There's a whole lot of truth to that, and I see the parallels between Woods and Sorensen - both fan favorites, both made some heady plays...to the point where they could use their football acumen to put their bodies into position to make plays after their natural athletic abilities started fade due to the combination of age and injuries...

Need it to translate to victories, sir.
"Did you find that at Goodwill, or are they finally out of Scabby Piscatelli jerseys at the Pro Shop?"

I’m honestly at point of not watching defense when they are on field. One major reason is ****ing sorenson.

It is driving me insane that coaches are not pulling him. It plain as day he is consistently missing tackles or losing coverage.

When the shit hits the fan and you're losing, the last sign of fail is when teammates start pointing fingers.

Not good, very true and deserved, but not good.

Look at that '96 draft, man. Woods, Tongue, Browning and Donnie Edwards.

That's the kind of draft you'd like to see in an ordinary year. Not even a HR draft, but 4 good, solid players taken that formed a real nice group of complementary pieces.

And maybe that's what we got on the offensive side of the ball this year with Humphrey and Smith plus a good young OT in Brown.

But we've tried that a couple of times on the defensive side of the ball and it just hasn't taken. As it stands, we're fortunate to get a single good contributor to the defense in most of Veach's drafts.

He needs a '96 style draft class to build the depth of the defense and firm up its foundation. I'm not saying he needs to have the Dorsey draft record where he's snapping up All Pros and HoF talents ever year (man he had a great run). I mean - at least not every year (he needs a few of those hits on his record).

But he needs more than the 1 and done drafts we're getting on the defensive side of the football.

I still LOVE DIRTY DAN. **** the haters!

100% Agree. Stop swinging for the fences on projects and just get some sound players in here to stop the bleeding.

****ing case-in-point when I screamed for Logan Wilson and we got Willie Gay. Gay has been in the tub or on the sidelines while Wilson is looking like the next great... ****. Just take the good player.

not sure if srs

I agree with and appreciate the occasional HR swings. Gay in particular is one that I was (am) on board with because they needed athleticism in the LB corps in the absolute worst way. And when he was playing last year, he so clearly provided it.

But if he's injury prone, that's a real problem. I don't know if that's a 'miss' because I'm not sure what his injury history was in college and if some of this could've been predicted.

But there definitely needs to be a balance. And to some degree I think Bolton represents an attempt at finding that balance. Humphrey did as well. And Snead represents the upside of taking big swings over obviously safer picks like Amik Robertson or Bryce Hall.

There's room for both approaches. But the bottom line is that he just needs to do it better. His good drafts need to have more than one defensive contributor to meaningfully change the look of this defense. His bad drafts can't be complete write-offs like 2018.

That stuff will absolutely add up on you in a hurry and we're seeing the results of it in real time.

Ugh. The Knox play was probably the back-breaker and the bitch of it is that everyone else on the defense did their jobs.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Allen &amp; Dawson Knox (53-yard TD)<br><br>Allen – 4/4, 172 yards &amp; 2 TD on deep passes so far tonight – is the first player in the NGS era with a 100% comp pct &amp; 150+ passing yards on deep pass attempts in a single half (i.e. 20+ air yards). <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/StatThat?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#StatThat</a> | Powered by <a href="https://twitter.com/awscloud?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@awscloud</a> <a href="https://t.co/8PiijBDbsK">pic.twitter.com/8PiijBDbsK</a></p>&mdash; Next Gen Stats (@NextGenStats) <a href="https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1447380655772340225?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="nl" dir="ltr">Poor Sorensen <a href="https://t.co/251PPZymqk">pic.twitter.com/251PPZymqk</a></p>&mdash; Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) <a href="https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1447378031031603206?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It was defended. And they did a nice job of forcing Allen out of the pocket with a couple of trailers that were going to put pressure on him. Sneed and Thornhill had the middle taken care of, the backside WR was out of the play and Mathieu was there to drive on that out route along the sideline.

And for whatever reason, Sorensen just !@#$ing vapor locked. I have no earthly idea what he's doing there when Knox cut upfield.

He single-handedly created at touchdown from nothing. And he was asked to do nothing more than not get torched by a firmly average TE. Instead he gives him an easy release, makes his job a little harder but not impossible by any means...until he seemingly quits on the play.

He's just such a damn disaster out there.

Dammit, Dan - you're a safety. Your job there isn't to try to undercut a deep out. You just cannot bite on a really poorly run out and up like that.

