If the Eagles would have won the SB over the Patriots, TO’s broken leg Super Bowl game would have been legendary

I forgot about Kirk Gibson in 88. That has to be right at the top as well

Agreed

https://media0.giphy.com/media/dmzMAGqhCDTzy/giphy.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/l46Cq...FPLW/giphy.gif
https://media0.giphy.com/media/C4YFuLE3mqvo4/giphy.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/d3MLV...0IBG/giphy.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/l46CA...PZQY/giphy.gif
https://media4.giphy.com/media/l3q2J...AmyY/giphy.gif
https://media1.giphy.com/media/VIVWF...LwWB/giphy.gif

Having watched MJ in his prime and later LeBron, it's absurd to put the latter on the same scale as Jordan.
The eye test alone showed me how Jordan was on a different tier as a player. Watching him play was like watching a joystick character in a video game. He played the game with such elegance, made moves that blew your mind, was always so clutch and dominant. Jordan had 10 scoring titles and in one season won both the scoring title and defensive player of the year. Crazy. LeBron is his own version of dominant but the guy lacks that clutch gene Jordan had. He is a great all around player but he doesn't have that IT factor to me. Kobe was the closest I saw that came close to Jordan.

And in the NFL, Mahomes is the equivalent of what MJ was for the NBA. This isn't me as a Chiefs fan saying it but countless other fans who follow the sport. The throw Mahomes made in the SB being paralel to the ground, nobody else can make that throw.
Watching Pat play is like going back in time and watching Jordan play for the Bulls. What a time to be alive.

And yet if Draymond Green had played game 5, Golden State probably wins that championship.

This, imagine if free agency in Jordan's era would allow him to assemble talent in different cities every 5 years or so...

Speaking of GOATs, John Force is a freakin' Leviathan. Picked up another final today.

Why would he need to? He had 3 HOFers brought to him by the GM he oddly despised. The mid to late 90s Bulls were the most stacked team in history other than the KD Warriors.

:rolleyes:

What a dumb statement. Krause traded for Pippen before he was ever anything. He became the player he was WITH the Bulls. Rodman came there for the second 3 peat because no one else wanted him and they badly needed a rebounder.

Jordan didn’t get together with Barkley and a few other guys and say ‘hey, let’s all go form a super team and dominate the NBA’. He wanted to prove it on his OWN team. He desired to BEAT the best, not join them to beat others. He wanted to beat Barkley (which he did, the year Barkley won MVP and the Suns had the best record in the NBA). Jordan never attempted to take the easy way out (like you know who did) by leaving Chicago and going somewhere where a new GM would simply acquiesce to his every desire.

Jordan was very arrogant, but he was also prideful and stubborn and wanted to do it his way. He wanted to win so badly he made everyone else around him on the Bulls miserable half the time. But they all got to reap the benefits of 6 titles by him doing things his way. Even if they had to put up with his B.S.

You never saw Jordan walk off the court pouting before the end of a game, because it wasn’t in his nature. He would just quietly stare at his opponent and tell them, sometimes verbally, you may have gotten me this time but I will ****ing bury your ass next time I see you. That was Jordan, like him or hate him. But you had to respect him. He wanted to win more than anyone else did, which is why he never lost an NBA Finals and dominated the NBA for almost a decade span.

You can have all the numbers and everything else. I’m sure a LOT of guys will have better numbers than Jordan when it’s all said and done. Part of that is Jordan only played 14 full NBA season. Part of it is Jordan didn’t really care about numbers. They were merely circumstantial. He cared about them only from the standpoint of translating to wins on the basketball court. That’s all the dude wanted to do: win. And if others around him didn’t want it as bad as him it pissed him off. So he pushed you till you did. Even if it made you miserable.

And that’s why the ‘flu game’ is so great. It was such a big moment, in a game the Bulls REALLY did need to win to guarantee another of those 6 titles. Whether he had the ‘flu’ or food poisoning or whatever, it didn’t matter. He just wanted to win and he was going to do everything he could to make sure it happened.

