You mean, an NFL offense?

Well that's a no shit, my argument is that there's a lot to like about his debut, and very little reason to hate. He didn't do anything that should cause doubt.

Woulda, shoulda coulda. Great throws are made every week that, "If the defender did this..."

That's a shit excuse. The defender didn't, and Herbert put it in a place where his receiver could make the catch. The only other location he coulda put that ball was on the back shoulder.

Wentz isn't in any of these arguments, Eagles fans are tired of him. He's always hurt and he fumbles constantly.

Carson Wentz through 2 weeks:
- Passer grade 42.7 (worst in league)
- Sacked 8 times (worst in league)
- 4 INTs (tied worst with Cousins)
- 64.4 passer rating (4th worst)
- 13 poor throws (2nd worst in league)
- 32.9 % on target throws (tied 6th worst)

In 5 seasons Carson Wentz has 0 playoff wins, 50 fumbles. He is 7-20 vs teams over 500.

I had to double check that fumble stat. Holy shit.

The only thing i'm passionate about here is evaluating players fairly.

Division rival players almost never get a fair shake on this board, and QB's most certainly don't ever since Mahomes.

I'm still trying to get an answer to my original question of, "What did he do wrong?"

My statement is simple: He did a lot of things really well, and 1 or two things wrong. He showed great tools and looks promising until proven otherwise. He didn't do anything in that game to suggest he's a bad player.

And i would not be surprised at all to see him light up the lowely Panthers.

Who's more accurate? Tyrod or the Doctor?

Trick question....we all know it's FREAKING BUTTKICKER!!

Herbert is one of those guys who will show greatness then look like complete ass, he did it constantly in college.

Exactly! This is why I’m going to trust my evaluation of him and be patient.

.... which is where it should have went. It wasn’t a good throw.

Probably the best thing that could happen to the Chargers, now they know they've got something in Herbert.

Sucks that he won't get playing time cause his Head Coach is a dumbass.

Considering where they drafted him I'd think they already thought they had something.

You’re not a good QB in the NFL until you show the ability to hit the intermediate throws. Those are the toughest to do consistently and he missed plenty Sunday.

He cost them the game with a really poor decision on the interception. Rookie mistake, sure. But as you said, “woulda coulda shoulda”...

I don’t hate what I saw. I just don’t love it. And if I’m to bet on him being really good or materializing into a bust, I’ll take the latter.

What evidence do you have from that 1 game that would make you lean the latter?

It was a great job for his first game considering zero preseason games and only a limited number of touches in prep.

Okay, I got curious. Since the AFL/NFL merger, 163 quarterbacks have started 48 or more games (three full modern seasons). The worst ten quarterbacks in terms of fumbles per game started are:

Josh McCown 1.066
Jack Trudeau 1.061
Don Majkowski 1.035
Daunte Culpepper 1.020
Tony Banks 0.936
David Carr 0.899
Kurt Warner* 0.879
Jon Kitna 0.879
Dave Krieg 0.874 (small hands)
Carson Wentz 0.862

Nine of those have a few or a fair number of games played as backups, which will inflate their stats a bit. Wentz is the only one not in that situation since he has never entered a game as a backup.

If we look at fumbles per game played, here are the worst ten. It's actually mostly the same list, but Wentz rockets up to 2nd-worst.

Daunte Culpepper 0.971
Carson Wentz 0.862
Kurt Warner* 0.823
Josh McCown 0.794
Jack Trudeau 0.776
Warren Moon* 0.774
Jon Kitna 0.773
Tony Banks 0.760
David Carr 0.755
Dave Krieg 0.718

Good ole "Baby Hands" Krieg. I always forget about that guy.

So who are the most surehanded QBs, you may ask? Here's the list of fewest fumbles per start and per game appearance. Don't shake hands with Chad Henne because he'll crush every bone in your hand.

It's interesting that the list includes a lot of all-timers. I presume that this indicates good pocket awareness. It also may be a hidden advantage of the West Coast Offense if you take fewer strip sacks.

Fran Tarkenton is darn impressive on this list given that he was a running quarterback, and this may be the first and only time you'll see Joey Harrington on an NFL top-ten list.

