we have became soft since Skip and Phobia left.

At what point do we point blame for the game and season

THIS!!!!

https://c.tenor.com/mtvNXWk9tkMAAAAd...-disgusted.gif

100 replies shortly, Skip would be proud.

down the 'canyon gap' ;)

Chess is rigged. Follow the money

It leads to the Denver Airport

Go sit on a dildo OP. Reid is a top 10 all time coach

Go sit on a 14" dildo covered in rusty barb wire, while chugging antifreeze, on top of an AIDS tree, OP you noob.

otter
~OG

Honestly, I think Schottenheimer was a better head coach than Reid. Until Reid landed Mahomes, he was basically the offensive version of the defensive Schottenheimer.

When Marty had a legitimate star QB, he went to the AFC Championship game. Peterson is responsible for the quarterbacks Marty had to work with, and Peterson was responsible for deciding that Nick Lowery was too expensive, and going with that POS kicker who will not be named. If Peterson had just paid Lowery, that 95 team probably wins the SB with the #1 defense in football.

I am not saying that Marty was more successful, because Reid obviously has the ring, but without Mahomes, Reid doesn't even get us to a single AFC Championship game. Hell, other than Montana, Alex Smith was better than any QB Carl Peterson ever signed for Marty.

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I shutter at the thought of what Marty would have done with Mahomes.

Um what

I mean you make a couple of reasonable points but don't forget that Marty benched Rich Gannon for Elvis Grbac for another 1 and done playoff game. He keeps Gannon we probably win the Superbowl that year. Gannon didn't put up amazing stats that year but I remember watching and he was good for us. That was a terrible coaching decision. Reid also went to 3 NFC championship games with the Eagles and 1 Superbowl, ya McNabb was good and of course Mahomes is amazing but still.

Reid also came to KC after we earned the #1 draft pick on a pretty bad talent year for the draft and we immediately went to the playoffs with alex smith

I was pretty clear. I think overall, Marty was a better HC than Reid. I think Reid would have been just as successful as Marty, meaning zero SB wins, if we never drafted Mahomes.

Without Mahomes, Reid had 2 of the 4 worst playoff losses in NFL history, when it comes to losing leads. In the history of the NFL. The losses to Indy and Tennessee were 2 of the 4 biggest playoff leads given up in a loss in NFL playoff history.

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How did this piece of shit thread get so many pages

Let’s bring in Magnus Carlsen to call plays.

Lol no ****ing way.

I would happily play chess with Andies Reid’s

Without Mahomes, Reid had 2 of the 4 worst playoff losses in NFL history, when it comes to losing leads. In the history of the NFL. The losses to Indy and Tennessee were 2 of the 4 biggest playoff leads given up in a loss in NFL playoff history.

Without Mahomes Reid doesn't make a single AFC Championship game. Ever.

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Ah, no wonder. A burst of dumbassery.

Without Mahomes Reid took Donavon McNabb to a SB.

Just stop you are trying too hard.

Marty had some extremely talented teams he squandered away with conservative shit play calling.

So, at the time of those losses, you thought Reid was the best HC in Chiefs history?

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Let's see. 3 straight championship games, 2 straight SBs with a win.

Hm.....hard to say!

Good ****ing God you guys are dumb.

The quote I originally responded to said Reid was the best HC in Chiefs history. I was talking about Reid's history with the Chiefs.

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AT THE TIME OF THOSE LOSSES DID YOU THINK REID WAS THE BEST HEAD COACH IN CHIEFS HISTORY?

No you didn't.

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Tyreke? WTF?

:facepalm:

It doesn’t matter. Reid is the best coach or 2nd best coach at worst to Hank Stram in KC history.

Stram likely gets extra credit for being very much an innovator in the early NFL and also whipping ass in the AFL before the merger.

I don’t dislike Marty but Reid is hands down better.

But you only think that because we drafted Mahomes. Without Mahomes I very much doubt that you would still have that opinion.

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If you don’t count the year we won a Super Bowl, and the year we made it back to the Super Bowl the following year, then Andy’s time with the Chiefs starts to look somewhat lackluster

we would've won a super bowl with alex smith cuz the nfl script writers wanted to throw us a bone. but that's it. we'll never win another. the refs will see to it.

If you count nothing good it looks bad.

Nailed it.

it was "since Hank Stram"

you could make an argument for either one as the best KC coach, I wasn't around during the Stram era so I can't put much input on that. I watched the 90's Chiefs and was super die hard about it back then. Became a fan when my family moved to Kansas and Joe Montana was the only QB I even heard of and just started watching. There was a lot of sad times during the Marty era, conservative playcalling, legendary defenses and just epic choke jobs. I recently rewatched that Elvis Grbac performance in a playoff game, needed to score a TD and he's doing nothing but dumping off for 3 yards each play. Absolutely garbage.