That's just as bad a rep as you'll find. Mental mistakes, physical shortcomings - the whole smash. The entire 2021 Dan Sorensen experience is distilled to its essence there. Lord.

Half of this is Spags. Why is this guy still covering TEs? He’s shown over and over that he can’t do it.

Can we all chip in and get Dan some steroids?

It was worse when they had him try to cover Diggs.

He can't cover TE/WRs, he can't tackle RBs, and he can't chase down a QB for a sack.

He knows where to line up and inevitably get burned, though, and I guess that's important to this dipshit coaching staff.

****ing move Sneed to FS, Thornhill to SS and have Mathieu in the slot. Something. PLEASE.

Anything to get this ****er off the field.

All of it is. Been obvious from the start of this season that Sorenson is done, but Thornhill did something even more heinous than ****ing us so he has to earn his playing time.

That had to be a coverage breakdown.

I refuse to believe Spags would put Sorensen on Diggs.

Ugh.....bit on a double move again.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Stefon Diggs roasted Daniel Sorensen so thoroughly he didn&#39;t even realize Sorensen was in the same zip code after he caught this ball <a href="https://t.co/ISwW0fn7Gg">pic.twitter.com/ISwW0fn7Gg</a></p>&mdash; Christian D&#39;Andrea probably does not own a brewery (@TrainIsland) <a href="https://twitter.com/TrainIsland/status/1447374891427246084?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm a little curious what the assignments were there - I feel like maybe Thornhill blew his as well. It looks like a 2-deep robber where Mathieu has the underneath zone responsibility and Sorensen/Thornhill have deep halves. You see Thornhill get badly turned around there and then just find someone in front of him and stop.

Its hard to know what the play-call was there but with as little as we see Sorensen playing a single-high in the 3 safety sets, it seems unlikely that was the coverage there.

But man he got roasted a lot last night. Confused and 2 steps too slow. He's starting to cheat to make up for physical deficiencies - this is going to keep happening.

Honestly, a pretty solid idea. It would be even better if Gay is out there 100% and there isn't zero athleticism at LB.

Dammit - he even has Mathieu to help on the out-route if that's what Diggs does. There was just no reason at all for him to drive on that first move. Stupid, stupid, stupid play by Sorensen. God he's awful right now.

It LOOKS like a cover 3 and if it was then that one is 100% on HB sticking to the underneath instead of taking the deep 3rd.

I'm not seeing how Mathieu is helping him at all on that play. Mathieu is breaking on the route coming across the middle underneath. How does he also help on an out route going to the sideline?

He's lucky Diggs prematurely started to celebrate. Otherwise it was an easy TD.

Get Ward back and I’m fine with this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ain’t no worse feeling in ball than your teammate looking at you like Ty Mathieu looking at Sorenson! 😂😂😂<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/vFLsKVXFLf">pic.twitter.com/vFLsKVXFLf</a></p>&mdash; Emmanuel Acho (@EmmanuelAcho) <a href="https://twitter.com/EmmanuelAcho/status/1447379722325749763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Diggs makes the first part of his move (the out) at the 50. That's right where Mathieu has stationed himself and if the ball goes to Diggs on the out, Mathieu is in a position to get over there and make a play on it. So if that's the design of the coverage (a cover-2 Robber), then Sorensen had no need to drive on the out because Mathieu was in position to continue over on it.

Now obviously if he carried the route all the way to the sideline, that would've vacated Mathieu's zone. At that point, though, you have Hughes in the area.

He just can't be that aggressive on that route.

Yeah, if it's a cover 3 its on Mathieu. But Thornhill isn't playing like it's a cover 3 either. He's sticking right between the hash and the numbers - that looks like a cover 2 to me.

That's why some of this stuff can be tough - if it's a cover 3, Mathieu gacked it, for sure. I personally think it was a 2-deep robber sort of coverage and Sorensen blew it with a bit of an assist from Thornhill. And ultimately it could've been a disguised cover 1 with doubles on the underneath routes from Mathieu and Thornhill, in which case the blame is really on Spags for dialing up a crazy aggressive coverage w/ Sorensen being asked to do more than can reasonably be expected.

I'm sorry, but there is just no way in hell Mathieu is ever going to be in a position to help on that route. Just pause on the first break and then look at the direction of where Diggs is headed and then look at where Mathieu is. Is Mathieu superhuman or some shit? Can he fly?

