I would get on board with that and have experienced the same when mocking.

Unless you trade down from 32 to 40-45, it’s hard to take a stab at a corner UNLESS Fulton or Gladney fall. And they usually don’t.

I like Aiyuk. He’s raw but his dynamic ability in space is exciting and is something Reid could use well. With Robinson and Watkins back for 2020, the Chiefs have some coverage to develop him. He’s a better version of N’Keal Harry.

I wouldn't be mad if we took Epenesa, I don't think he's a star but he'll have a nice 10 year career.

Amik Robertson is a 5'8 CB but the dude has a career in the NFL. Wouldn't mind him in the mid rounds.

I’ll also say, I think there is good value at IOL in the 4th round. They could find a quality starter there and a developmental CB in the 5th, and I’d call it a great draft.

I think we need to toss out some of NE's history at this point.

We've never seen BB rebuild a squad. We don't know what he's likely to do in a completely different spot in the competitive cycle.

He may take some much bigger hacks than he's taken in the past. Would he move up for a Justin Herbert, for instance? Or Chaisson? In the past that wouldn't have been his MO, but this is a brave new world for Belichick.

And they're also just early enough that someone like Blacklock may still be there who I think he'd like a little more than Epenesa under his 'traditional' approach.

He's a typical 'Patriot Way' player, but sitting at 23 w/ no quarterback to speak of isn't exactly a 'Patriot Way' situation.

Looking at it today, I don't think so either.

But all it takes is a run on corners or receivers or tackles and guys that shouldn't slide that far down end up doing so because of how the draft shakes out. I think that's where the Chiefs need to capitalize with that 1st round pick.

I think NE ends up with Jake Fromm, he's a guy they can compete with.

The Pats need weapons and O-line too. I could see them going offense in the first.

Put me down for G Cesar Ruiz. I’ll follow the “experts” on this one.

In all seriousness, KC has been screwing around with the LG position far too long. The only way you stop Mahomes is having a ridiculously talented and deep D Line that can pressure him from every angle, without needing to bring additional defenders. Ruiz is a special player, and can play Guard or Center.

Grant Delpit

But they don't have a 2nd rounder. They gonna give up next year's 1 to grab a mid 2nd? Or do you think he falls to the 3rd?

And if he does fall to the 3rd, knowing what we know about the history of 2nd day QBs (that they're really no more likely to succeed than 3rd day guys), do you really want him at that point?

Personally, I'd avoid him and Ruiz. I'm sure they will be overdrafted but I just don't see either guy as 1st rounders let alone, immediate impact players.

Ruiz is 20 years old. Can you imagine the responsibility of being a 20 year old first rounder, whose job is protect the NFL and Super Bowl MVP while being tasked to face the Ravens, Bills, Saints, Bucs and Chargers defense his rookie season?

Remember when there were so many people here pushing for Amobi Okoye, who was 19 years and 10 months old when he was overdrafted? The dude sucked ass and ended up with 12 career sacks in 4 years with the Texans, then bounced around the league for a couple of years and flamed out.

Took him in my hypothetical Chiefs draft in the CP Mock.

And don't think he'll fall to us in the real one.

Love that kid.

Not sure that NE is rebuilding. Sure they lost their QB, but they went 12-4 mostly relying on their defense.

Guessing he would like to get Herbert, but if he goes in the top 6 as most project that is not happening. They do not have enough capitol to move up into the top 6.

Bill will stay the course and take a player that fits his approach.

I can easily see Fromm dropping to the third but I'm not sure if he's a NE guy. He's got small hands and doesn't really seem to be the kind of guy to take over for a legend, although maybe that's the point.

I think a lot of people just don't see "special" when it comes to Ruiz.

He's the best of this draft at IOL, but it's not a particularly strong group.

Improving the OL is important, for sure, but you can improve the IOL with later picks, too.

Counterpoint - they have a guy in Reiter who they won a SB with.

He's not good on balance, but he's a credible pass pro specialist. We should always be looking to upgrade on him, but if Ruiz is the pick and isn't ready, then you just don't play him.

