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-   -   Chiefs Time to panic about Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs? Separating fact from fiction (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=340470)

Coochie liquor 10-25-2021 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 15914604)
I will not count out an Andy Reid team before Week 12.

Andy and Patrick have not given me a reason to. Shit, Andy and ****ing Alex didn't give me a reason to.

After what Patrick and Andy did in 2019, I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet. Still 10 games to play, and a lot can happen. Only really dominant team currently is AZ. Nobody in the AFC is winning convincingly every week. Lots of time for positioning, and streaks. AFC is still very up for grabs.

TwistedChief 10-25-2021 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 15914604)
I will not count out an Andy Reid team before Week 12.

Andy and Patrick have not given me a reason to. Shit, Andy and ****ing Alex didn't give me a reason to.

This.

I'll buy this team's prospects all day from the chicken littles whining and crying over the last 48hrs.

RaidersOftheCellar 10-25-2021 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin (Post 15914417)
If you guys will remember back. 2019 our defense absolutely sucked games 1-8. After that it was the best in the NFL. Can that happen again. I dunno.

There really are more parallels to that year than you'd think. Early stretch of 4 losses in 6 games. Poor defense through week 10. Spags under major criticism. Playoff appearance in doubt.

Sure, they never had a low point quite like what we saw yesterday, but Tampa did last year. If you think yesterday was disgusting, imagine a 38-3 beating in week 9. And that happened to a completely loaded roster.

mr. tegu 10-25-2021 08:58 PM

They likely aren’t getting the bye week but for this team especially, there is virtually no difference between #2 and #7 seed. There isn’t a team we have to fear or avoid and playing on the road hasn’t been much of a problem for them.

jerryaldini 10-25-2021 09:15 PM

If Clark and Jones were getting pressure this would be a very different season. That and taking care of the football. Could/should easily be 5-2 even with the D being so shitty.

fan4ever 10-25-2021 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabblerouser (Post 15914456)
I remember mother****ers talking about 17-0.

The undefeated season is something Mahomes will never talk about again.

Molitoth 10-25-2021 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fan4ever (Post 15914749)
The undefeated season is something Mahomes will never talk about again.

Yeah, but there is nothing wrong with having that as a goal.

Are players to never talk about winning a super bowl? Because they do it... a lot... and it doesn't happen for most of them.

LongSufferingToady 10-26-2021 12:40 AM

That was a great writeup, ChiefsCountry.

Really, there's nothing to add to your post. The Chiefs need luck and magic this season, because the talent, discipline, and desire is not there.

But one can dream, right?

LongSufferingToady 10-26-2021 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin (Post 15914213)
2019 we were 6-4 at one point and won the SB

That will NOT be the case this year. We simply don't have the talent or the desire to win.

Rasputin 10-26-2021 01:35 AM

Fact the Kansas City Chiefs are my favorite sports team in the world. Also fact **** the haters fact pluss extra **** the Broncos and Raiders.

bevischief 10-26-2021 01:39 AM

Clark needs to put his foot down and get pissed

BlackOp 10-26-2021 02:23 AM

I've wondered about these guys getting $20 million a year guaranteed...on a team that has been to back-to-back SBs.

What mountain is left to climb...you have a ring and a paycheck whether you perform or not.

Why would you continue to risk your long-term health anymore...how long does pride in your craft last?

Rasputin 10-26-2021 02:43 AM

I for one don't think we've seen the best out of Patrick Mahomes for even what greatness we witnessed from him he is still learning his craft and a tough year like this is good for his maturity and go to the next level we haven't seen put of him that he has yet to learn. This may not be his best year but it could be his best year to learn from and when they catch on to what the defenses are doing they will start carving them up again but still he has a bunch of touchdown passes and probably have over 50 by end of season. Nothing wrong with Mahomes teams are just built better to slow his game down.

BlackOp 10-26-2021 03:20 AM

I think KC is entering their post Legion of Doom Seahawks model era...A fifty million QB and no wiggle room for draft mistakes...

Seattle had 1-2 stellar drafts that carried them for awhile....once Wilson got paid, they were good but not great. A threat to beat you on any given day...

They havent sniffed a SB since he got his cash....

Chris Meck 10-26-2021 04:38 AM

Guys, it's damned hard to climb the mountain and get to the top.

It's even harder to just stay perched there; and nobody does it for too long without having a down season.

It's okay.

I'm really only a little bummed, to be honest. It was bound to happen. Would've been cool to get one more year on top. But maybe it's better this way; there won't be any temptation to like...extend Clark or something dumb like that.

The core pieces are still in place. This year's draft looks like it was an excellent one and even has a nice piece on the defense to build with. Last year's was pretty good too and still think Sneed and Gay are going to be good players moving forward.

Some of these guys got complacent. It's human nature, really.

Let's trim the fat this offseason, ditch these massive contracts to the underperformers and rebuild the defense. Personally, I really like the CB room and think the problems there are related to the total lack of pressure. Give any NFL QB all day and yeah, they're going to pick you apart. I've heard it said that Thornhill is 'just a jag' and I don't think that's accurate. I think he's a true FS and another part to work with.