It goes deeper than that. Reid actually has a losing record if you ignore the games he won. Paper Tiger?

Reid builds for the long term.

By him putting the game on the defense's shoulders it built towards the future.

In the playoffs there is going to be a moment where the defense digs a little deeper because they know the HC has their back.

It was terrible, on the spot strategy , though.

Hey OP

This is a Rabblerouser quality thread

in memory of Skip? Noob with 100 replies. Would have made him
Livid.

This n00b's thread makes Andy Reid look like ****ing Garry Kasparov!!!

This is the dumbest thread in history. And I loved Marty. But there'd no comparison between Marty and Reid. Marty got so tight in playoff games you could actually hear his sphincter pucker up through the TV. Without Joe ****ing Montana to literally push him over the cliff, Marty never goes for it on that play that ultimately wins the game.

Holy shit this is a stupid thread.

The current dynamics? No, it's simple mathematics. The only way KC doesn't get the ball back with 50 seconds left is if the Bengals get a 1st and goal from the 1 after the 2-minute warning when playing from the 11. A team is going to try to operate for the TD there 10/10 times and has nearly the same scoring probability as if they were operating from the 10. The likelihood that they get a 1st and goal from the 1 is relatively low because of the situation and yards to goal.

Here's an article that literally talks about it from a similar perspective with better data than I want to regurgitate:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/st...downs-red-zone

Granted, if the Bengals did get a 1st and goal relatively quickly after the 2-minute warning, then there is a ton of credence to letting them score so you at least have time to try and tie because you'll otherwise lose anyhow. That simply wasn't the case at any point the way things went down, and they couldn't have went any better for Reid's decision sans the back-to-back penalties that completely ****ed the Chiefs.

Reid is guilty of showing his hand too soon. I wonder if playing his good play calling would be better in the second half…….

I do not think that he is a bad chess player, I just think that he is too nice. He needs to stop letting his foot off the gas when we are ahead. Who cares if you run up the score.

Not going to delve into the merits of the OP itself, but I am curious about this dynamic where people criticize a specific aspect of someone's skillset and people immediately go to the narrative that it's a criticism of their entire existence.

People have criticized Reid in various specific ways over the years, he doesn't pound the rock, he has trouble with time management, he flubs challenges, . . . here it's about the strategy of a highly specific situation.

If people had posted that Reid is not very good at sculpted abs, or cum-gutter hips, would you immediately jump to 'he's a HoF coach, I think he's the most fit, healthy and muscularly toned person in history? Why don't you root for a team with a meathead gym rat like Sean McVay, loser?!?!'

This goes a lot wider than the issue of Reid, it's a debating dynamic I've seen on the rise in a number of venues, and am curious if anyone else has defense or criticism, or championing or denial, or whatever, of it.

Welp, that’s about it for this one

Baby Lee spends all of his days trying to find different ways to make the same exact post over and over. That he has problems with the tone or style of a post.

It is actually amazing how much time he spends labring under the weight of not liking "how" people post on Chiefs Planet.

Andy does what Andy does

It was difficult to foresee the Bengals being able to waste the entire clock in that situation. I think he played it right. They screwed themselves but got bailed out big time. Similar to when we played the Chargers the first time.

Another thing. If they had scored the TD and we matched it, I probably would've been fine with going for 2 over OT.

A+++ seller. Would buy again.

Take some of those instances this year when people thought Andy was being too conservative with Mahomes and "not letting Mahomes be Mahomes" and multiply that for the entire duration of Mahomes' career.

That would be Marty with Mahomes.

"Tyreke"? :facepalm:

Or if the Chiefs get called for a defensive penalty... which is exactly what happened and was not exactly a surprising outcome given how tightly the refs were calling defensive penalties.

That needed to be part of the decision making calculus.

Also according to analytics, if the Bengals had scored a TD when it was first and goal after the two minute warning, their win probability would have dropped slightly.

Analytics show that the odds of the Chiefs winning were close to the same either way. Maybe Andy knows a little more than you think he does. Which is why he is a future Hall of Fame coach and you aren't.

FYP…

I was yelling…”Let Them Score“ at the 2:10 mark when the Bungles had the ball on the Chiefs one yard line with 3rd & inches.

A first down guaranteed a Bungles win so just let them score a TD & give Mahomes 2 minutes with 2 timeouts.


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I wish our DB would have just let Chase walk in the end zone instead of tackling him at the 4 yard line, but I know that is hard to change your mindset on the fly.

The odds are always close either way, but the odds clearly show you let them score. It cannot even be disputed UNLESS you have a well below offense, which we do not.