That is why MOST consider him the greatest and always will.

The guy, much like our own Patrick Mahomes, is all about winning more than anything else. Numbers are great, but their meaningless if you don’t finish on top. That’s who Jordan was through and through.

It’s why we’re so lucky to have a guy like Mahomes and should be thankful every day that he landed in KC!

LMAO :facepalm:

The only reason that team is remotely comparable to KD’s Warriors is because MJ was so ****ing good/dominant. That team doesn’t win 1 championship without him, more or less 6.

How many HOFers has Lebron played with throughout his career?

NBA players were trying in the 90s to create super teams. Barkley wanted to go the Bulls in 1996. Krause wouldn't give up Kukoc for him. We all know its bullshit when they say they wouldn't do it because you know they would if they had the opportunities like now.

Even if this were true, which I have never read anything confirming this (Barkley to Bulls), Sir Charles was near the end of his career and not by any means in his prime. Lots of guys had been doing this in the NBA for years (signing with better teams at the end of their career to try and win a ring before they retired). It wasn’t about forming a ‘super team’. It was ring shopping for an aging veteran, nothing more. Barkley MAY have wanted to go to the Bulls (who just won their first title in the second 3 peat) in 96, I don’t know, but not sure the interest was mutual. You noticed Barkley ended up signing with the Houston Rockets. The team that had won 2 of the past 3 NBA Titles.

Barkley was ring chasing at the end of his career. Nothing more. Had nothing to do with the Bulls or Jordan.

It's at the point where Ken pom connection simply can't be in a thread even remotely connected to Bron

Jordan bent other teams to his will, and defeated them in their hearts and minds before beating them on the court.

And when he did beat them on the court, he left absolutely no doubt who was the best player.

Kobe is the closest thing to MJ that we will probably ever see, and people forget that Jordan became a mentor to Kobe almost immediately when he entered the NBA.

LeBron is good, but regardless of athletic skill, it's the lack of intangibles that will always put James on the losing side of any argument over who is the GOAT.

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

Of course, but MJ didn't need to create a "super team" when he already had 3 HOFers on that team (Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc). That's a bit of a different situation than having Mo Williams and Zydrunas Ilgauskas be your wing men for half a decade.

I’m no Lebron dick rider, but you could also ask what would’ve happened the previous year if Kyrie and Love stayed healthy.

That’s great that Toni is getting inducted, but let’s be real: he was nothing more than a role player on Jordan’s Bulls. His induction is based on his international career and just happening to be a part of Jordan’s team. But mostly the international success. It’s why you have guys like Vlade Divac and Dino Radja in the NBA Hall of Fame. Those guys ‘changed the game’ by making the decision to come to the NBA and bring their style to the NBA game. It’s not like any of them ever dominated in the NBA or even sniffed an MVP trophy, etc.

And even if you wanna use that lame comparison for the second 3 peat, how do you explain the first one? Jordan literally had nothing but role players outside of Pippen. And again, it’s not like Pippen was anything before he landed with the Bulls. He became the player he was because of being on Michael Jordan’s Bulls. I love Pip, but Michael helped make Pip who he was and once Pippen became that guy, he was finally able to help Jordan get over the hump (beating the Bad Boys and ultimately, winning a title).

Throwing Kukoc in there just goes to show how disingenuous KCC really is.

Because if we were to mention Kevin Love he’d act like it’s a joke.

Yeah, super disingenuous, for multiple reasons.

One being that we all know why Toni made the NBA Hall of Fame. It wasn’t for his on the court NBA success. Two: Jordan (and Pippen, for that matter) never wanted Toni there. He was Krause’s boy. There was a big rift over that at one point.

Player whose name I won’t mention anymore in this thread openly lobbied for the Cavs GM to go and get Love and bring him there. Love was already an established borderline NBA star (was NBA All-Second Team in 2014 with Timberwolves) and was a known commodity, unlike Kukoc who had never played an NBA game when he joined the Bulls. And, again, wasn’t even wanted on the team by Jordan.


