Another opportunity for Veach to show his worth.

There are going to be a lot of divergent opinions on these similarly situated Edge rushers. So that means either 1) Veach's favorite attainable option could slide or 2) There will be opportunities for reasonable trade ups when other GMs who are a little more tentative on their evals for these guys decide to just slide down a bit and take who's left over.

This is another 'scouts draft' at least as it relates to the DE position. And that's where I think a good GM can really prove his value. There's going to be a way for Veach to get a difference maker at DE in this draft - he's just gotta be right.

I was just coming to this thread to add Kyler Gordon to the list.

Too many people I respect have him in the 1st not to acknowledge that he’s a legitimate possibility.

Great fit with his size and freakish athleticism.

Don’t have a problem taking Elam over Ebiketie, but no ****ing way I’m taking him over Walker.

Honestly, I think Walker has a solid shot at making it to 30, and if he does, I think we run to the podium to make that selection.

Like Jermaine Johnson, he’s really just a perfect fit.

If the Chiefs keep #30 and get one of Jermaine Johnson, Trevon Walker, or Cam Thomas, I think I'm pretty ecstatic. Even if they address DE in free agency with a couple of good veterans, that's an exciting player to add.

It's a really good DE draft. In all likelihood, one of Johnson, Walker, Thomas, or Karlaftis is going to be available at #30 and that's really stupid.

There’s a good 4-5 DEs that I’d be happy coming out of the first round with. Add that to a couple of a DBs….and we’re going to be good.

DE seems to be a real 'market ineffeciency" kind of spot in that there's always vets hanging around to be had that can come in and make a difference. Get 2 or 3 of them this year.

I'm interested to see just how much Veach plans on reworking that defensive line as a whole.

You've got Danna and Kaindoh at DE. Then Jones, Wharton and Saunders at DT.

There are a couple of guys that could fill in at the back end of rotations in Herring and Calhoun.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/edge/all/

Pick a couple guys from the mid to top of that list.

I think you need to change that sorting from Edge to Defensive Line. There's no way that Veach doesn't bring in another DT....more than likely a starter alongside Jones.

Either way. They've gotta get better there.

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing them bring Reed back. I think he suffered a lot from lack of talent at DE.

They REALLY need to fix the Clark situation before they do anything else. He HAS to go.

I really don't see how they bring him back. People can scream pay cut from the mountain tops but why would Clark do that? And even if he did...you aren't getting a large enough pay cut to make it worth it.

Exactly. The obvious choice is just getting rid of him.

D.J. Jones, DT, SF
Lorenzo Carter, EDGE, NYG

And re-sign Melvin Ingram.

100%.

And even if he elected to cut his base salary from the $20+ million that it is right now down to the bare minimum of $1.5 million.....I don't want him here. He'd be taking snaps from guys that actually ****ing try once and a while.

Arden Key, DE, 49ers
Melvin Ingram, DE, Chiefs
B.J. Hill, DT, Bengals

That would work too.

I’m also interested in what happens with Lawrence and the Smiths.

If they get cut, they’d be high on my list as well.

Demarcus Lawrence? I'm out on him.

Injuries and he just had a huge contract with Dallas. It's not like he's going to come cheap. Someone will pay him for his past production and I hope it's not us.

I want the Bills defensive line. Young talent and depth.

All of it. Do ALL of it.

3 new veteran DEs that can contribute right away. A 1st round DL and a 3rd round DL that can backfill (hell, make it a 2nd round DL).

Fix this MFing line. 1 sack against a dude that got sacked 18 times in his 3 other post-season games is just the most embarrassing damn thing I've ever seen.

The offense is fine. It's more than fine - it's still elite. The thing that failed against Cincy was the thing that has NEVER failed in the past (the QB) and all the WRs in the world wouldn't have fixed that. He wasn't looking at anybody or pulling the trigger on open targets anyway.

And man, when you have a 3-score lead against a team you KNOW has to throw the ball, that defense should be able to grab them by the throat and shake them till they die. Yeah, the offense killed us, but it sure would've been nice had the defense done more than bleed out slowly and instead really put their foot on Cincy's throat. It's what good defenses do and what we should've expected from ours with the resources we've put into that DL.

