a play-making LBer would go a long way...

They’re not expendable though.

You can’t roll out Phillip Gaines and 300 year old Ron Parker.

What about Marcus Cooper? He’s probably available. Hell just fill them in with an XFL secondary.

If it’s that way man. Damien Wilson is better than Reggie Ragland. That’s not nothing.

I just saw a mock where 3 of the top 10 picks were DL...3 QBs and 3 OT.

Where would Jones be drafted...knowing what we know now? Top 5...Chiefs need to keep him.

Man I’d sure like to. I just don’t think it’s in the cards

Maaaan, I disagree... In fact, I've seen a few different ways that the HOW happens. We really don't know a ton before the new CBA happens. Most folks aren't thinking about that part.

The goal is to repeat and Jones cap hit won't be $20M this year. Clark's cap hit this past season was $6.5 so I would expect Jones's cap number to be fairly low the first 2 years then go up exponentially after that. But by that time the new CBA and TV deals will be done.

I can't believe people are so willingly to let home grown elite talent get away.

I think a lot the groundwork was laid when Clark was signed. I just don't know how you can pay 2 dudes on a 4 dude DL at the top of the market.

Part of it is there remains a lot of apprehension (myself included) due to the whole Houston/Berry ****fests. My god those were bad contracts. The results of which we're still feeling.

What's the success rate of picks 15-32? I bet it isn't very high.

So all of you want to give up Chris Jones to take a shot or two in the dark, plus sign a couple mid-tier players that we didn't need this year anyways. Or resign Watkins who is barely completes a season anymore.


Would all of you be happy with what Seattle got for Frank Clark? Because this is what happens in the draft. You never know what you're going to get. It's easy to say "draft a tackle, CB and MLB and you fix 3 positions for the cost of 1!" Shit doesn't work out like that and you're likely to miss with most of the draft picks. Yeah, "trust Veach" is popular right now but all it takes is a couple misses for you all to shit on him.

Chiefs trade:
1st round pick (2019, 29th overall)
3rd round pick (2019, 92nd overall)
2nd round pick (2020)


Seahawks trade:
Defensive end Frank Clark
3rd round pick (2019, 84th overall)

Over the course of draft weekend, the unidentified pieces were unveiled. The Seahawks stayed in place and used the Chiefs extra first round pick on L.J. Collier. In the third round, the Chiefs stayed in place and grabbed small-school defensive lineman Khalen Saunders. A few picks later, the Seahawks traded the Chiefs former third round pick along with a fifth to move up and take Utah linebacker Cody Barton.


"All season long, Collier has struggled to get on the field despite being drafted to fill the very presence of the player they traded away in Frank Clark. So far, Collier has 2 tackles in 140 total snaps, playing sparingly over a total of 9 games. For some games, he’s been a healthy scratch."

"In fact, until a recent injury to Kendricks, Barton had scarcely earned any defensive snaps in an actual game. Through 11 games, he’d been a solid special teams contributor but only had 7 snaps to his name. He filled in for Kendricks in Week 12 and even started for him thereafter. He then moved to the middle to fill in for Bobby Wagner after he suffered an ankle injury in Week 14."

If we are able to keep Jones and use our first pick on a quality corner like Gladney, Diggs, Johnson, etc? My god. That pass rush with Landlord, Thornhill, Fenton, Ward and a top Corner?

Damn that would be ideal.

Corner, IOL and another receiver with our first 3 picks, then use FA and a mid rd pick on some speed at LB.

Not many big contracts coming up in the near future. A couple next year, maybe. 2021 will free up a ton because we can move on from several high dollar players if we so choose.

2021 Free Agents

Sammy Watkins
Terrell Suggs
Cameron Erving
Patrick Mahomes
Daniel Sorensen
Damien Wilson
Damien Williams
Dustin Colquitt
Austin Reiter
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Anthony Lanier
Elijah McGuire
Devaroe Lawrence
Demone Harris
Gehrig Dieter
Chris Lammons
Darrel Williams
Ben Niemann
Charvarius Ward
Jackson Barton
Alex Brown
Ryan Hunter
Byron Pringle
Emmanuel Smith
Mike Weber
Alize Mack
Kyle Shurmur
Braxton Hoyett
Marcus Marshall
Nick Keizer
Jody Fortson

2022 Free Agents
Tyrann Mathieu
Eric Fisher
Mitchell Schwartz
Travis Kelce
Alex Okafor
Breeland Speaks
Derrick Nnadi
James Winchester
Martinas Rankin
Dorian O'Daniel
Armani Watts
Greg Senat
Darius Harris
Felton Davis
Tim Ward
John Lovett

The Chiefs have to draft well, whether they keep Jones or not. The fact the Seahawks may have whiffed on Collier has no bearing whatsoever on the Chris Jones dilemma in KC. Championship teams draft well. That goes without saying.

When five players account for 58 percent of the team's salary cap, there is virtually no room to account for injuries or under performance within that group. On top of that, the players you're able to put around that group of superstars are less coveted.

Injuries and player performance drop-offs are just too common in the NFL for me to want to create a top-heavy roster in which you're basically all-in on five players.

The 49'ers did it...

The only reason there aren't more teams like that is because most teams don't have 5 players worth those contracts.

So the salary cap is a myth, right? This is the worst argument.

How so? My point was most teams don't have 5 players worth these contracts. Is that not true?

They have 5 dudes with 10M against their cap. We have 8.

And there is a substantial difference between the 14 and 15 that Ford and Buckner will put on there and the 20+ that Jones will have, coupled with Clarks 22.7M.

Note: those are 2020 numbers from overthecap.com

Exactly. It's crazy that Berry is still costing us $8m next year. :shake:

I think it will be a year-by-year deal to not let that happen, assuming we sign Chris Jones.

2020-Chris Jones and Pat Mahomes low cap hit
2021-Extend Kelce and Matheiu. Structure gauranteed money and have their cap hits low for this season.
2022-Schwartz and Fisher are FA’s. Hitchens can be cut

We got $10 million this year from Fisher and Hitchens restructuring salary to signing bonuses. They could do that with Frank Clark one year to free up space too.

Starting to believe we can keep Chris.

We got $10 million in cap relief in the short term, but still have to pay that money in future years. Restructuring just kicks the can down the road to provide immediate relief. It's a band-aid. It does not wipe away the risks an extremely top-heavy roster carries with it.

Yeah but they also have Arik Armstead as a FA this year and Solomon Thomas as a FA next year. They’re going to have to make decisions just like us.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;One thing to keep in mind.. He just won his Super Bowl.. He&#39;s got the ring.. What do people want when they&#39;ve already got the ring? They&#39;re going to get that bag&quot; - former <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Bills</a> All Pro DT Kyle Williams on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> stud DT Chris Jones <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PatMcAfeeShowLIVE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PatMcAfeeShowLIVE</a> <a href="https://t.co/OkSDr8NxVJ">pic.twitter.com/OkSDr8NxVJ</a></p>&mdash; Pat McAfee (@PatMcAfeeShow) <a href="https://twitter.com/PatMcAfeeShow/status/1230152174841233409?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And we’re fourth in the league in dead cap amounts. Fourth because of one ****ing player.

I'm aware of that. I was just responding to Rausch who used them as an example.

Bottom line is math doesn't lie.

If they can make that kind of calculus work, I'd be OK with it.