The offense is in a slump. It isn't more than 30% on Mahomes. Again, if the scheme that teams were running against the Chiefs were magical, all defenses would shut down all passing games. Andy needs to put on his thinking cap. There have to be whole in the secondary we are not exploiting.

Interesting

How much of that running game was Andy shutting the offense down whenever we got a 14+ lead?

No more running. More short passes, yes.

Darrel and Gore are one trick ponies. You cannot give them the ball 30 times.

ummm he is missing a shit ton of throws. He looks like a QB with zero confidence and isn't trusting his eyes and is worried about getting sacked.

Nobody is saying to permanently go in that direction…but this team….with OTs that struggle to block the edges…hell yes.

We have 700 pounds of tackles and the best interior OL in the NFL.

Let them eat.

I don't think we ought to give up on the pass for the run, but the Giants were giving us the middle of the field 8-10 yard routes all night long and we were too stubborn to take them. Take what the opposing D gives you until they die a death of a 1000 cuts and then bombs away when have to bring those safeties up. Good grief, we can't be so in love with the bomb that we lose games "because Mahomes". Face it, something is off with him this year. Even Kelce was un-Kelce tonight. Sometimes you have to use your head and not your balls. If running the ball and getting 5-6 YPC and winning just isn't sexy enough for you, go make yourself a wine spritzer and chill out. Winning is everything.

Every run is a win for the opposing defense, that’s why they are playing the coverages they are. Reid and Mahomes just need to do better.

EXACTLY.

Andy needs to adjust the scheme to help him in exactly those areas.

You were on here a few weeks ago saying he was a JAG...

I said I liked his vision in the preseason...

This OL excels at run blocking....Chiefs need to revamp their offensive strategy until the the 2 deep has to come up...Gore is better than Williams.

The NFL has solved the Mahomes "scramble until someone breaks open" routine...and it's only "solved" because they dont have to worry about the run.

It’s strange that the Chiefs did make considerable efforts to improve their personnel for the short yardage plays… by signing McKinnon who is good on screens and improving their TE depth to utilize multi-TE sets.

But we’ve barely seen any of that implemented to-date.

Noah Gray was the talk of training camp and nothing 8 weeks into the season.

Turning the Chiefs into a run-based offensive football team is not the answer here. We aren’t going to be able to keep up with other teams in this league doing that. Not every opponent is like the Giants.

:clap:

PBJ PBJ PBJ

Other than not finding the holes in the zone, we are not managing down and distance well this year. Too many 3rd and 6+. The play calling needs to most often gain 10 yards in two downs. Hitting the middle distance passes. Defenses are shutting down deep passes AND closing fast on sort stuff. Middle has to be open.

They ate tonight. 21 carries for 4 YPC.

That's the best you're getting out of these backs, dude.

You think giving them the ball MORE is going to result in a better YPC?

Typically that is not the way it works.

And if the runs are working the way they were with Gore, then why shouldn't we punish them for not dropping a man?

That’s horseshit.

Did you even watch the game and see the energy the offense got when Gore was in and scored that TD?

You give defense a couple of drives like that and they will be forced to change their alignments and personal to ones we can take advantage of.

The Chiefs passed almost every down on that impressive first drive.

Quick, short passes… almost a quick tempo rhythm as well.

Yes the drive ended with an INT, but the Chiefs effectively marched down the field and Mahomes completed like 7/7 passes.

MOAR of that strategy.

The pocket isn't a good place to be. OB isn't a bookend LT.

The Chiefs aren't capable of doing that kind of thing consistently.

The backs aren't that good.

You'll notice that drive worked well AFTER the Chiefs came out mostly throwing.

That's why that drive worked.

You can't run a modern offense just grinding slow RBs up the center's ass. You just can't. You're stuck in 1995.

That’s EXACTLY the way it works with banger backs with big nasty OLs… we have 2 guys that can pair with this OL to wear defenses out and set them up for kill shots.

It’s the obvious counter punch to the defenses that have been frustrating Mahomes this year.