It's time for a new DC. Get rid of Clark and Reed. Pick up a couple of mid priced, dependable DE's. Let HB walk, with that money you can pay a decent safety AND a dependable coverbacker.

We're not going anywhere with the loafing multi-millionaires on the defensive line this year.

It's alright. Take our lumps, clean house, and come back pissed off next year.

Red Dawg 10-26-2021 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackOp (Post 15914840)
I've wondered about these guys getting $20 million a year guaranteed...on a team that has been to back-to-back SBs.

What mountain is left to climb...you have a ring and a paycheck whether you perform or not.

Why would you continue to risk your long-term health anymore...how long does pride in your craft last?

Apparently not long for these ****s. To many ****ing pro athletes are bitches. They should play hard every snap because that is what they are being paid big money to do. The Chiefs gave Jones, Clark, HB, Hitchens and ER their money. Money other teams were not going to give them. Mahomes got them a ring and this is what the Chiefs get now? Half ass pussy effort and for what? Because now they don't feel like it? Not motivated anymore? **** them! Spoiled mother ****ers! They got paid right? THEN DO YOUR ****ING JOB!

TEX 10-26-2021 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 15914854)
Guys, it's damned hard to climb the mountain and get to the top.

It's even harder to just stay perched there; and nobody does it for too long without having a down season.

It's okay.

I'm really only a little bummed, to be honest. It was bound to happen. Would've been cool to get one more year on top. But maybe it's better this way; there won't be any temptation to like...extend Clark or something dumb like that.

The core pieces are still in place. This year's draft looks like it was an excellent one and even has a nice piece on the defense to build with. Last year's was pretty good too and still think Sneed and Gay are going to be good players moving forward.

Some of these guys got complacent. It's human nature, really.

Let's trim the fat this offseason, ditch these massive contracts to the underperformers and rebuild the defense. Personally, I really like the CB room and think the problems there are related to the total lack of pressure. Give any NFL QB all day and yeah, they're going to pick you apart. I've heard it said that Thornhill is 'just a jag' and I don't think that's accurate. I think he's a true FS and another part to work with.

It's time for a new DC. Get rid of Clark and Reed. Pick up a couple of mid priced, dependable DE's. Let HB walk, with that money you can pay a decent safety AND a dependable coverbacker.

We're not going anywhere with the loafing multi-millionaires on the defensive line this year.

It's alright. Take our lumps, clean house, and come back pissed off next year.

I'm with you as rationalization sets in...Correct on all accounts. Deal is it needs to go down EXACTLY like you laid it out, because if it doesn't, then you have "masterminds" still around capable of doing stupid stuff with the same lack of checks and balances in play. Spags MUST be part of the defensive purge.

On offense, Orlando Brown is NOT the answer at LT in this offense. Must find a legit LT. CEH is NOT the answer at RB. Not saying he can't be serviceable in some capacity, but what he brings is limited and might be better served as a complimentary piece, rather than a main one. KC needs a RB who can contribute in the passing game and is a threat to take it to the house. Doesn't have to be Jamaal Charles or Kareem Hunt good, but someone as good as Damien Williams will do. Need a #2 WR, who may be already on the team in Gordon. Need to find out this season. The Offense is much easier to fix than the defense, but the defense only needs to be respectable, so that should be easy to accomplish sooner rather than later.

Problem is all the issues listed were concerns going into this season and most all the answers, on both sides of the ball, were wrong. That can't happen again.

Dunerdr 10-26-2021 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 15914904)
I'm with you as rationalization sets in...Correct on all accounts. Deal is it needs to go down EXACTLY like you laid it out, because if it doesn't, then you have "masterminds" still around capable of doing stupid stuff with the same lack of checks and balances in play. Spags MUST be part of the defensive purge.

On offense, Orlando Brown is NOT the answer at LT in this offense. Must find a legit LT. CEH is NOT the answer at RB. Not saying he can't be serviceable in some capacity, but what he brings is limited and might be better served as a complimentary piece, rather than a main one. KC needs a RB who can contribute in the passing game and is a threat to take it to the house. Doesn't have to be Jamaal Charles or Kareem Hunt good, but someone as good as Damien Williams will do. Need a #2 WR, who may be already on the team in Gordon. Need to find out this season. The Offense is much easier to fix than the defense, but the defense only needs to be respectable, so that should be easy to accomplish sooner rather than later.

Problem is all the issues listed were concerns going into this season and most all the answers, on both sides of the ball, were wrong. That can't happen again.

I kind of wonder in terms of complacency and talent if "Run it back" hurt us more than we realize. Instead of upgrading that offseason we brought back the same team, who won the superbowl, but was clearly not that talented in many positions.

crayzkirk 10-26-2021 09:01 AM

Watching PFT Live today; Chris Simms makes some strong and concerning points about how Mahomes is bailing out of the pocket, dropping really deep and looking at the pass rush instead of downfield. Not sure if it's the toe injury or him wanting to recapture that magic he had however, it's not working right now and as much as I don't want to agree... He's actually human after all...

Coochie liquor 10-26-2021 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 15914998)
I kind of wonder in terms of complacency and talent if "Run it back" hurt us more than we realize. Instead of upgrading that offseason we brought back the same team, who won the superbowl, but was clearly not that talented in many positions.