Like I said - if it's a true 'out' I agree with you. If that ball is thrown outside the numbers, it's not a play Mathieu can make (I think that would probably be up to Hughes at that point). But look at Dan - HE didn't even play it like a deep out. He drove down on it like it was more of a stop/curl. He's driving right at the inside of the numbers there. And if that's the route he's trying to defend I do think Mathieu can make a play on it.

You started out by saying that Mathieu is covering the out route....

Hughes is sticking to his man. Mathieu is covering underneath. It legit looks to me like Sorensen was 1 on 1 over the top on Diggs.

I did. It was inartful.

I further clarified that if he continued to carry the route to the sideline that it would be out of Mathieu's area and the CB would presumably be responsible.

Whatever the case may be, it ain't a situation where Dan's supposed to be jumping the route, that's for damn sure.

Looks like Mathieu is the rat there. I can't imagine he'd be there if it's a pure cover 3 as you have about 4 other guys out of position as well.

With this defense though who knows.

Honestly, what Mathieu is doing on the field isn't going to ever help this team either. You can't be that open about your teammates ****ing up on stage because I've watched him have his share of **** ups too. Your team stops responding to your leadership when you are blaming rather than leading. Sit the guy down and have a 1-on-1, anything, but not that shit. I understand accountability but I don't see how he's helping anyone be accountable.

And then that brings up a serious question with regards to the rest of the year, should KC trade Mathieu now for help in the front 7? Could you get Deion Jones from Atlanta for HB, for example? Any pass rushers?

Shake it up, go for it... maybe it'll put the rest of these clowns on notice

Yeah I mean Tom Brady never yells at his teammates or shows them up when they mess up. Come on man, he’s trying to make them accountable. All the greats can be assholes to their teammates on the field.

Why would Atlanta want HB? They suck worse than we do. If you want Jones…just trade for him.

Tyrann lost his absolute **** in Super Bowl 54 after the Niners scored a TD to go up 20-10. It's part of who he is.

The bigger concern is why he's played like Eric Berry did in the first half of 2018.

Dan's been here a long time. He's made huge plays in huge games for us. He's played his ass off on defense and special teams and done whatever was asked of him. He's been a great teammate on and off the field by all accounts. I'll always remember him fondly as a guy that helped us win a Super Bowl.

But now is now. He's not getting it done. He's giving up huge pass plays and getting embarrassed in the open field when he tries to make tackles. It's not fair to him to keep putting him out there in the current role. They have to make a change.

I see what you're saying with the 2-deep robber because HB looks like he's playing the Hole. Maybe it just "seemed" like cover 3 to me because the corners are taking that awful deep and Sorensen should get help from Thornhill if that's a true robber. Maybe it's Thornhill that ****ed it all up?

Tried to attach a couple later still frames

I blame Spags. Sorenson is what he is.

They should be using Thornhill more and if they don't want to tell Veach to acquire someone.

Would it surprise you though if that was the case? Spaggot clearly believes Sorensen is more than he is.

The problem with calling it a strict cover two, though, is the LCB - I think it's Fenton. Look at how he's playing that. Hell, he's almost playing it like a cover 4 in the way he's dropping straight back and almost abandoning the middle. If Thornhill is in a Cover 2, why would Fenton give the receiver the inside that easily?

But gun to my head, it's a cover 2 robber and I say that because of how Thornhill plays it. He's keeping inside then convinces himself that the far WR is on a go so he starts to kick it into gear just as the WR makes the in-cut, so he has to turn himself back around. I think that flustered him and as he re-located the WR and saw how open he was, he assumed the ball was going to be there and drove on it.

But before he drove on that in-cut, he was gearing up to take the WR downfield after the left side corner passed him off and hung to the flat. I think confusion between Fenton and Niemann led to an opening in the zone underneath and Thornhill tried to freelance and drive on that route, leaving Sorensen 1v1 with no help over the top.

Either Niemann was supposed to take that middle with Fenton getting the flat/curl zone or Niemann had it and Fenton was supposed to have more of a middle half than he was playing. Once that happened, Thornhill was kindof in no-mans land which was compounded by him getting himself turned around when he incorrectly diagnosed a go-route. Sorensen bit on the double move and frankly even if he didn't, it was all over but the tears at that point.

I think something happened on the left side of the defense that led to Thornhill getting dragged down and leaving Sorensen in a completely unwinnable situation.