I'm never ever going to do that as a DC against PM.

Reid has been doing this all year...it's really a head scratcher....not the short passes but finding something thats working then going away from it.

They had something working with Gore...then they ghosted him.

They should have done exactly what they did on the next drive....nope. Make them adapt to stop it...

We do people seem insulted when the Chiefs run the ball.

JFC

Our Oline is built to run the ball, didn't anyone see that by the big, maulers to drafted?

You don't assemble a power run blocking offense line and then never run the damn ball.

Use the run to setup the pass, that has always been a good recipe for success

We don't have to run it on every play, just make a defense honor the run so we can throw the ball easier. It's not difficult.

This is still just PTSD flashbacks to Martyball. lol

That’s a whole lot of hot garbage.

These backs are plenty good enough to be highly effective behind this OL.

Running long developing pass play after long developing pass play with these WRs and these guy blocking the edges is a recipe for disaster and that’s showing out on the field as we turn the ball over like 24% of the time.

We simply aren’t built for that type of offense. Not as a base offense, anyway. This offense is built to ride its OLs strength.

Like I said.

Best IOL in the NFL and 700 pounds of OTs. Let them lean on the DL and wear them down more. Then run those long developing pass plays once Niang and Briwn have leaned in on their guys all day.

No one is going to respect either of these RBs. They can't break a run over 10 yards.

NFL Network just broke it down...

run the ball more
eat clock
Reid has to be patient with the run
Mahomes needs to quit trying to erase the bad record with one play

The Chiefs had no big plays tonight. Tyreek was open for a big one but Patrick underthrew it. Still should've had 30 on the scoreboard by just taking what the defense gave. If not for the interception on the first drive and the Kelce fumble. Those turnovers likely took 10 points away.

That's fine. They can keep not respecting it while we feed it to Gore all the way down the field for another TD.

We have a SPECIAL run blocking OL.

Orlandis Gary could run for 1400 behind this OL.

It's not 1990. There is no set them up for the kill shot, because the Chiefs have PATRICK f'n MAHOMES. It's not like if we have Ryan Tannehill that teams can cheat against. Teams will not expose themselves to that. If the Chiefs want to run, there is no better outcome. Whatever the Chiefs gain on the ground? Fine. Still gonna stay in my two deep. If we switch to run emphasis, we self contain the best player in the league. We must use Mahomes and the passing game to pressure defenses.

It has it's place. 20 carries a game is good enough.

Any more and you are doing two things:

1. Vastly reducing the effectiveness of those runs, because the players executing them aren't good enough. You can only hand the ball up the middle so many times before the defense sees it coming and pounces on it. That is the easiest play in football to stop.

2. Taking the ball away from your best players. The ones making the most money. If Andy drew up a gameplan where Derrick and Darrel got 3x as many touches as Kelce, Hill and Hardman, he should be fired. Period.

This is extremely logical but some of you refuse to use your brains.

This is the equivalent of the 2003 Chiefs taking the ball out of Priest's hands to feed Kennison and Morton.

The Chiefs WILL get this figured out. They just have to keep chopping at it.

Throwing their hands up and going back to the stone age on offense is admitting defeat. That doesn't do this team any good now or in the future.

If cdcox and I agree on a subject, it should be inked in blood and stamped in gold. It is football gospel. Because we disagree on almost everything else in life.

Yep but I bolded the biggest impediment to this strategy. He has never committed to the run long term and everyone knows that.

We don't have the defense to play martyball offense.

It doesn't matter how good your OL is if the defense knows 30 plays a game are going right up the gut.

These backs don't have the explosion to run off tackle, let alone a pitch.

And the OL is not good enough to do that either. Our RT is still learning. Our LT isn't the most mobile player in the world.

Defenses know 98% of our running plays are butt-center specials. Easiest play in football to stop.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

And that is the cherry on top.

There is far too much risk involved here on both sides of the ball.

Most plays if the pass isn't there Patrick has the check down or scramble option anyway.