I don't think his age is a problem and in some ways it's a benefit. But ultimately I'd steer clear of him because I just don't think he's that special of a player. He's getting that 'Cameron Erving' stink on him where he's slowly moving up draft boards for no reason I can see and you hear the 'versatility' thing thrown around as a justification.

Delpit, HB and (a 100%) Thornhill would be just sick. Not only would Spagnuolo have a field day with those guys but Delpit's speed and athleticism would likely cover any deficiencies the Chiefs secondary might face this year or in the next few years.

I think Veach might have fumble fingers trying to call in the pick if Delpit was there at #32 due to the adrenaline rush.

Ruiz is at the bottom of any of my list because he’s an IOL, but I don’t see what you guys are seeing. He’s easily a top 40 player and would be a solid pick.

We’re picking at 32. Most likely, nobody there is going to be a 1st round player. There are probably 20-25 of those guys in any given draft. That’s just the reality of it.

I don’t see Ruiz being there. Apparently Philly loves that guy and has gone by the model of drafting fatties for quite awhile. Seems to be what Reid instilled there.

I also have a hard time seeing the Ravens pass on Espenesa. Yeah they need a LB, but they want pass rush. I’ve been following them more-so than most teams besides us bc they are our biggest competition.

I’ve seen it stated many times that they want to bolster their pass rush in the draft and FA, which they already started with the addition of Wolfe and Campbell.

Pretty interesting to see several AFC teams acquiring interior rushers and wanting to upgrade their pass rush overall. It’s almost as if they watched the Super Bowl and are trying to recreate SF’s front 4 bc it gave Mahomes more problems than any defense he’s played in his career.

Good luck trying to replicate the 49ers without Bosa then.

Wow - people have Herbert back up that high? I just figured it was draft-time rabble trying to find something to talk about.

"Could Herbert be a better pro than Tua?" and then 2,000 words of general nonsense.

I still figured he could slide to the 10-12 range and NE could get up there w/ next year's 1. Then the question is whether or not he's really a BB kind of guy. He's more Bledsoe than Brady; seems to play behind the clock a bit - nowhere near the anticipation of Brady. He's everything you could ask for physically but he's not as intuitive.

I'm just happy it's a Patriot problem and not ours.

Yeah, that's kinda like "We'll just turn our offense into a track team..." without Mahomes.

There's no '49ers front' without Bosa. And frankly, their willingness to trade Buckner confirms that. They know what made that line go and that they can get plenty of production even after losing a very good player because they still have the motor to propelled it.

This sums up my feelings on the center position in this year's draft.

Reiter's fine in Pass Pro and the Chiefs just won the Super Bowl with him. I do agree that they should always look for upgrades (which I think is a given with Veach) and grabbing a developmental guy late would be an ideal way to prep for the future, but it's not exactly necessary this year.

The irony is that the same exact people posting here saying the Chiefs need a center also say the Chiefs don't need a running back because "They're a passing team, not a running team". So if that's the case (which is a ridiculous assertion to make because if the Chiefs can't run the ball, they won't be able to pass it either because teams will just load up and rush Mahomes all game long), why draft a Center when the strength to Reiter's game is his Pass Pro?

The bottom line for me is that while the Chiefs could use an upgrade at center, it's way down the list of priorities in the 2020 draft.

I can't decide if it's what I prefer or if it's what I think, but I'd enjoy seeing Epenesa on the other end from 55.

The good news is that there isn't a glaring, must-fill hole on the team and they can catch a good value. I'd assume they will trade back.

I think if I was going to go the guys I think could very well could be our pick...

I'm coming around to Xavier McKinney and Grant Delpit being very viable options with Swift right there.

Give me Delpit, Aiyuk and Gay in the first three rounds and put Veach in the ring of honor.

Ever since DJ brought up the possibility in the CP Mock thread it’s been an intriguing option to me.

I honestly think he’s going to be there, so it will be interesting to see if we pass or not.

If McKinney, Delpit and Swift are sitting there at #32 or wherever the Chiefs select, I'm taking Delpit and not looking back.

I was told this was a bad take yesterday :facepalm:

I can just imagine the State Farm commercials 😂

Well yeah you’re not going to have him. Doesn’t mean they aren’t effective. If the Ravens take Espenesa and have Judon, Wolfe, Campbell and Espenesa up front, that’s pretty goddamn good.