But he knows all this and is just trolling at this point. I suppose I should stop taking the bait.

Except no prime stars wanted to join him in Cleveland, which is why he left the first time.

And the only reason he went back was because they drafted Kyrie Irving and had a nice asset for a trade in Wiggins to go get a guy like Love.

I had no idea that they put Kukoc in the HOF. He wasn’t even a starter for the Bulls when they won their last three championships. He was a good scorer at times but generally a liability on defense, and most definitely not HOF worthy.

I remember watching the game live and I vaguely thought he blamed his problem on a bad slice of pizza from a sidewalk vendor. Were they really calling it a flu at the time.

Too lazy to search, but would someone as competitive as MJ really be that hungover for such an important playoff game?

Considering that this was a night game that started at 9:00pm, that would have had to be one hell of a hangover.

Please list for us all the prime stars that wanted to join Jordan in Chicago the first 8 years of his career?

I’ll wait . . . . . . . . . . .

I watched every single game the Bulls played the Jazz in the finals in back to back playoff seasons. That Jazz team was historically great. Not just because of Stockton and Malone but they had great players surrounding them like Hornacek, Russell, Ostertag and were so well coached. That Jazz team could beat the Warriors team with KD and that's not an exageration.
Jordan won both series almost singlehandedly. I can never see LeBron beat those Jazz teams. I just can't.

TBT, you took way more time to shut down all his bs talking points then I do. It's just not worth debating and with so many more people putting Jordan ahead of LBJ public opinion will not change until people in my generation that watched both are dead and gone. KCC I'd Ahab chasing that white whale at all cost.

I find it much easier to just not give a shit.

Public opinion also thought Derek Jeter was better than Alex Rodriguez and continues to think Tom Brady was the best QB ever to play football.

1. For now, Tom Brady is the best QB to ever play football, even if he’s a bit overrated and given too much credit for his last 2 SB’s.

2. It’s not just public opinion. It’s also the media along with former and current players/coaches.

The mid 90s Jazz are now somehow better than a 73 win team that added a top 10 player in history to it in this warped reality.

https://stathead.com/tiny/V4hH2

I wonder where Utah is on this list.

A guy who was worse than Peyton Manning for the 1st half of his career and worse than Aaron Rodgers for the 2nd half of his career is not the best of all time at anything other than being overrated.

It’s hilarious that you value stats over winning.

I hate Brady, and do think he’s overrated, but he’s the GOAT for now. To argue otherwise is just ignorant.

[Ignores the fact that the Cavs lost 3 out of 4 times to this team in the Finals and the only series won was due to a key injury for said Warriors that allowed Cavs comeback and the ‘greatest championship ever’ :rolleyes:]

I'm under the belief that Jordan was hungover.

Which IMO is more impressive.

Throw a no hitter on acid or **** off. Jordan. LOL Lebron is so much better. Was from the start.

That really was a damn good Jazz team. Even back then I felt they were probably gonna beat the Bulls. If MJ didn't get that strip of Malone and then the game winning jumper in game 6 in Salt Lake, the Jazz damn well may have won that series.

Even you can't believe that. Jordan is a great athlete, huge college star with tons of Talent. Tom Brady is slow has an avg arm, and was a 6th round draft pick.

Chicago and Cleveland are not remotely the same attractiveness in terms of playing.

To answer your question-none on the level of Bosh or Wade.

Recognizing both as the best of their eras doesn’t mean you have to bash the other.

Scottie Pippen wasn’t a slouch but Jordan did have an amazing ability to elevate his play and take over games when he had to. Another reason that lifetime stats don’t tell the whole story.

This. They are best two to ever play basketball, great to say I watched both.

Correct answer.

Agreed. And Tom Brady is still overrated trash.

It's a dumb joke, guys. Everyone knows Jordan is way, way better than Lebron. The no hitter on acid is still the greater thing.