Way better than a yard up Creed's sphincter.

No, we don't. Which is why a ball control offense is more important. We don't have a defense at all. The longer our offense is on the field the better.

Where is this nonsense coming from that we would be running every play up the a gaps because of limitations of these backs?

These guys have similar speed as Priest did.

He didn’t break big runs, either.

if you get a 1st down, it doesn't really matter how you got it.

Gore can absolutely break runs for longer than 10 yards. Didn't he have a 10+ yard negated by a penalty against the Giants?

The only real problem is that i doubt we can trust Andy to manage a game involving a running game. When we were dominating the game on offense is was easy for Andy to "play" at running the ball. Will he stick with the run in a close game? Will he keep running the ball even when we get stuffed everyone so often?

I don't trust Andy at all, so maybe someone else can judge better.

Should be running the ball with 12 personnel more like we did tonight, and play action off of that...

We don’t have the defense to keep turning it over every 4 possessions.

That’s what’s killed us.

FFS we would be 6-2 if it weren’t for preventable turnovers.

Yep. I'm a bit concerned he caught David Carr syndrome to be honest. He is watching the rush waaaaaaaaaaaay too much this year and it's holding the offense back.

I think he doesn't trust Brown and if he doesn't then you have to change that situation in the offseason above all else.

When your receiver room is one and a half people, and your O line is better at run blocking as currently built... do the obvious thing and adjust your scheme, Andy

You can always get a new tackle situation next year and go back to bombs away

Prove it.

LMAO

Maybe you should watch some of his Eagles teams.

How old are you?

It doesn't even matter because Andy always plays to his team's strengths.

What you don't even realize:

AFTER DERRICK GORE'S DRIVE THE CHIEFS RAN THE BALL 11 TIMES FOR 39 YARDS.

YOU WANT TO SUSTAIN AN OFFENSE BASED ON 3.5 YPC?!?!?

JakeF, Pete and Easy 6's ideal franchise back. Feed him 25 times a game.

https://footballuniversity.org/wp-co...bu-400x620.png

We're a team built on offense that didn't replenish it's weapons.

Facts

Our OTs struggle blocking the edges. Pat doesn’t trust them, at all.
Robinson, Pringle and the rest of these WRs are JAGs, at best.
Everyone on our OL is a good to great run blocker with plus size.
Our top 2 RBs are bangers.

So, you take Robinson/Pringle off the field a little more and add Bell or Gray a little more and flex Bell/Grayout wide or back as a full back and run an up tempo offense. Give Mahomes a system similar to what Peyton had where he could prevent defenses from making substitutions and attacked defenses weaknesses.

And we went all in trying to get Trent Williams and struck out.

If they had a solid LT as a pass protector, we could run the same offense as we’re used to.

With this set of OTs, we can’t run that offense.

We need a counter punch and the counter punch is obvious.

We didn't replenish a brokedick Sammy Watkins? What?

Shut up dipshit. You get to pipe your long haired dumbass down for six more days. We won.

Its a safer bet than trying to feed Pringle and Robinson all night

These no name backs actually make a decent platoon

Short passes.

We are full up on butt runs. More than 20 a game and Creed's ass starts to chafe.

Yea if you haven't noticed no one we plays cares about anyone not named Hill or Kelce..

Refusing to move on from the Robinsons and Kemp's is a real issue.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As we talked about on the Athletic Football Show last week with <a href="https://twitter.com/pff_seth?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@pff_seth</a> and <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_DLee?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF_DLee</a>, 2-high shells were up about 14 percent leaguewide through the first 7 weeks. It really does feel like we&#39;re moving toward this world.<br><br>Here&#39;s that whole story. <a href="https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj">https://t.co/ZTZw04jeMj</a></p>&mdash; Robert Mays (@robertmays) <a href="https://twitter.com/robertmays/status/1455346578680598530?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The Chiefs are fine.

They just need to stop turning it over.

If they don't turn it over twice tonight they have 30 points, maybe 34.

I mean ****.