No way. I think we win that game if the OL wasn’t in shambles, and Britt didn’t almost kill 2 kids.

Coochie liquor 10-26-2021 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 15915060)
Watching PFT Live today; Chris Simms makes some strong and concerning points about how Mahomes is bailing out of the pocket, dropping really deep and looking at the pass rush instead of downfield. Not sure if it's the toe injury or him wanting to recapture that magic he had however, it's not working right now and as much as I don't want to agree... He's actually human after all...

Maybe it’s because he has about 1 second before someone is coming for him. He’s taken a lot of hits, and rarely gets the benefit of RTP, that Brady, Rodgers etc get.

PAChiefsGuy 10-26-2021 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 15915060)
Watching PFT Live today; Chris Simms makes some strong and concerning points about how Mahomes is bailing out of the pocket, dropping really deep and looking at the pass rush instead of downfield. Not sure if it's the toe injury or him wanting to recapture that magic he had however, it's not working right now and as much as I don't want to agree... He's actually human after all...

Yeah I think defenses have gotten a lot better at defending him. He's got to adjust.

crayzkirk 10-26-2021 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor (Post 15915072)
Maybe it’s because he has about 1 second before someone is coming for him. He’s taken a lot of hits, and rarely gets the benefit of RTP, that Brady, Rodgers etc get.

I agree... he got sandwiched in the Saints game, took a monster hit in that one. Was running for his life in the SB and has been running ever since. I'm not wanting to assign blame, just noticing that people who watch film and video a lot more than me are seeing things.

I also know that if there's one things reporters like to do more than build someone up, it's tear them down.

Dunerdr 10-26-2021 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor (Post 15915066)
No way. I think we win that game if the OL wasn’t in shambles, and Britt didn’t almost kill 2 kids.

I dont mean the superbowl i mean the effect on this year.

TEX 10-26-2021 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coochie liquor (Post 15915072)
Maybe it’s because he has about 1 second before someone is coming for him. He’s taken a lot of hits, and rarely gets the benefit of RTP, that Brady, Rodgers etc get.

Exactly. Fix the Offensive Tackles, and the magic returns.

Coochie liquor 10-26-2021 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crayzkirk (Post 15915095)
I agree... he got sandwiched in the Saints game, took a monster hit in that one. Was running for his life in the SB and has been running ever since. I'm not wanting to assign blame, just noticing that people who watch film and video a lot more than me are seeing things.

I also know that if there's one things reporters like to do more than build someone up, it's tear them down.

No doubt. Plus got knocked out of the Browns playoff game. Guys taken a beating, and I hate it. I’d love to see him with a constant good pocket like Brady has most of the time. Bad OL play will be the downfall of our bad ass quarterback.

Dunerdr 10-26-2021 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX (Post 15915105)
Exactly. Fix the Offensive Tackles, and the magic returns.

The problem is how to do it. Draft? Are we drafting top 10? We need two d ends, a corner (seems to be a decent corner class) and probably a wideout.

The Franchise 10-26-2021 09:33 AM

Making a lot of sense here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is great commentary from <a href="https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@danorlovsky7</a>. Bang on.<br><br>The film doesn&#39;t lie. Mahomes needs to take the easy throws being given to them, and the coaching staff has to make adjustments around him <a href="https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St">https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St</a></p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1453021027680899072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Easy 6 10-26-2021 09:48 AM

He nailed it, no question

ToxSocks 10-26-2021 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915125)
Making a lot of sense here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is great commentary from <a href="https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@danorlovsky7</a>. Bang on.<br><br>The film doesn&#39;t lie. Mahomes needs to take the easy throws being given to them, and the coaching staff has to make adjustments around him <a href="https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St">https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St</a></p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1453021027680899072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

These guys in the national media have been waiting 3 years for this.

Dunerdr 10-26-2021 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 15915169)
These guys in the national media have been waiting 3 years for this.

Theyve been wanting to say he cant do what makes him great for so damn long lol. I do agree hes got to get the check down more. But why not bail to attempt a throw on the run when youve been the best at it of all time?

siberian khatru 10-26-2021 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 15915169)
These guys in the national media have been waiting 3 years for this.

I predict Jeff Chadiha will cum multiple times when he's on The Border Patrol this week.

ToxSocks 10-26-2021 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 15915173)
Theyve been wanting to say he cant do what makes him great for so damn long lol. I do agree hes got to get the check down more. But why not bail to attempt a throw on the run when youve been the best at it of all time?

Hilarious how 2-3 games of failure all of sudden mean the last 3 seasons of blistering HOF level success was really wrong all along.

The haters who've been forced to bite their tongue finally get their time to shine. Enjoy it while it lasts i guess.

mr. tegu 10-26-2021 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunerdr (Post 15915173)
Theyve been wanting to say he cant do what makes him great for so damn long lol. I do agree hes got to get the check down more. But why not bail to attempt a throw on the run when youve been the best at it of all time?


If you bail to throw and at the same time pass up a wide open receiver, that probably means the guys you are looking to throw to after bailing are pretty well covered.

mr. tegu 10-26-2021 10:17 AM

Time to panic about Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs? Separating fact from fiction
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915125)
Making a lot of sense here.