Defense is completely different in the NBA of LeBron and the rules that opened the game up in 2001-2002 than it was for Jordan and his predecessors. The muggers like Allen, Lambeer, Rodman, etc became a relative thing of the past.

In any event, Jordan will remain the best pure player I've ever seen on both ends of the court and from a leadership perspective. Jordan is a guy that would elevate his teammates' games and push them to be their best. LeBron is right there statistically, but he's not the same leader. I'd probably elevate Kobe above LeBron because of that trait as well.

Some people get carried away with numbers but with no hand checking, no rim protectors and running these spread fast break offenses Jordan would have had several seasons averaging 45 ppg if he played today.

Yep. Jordan has the best scoring average of all-time which is absolutely mind-boggling considering he played in a lower scoring era

Yeah..his numbers would be unwordly in today's NBA. It's not as much the players that change and it is the systems and rules that favor offense. The NFL basically wants Arena football with their rules and for years the MLB inflated HRs by jacking with the baseball.

As you can see something happened around 1998 to cause ratings to tank (but it's do to muh streaming!) so the NBA answer was make it easier to play offense.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_...vision_ratings

Agree completely. Kobe is the closest player to come close to Jordan in the modern era. Him and LeBron use to play 1 on 1 all the time. Kobe won most of those games.

Jordan is number 1 and it's not even close. Everyone else is just playing for second. For the people trying to compare stats in different eras.

Is Philip Rivers a better quarterback than Dan Marino? When you answer that question. You will realize how much your stat argument is flawed.

https://i.imgur.com/N9Ncm7t.jpg

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">That time when Jasmine Jordan, Michael Jordan&#39;s daughter, googled her dad at age 11 to see just how big of a deal her pops was. <a href="https://t.co/1kOAVJ1FlH">pic.twitter.com/1kOAVJ1FlH</a></p>&mdash; The Undefeated (@TheUndefeated) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheUndefeated/status/1262125740901818368?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Kobe "Derek Jeter" Bryant name should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Michael Jordan or LeBron James.

Kobe doesn't get enough credit because he came right after Michael Jordan. He had huge shoes to fill and obviously came up short. However, he was a next level competitor.

I remember an interview where he was talking about studying the officials handbook and film on ref crews. So he would know where the blind spots were.

While not in the spirit of the game but watching film on refs is next level competitive.

Interesting... where did you read that Kobe used to be Lebron the majority of the time? Not disputing the fact, just interested in reading more.

I would have to find the interview. They were talking about playing each other in the off season and Kobe was like yeah and who won most of those match ups. Lol.

Makes me feel old thinking about how long ago that was.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hqq-g9EJBSU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hard to get more physical than this.

I laugh at the argument that the more physical defenses would hurt LeBron. Umm he is the most physical freak every to play, more physical play would have been to his advantage. He would have been fine and actually more affective with his game. The rules allowed players like Steph Curry to win and thrive. Really the era of the 3 point shot has changed basketball more than anything. Giannis should be the most dominating player in the league right now as he would be in most eras. He's not because he can't shoot outside.

Just stop...you are becoming a flat earth guy.

https://youtu.be/_HJmZmR0-NM

The best one was when Malone gave Isiah Thomas 40 stiches and didn't even get a flagrant for it LMAO

It was just a different time.

Yep and just last night the league MVP got tossed from a playoff game for hitting the ball too hard attempting a steal LMAO. this shit is weaker than circus lemonade

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zONvMKkIpwA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's like a football game out there.

If you your argument is defense is as physical today than from 88-98 your that's mentally reeruned.

If your argument is gour a soft bitch that likes ballet, rRainbow Brite and non contact basketball with some Euro flopping.. That's valid.

KCC just won't give props for perhaps the greatest test of heart the NBA has ever seen:

The Flu Game.

Stop feeding the insecure troll.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5HHxkTHjBZo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL. Put Julius Erving, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc in today's non-contact sport. ****, LeBron may not end up top 10.