And maybe fixing the defensive line would lessen the need for Spags to blitz constantly.....and for them to get home when he actually does.

Get rid of both, I don't want Reed back, he did absolutely nothing bar a couple of games.

I'm not sure I agree with this endless picks and FA approach to DL. Our DL is a mess, it needs fixing, and we probably can't take risks so need to load up. But we need another WR, S, CB, probably a linebacker. I want good players getting snaps as much as an endless rotation of edge rushers.

With a strong play in FA and the draft, there's no reason they can't completely rebuild the DL AND address those other positions.

They did it last year with the OL. Veach has proven he can do it.

Your optimism is infectious. I'm in!

Well, at this time last year, I was firmly in the camp that we'd likely have 1 new start on the OL. I said repeatedly that there was no way they'd turn over the whole line like people wanted.

I was wrong. I learned my lesson about doubting Veach.

Yup.

The money wasn't even the biggest problem I had with him this year. I said it several times - it was a sunk cost.

The problem was that he just isn't any ****ing good. The elite run defender crap was just that - crap. The pass rush was only worth a damn for about 6 weeks around mid-season. Then he just went back to that same old arm bar into spin move nonsense that just flat doesn't work. He can't hand fight, he's not quick off the line. He tries to win with power but he doesn't present a credible enough threat with speed to get OTs into any sort of vulnerable position.

Frank Clark does, in fact, ****ing Suck.

And spare the the intangibles shit.

You're absolutely right - Buffalo is the blueprint to target. Our from a different angle, our OL is the blueprint. Get a splash FA if possible, a reliable young veteran, another fallback older veteran with a little gas left in the tank and throw draft capital at a long-term solution.

Just friggen fix it already.

DJ, I noticed you mentioned Sanders earlier. You’d take him in the 1st?

He's on my list, though not at the top of it (that's Walker, who I've spoken about several times).

The thing about Sanders is that he's so damn raw. And the production hasn't always been there. But holy hell did he dominate that Cotton Bowl. The traits are absolutely there to be a heck of a DE and you wonder how many of his pressures could've been sacks w/ a little more support around him on the DL.

But there's a lot of Rashan Gary potential there. Gary was a guy I HATED in the draft because he just didn't produce. Looked like Tarzan, played like Jane. I definitely preferred Burns and Sweat. But at the back of the 1st w/ a dire need at DE, I'd have taken Gary (who went top 10 for some bizarre reason).

And after 2 years in the NFL of finding his way, Gary was pretty good this year. And that's a possibility we might have to accept with someone like Sanders.

But I think he can be an outstanding player if he can get his production levels to match his raw talent.

Agreed. I’d be hesistant to take him at 30, but he’s my dream pick in the 2nd if we don’t go edge in the 1st. I’d even be willing to trade up for him if we fill enough holes before the draft.

Yeah, I acknowledge that he's a little bit of a reach at 30, but I don't think you get him at 45. There are just too many tools for those dregs at the top of the draft to pass on him.

And in the end, when you're going to spend the next 10 years drafting at/below 25, you need to have patience. You're not gonna stumble into too many turnkey superstars. So if there's a guy with top 10 traits but who may require additional development to get there and he's available to you at 28 or 30, then I think you have to go ahead and grab him.

Yea well that won’t go over well on CP because apparently the only pick we can possibly make is somebody that is going to have a big impact right away.

But I agree, which is why I won’t write off Ebiketie or Sanders at 30, despite having a 2nd round grade for both.

Let’s say these 3 pass rushers are best available at 30:

Ebiketie
Thomas
Sanders

But these other guys are also available:

Trent McDuffie
Kyler Gordon
Kaiir Elam
Daxton Hill
Jaquan Brisker
Drake London
Jahan Dotson
Trevor Penning


Who are you guys taking?

I like Sanders in 2 but I think he has far too many holes in his game right now to be a 1st rounder. You never know though, the guy could blow up at the combine and all of a sudden you have a guy that gets drafted earlier than he maybe should based on traits and flashes.

I'm not opposed, just more stating my feelings on the guy.