I'm old enough to remember when Patrick had no Tyreek Hill and no left tackle and threw for 4 TDs in one quarter.

Patrick will get his shit squared.

****ing chicken littles.

It's 2 months, maybe it's who they are now?

We won because Pat threw it to his backs and Andy ate some celery and cucumber tonight and had a couple drives where he ran the ball.

If we keep running a ton of long developing pass plays with these OTs, Pat is going to keep taking hits snd losing confidence.

FFS don’t you see the looks he has during games?

Nobody is saying we can’t run the blitzkrieg offense. We just need to change it up to where it’s not the base offense. Teams have adjusted to that snd Brown/Niang compound the problem.

If we come out and run the ball fir 2 straight drives, it would be like David Carr in that game he went crazy throwing deep on us and we didn’t expect it.

This OL would get some swagger going.

They would be wearing down defenses every week.

No team has the DEs that can battle all day in a phone booth with these monsters and still blast upfield late in games.

That’s the counter punch.

Absolutely. I've been saying this shit for years.

All these scrubs that Andy keeps around are taking up the rosters spots that should be used to develop players. Andy has 7-10 jags on every roster that are a waste of space. That costs us salary cap, draft picks etc. We almost never get the surprise Diamond in the Rough because Andy never commits to developing players.

They're literally risk adverse to playing young guys until they have no choice.

They seem way to caught up in the "this guy made plays to help us with a SB so he can do it again" when in reality a lot of those players have declined.

Yes, extensions of the run game, the kind of slick screen games Andy made his name on

If your receivers suck, get sneaky with your backs... give me some quick hitters where Mahomes isn't risking life and limb every other play

I am still holding out hope.

If for no other reason the turnovers still seem to be bad luck/bad bounces.

Daniel Jones threw multiple tipped balls tonight that harmlessly fell to the ground and then had a likely pick 6 when Sneed fell down.

The Chiefs are getting the opposite end of those turnover breaks.

But law of averages hopefully comes into play.

We'd get 3 points, maybe. ROFL

The Chiefs "running game" is based almost purely on the fact that defenses don't respect it. This is not the 2003 Chiefs OL and RB. T-Rich would look like a factor back compared to these guys.

When you run it more, you make our sub 4 YPC RBs even less effective. Guaranteed. These guys can't break a 20-yard run to save Gracie's life.

That shit was good when it was Brian Westbrook, LeSean McCoy, Jamaal Charles, Kareem Hunt...but when it's Helaire or Darrell William defenses gonna let you have your 5 yards.

Pete what are some of your more common porn searches like? Give us an idea...

One of those guys is a 1st round pick...sad shit.

Patrick executed better this week and the Chiefs didn't fall behind 17-0.

The Chiefs running game was no different tonight than it was against WFT, except the Giants are a little worse at defending the run, and Gore brought a little extra.

Andy has the right mix. What is required is better execution. Patrick and Kelce left 10-14 points on the field.

Same story every week.

The truth is buried by the excuses being made for Mahomes' play. I pounded the table for the kid prior to getting drafted and have been one of his biggest fans since college, so I'm fairly immune to the rah rah bullshit being spewed in every thread that calls him out. He's staring at the rush instead of down the field and he's late with throws or missing open targets because of it. Patrick is putting the team in bad situations as much as the next guy right now.

I'm not sure if he'll fix it or not, which worries me. We've seen good QBs go down this path before and not come out of it. None, of course, as good as Patrick has been nor with the confidence I've seen him exude to date, but the point remains. I'm hoping it's just a trust issue he can overcome as he learns to get better at playing within and up in the pocket. It very well might not go away this season and could take a change at LT to clean it up. We'll have to see and, hopefully, sooner than later.

Sorenson and Niemann are the exception, not the rule when it comes to success. The chances that they ever play that well again is miniscule.

The way that Andy/Spags kept Niemann out there to coach Bolton/Gay was sickening. It meant that Spags hadn't coached the young linebackers well enough so they knew what to do. They needed Niemann out there to call the plays for them.