This is great commentary from @danorlovsky7. Bang on.The film doesn't lie. Mahomes needs to take the easy throws being given to them, and the coaching staff has to make adjustments around him https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St— Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) October 26, 2021


I feel like a broken record but I’ve been talking about this stuff almost all season. It just really piled up multiple times in this game. I don’t know how you can just blame the offensive line on those plays. Maybe they prevented huge plays ona few but certainly was room for positives each time. The outlet guys made themselves available for easy catches and gains. Brady probably gets 50 yards at least out of those plays. I know those would then make the Barry McCockiner highlights but oh well.

RaidersOftheCellar 10-26-2021 10:21 AM

Even if this season doesn't turn around, the good news is that they won't be stuck with all of these underachievers on D next year. They can ditch Clark, Hitchens, Reed and Mathieu with a minimal cap hit. I'm not sure how much space they'll have to work with given that Mahomes' cap number balloons, but even cheap FAs/rookies are likely to outperform Clark, Hitchens and Reed.

notorious 10-26-2021 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar (Post 15915196)
Even if this season doesn't turn around, the good news is that they won't be stuck with all of these underachievers on D next year. They can ditch Clark, Hitchens, Reed and Mathieu with a minimal cap hit. I'm not sure how much space they'll have to work with given that Mahomes' cap number balloons, but even cheap FAs/rookies are likely to outperform Clark, Hitchens and Reed.

You can still cut all those turds after a successful season.

But yes, I am excited to see new, HUNGRY blood on this team, and not just the defense.

The Franchise 10-26-2021 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 15915179)
Hilarious how 2-3 games of failure all of sudden mean the last 3 seasons of blistering HOF level success was really wrong all along.

The haters who've been forced to bite their tongue finally get their time to shine. Enjoy it while it lasts i guess.

That’s not what they said in that video at all.

Easy 6 10-26-2021 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915225)
That’s not what they said in that video at all.

This place is sooo ****ing tiresome sometimes

Like you, I wouldn't trade Mahomes for ANYONE... but that doesn't mean his every decision is flawless, he's still very young and has plenty to improve on

And he is the first one to admit it

ToxSocks 10-26-2021 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915225)
That’s not what they said in that video at all.

What he's saying is that 3 years of RPO (the Chiefs run RPO more than anyone in the league) has created habits in Mahomes that he now has to fix.

While Mahomes had 3 years of success, he and most in the media didn't have shit to say about this RPO offense and Mahomes drifting etc. being so problematic.

Mahomes is more or less doing the same shit he's always done, albeit with less success this year.

So you tell me, if he's complaining about it now, what was he thinking about it the last 3 years, knowing that nothing's changed other than the outcome of a few games? Dude is venting because he's had it bottled up inside, because everything Mahomes did wasn't suppose to be that easy in the eyes of these guys. They've been waiting for him to fail so they could tear him down.

They'll start sucking his dick again the moment the Chiefs get on a roll too. It's what they do.

OnTheWarpath15 10-26-2021 10:54 AM

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, there are some spoiled mother****ers in here.

We went 50+ years without doing shit, then 3 straight AFCCG's and 2 straight SB's and y'all losing your minds at the first sign of adversity.

Maybe it's my age showing, but they did what I hoped for - which was to win a Championship in my lifetime. The rest is gravy. The days of living and dying with every W/L is over for me - I'm just going to enjoy watching the greatest QB we've ever had - even if there are some tough stretches along the way.

I'd advise the rest of y'all to do the same.

Red Dawg 10-26-2021 10:59 AM

Mahomes is a great QB that's having a rough year. I think he may be shell shocked by how much better teams have gotten at defending our offense. He will learn to adjust and get better every year. He has to get the hero ball out of him but in his defense that is how this team has won. He covered up our defensive issues by running around and saving the day but now that's not working so he will change. The defense is worse than ever so him trying to be a hero won't matter. Andy should help him and run the ball more and tell him to dump it off. Short gains are better than picks and better than him getting hit.

493rd 10-26-2021 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 15915258)
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, there are some spoiled mother****ers in here.

We went 50+ years without doing shit, then 3 straight AFCCG's and 2 straight SB's and y'all losing your minds at the first sign of adversity.

Maybe it's my age showing, but they did what I hoped for - which was to win a Championship in my lifetime. The rest is gravy. The days of living and dying with every W/L is over for me - I'm just going to enjoy watching the greatest QB we've ever had - even if there are some tough stretches along the way.

I'd advise the rest of y'all to do the same.

Really well said and I agree. Most of us at one point not too long ago just wanted one SB. ONE. We’ve gotten jaded by the success of the Chiefs and need to be happy with we’ve seen since 2018. There’s plenty of time to regroup and get back to the SB. If this isn’t our year I’m okay with it. I love watching football and the AFC is stacked. Hell, if by chance we don’t make the playoffs this season, it’ll be a stress-free viewing experience.

stumppy 10-26-2021 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915125)
Making a lot of sense here.

Was going to post that video yesterday. I think it's a pretty accurate description of what's happening.
Simms was saying a lot of the same things today.