It’s a copycat league and FA showed us that teams are trying to copy the Chiefs and 49ers. That’s why the Colts traded for Buckner, Broncos trades for Casey, Raiders signed Collins, and Ravens trades for Campbell & signed Wolfe.

The Ravens and Broncos are literally trying to copy us. Just watch next week. I guarantee both teams will draft multiple speed receivers to bulk up their roster and help their QB like we do with our trio.

Such is life in the NFL

Good luck trying to replicate us without Mahomes...

And Reid...

You gotta stop worrying about what these other teams do man. We’ve got a SB roster and our badass GM has a 1st round pick for the first time. We’re going to get better too.

Delpit has some serious speed and range which I love...the only thing McKinney could do he can't is give you some nickel LB reps.

I love the idea of getting Delpit, but I have a question for you guys.

Do you really think they’re going to take a safety? I mean that almost certainly means they’re going to cut Dirty Dan and I just get the sense that they love the guy and he’ll be here next year playing his role, not a 1st rounder.

I’d love to be wrong, just my guy feeling.

What’s the feeling here about Jeremy Chinn?

Is he a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick?


How about Kyle Dugger?

I think Dan would hang around to finish his contract but after this year he's 31, the only way he would return is if he took a paycut and basically became more of a specials guy and his D role was more limited as he is aging.

Sorensen is what....30? And on the last year of his deal, I believe. Delpit can step in and replace either Thornhill or Mathieu if we need too.

This is just one snap from last season, but we have a late round IOL in Allegretti who could be ready for either C or G?


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/Gretti_53?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Gretti_53</a> #73 playing TE on the right side here gets his first NFL pancake and promptly sprints off the field a little jacked up ! �� <a href="https://t.co/NdVPqe7Yaa">pic.twitter.com/NdVPqe7Yaa</a></p>&mdash; Olin kreutz (@olin_kreutz) <a href="https://twitter.com/olin_kreutz/status/1185000396735037440?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It's from this article:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/25/ka...-list-analysis

I don't see it either.

I think its JK Dobbins. Just getting 5 years out of running back on cheap will be huge for Mahomes.

I just think they’re going to want an immediate impact. They’re all-in on a repeat.

Again, I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t see them going in that direction for that reason. It’s also the reason why I’m kinda buying all the smoke on a RB. I still don’t think they do that, but when trying to project wha this team is going to do in the 1st, I can’t help but think getting an immediate impact is priority #1.

Why wouldn't you take Swift in that spot then?

Not 5 years, 4 years, tops.

FAPFAPFAPFAPFAP

Any mock that has allowed me to do that has gone EXACTLY that way. Doesn't happen often; Delpit slides that far maybe one in 4 times, Aiyuk about the same (Gay's usually there in the 3rd still).

I don't think I could draw up a more ideal set of outcomes for me. Solomon Kindley falls into the 4th on fair occasion and I'd sprint to the podium there (even if he does need some work in pass pro). Alton Robinson has an outside shot there as well and he'd also be a great pick by the 4th. Veach pulls that off somehow and I couldn't care less what happens in the 5th. Ke'Shawn Vaughn as a between the tackles option?

So who do y'all think is the best possible RB available to the Chiefs in the 2nd? 3rd?

Swift is obviously out. Likely Dobbins. Could Taylor be there? Maaaaaaaybe. In the 3rd you're looking at maybe Akers and Edwards-Helaire, right? And that's not to say I think those guys will be there, but rather that they're the best case scenario option. I don't think it's IMPOSSIBLE that Taylor falls to the late 2nd or Akers to the late 3rd.

Edwards Helaire probably goes in the 2nd, I think it's roughly 50/50 that any RB's go in the 1st but once 1 goes there may be a mini run. Taylor has elite open field speed so he's probably going to be the 1st or 2nd rb taken.

If the Chiefs are truly going BPA, and knowing there are other running backs and WR's available early that can make an early impact, I can see them taking Delpit.

While Sorensen can finish out his contract, continue to ace Special Teams and occasionally drop into the 3rd Down LB role, Delpit can move all over the field and more importantly, cover TE's and taller WR's like Mike Williams.