I might take Thomas but I think I'd wait and see if Ebiketie falls to our 2nd. There's an awful lot of really good talent in that 2nd list.

Honestly, I probably take McDuffie or London in that situation.

Then I’m seeing how fast Sanders, Ebiketie, Williams, Bonitto, Mafe, etc. start coming off the board to figure out when/if I have to trade up.

Whoever I take at 30....I'm trying my hardest to trade back up in the 2nd round and grab whoever falls from that list.

That's kind of what I was thinking when I looked at it the first time.

A guy like Ebiketie might be there at 40. Get a DB off that list in the first and then trade up for DE in the 2nd. We have some ammo.

Hell...just to hear all the bitching and screaming that it's Speaks 2.0.

With any luck, he might be Tamba Hali 2.0. He has a similar profile for sure...

Depends ALOT on free agency, to be honest.

If we don't re-sign Ward then I'd have a hard time passing on Kaiir Elam as I think he's the best player on the list overall.

I really like Cam Thomas as an edge though, he may trump all for me if Ward is retained.

I'm very interested in Penning if Ward is retained and ER and S are addressed in some fashion in FA. I think Penning could play RT this year and move to LT next year if KC doesn't re-sign Brown long term or just stay at RT.

I like Brisker, just depends on what happens with the position. If we're void a safety he's a guy that's hard to pass on.

Yep. If we can find a way to get him in the 2nd...then I'm all good with that. And that's even if we go DE in the 1st as well.

But Elam and Ebiketie in the first two rounds would be excellent.

Oh be ready for that if they take Sam Williams.

Agree with all of the above. Those are probably my top 4 "realistic" prospects.

Why? He's like the athletic opposite of Speaks.

He's more like Justin Houston in that he's only ranked where he is because of off-field.

The dude is a top-15 talent. He may very well run a 40 in the 4.4s and has the production to boot.

If Veach and Co feel comfortable with what happened with the titty grab or whatever it was, then he could very well be on the table in round 1.

Because most idiots will just see that we traded up in the 2nd round for a DE and scream that it’s speaks all over again.

Or if we draft Pickens in the 2nd that it’s Hardman 2.0.

Because idiots will look at the team and the position and make a lazy comparison.

Cameron Thomas.

And if either of those remaining DE’s slide to us in the second or even within trade up range with one of our 3rds, I take him as well and smile.

Maybe I’m just not in a proper headspace right now but there’s damn near no limit to the attention I’d give the defensive line. It’s absolutely killing us. And if those early season struggles on defense contributed to plays from Mahomes that shook his confidence, then those are issues we never truly cleared.

Fix the DL, dammit.

I've really been warming up to Ebiketie lately. He feels a lot like Melvin Ingram, but with longer arms.

I think Ebiketie has 34 inch arms on his 6'2 frame while Thomas measures in about an inch shorter.

I think Ebiketie could emerge into one of the best pass rushers in the league and would be a top 15 pick if he were 2 inches taller.

What I like about Thomas is the physicality and the type of build. He just looks like a born SDE.

Ebiketie is a little longer, a little more angular in his build. He just seems less likely to be a true 3-down guy. I do think he has a little more pass-rush potential than Thomas and perhaps a higher ceiling, but I see a super high floor on Thomas as well as a more versatile, if perhaps not as dynamic, as a skill-set.

But that's why I said take Thomas AND either Ebiketie or Sanders. Because those are just outstanding complementary talents. Throw Thomas at SDE and either of the other 2 at weakside and you could really have some exciting shit long-term.

But if I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the guy who I think can translate well to SDE and then if necessary take a more explosive hybrid type, shift to a 4-3 Under front and send the hybrid guy out into space or rush him as needed.

I think Thomas and one of Sam Williams, Boye Mafe, Drake Jackson, or Nik Bonitto would be a nice pairing as well.

And just for the record - I think Thomas will be a riser. As more and more teams get eyes on his tape and they see his versatility, he's gonna sneak into the top 20. What will set him apart in some ways is scheme versatility. A 3-4 team can use him as a 3-tech in either a 2-gap or 1 gap scheme. A 4-3 team can use him at a 5 tech or even pop him inside as an under-tackle in pass-rushing downs.