FloridaMan88 10-26-2021 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915125)
Making a lot of sense here.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is great commentary from <a href="https://twitter.com/danorlovsky7?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@danorlovsky7</a>. Bang on.<br><br>The film doesn&#39;t lie. Mahomes needs to take the easy throws being given to them, and the coaching staff has to make adjustments around him <a href="https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St">https://t.co/uBmpKCv3St</a></p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1453021027680899072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 26, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Re-watch Mahomes' INT play in the Tennessee game... Darrel Williams was WIDE OPEN in the flat for what would have easily been a nice 8-10 yard gain on first down.

Instead Mahomes scrambles out of the pocket and tries to force a pass to a covered WR downfield.

wachashi 10-26-2021 11:44 AM

Mahomes can play patient and he knows how to take the stuff underneath. Just watch the AFC Championship game last year against Buffalo. We had a tremendous quick passing game against a solid Bills defense. Mahomes can do it. I just think he has a VERY tough time following through with that game plan when we're down two scores and our defense is showing no ability to get off the field.

The Franchise 10-26-2021 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi (Post 15915377)
Mahomes can play patient and he knows how to take the stuff underneath. Just watch the AFC Championship game last year against Buffalo. We had a tremendous quick passing game against a solid Bills defense. Mahomes can do it. I just think he has a VERY tough time following through with that game plan when we're down two scores and our defense is showing no ability to get off the field.

We were down 7 and on the 2nd down before the 3rd down fumble that was recovered by us….he left the pocket when he didn’t need to.

wachashi 10-26-2021 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 15915387)
We were down 7 and on the 2nd down before the 3rd down fumble that was recovered by us….he left the pocket when he didn’t need to.

Yeah, he was pressing when he didn't need to for sure. But if the defense actually gets a stop in the first half, maybe the pressing could have been coached out of him.

FloridaMan88 10-26-2021 11:57 AM

This plays says it all... Kelce is open in the middle of the field, a RB is open in the flat... just matriculate the ball downfield and set up a third and short or maybe Kelce or the RB break it for a bigger gain and a first down.

Instead Mahomes leaves the pocket, runs for a no gain and takes an unnecessary hit in the process.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/mK...fb195618e5c9ae

RaidersOftheCellar 10-26-2021 05:42 PM

Apparently Mahomes' on-target percentage is the highest of his career (79.1).

ROYC75 10-27-2021 06:15 AM

Time to Panic?
 
Yep, sure is, I gotta SHIT and somebody used the last roll of T-paper. :shake:

Molitoth 10-27-2021 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15 (Post 15915258)
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, there are some spoiled mother****ers in here.

We went 50+ years without doing shit, then 3 straight AFCCG's and 2 straight SB's and y'all losing your minds at the first sign of adversity.

Maybe it's my age showing, but they did what I hoped for - which was to win a Championship in my lifetime. The rest is gravy. The days of living and dying with every W/L is over for me - I'm just going to enjoy watching the greatest QB we've ever had - even if there are some tough stretches along the way.

I'd advise the rest of y'all to do the same.

I've been trying to say the same to people.
I think people's expectations are a little out of control.

Back to back super bowls is hard to do... and really hard when you defense is almost non-existent.

Every game, regardless of the outcome... Mahomes has an amazing play(s) that bring me joy to watch. Because I know I could be watching Alex Smith, Matt Cassel, Tyler Thigpen, or some other shit QB.

Red Dawg 10-27-2021 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molitoth (Post 15916734)
I've been trying to say the same to people.
I think people's expectations are a little out of control.

Back to back super bowls is hard to do... and really hard when you defense is almost non-existent.

Every game, regardless of the outcome... Mahomes has an amazing play(s) that bring me joy to watch. Because I know I could be watching Alex Smith, Matt Cassel, Tyler Thigpen, or some other shit QB.

STOP BRINIGING UP UP TYLER THIGPEN!!!!!!!

InChiefsHeaven 10-27-2021 07:28 AM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DGQbnXKLjMA" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I dunno, this is an interesting listen, especially Jeff Allen, who should know what the hell he's talking about regarding the OLine...

dirk digler 10-27-2021 07:50 AM

The Chiefs subreddit has a good discussion about this with some good gifs and I learned something new. Apparently DE's are now just rushing straight and deep because Pat just does super deep drops and doesn't step up in the pocket, he then bails way to quickly and his feet are all a mess. He definitely has some trust issues going on.


https://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityC...ine_on_sunday/

DaFace 10-27-2021 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 15916808)
The Chiefs subreddit has a good discussion about this with some good gifs and I learned something new. Apparently DE's are now just rushing straight and deep because Pat just does super deep drops and doesn't step up in the pocket, he then bails way to quickly and his feet are all a mess. He definitely has some trust issues going on.


https://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityC...ine_on_sunday/

Yeah, while I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff, the speed rush around LT is working mostly because Patrick constantly goes too far back. Brady has never been fantastic at running away from coverage, but he knows when to step UP. It seems like we almost never see that from Mahomes.