Buffalo destroyed Sorenson. They targeted Sorenson in the passing game and Sorenson missed tackles in the running game.

All game long, Sorenson was getting ****ed. It was putrid.

I never thought Dan was as bad as most people think and he has made big hits and big plays but he has been horrendous this year. Horrendous!

I think that's really the crux of the problem w/ Sorensen at this point.

Everyone gets beat on occasion. And many times guys get beat badly. The problem is that right now teams are targeting Sorensen and waiting for him to get beat. And as soon as he does, they hit it.

I don't think he's playing well or even at an NFL level, but I guarantee more of his mistakes are being exploited than most because teams are looking for them. There's blood in the water now.

From the stands you can find someone open, for both teams, on damn near every play. The issues is that the maelstrom on the field sometimes makes it difficult to locate and exploit the mistake. I think teams are essentially keying on Dan now and if/when he makes a mistake, they punish him for it.

Remember that game when Peyton Manning decided that on every play over the last 2 drives he was going to find Jamell Fleming and throw it to whoever he was covering? I'm pretty sure it was the Jamaal Charles fumble game. Every single snap Manning would find Fleming and wait for him to fail, the throw it at his guy. And they drove down the field like it was nothing. Now Fleming didn't fail on every play, but every time he failed, Manning punished him because he was looking that way and waiting for the mistake.

Sorensen is dealing with that right now, IMO. He's failing too often, to be sure, but he's also in a shooting gallery out there. He's created his own luck in many ways but there's no question he's dealing with some buzzard luck out there.

He was. He was always too slow to be an effective safety. A few "big" plays don't change that reality, regardless of what Chief Fan wants to believe.

I'd imagine that's some sort of cover 2 since there's no one else defending the short or intermediate middle of the field except Mathieu. If Mathieu is expected to defend the deep middle 1/3 here, that just wouldn't make any sense.

You are a better man than I, George. After that second long play he allowed (for a TD?), I just started yelling as loud as I could about how Sorensen is terrible and get him out of there. There was a guy wearing a DS jersey two rows in front of me but I didn't care.

I find it kind of distressing that people are actually wearing Sorensen jerseys to Arrowhead.

RaiderHader was sitting behind me last night with his Joe Delaney jersey on. That was a very cool jersey. Right up there with my Otis Taylor jersey :)

Good point. I was looking at a way to maybe improve the shit show using player capital and HB is a lot of player capital. Granted, you diminish one area for another but right now I'm alot less concerned about the secondary sans whatever you want to call Sorensen than I am with the other groups.

My Willie Lanier jersey remains the coolest jersey in the stadium...

The problem is that there aren't any contenders with pass-rush depth that are willing to help us.

If you're in the AFC, there's no way you send us a pass-rusher for a DL and allow us to firm up our front 4.

And if you're in the NFC - well there just aren't any teams I can immediately think of that would match up. Maybe Green Bay would move Preston Smith for him? Amos and Savage are better served in the box at this point.

The problem is that Tyler Lancaster really isn't starting caliber in his own right and that's who they'd have to backfill for Smith. I guess they could put Gary on the line or just try to hold serve until Z'Darius is off IR (dunno when that would be).

But it's gonna be hard to find a fit.

Yeah I was thinking about this earlier today when I was pondering over why that side of the ball is so devoid of talent. We do seem to swing for the fences in the draft and sometimes it bites us in the ass. Sometimes it works too with guys like Trey Smith.

I'm talking out of my *** a bit, but it feels like the reason we've hit on late round picks is the same reason we've missed on picks from the 1st-3rd rounds -- and that's the hyper focus on projects.

I totally am all for drafting high upside projects from Rounds 4-7. In fact, this is the time to take big swings and get 1st round upside -- Trey Smith and Sneed are great examples of this (I think Sneed is fine, btw, he's just playing on a dumpster fire of a defense right now). For years, the Chiefs played it safe in these rounds and it's how we ended up with JAG after JAG with these picks.

The problem is that Veach has also seemed to apply this high upside philosophy to earlier rounds. Drafting Gay and Hardman, two guys with great measurables, high upside, but questions around their production is a great argument for a late round... but not when there are players who have had much better production available at those slots.

Mahomes is the obvious standout with this philosophy. But Veach hasn't been able to replicate that success in the earlier rounds since (convincing Dorsey) to pick Patrick.

But then again, I'm a schoolteacher on my day off for a reason, and not an NFL exec, so what do I know?