Fumbles per start

Bert Jones 0.167
Fran Tarkenton* 0.267
Peyton Manning 0.291
Ken Anderson 0.302
Joe Namath* 0.308
Jim McMahon 0.309
Chad Henne 0.321
Billy Kilmer 0.321
Joe Montana* 0.323
Joey Harrington 0.329

Fumbles per game appearance

Bert Jones 0.157
Mike Pagel 0.220
Mike Tomczak 0.227
Charley Johnson 0.244
Chad Henne 0.250
Joe Theismann 0.251
Jim McMahon 0.252
Vince Ferragamo 0.253
Norm Snead 0.262
Fran Tarkenton* 0.267

Not that one game, his entire college career.

He looked good to me...

No reps (if Chargers PR is being truthful)...looked poised and had some nice NFL throws.

If he had just run for the 1st instead of the INT...he likely beats Mahomes in his first start. They definitely had some "home cooking", late...but he still threw for over 300.

You look for "flashes" with a rookie...he played way better than I thought he would.

I hear he was inconsistent in college...have a great game then suck. We'll see...

And, now we know why coach is going with Tyrod... likely a big PR and financial nightmare if Tyrod lost his job due to the doc doing that. So, they'll let Tryod just lose it outright and we'll see Herbert in a few weeks.

Patrick Mahomes II isn't on the list since he has less than 48 career starts. But let's look at our Chiefs quarterbacks who have started 16 or more games since the merger. (Stats for guys who played before and after 1970 include only their 1970+ stats, by the way.)

If we threw Mahomes onto the big list and waived the fact that he has fewer than 48 starts so far, he would rank 18th of 163. So yes, he's good at hanging onto the ball in addition to being the greatest quarterback in NFL history.

Here's the fumbles per start:

Joe Montana* 0.320
Alex Smith 0.329
Elvis Grbac 0.340
Patrick Mahomes 0.364
Steve DeBerg 0.385
Trent Green 0.466
Mike Livingston 0.478
Steve Bono 0.484
Len Dawson* 0.518
Bill Kenney 0.558
Matt Cassel 0.638
Dave Krieg 0.762
Rich Gannon 0.789
Todd Blackledge 0.792
Damon Huard 0.810
Steve Fuller 0.935

Here's the fumbles per game:

Joe Montana* 0.320
Elvis Grbac 0.327
Alex Smith 0.329
Steve DeBerg 0.351
Patrick Mahomes 0.364
Len Dawson* 0.382
Steve Bono 0.405
Bill Kenney 0.406
Mike Livingston 0.407
Trent Green 0.466
Todd Blackledge 0.475
Rich Gannon 0.556
Steve Fuller 0.558
Dave Krieg 0.571
Matt Cassel 0.625
Damon Huard 0.654

Hmm...maybe. Taylor knows he's a place-keeper until Herbert is ready. Their fans...all 7 of them...wanted him to start even before this happened.

Could he sue...possibly...doubt he would though.

I've tried to forget but somehow, I'm always reminded of him.

Tyrod is being advised to sit out indefinitely. I dont know if that means hes out for sure.

I told you guys this was a serious procedure. It should have never been done on a ****ing sideline.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Doctors have advised Tyrod Taylor not to play &quot;indefinitely” due to his punctured lung. The Chargers were hoping Taylor would be able to start Sunday, but doctors are against it. <a href="https://t.co/FHm7aJXC8o">https://t.co/FHm7aJXC8o</a></p>&mdash; Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1308800490604572672?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 23, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If he had a rib injury bad enough to need an injection...and now has a punctured lung...probably a smart move.

Sometimes strange things happen...like K.Hunt being forced to start. Maybe it was meant to be...

Who the **** argued that it wasn't dangerous?

Or that it was done on the sideline?

[QUOTE=staylor26;15188063]I liked Watson and Lamar. I drafted Lamar in the CP Mock.

I know you are just going to brush it off, but I’m rarely wrong about QB’s I trust my evaluation.

Sorry, but I’m not going to say anything beyond “he looked good for a rookie making his first start”, because I’m still as skeptical as I was when I watched the tape.[/

Didn’t you like Paxton lynch too?

If the DR was an Oregon State grad, he would have punctured both of Herbert's lungs and then kneed him in the groin. **** the Ducks.