The Franchise 10-27-2021 09:37 AM

Pat was gunshy as **** in that Titans game. Add that to the defense shitting the bed in the first half and Reid just abandoning the run game completely…..and we get a blowout.

penguinz 10-27-2021 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 15916945)
Yeah, while I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff, the speed rush around LT is working mostly because Patrick constantly goes too far back. Brady has never been fantastic at running away from coverage, but he knows when to step UP. It seems like we almost never see that from Mahomes.

Same thing happens with Russell Wilson. Big reason he is usually one of the most sacked QB's.

crispystl 10-27-2021 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dawg (Post 15916744)
STOP BRINIGING UP UP TYLER THIGPEN!!!!!!!

FINE! Tyler Palko then!

PAChiefsGuy 10-27-2021 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 15916945)
Yeah, while I don't claim to be an expert at this stuff, the speed rush around LT is working mostly because Patrick constantly goes too far back. Brady has never been fantastic at running away from coverage, but he knows when to step UP. It seems like we almost never see that from Mahomes.

Very true. Brady isn't a scrambler but he has great pocket presence which is something Mahomes lacks right now. I'm sure he will learn though. He's still young.

Red Dawg 10-27-2021 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 15917125)
Very true. Brady isn't a scrambler but he has great pocket presence which is something Mahomes lacks right now. I'm sure he will learn though. He's still young.

Easy to have great pocket presence when you have never had a bad OL and never had a shit defense. Brady's career is built on him really never having to face the pressure of carrying a team. He's a fraud.

He threw 3 picks last year in the second half of the NFC Champ game and won. Would that have happened for Mahomes in any year he's played yet?

crayzkirk 10-27-2021 11:26 AM

Teams are doing what they are supposed to do; breaking down his strengths and causing him to fall back on bad habits. I believe he will grow out of this however right now, he's feeling pressure when there's none and trying to hit the five run homer with no one on base all by himself.

I'm fairly certain that for years, defensive players and coaches simply said: he can't keep making those plays, it's such a low percentage throw, etc. So, they have concentrated on making sure that defenders stay with their assignments and make him be patient. The fact that the Chiefs don't throw to the RB and are very predictable as to when they run the ball is making it easy for defenses to frustrate Patrick.

Rasputin 10-27-2021 02:51 PM

Second in touchdown passes and at least three or four of his interceptions we're off the hands of his target that are normally caught. Other drives were killed by turnovers by the ball carrier so our turnovers are up but I attest there is nothing wrong with Patrick Mahomes however the coaches need to find ways to what the defenses are doing and execute. It's still a young offensive line so when they get the experience really it's going be an unstoppable offense once they get it going again. Adjust to what the defenses are doing.

FloridaMan88 10-27-2021 05:57 PM

Another detailed analysis from Yahoo regarding Mahomes and the Chiefs struggles.

Link: https://sports.yahoo.com/whats-wrong...183843299.html

What’s wrong with Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs?

Henry Bushnell Wed, October 27, 2021, 11:38 AM

Patrick Mahomes thrives in chaos. He has ever since NFL cyborgs started chasing him. He has beaten them with his brain, his legs and his otherworldly arm. He has dissected and sidestepped blitzes. He has deflated defenses with off-balance bombs. It’s why he won an MVP, then a Super Bowl. It’s why he reached a second title game, and entered the 2021 season favored to win again.

Seven weeks into that season, though, his Chiefs are reeling. They’re 3-4, more likely to miss than make the playoffs. And their offense has regressed, in part because opponents have adopted a counterintuitive strategy to make Mahomes mortal.

They’ve increasingly opted against chaos.

They have, almost entirely in recent weeks, stopped blitzing.

The Titans terrorized Kansas City on Sunday, 27-3, by only once sending more than four pass rushers. Two weeks earlier, the Bills slowed Mahomes without a single blitz.

“This was unusual,” Buffalo defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier said of his gameplan, “but for this opponent, it was the right thing to do.” And his peers around the league are catching on.

Through seven weeks, Mahomes is the least-blitzed quarterback in football. Defenses are dropping seven-plus men into coverage — as the Bucs so often did in last season’s Super Bowl — on roughly 87% of plays against the Chiefs. That’s up from around 77% a year ago. It’s well above league average. And it has become something of a blueprint.

“The Tampa Bay Buccaneers put out film [in the Super Bowl]: Rush them with four,” says Orlando Scandrick, a 12-year NFL defensive back who played for the Chiefs in 2018. “No point in chasing him all around.”

Frazier added: “The more we studied Kansas City and their offense, and just watching Mahomes and how he operated versus pressure, man, it just created a lot of problems for defenses because of his ability to ... make you pay sometimes for bringing pressure.”

So, defenses have stopped giving Mahomes that chance.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/Cr...3-c10936ca2730

Of course, replicating the Titans masterclass is not simple. Nor is explaining why this strategy has worked. It isn’t that Mahomes is better under pressure than in the absence of it. He’s excellent on the run, of course, more prolific outside the pocket than any other QB in the league last year; but he’s still better stationary with time to throw.

Mahomes, however, has been better against five-plus pass rushers than against four or fewer — from 2018 through last season’s AFC playoffs, against the blitz, he compiled a passer rating over 116, with 25 touchdowns and just one interception — largely because more chaos up front means more space down the field.