Disagree completely. If you don't swing for the fences, you don't have Mahomes, Kelce, Hill, Smith. Every one of them was a homerun swing, although with different amounts of risk.

Hell, keeping Hunt would have been "swinging for the fences."

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">12 missed tackles, 284 yards allowed on 183 coverage snaps and 152.1 passer rating allowed. Daniel Sorensen has been the worst starting defensive player in the NFL this year. This can’t continue. <a href="https://t.co/0ACn3MvJu8">https://t.co/0ACn3MvJu8</a></p>&mdash; Sam Hays (@WichitaChiefSam) <a href="https://twitter.com/WichitaChiefSam/status/1447650647348846602?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 11, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Dan has to be benched. If Andy doesn't make that happen then he should be really questioned about his own job.

Mahomes was a top prospect and the only argument people had was the offense he was coming out of and his perceived lack of footwork but he was still firmly a high to mid 1st round guy. Kelce was college productive, especially as a senior, and went about where he should have. Hill and Smith were day 3 picks I have no problem taking swings on, that's when you do it. So, not exactly sure what you're getting at.

Gay lacked college availability, largely due to a big junior year suspension, and had some other issues. He only had 7 college starts over 3 years. He was taken purely on athleticism in round 2. That's swinging for the fences on measurables alone. He did the same thing with Hardman and that's been a mixed bag, albeit not horrible.

I'm not much for wild swings in the 1st and 2nd round. Take them later.

He's causing CP spooge blockage. Threats of antifreeze boosters is making him worse.

That story was on yahoo today, poor old guy got ran down crossing the street

He played EVERY snap on defense - every ****ing snap.

WTF????

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBZRYAYX...png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBZRqK9W...png&name=small

So it's actually possible to be worse than Sorensen so far this year?

I felt less helpless watching Justin Houston cover Antonio Brown than I did watching Sorensen try and cover Diggs, or Knox, or anybody.

I think the issue with Thornhill might just be fit with Spags scheme.

If we were running the Buffalo defense, Thornhill would be the natural replacement for Micah Hyde. A cover 2 safety that can defend half the field playing deep.

But we don't run the Buffalo D and Thornhill's lack of field awareness, ability to hit, play in the box to make us multiple makes Spags not want to play him.

If that's the case, time we just move any decent corner we have to the Sorenson role.

I nominate Fenton who just has to help double guys and make sure no one gets vertical.

No matter who it is, Sorenson cannot be allowed to play coverage as a safety the rest of the year.

Did you not watch his rookie year?

Your defense is that Sorensen fits the scheme better? Holy shit.

Sorenson still leads the team in tackles

Hog I like you but that comment wants me to tell you to **** off.

He's not wrong. Danny boy has excelled in a 32nd rate sort of scheme.

LMAO

Has anyone hacked 'dirtymormon49@hotmail.com'? Maybe we can find some spicy emails there.

Can someone review Dan's emails? Maybe there is something in there that could get him cut.

Issorensengoneyet dot com

Does Dirty Dan like his butthole oiled and forcibly massaged? I sure hope so!

I don't want Sorenson at safety.

I'm trying to figure out why Spags prefers him.

Dan has Spag's emails.

Maybe because he's smarter than you and realizes Sorenson is his best option.

I believe Spags and Andy have forgotten more about football than I could know in a dozen lifetimes.

I also believe nobody is immune to blind spots born of inertia and/or loyalty.

I cannot come up with a single cogent rationale for the conclusion that Dan Sorensen is the best option to play safety in base sets for this football team.

Its no different than being absolutely sure that Scott Pioli knew more about football than I do but he simply could not convince himself that Matt Cassel was a bad NFL quarterback. He had a blind spot. Sports in general are littered with brilliant people that fell victim to bias/blind spots. "He's been that guy before" or the ever popular 'great man' fallacy.

They understand the game better than I do, but they're also more prone to missing the forest for the trees because they simply can't get removed enough from it to see what's readily apparent to those of us that are less immersed and invested in it.

They're wrong here. Dan Sorensen should not be starting for this football team.

If the argument is that Thornhill misses tackles….then it’s no excuse. He’s more athletic than Sorenson. He’s a better deep safety. And you can’t say that he doesn’t fit the scheme because he excelled his rookie year.

Yeah Thornhill isn’t a LB/S hybrid but who the **** cares. Gay is back now.