[QUOTE=jonzie04;15188333]No. I thought he had the talent and the tape, but like I told Broncos fans as soon as they drafted him, he was too stupid to succeed in the NFL. Hearing him talk and the Wonderlic were a deal breaker for me.

As staylor alluded to, I base it mostly on the belief I had about Herbert coming out of college. I did not believe he was worthy of a top 10 pick.

He doesn’t have ‘it’. The intangible things that great QBs have, none of it is there. So a decent outing in a game where the other team didn’t prep for him at all doesn’t change my mind... yet.

wasnt saying people in here. Sorry, my bad. The comments in social media.

It’s not a routine, more of a common procedure. Same basic procedure to deal with a collapsed lung. It will endanger your life but you can fix what could go wrong rather easily and quickly in a hospital environment.

But, of course what made it dangerous was being on the sidelines without the ability to deal with stuff that could go wrong. You can function with one lung for awhile.

Sure you've never made a mistake

like I said not routine but a common procedure. I’d be involved in 3-4 a week. I’d guess estimate about 5% didn’t go according to plan. Even with good doctors. But, we were prepared with counter measures and the procedure went on as planned.

Never flinch! Tyrod throws int's and Docs sometime go too deep.

Team Doc knew it was the only way to separate coach from starting qb. It was an intervention to let coach see that the rook was twice the qb than the starter. Sadly for the chargers that attachment seems permenate.

Tyrod Taylor could get Rich from this.......by doing Flex Seal Commercials.

After rewatching the first half of the chargers game, I think coach Lynn may have been right. Herbert kind of lucked out in that first half. We should've picked him at least once, maybe twice and he made some bad decisions throwing the ball that probably cost them points. Definitely cost them 1st downs. At least one of those plays the ball was definitely supposed to go to Keenan who was wide open, but Herbert either didn't see him, or he tried to "go for it all" and not only didn't complete the pass, but Thornhill should've intercepted it. Plus that guy was doubled, he shouldn't have thrown the ball there anyway.

Yeah, get a bidding war going with Gorilla Glue. Retire on the beach without having to risk a LB wanting to take your head off.

Travolta not available?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/b471...temid=10066915

I wonder how quickly they knew that he had his lung collapsed? Wonder what Tyrod's reaction was lol

It hurts. To breathe mainly. He knew instantly something was really wrong. My dad said that when it happened to me my eyes nearly bugged out of my head.

DEFLATEGATE

Fixaflat is $3.99 at Casey’s
sec

Replay on NFLN at 7.

I have to laugh about Lynn saying, "There's a reason he's a backup", and then two days later he has to announce that Herbert is starting again.

The chargers dont get enough injuries, so they have to self inflict???

Pat played a great defense and made plays down the stretch to win the game.

KC was down like 5 starters and multiple back ups. I lost track of the missed tackles. Every 3 yard pass was a missed tackle or three and a 15 yard gain.

What I saw was bad defense more than good QB play. Even chris jones was awful.

Even taylor could have piled up stats with 3 yard checkdowns going 30 yards. If they stink it up like this on monday it will get flat out ugly.

Maybe that's why the Chargers are always getting injured.

They ****ing hired Dr Kevorkian!

This was my thought. I'm a fan of irony.

This procedure is done in clinics as well, just you typically use ultrasound guidance.
What happened is a defined risk of the procedure, you are injecting to numb a nerve that is just superficial to the lungs.

It would depend on how Tyrod consented. Maybe Tyrod was pushing to have the procedure done so he could play. We have no idea.

Brady had a transfer valve installed for just such a situation if his lung collapsed, he could re-inflate it by transferring his Ego gas to his lungs.

Has any sports team ever been as plagued by injuries year in and year out as the Chargers are?

I wonder if they aren't really injured, and their quack doctor is misdiagnosing them.

Quack: That looks like an ACL tear.
Player: I'm fine. My knee is bent because I'm sitting down.
Quack: ACL tear! ACL tear! Let's do surgery!

Herbert looks so good! LMAO

The NFL has released video footage of the meeting between the Chargers' team doctor and Tyrod Taylor:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Leaked footage of the Chargers team doctor taking care of Tyrod Taylor <a href="https://t.co/PRHj8RRmQV">pic.twitter.com/PRHj8RRmQV</a></p>&mdash; NFL Memes (@NFL_Memes) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL_Memes/status/1308800722264305665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 23, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>