I mean, 6'3, 4.39 40 coupled with his football instincts and IQ? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

I think it's pretty interesting that they added another RB and brought back Breeland so close to the draft.

I want to say they're going to target a fatty. Either hoping a tackle falls that they can play at Guard for awhile.

Andy loves taking some fatties.

I think our best options for RB are Akers in round 2 or Moss/Gibson is round 3. Maybe we get lucky and one of Dobbins or CEH falls to us in the 2nd or somehow Akers makes it to us in round 3 (even less likely IMO).

After that, I’m likely waiting till round 5 and taking the RB steal of the draft in Deejay Dallas.

Washington isn't a starter, he's basically a 3rd down back.

I think if anything that move tells me the Chiefs aren't happy with their RB position in general.

In 7 years, how much have the Chiefs invested in their interior line?

Again, that's like going out and getting Brandin Cooks, Tyler Boyd, Evan Engram to pair with Derek Carr and saying "there, we've rebuilt the Chiefs offense..."

You haven't. You've found reasonable facsimiles and a lot of nice players that make for a really good group, but it isn't going to duplicate the one fire-breathing monster that exists in this league.

The Ravens can try to do what the 49ers have done if they'd like, but they don't have the force multiplier they need to make it happen. Wolfe was never elite, Campbell's past his prime, Judon's a nice player and Epenesa is a good player but unlikely to be a truly great one.

Ravens can purse that front if they want, but they'll fail.

Best overall RB Swift.

Best inside zone, Taylor.

Best outside zone, Dobbins.

I would take Swift but Dobbins fits what we would want him to do very well. Dobbins is devastating on those plays.

Some folks really REALLY like Chinn. And man I want to.

But I can't find a role for him that isn't strictly situational. He's like some bastard child of Dirty Dan and Dorian O'Daniel. Which may be a damn good football player.

But the hell if I feel like trying to find a role for him. That's just making your defense that much more difficult to play 'straight up' with.

I'd take him in the 3rd if he were there (he won't be), but because I specifically cannot find a way to use him outside of a situational role and because he has some small school concerns, I just don't think I could talk myself into using the 2 you'd likely need to burn to get him.

He has Isiah Simmons athletic makeup, and in todays sub heavy NFL he likely plays a lot but you better be damn sure a guy who spent a lot of time at safety is up to playing weakside LB and sub package LB cause that's what youre drafting him to be and that transition doesn't always work...

That's why I like him so much.

A) I think of it almost like adding another CB because it frees up Mathieu to do whatever you want with him and HB LOVED that hybrid role as the season went on last year.

B) Take him in the first and you have him for 5 years. He can pair with Thornhill in a couple years when Mathieu is let go for cap reasons. It opens the door a crack for being able to keep Jones in the cap structure (by losing Mathieu).

The nice thing about Delpit is he can play single high which allows you take take advantage of having 2 other safeties that can do some CB stuff.

On the lines in general, they've invested quite a bit.

Cesar Ruiz

It was. And still is.

Prior to that they had basically Williams and Thompson. So not sure who would be happy if something happened to Williams.


The thing about the Chiefs offense is that it probably does not drop off at all if you had to go with a good third down back playing full time. Rather go that route then a pure running back who has trouble in the passing game.

Defensive line yes, OL not really..

In Andy Reids entire time here we have 1, 1st round OL, 1 second, and the rest were late round picks...

Yeah, and you'd better be real confident in the guys you have backing up Spags (should he leave/retire) and coaching up your secondary.

Because Chinn does appear to be a 1st down 'box' safety who you can maybe keep out there on 2nd downs and then move him into that Sorenseon '3rd safety/hybrid linebacker' role on 3rd downs.

Which I'd honestly like to see us getting away from a bit. Gimme an athletic linebacker who I can keep on the field on 3rd downs (Gay or Harrison) over a stiffer safety who I have to hide at LBer on 3rd downs.

And again - I admit that this is likely just a product of me being unwilling to stray too far from convention. But I think you make your teams awfully matchup dependent when you add too many guys like Chinn and I wouldn't want to take him in lieu of an 'easier' fit if one exists.

Personally I think Damian is safe but it's likely his last year here....the rest of that room is wide open, no one has shown enough to be safe.