Umm, with all due respect, this is really not the kind of stance you should be taking at this point in your tenure here. You should care what the more established members here say to you, if anything some of them may only be trying to protect you from yourself.

If you take away half of Pat’s TD passes in 2020, then he had a totally mediocre season. Do you see how stupid your logic is?

"Freeway" is the Chiefs letting them score defensive play call...

Link: https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2022/...te-nfl-week-17

Again, Spags with the right call at wrong time.

/thread

Do the analytics take into account the Chiefs have Mahomes & everybody else doesn’t?


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Maybe they shouldn't have been able to tackle Tyreek on his route on the 2nd drive or call Whylie for a BS hold on another.

Reid is a terrible chess player
 

Double post.

Did it at that point in time? Ancient Alien Astronaut Theorists say No.

Let's look at the big picture.

The Chiefs have committed 43 defensive penalties in 1,006 defensive snaps through the Bengals game. Of those, 4 have been offsetting, 13 have been declined, and 26 have been accepted. So, through the season you have a 4.3% chance (rounding up) of getting called for a defensive penalty) on any given play during the game. That's a rate of about 23 plays per penalty.

I don't have total snap data by quarter and phase but let's assume that, at this point, those numbers are relatively evenly distributed. The Chiefs have committed 16 penalties on defense in the 4th quarter in what we'll call 252 plays, which means that the likelihood of being penalized at some point in the 4th quarter is 6.3%. That's a rate of about 16 plays per penalty. This is being generous to your cause and saying KC is more likely to commit a defensive penalty in the 4th quarter than in any other quarter (they are, to date).

If we're being real about it, the squalor over the "let them score" mantra truly started at the 3:14 mark with the 1st and 10 at the 11, where the Bengals went on to run 11 plays. I'll be overly generous at this point and discount the fact that KC had already been flagged for their 4th quarter penalty per game when Jones got flagged for encroachment. If we discount the kneel, spike, and field goal, that's 8 actual plays. So it should be a coin flip on whether or not KC would commit 1 penalty defensively at that point.

The Chiefs were called for 2 penalties with one having less than 1% chance of happening (the offsetting penalty). You can't reasonably assume that your team will get called for 2 penalties in the final 8 plays when it's doubtful they'd even get one after the Jones' call.

And the funny thing? Cincinnati has committed 14 offensive penalties in the 4th quarter. They've played 995 snaps on offense this year, so roughly 249 snaps in the 4th. So the likelihood they get a penalty? 5.6% or 1 in 18 plays. They had the same likelihood, for the most part, and committed 1 penalty.

In either case, I'd much rather take a chance a penalty could be called on my defense and the 55% chance the Bengals score a TD from the 11 than hope I can get the game to overtime. The most OTs in a season, ever, was 25 which means over a season only 4.9% of games go to overtime (and usually less). I don't have the numbers readily findable, but I have to imagine the chance of a game going to overtime with one team down 7 with 2 minutes or so to go is really, really low. Almost assuredly it's far less than 1%. The likelihood of winning in overtime is a 50/50 proposition that compounds your already insanely narrow odds of coming back to begin with. The odds, most definitely, are far higher if only down 3 (even if they remain low overall).

I can't find anything fallible in the decision metric.



.

Even if you just let them score, how does anyone know the refs weren't going to just flag the Offense into the ground?

The big picture is that even the Chiefs have admitted they should have let the Bengals score earlier.

So you can stop wasting your time writing another incoherent 10,000 word thesis trying to prove otherwise.

Ah yes, black swan theory at its finest... Don't be so naive.

There are about 3 people here that truly believe letting them score was even remotely a good idea. I've provided you with a relatively good approximation of the statistics that prove it was not just a bad idea, but a truly terrible idea.

BTW, reading comprehension does go a long way. This is a forum, not Twitter.

The Chiefs were called for 10 penalties in the game, 7 on defense, SIX that resulted in Cincy first downs and you are attempting to make an argument that it was an unexpected outcome that the Chiefs would get called for a defensive penalty during that fateful sequence of goal line plays?

Were you watching those shitty refs at all during the game?

Given the situation the Chiefs were in when Cincinnati had the ball at the 1 yard line with first and goal, a 4th down passing play with nearly a minute left was a pretty great scenario. I mean it worked out beautifully in our favor right up to Cinci being ballsy and going for the TD instead of the FG. But you know...refs.

It was hard to see the Bengals getting THREE ****ing fresh sets of downs when they were at the 2 yard line.

I bet Reid would suck as a wrestling coach too!

I am thinking he would be average. There is a lot in football which would translate to wrestling. what he does not know he has shown the ability to watch tape and learn.

I guess he's a decent Chiefs football coach though, despite his possible shortcomings in other sports.

I don't think they were real motivated to score until it got to 3rd down.