I don't know that he's QUITE bendy enough for a real 7/9 technique, but I'm betting he can do the job in a pinch.

When literally every team in the draft can find a way to use him, one of them is going to pull the trigger sooner than we think.

Absolutely. Same idea - take the SDE in the first and a real twitchy guy to play the LEO.

I just can't figure out if that's something Spags has any interest at all in these days. He certainly hasn't given any indication of it since he got here.

That’s where we get back to it becoming a numbers game. If that happens, I feel a lot better about Walker, Karlaftis, or Johnson possibly falling to us.

Somehow I've spent the last two weeks convincing myself I like Thomas more than Karlaftis.

This is the kind of shit that happens when you don't have anymore football to watch. I think I'm being a bit too cute there.

But yeah, someone's gonna be there at Edge that I like. I just don't see it getting picked that clean.

Where would you rank Jermaine Johnson and Cameron Thomas?

We go through this every year. Some teams are going to take guys we don't think they should and one of our guys (or more than 1) is going to fall to us.

It's a straight numbers game to start with and then you add in weird shit like the Raiders taking Leatherhead and moving the entire board down.

I like Winfrey quite a bit. Natural pass rusher who can still get better vs the run. If they forego DT in the 1st then I'm hoping for UConn's Travis Jones on day two. He's more of a run plugger in the Mike Pennel mode (6'4" 330) but is more explosive. He's one of those strong af guys that muddies things inside but flashes some pass rush prowess here and there.

Real close. And can both be used almost identically.

I'd probably take Johnson over Thomas because he appears to be a little more athletic. But Thomas seems to enjoy being physical a bit more. And the combine could dispel some of those thoughts as well.

Another slight edge for Johnson is he played in a Power 5 conference and had some nice games against quality opponents.

I wouldn't complain about either and ultimately would be surprised if we were left with an actual choice. One of them may be there, but I doubt both will.

Seems like there is a frantic rush on first round ER's every year>
Im sure Burt has got a great plan b,c,d,e.....

When have we had success on a first round WR?
I have ptsd on that...maybe D. Bowe

Man, go get this kid.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Eq3rdjfQQrU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:facepalm:

Two first round RBs is how you win in this league. Everyone knows that.

I bet they can get him in the 2nd.

Veach says he is rebuilding the DL right?
Lets go big DT with a motor if all the edges are gone

DJ, you had me here. There is no head in the right space here - it is off of the top of your head and I trust YOUR instincts. I will consider you my ride or die throughout this offseason and draft. I like the way you think and I believe in your opinions. GEAUX CHIEFS! :thumb: Time to focus on the defense - no matter what the cost. This team WAS KILLER in the 90's on defense. Time to get that back.

If I were Bert Veech, these would be my positional picks:

1st round – Safety
2nd round – DE
3rd round – WR
3rd round comp – CB but if a can't miss RB is available, go that route.
4th round – the above but interchangable (RB or if a can't miss corner is available)

Horrible strategy

Gotta be more flexible than this.

Just based on the strengths of the draft, it’s likely the best player on the board at 30 is a S or DE. I’d put the highest odds on DE because there are about a half dozen guys worth that selection who COULD be there. At S, you’re talking about 3 or so. One of whom is going to 5. It’s possible Hill and Brisker both go in the teens/20s, which would make S a bad pick at 30.

I think it’s likely they draft a DB and a DE with their first two picks, but the combination just depends on what other teams do.

That 90's defense is never coming back. The rules have changed too much. Plus, we're an offensive team both in spirit and financially.

Agreed - the league just isn't built for those kinds of defenses anymore.

But we do need a defense that can lean on a team. When the offense goes out there and gets an 18 point advantage, we need a defense that can treat the opponent like they're 'short stacked' and use that edge to just bury them.

I don't think it's realistic to expect the team to out there and build a defense that will win you games 17-13. But the defense absolutely has to be able to be sitting on a 21-3 lead facing 3rd and 5 w/ 3 minutes left in the half and the opponent buried in their own territory and finish that goddamn football game.

Or at least make the drive uncomfortable. The Bengals converted that 3rd down from their own 35 and 4 plays later had a touchdown.