Blitzes leave Tyreek Hill, Travis Kelce or Kansas City’s other weapons 1-on-1. Mahomes’ ability to escape blitzers gives those weapons time to separate for big plays. Dropping seven into coverage, on the other hand, allows a defense to play two high safeties, or double Hill and Kelce, and take away those big plays.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/ht...b-5db4c5cded6d

Plus, “you can kind of manipulate the quarterback to a degree, by showing him some different looks, because you’ve got more people in coverage,” Frazier said. “Sometimes he might think you’re playing a single-high defense when you’re actually playing a split-safety defense, or vice versa.”

In other words, he might see a single safety and think half the field is open, only for the defense to rotate a second safety back in coverage to close it up.

“When you’re bringing pressure,” Frazier continued, “sometimes, against a really really good quarterback like Patrick, they identify, they know exactly where to go with the ball in pre-snap, then you’re kinda imperiled if you don’t have great matchups. So having more guys in coverage, and having the ability to rush with four, can allow you to manipulate the coverage a little bit.”

This approach has gained traction around the league. Last year, Bill Belichick’s Patriots spent nearly half of their Week 4 game against Kansas City dropping eight defenders. This year, in Week 2, the , their lowest percentage ever under defensive coordinator Don Martindale. They quit the blitz entirely after Mahomes beat it for a touchdown on the opening drive of the second half, and gave up only seven points thereafter.

The approach is not a silver bullet. The Eagles tried it in Week 4 and miserably failed. The Titans succeeded despite rarely blitzing because they still pressured Mahomes 18 times, on more than 40% of his dropbacks. They got the best of both worlds — backfield chaos and coverage downfield — in part because Kansas City’s offensive line crumbled just as it did last February.

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6V...b-a2e3bbfc77b1

Not long after — the Buccaneers, per Pro Football Focus, pressured him on 27 of 56 dropbacks (48%) — the Chiefs set in motion a plan to better protect him. Tackles Eric Fisher and Mitchell Schwartz, who missed the Super Bowl with injuries, were released. A week later, the team signed $16-million-per-year guard Joe Thuney away from the Patriots and coaxed Kyle Long out of retirement.

In April, they swung a trade with the Ravens for Orlando Brown, who was unhappy with his contract and wanted to move from right tackle to the left side. The Chiefs had the money, the draft picks and the opportunity. A week later in the draft, they took center Creed Humphrey in Round 2 and guard Trey Smith, a top-50 talent with medical concerns, in Round 6.

In a matter of weeks, a unit that was the Achilles heel of the Super Bowl now looked stacked on paper.

"We've got a handful of guys, plus some — maybe two handfuls — that we feel are pretty good players," head coach Andy Reid boasted in August.

Early on, it appeared that the offensive line commitment was paying off. The two rookies (Humphrey and Smith) earned starting spots and have, more often than not, fared well. Thuney has been his typically sturdy self in pass protection, despite battling a hand injury.

The problem has been on the outside. Right tackle Lucas Niang has been the weakest pass-blocking link, eventually giving way to Mike Remmers in Week 6. Brown has had his moments, but was undressed by the Titans in Sunday’s loss — the first game this season that looked frighteningly similar to the Super Bowl meltdown.

And the consequences of their struggles seep into other parts of the roster. The costs associated with assembling the offensive line prevented the Chiefs from buttressing a defense that might have overachieved in 2020. Seven weeks into 2021, a relatively unchanged unit .

Its porousness demands brilliance from Mahomes. And for the first time in his young career, Mahomes hasn’t been equal to the task.

In his mere 53 regular-season starts, Mahomes has established himself as the ultimate Houdini quarterback. He has masked defensive flaws. He has engineered improbable comebacks. In his first four pro seasons, he did just about anything Kansas City needed from him en route to a 38-8 record.

This season, however, hasn’t always followed that script. The Chiefs came back from down 12 in the second half to beat Cleveland in Week 1, and cranked it up late in wins over the Eagles and the Washington Football Team. But Clyde Edwards-Helaire fumbled late in the and again the next week against the Chargers. With that game against Los Angeles tied, the Chiefs took over with two-plus minutes left. Right as it looked like Mahomes would pull off his latest magician act, he threw a pick — and gave Justin Herbert the chance to lead a game-winning drive of his own.

On the surface, the Chiefs’ offense remains stout. It ranks third in total yards, fourth in passing yards, second in first downs and eighth in points. But one big thing has been missing: explosive plays. The in each of Mahomes’ first three seasons as a starter. This year, they rank 22nd. In losses to the Chargers, Bills and Titans, they had only six passes of 20 yards or more — and none longer than 28. With defenses committing to two high safeties, the opportunities downfield have dried up.

“People are learning not to play them all man to man [and pressure],” Scandrick says. “You can go zone, kind of [use a] ‘slow until you know’ [approach]. Try to make them take the long, hard route.”

This isn’t a completely novel approach. Defenses started adjusting prior to last season's Super Bowl. And the impact of those adjustments shows up in numbers. In Mahomes’ first 44 starts, including playoffs, he averaged 8.55 , and threw 110 touchdowns to just 29 interceptions. He led the Chiefs to 24 wins by eight or more points and only one loss by more than eight points. But in his 17 starts since, dating back to last season, his adjusted net yards have fallen to 7.21 per attempt. His touchdown-to-interception ratio is a far less impressive 39-16.