I'm not sure what the obsession is with Sorenson. He is a liability everyone on the field except in the box. Even then he isn't particularly good. /

If you can’t see that Pat doesn’t trust these WRs or OTs, I don’t know what to tell you.

It’s clear to see.

All defenses have to do is bracket Hill and Kelce and the passing game is limited to a trash player beating a zone coverage that knows they are limited. These OTs cant hold these 4-5 second blocks and these WRs cant get open against NFL talent. They aren’t physically capable of doing it. Asking them to do it every game is creating the problems we’re having.

Even Dick Vermiel that wanted a high flying offense figured out his offense was best when he ran a balanced attack.

Chiefs also dont have the defense when Mahomes throws 2 INTS a game...It looks like he's always looking for the big play...and when its not there like it used to be...he's forcing it.

Not every play has to be a 20 yard completion...they need to sucker those two deep safeties up.

What they are currently doing isn't working...they scored 14 points until the final minute....and 3 points last week.

The first drive drive looked great...using the short passing game then it disappeared....then they had Gore humming...then it disappeared.

Every check down to the RB went for 8 yards....

It's almost to the point that it seems deliberate...keep the point spread intact? Something is off...they never stay with what is working.

Mahomes has looked off but the coaches have also not put Mahomes in a position to succeed.

It's time to lean on the new strengths of this team and lean into the running game. This team should look like a Kyle Shanahan offense. Run the ball to set up the play action. That should be our bread and butter.

The answer is Andy has to move away from his hybrid spread offense and go back to his West Coast roots.

Tighter formations. Power running and quick passes designed to get players YAC.

Kelce seems to have aged overnight. I feel like Hill is the only weapon out there right now and that's a big of a problem as any.

Except that:
If a defense is going to sit in two deep all day, they CAN'T pounce on the run; that's the whole point. And if this OL has a strength, it's in run blocking. they're road graders. The whole point of the two deep is to take away the explosive, downfield passing attack-and it's working, that's why there are all these DC's running it.

The counter to this defense is boring, methodical offensive football. Run the ball, pass the ball short, dump-offs, screens, slants.

Not nearly as exciting as Tyreek on a 50 yard bomb; but the fact is that IF you can execute the boring, methodical balanced run and short passing game you kill the opponent on two levels. You score, and you hold the ball so long that they cannot.

This seems to be something very few are wanting to discuss or believe. Kelce has been so great for so long and has taken a pounding for years. It seems to be starting to take a toll on him.

We saw the formula for opposing defenses. This team has a unique ability to sabotage itself on seemingly every drive. Defenses are going to double down on the deep safety looks and make us execute 10-12 play drives. We've continued to show that we are not capable of doing that without self destructing. We're turning the ball over on more than a quarter or our drives. Throw in the drops and insane amount of penalties and sustaining a drive is a monumental challenge for this team.

I'm confused by alot of the comments here. The "cure" for our offense is West Coast run game, dink and dunk? So the exact offense the Chiefs ran for the 30 years prior to Mahomes and never once worked?

Poor Kelce has been getting mugged & held coming off the line of scrimmage. None of the holding stuff seems to get called.

The Chiefs need to embrace how teams are defending them. Other teams wish they could play against a four man front or two deep safeties. Middle of the field is open. Running plays should create yards. Time of possession for the offense. Keep the defense off the field. If this offense can't enjoy it or take advantage of it, they can f*** off. Maybe guys need to catch the ball and immediately fall down if they can't avoid fumbling.

I agree they should embrace it. The first drive last night was perfect, right up until the interception in the end zone. I loved the quick outs and short passes that were going for 8-12 yards per play. If the offense could consistently execute that type of game plan without self destructing defenses would begin to change their scheme. As it is there's a real good chance our offense will shoot itself in the foot, so defenses will double down on the deep safeties and continue to give us plenty of opportunities to screw up.

Thanks for sharing. Seems like the Chiefs won't be the only team struggling with this.