Defense in today's NFL is about situational success. And this defense was ostensibly built for EXACTLY that scenario. But they just didn't come through. There's no reason we can't continue with the same sort of approach but execute it better. And the way to do that will be to continue to stack depth in the secondary while constructing a D-Line that can harass quarterbacks when they're in do or die situations.

We used to look at the QB position and say "Hey, we don't need a guy that will play a perfect game every time out. We need a guy who, at least once or twice in the post-season, can pull a game from the fire and steal us a win..."

Well now we have the inverse. I don't need a defense that wins us 4 games in the post-season. I need a defense that will get out there and just once or twice find a way to get us a win when the offense just wasn't firing on all cylinders.

That's not asking too much, IMO.

I’d be happy with a defense that doesn’t shit on themselves and is at least consistent.

No taking 7-8 weeks to get up to speed and no crapping out in the playoffs.

Better tackling.
No blown coverages every game.
Should at the very least feast on shitty offensive lines.

That's why I keep crapping on the 'team leaders' nonsense.

Man, this defense routinely played down to its opponents. That's a failure of leadership and nothing else. They'd go out there against these lousy O-Lines and instead of simply demonstrating that they're a deeper, better unit, they'd half-ass the game and wait for the offense to pull it out.

The 'leadership' provided by Clark, Hitchens and Mathieu was ass. I'm just not the slightest bit interested in paying for the intangibles of ANYONE that has been on this defense the last several years. It simply hasn't born out.

They have to be able to routinely play to their true talent level. There has to be a reliable, consistent baseline that lets the team know what they're going to get on a day to day basis. This core group simply hasn't provided that so it's time to broom the lot of them.

All 3 of those guys were imports. It's time for a home-grown leadership core on the defense. Bolton and Sneed is a start; they both play with fire and tenacity. Jones really should be but he's not that kind of guy. Thornhill could ascend in the absence of Mathieu. Now you stack the line and find a guy who's willing to take the reigns there as well.

Hitchens was gone the second Bolton was drafted. He had no chance.
Clark was gone the moment he couldn’t beat third string tackles.
Mathieu was gone the second he threw up his arms on blown coverages. Act like a ****ing leader, douche. You can’t celebrate with Sorensen when he makes a play and then call him out like that game after game.

The team will spend heavy focus and resources on pencil neck quarterback crushers.

Yep, I agree with both of you. Just need a solid defense that doesn't get gashed with big plays.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Need a pass rusher?<br><br>Breaking down the top-100 by position gives a good look at where the strengths are in this draft class.<br><br>17 EDGE<br>14 WR<br>11 CB<br>10 LB<br>10 OT<br>9 iOL<br>7 SAF<br>7 DT<br>6 QB<br>5 RB<br>4 TE</p>&mdash; Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler) <a href="https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/1493954697652281351?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 16, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Can somebody post his top 100? :D

I've got a subscription. Let me see if I can pull it.

We need DE, WR, and CB. Imagine that. :D

This is from McShay on ESPN+

NFL mock draft 2022: Todd McShay's post-Super Bowl predictions for all 32 first-round picks, including QB landing spots

30. Kansas City Chiefs
Jahan Dotson, WR, Penn State

Kansas City could fixate on defense, considering it allowed 5.9 yards per play in 2021 (30th). The pass-rush needs attention, and Penn State defensive end Arnold Ebiketie would fit the bill there. Defensive backs Tyrann Mathieu and Charvarius Ward are currently without a contract, so UTSA cornerback Tariq Woolen might be in play. And there will be more turnover on the offensive line, too, even if the Chiefs re-sign Orlando Brown Jr.

So a receiver? The Chiefs will still have Tyreek Hill, Mecole Hardman and Travis Kelce next year, but quarterback Patrick Mahomes thrives on distributing the football. Byron Pringle and Demarcus Robinson are headed toward free agency. Dotson is lightning quick in and out of his breaks, and despite a 5-foot-11 frame, he can pluck on the run and produce after the catch. He'd be a great possession receiver for Mahomes after catching 91 passes in 2021, including at least five in 11 of 12 games. Dotson would be the sixth receiver here, and it'd be the third straight class of at least five first-rounders. That has never been done.