Meanwhile, the Chiefs won only three of those 17 games by more than eight points, and lost three by eight or more. They’ve covered point spreads just three times in their past 15 regular-season games.

So is all of this fixable? Mahomes hasn’t had a true slump in his career. The offensive line, in theory, should jell and develop as the season wears on. The offense could right its ship.

But the defense might be what it has been, leaving the Chiefs to rely on Mahomes’ wizardry, which once was reliable but this year has been much less so. Opponents have adapted. “A lot of the things Patrick has done well,” Scandrick says, “it’s not working.”

On one hand, the solutions aren’t secret. The Chiefs know the formula. “You have to play complementary football,” Scandrick says. “When they won the Super Bowl, they had a run game. They ran back kicks. They’re missing those.”

On the other hand, recapturing them isn’t easy.

“I don’t know, man,” Scandrick says. “The Chiefs are kind of limited in what they can do.”

louie aguiar 11-01-2021 09:18 PM

Is it time to panic?

-King- 11-01-2021 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by louie aguiar (Post 15927463)
Is it time to panic?

Kinda.

He's not seeing the field at all and add to that he's inaccurate as hell right now. He's thrown more dirt balls the last 4 games than he did in any full year before this.

comochiefsfan 11-01-2021 09:30 PM

Mahomes is bad right now but the scheme is equally terrible.

No one ever seems to be open and there doesn't appear to be any urgency or ability to scheme up ways to get guys open.

Big fat fail this year from Andy and EB.

suzzer99 11-01-2021 09:38 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Where is Pat going here in this pocket? <a href="https://t.co/qEgo2DEGc3">pic.twitter.com/qEgo2DEGc3</a></p>&mdash; Danny (@JewellHawks) <a href="https://twitter.com/JewellHawks/status/1455373728511049729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He's got the yips

wachashi 11-01-2021 09:41 PM

The Super Bowl may have broken Pat. I hope it’s temporary. Jesus, he gets spooked so easily now.

mr. tegu 11-01-2021 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99 (Post 15927755)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Where is Pat going here in this pocket? <a href="https://t.co/qEgo2DEGc3">pic.twitter.com/qEgo2DEGc3</a></p>— Danny (@JewellHawks) <a href="https://twitter.com/JewellHawks/status/1455373728511049729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He's got the yips


Absolutely brutal. Walk in TD right in front of him.

CasselGotPeedOn 11-01-2021 09:54 PM

I honestly don't know if Pat gets things "fixed" this season. It seems like he just needs a complete mental reset in the offseason.

TEX 11-01-2021 09:56 PM

It's time. This season is a wash.

TEX 11-01-2021 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 15927587)
Kinda.

He's not seeing the field at all and add to that he's inaccurate as hell right now. He's thrown more dirt balls the last 4 games than he did in any full year before this.

Yep.

suzzer99 11-01-2021 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 15927871)
Absolutely brutal. Walk in TD right in front of him.

Who knew the LB could charge straight at the QB like that? Ben Niemann and Anthony Hitchens have taught be the best play is to hang out in no-man's land.

louie aguiar 11-01-2021 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 15927871)
Absolutely brutal. Walk in TD right in front of him.

It's sad to watch. He's seeing ghosts out there. I hope he can regain his form but he looks like he's lost confidence. He's afraid to pull the trigger sometimes and when he does his throws aren't as accurate.

tredadda 11-01-2021 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comochiefsfan (Post 15927670)
Mahomes is bad right now but the scheme is equally terrible.

No one ever seems to be open and there doesn't appear to be any urgency or ability to scheme up ways to get guys open.

Big fat fail this year from Andy and EB.

They are moving the ball. They are just turning it over far too often at the worst times. Can't scheme poor decisions and not holding on to the ball.

Nightfyre 11-01-2021 10:00 PM

I feel like Pat is watching the pass rush, where a lot of his missing magic is related to keeping his eyes downfield and reading the defense

-King- 11-01-2021 10:05 PM

As hard as I am on Hardman and the other WRs, Mahomes is compounding their weaknesses by doing that. As a WR, how do you run a real route knowing the play becomes a scramble drill a second after it starts.

RollChiefsRoll 11-01-2021 10:08 PM

Even though the past few games have been the worst stretch of Patrick’s brilliant young career, we’re still a .500 team with an opportunity to turn shit around. We’ve seen what worst-stretch-of-career-play gets the Chiefs when anybody else is the signal caller. So thankful that we’ve got a QB like #15–who’s so goddamn good a little rough patch like this has us hitting the panic button. Dude’s gonna get it figured out, I have no doubt.

I’m ride or die for this ****ing QB till he hangs up the cleats.

Hammock Parties 11-01-2021 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wachashi (Post 15927794)
The Super Bowl may have broken Pat. I hope it’s temporary. Jesus, he gets spooked so easily now.

This isn't true. The WFT, PHI and CLE games prove it.

Patrick is working out the kinks. He was better tonight.


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