All 3 could play CB in a pinch.

You can make your coverages nearly impossible to diagnose. There's just some really fascinating shit a mad tinkerer like Spags could do.

There are probably at least 10 teams that think Chinn is an everydown LB.

And aggressively went after Schwartz in FA.

"Something" happens to Williams each and every year, which is why he has 1,200 rushing yards in 6 NFL seasons.

In no way, shape or form should the Chiefs fool themselves into believing that a 28 year old Damien Williams is suddenly going to be available for all 16 games, let alone 19 games.

Like the Colts game last year?

:facepalm:

If you want to see 16 Chiefs-Colts-like games in 2020, go into the season with the current crop of below average running backs.

I don't doubt it.

But like I said, a 220 lb small-school safety is no slam dunk to make the conversion to LBer at the next level.

People fall in love with the Brian Urlacher story and he's the benchmark for college safety conversions, but that dude weighed 250 lbs in college.

There are a LOT more examples of oversized safeties/undersized linebackers simply never finding a role. A lot more of these guys become Dorian O'Daniel or Taylor Mays. If you're lucky.

I won't argue loudly with those that like him - I see why they do. He's just not my thing.

I think you’re selling Chinn short DJ. The guy gives you versatility like a guy like Delpit does, just in a different form.

Dude was covering AJ Brown two years ago and holding his own. He’s a legitimate chess piece with freakish athleticism and a lot of ball production.

Aggressively? I don't recall that happening.

Jeff Allen and Donald Stephenson signed elsewhere at the start of free agency, so Dorsey targeted Schwartz, who already had a deal in place with the Browns. His brother convinced him to take less money once the Chiefs contacted his agent because they both felt KC was a better fit for him than Cleveland.

But the Chiefs weren't outbidding teams.

All that said, Reid appears to be content with drafting guys late and grooming them to fit his specific needs, to which he's had quite a bit of success, so it's a bit difficult to see him suddenly shift philosophies and draft a guy high when there are so many other areas that could be upgraded immediately.

I don't recall it happening like that. Think the Browns just let him walk because *shrugs* and the Chiefs/Geoff did a hard courting press to land him because they couldn't offer the best contract. Then again, 5 years ago or however long ago feels like 30 years ago right now.

You mean like Left Guard?

The Browns yanked their offer, though - IIRC. They had a weird front office situation and when he was sitting on their offer, they pulled it.

Though I agree with you that they weren't out there looking to re-set the RT market. We recognized at the time they got him at/below market price.

They knew they needed a RT and got the best one available at a good price. Was that an 'aggressive pursuit'? Eh...not terribly so. Certainly not what they did with guys like Wakings and Clark, or even Mathieu (who they appeared to be unwilling to take 'no' on).

I suppose we might struggle in games where we do not have Hill and Watson on the outside.

I just think that Washington is going to be a good backup for Williams. Not sure there will be much fall off when he is in. Not like Williams was a star or every down back in Miami. Hopefully Thompson makes a jump as well.

Nope, it happened as I described. You can find the story on NFL.com and on Geoff Schwartz Twitter feed if you're so inclined.

Browns fans were dissing Schwartz and his agent on Geoff's Twitter feed because he turned down more money to leave the Browns, lol.

Did you watch the Colts game last season? McCoy was slightly effective but fumbled. The Colts ravaged Mahomes the entire game because they didn't have a running game, leading to a 19-13 loss.

Hopes and Ifs don't win NFL games

The point still stands the Chiefs have been fine not overly investing in OL why would they start now?

Martinas Rankin looked very solid last year in limited duty and he should be a very solid piece moving forward.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/201...tchell_sc.html



Maybe :shrug:

I'm not making the case that going Guard is the best move, which isn't the case. I'm just preparing myself for it happening because I just won't be surprised if they take a lineman of some sort is all.

Because the True Fans never went away. They just went into hiding.

I really thought this nonsense would end with Mahomes throwing 50 TD's behind a line of mostly backups in 2018 but here we are in 2020 and it's back, like it never went away.

I've had guys argue with me that center is more important than running back, even though the Chiefs don't have shit at the RB position heading into this season.

It's like we've time-warped back to 2007.