There's really no reason at all to even consider the roster as it stands; with 12 picks in the draft, cap space, and what...two waves of FA still to go, the roster in September will look much, much different.

Don't freak out right now. Embrace change.

This is very true. But I'll wait to embrace change until I see the finished product.

Thanks for your breakdowns, Wilson. Other than the loss of Hill on offense, I don't see anyone else we'll miss. I wouldn't mind having McKinnon back, but I'd wait until after the draft.

You can't deny losing Ward hurt. I'm not going to address Mathieu, he's dead to me. I wouldn't be too upset if we resigned Ingram on the cheap, but again no one seems to be knocking down his door.

I would like to see a WR in the 1st along with a DE. I don't think we have to trade up to get quality at both those slots. A couple of CBs in the 2nd or 1 each in rounds 2 and 3 would be nice. I wouldn't be opposed to packaging a couple 7s along with a 4th to move up for another WR. When you get right down to it, the money is made in rounds 2-4. We might just be better off to see who's available as an UDFA and take a long look at those already signed to futures contracts.

Like Chris said, we still have a couple rounds of FA to go, so there's no sense in spending all our available money right now.

Just need a WR1/WR depth, DE reinforcements, a nickel CB/depth and the Chiefs are set.

I don't think we need to chase a WR1 in FA, but rather get those in the draft. With MVS and Juju in hand for this season, we can groom that rookie (or 2). Unless Hardman has a breakout season, he probably won't demand something we can't afford next year. WRs 5-6 are normally ST guys you put in the game because someone got dinged. Seriously, does anyone think we're going to go 10-7 without Kemp or DRob?

Ok? And they still have 2 more players who had more yards than Juju and MVS and Hardman. With a lot worse qbs.

So same list as before free agency started except now we're also looking for starters as well as depth. Splendid.

Yes, but now we have more resources to fill these positions and have a lot more flexibility beyond that in future years. Is that really so hard to acknowledge?

Outside of our superstar QB it’s a pretty average roster.

This draft is so huge for the future of this franchise. Veach needs to hit on these picks. We need to get a couple pass-rushers, WR and help in the secondary.

I understand. The thing is that you want to act like the draft is anything close to a sure thing and that we'll get contender level play from a bunch of rookies. History says that's not likely to happen. And that's why it sucks having the same/bigger needs than when we started free agency. We won't even be able to develop rookies slowly and at their own pace because we kind of need them to be good right away.

Yeah, unless we get three or four rookies to step into impact roles right away, this year may be a rebuilding one. Veach was able to land Humphrey, Smith and Bolton last year. He’ll need to match that kind of draft.

What kind of user name is Phoneix ?

Did you mean to put Phoenix and you're an idiot and misspelled it and now stuck with it?

What is Phone IX = Phone 9 ? Are you some cool rapper named Phone 9 ?

Should we be impressed?

Inquiring minds want to know! :hmmm:

When did I act like the draft was anything like a sure thing? Please find that post of mine indicative of such.

I fully expect 2022 to be a down year for the Chiefs. But I expected that even before the Hill trade because all our divisional/conference competitors had improved dramatically and we had too many holes/too little cap and draft flexibility to comfortably fill them.

At least now I see a vision for the next several years as we re-build the roster, get younger, and prepare for the second phase of Mahomes.

Your expectations were in the wrong place if you didn't understand how much the rest of the conference had done to catch up to us even before the Hill trade and how there was little we were able to do to compensate.

We made 4 AFC Championship games in a row by rebuilding the DL in an ofseason/re-building the OL in an offseason, and this is when the bill for Clark, Thuney, OBJ, etc all comes due. Just as people were wrong to view those as immediate success stories in isolation, people would be wrong to view the Hill trade as an immediate failure in the same way.

I understand where we stood relative to the division. I now understand that for the next year and couples years after that, we'll likely be in an even worse off space. Which sucks.

I can't believe we had a few years of competing and now people want to go into rebuilding mode already just because competition got better. But then again, you guys weren't in rebuilding mode until Veach traded Hill and you had to cope.


In a week span you guys went from talking about how the chiefs were still better than rivals but now it's all about how we needed to rebuild and shit and how you already expected a down year LMAO. You guys made that transition a little too fast for me, I have to take some time to adjust.

I can’t speak for everyone else but I’ve been saying that shit since before FA.

11th pick.


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The roster as it stands
 

29th & 50th = 15th
30th & 62nd = 18th


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You guys? Do I need to show you the posts where I said I was terrified about what other teams were doing this offseason?

And who said anything about rebuilding? We couldn’t responsibility pay Hill given the other needs on the team. So we went in another direction to re-tool. They’re not the same thing.

I realize you’re a little, well, slower than most others here so it’s understandable it takes someone like you a little bit more time to adjust.

Ingram. No one mentions Ingram but he was defensive MVP last year imho

No. You haven’t read a word I have been typing. I said our #2/#3 are better/on par. We don’t have a #1. I have made that pretty clear.

When? Last year when JSS missed 12 games?

It’s my name dum dum and it’s pronounced fo-neex

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Camp cut if you ask me

Why can't you pay Hill and still be able to afford other players? Hill is making $23 million a year. Meanwhile we're paying MVS and Frank Clark $18mil each of the next 2 years. Would you rather have Tyreek hill for $23mil or MVS and Frank Clark for $18?

And we would still be able to afford Juju with Tyreek under contract and still have about $15mil in cap space for this year.

Juju had 129 yards in 5 games.

Extrapolated over 17 is 438 yards.


That's abysmal.

Clark was a sunk cost. You can't get that money back.

Now 'extrapolate' one of his other seasons LMAO.

C'mon man.

He's a solid WR. Him and Tyreek would have made a good tandem. Just sucks that he might be our #1

Ok but you just said Bronco QBs were trash and we all know Rothisburger was trash last year so… plus everyone knows JSS is not a #1 and that’s how they were trying to use him.

Just...let him go. He's on a roll.

He's our 2A/2B with Hardman at the very highest.

Yeah and they all still put up or were on pace for 700+ yards with Lock and Bridgewater. Juju was on pace for 438.

Do you think 129 yards in 5 games is good or something?

So that leaves MVS as our #1 or as our #3. I can't figure out which is worse. Having a player like MVS as your 1 or paying $9mil a year to your #3.

No, we couldn't. Clark's contract was different. We were stuck with $13.5M dead cap. Hill was going to walk next year, so why not get something for him. One superstar WR does not make a championship team. We still have a couple players that can make an impact, and oh yeah, there's a fella named Mahomes at QB. Step back from the edge, take a deep breath, and burn the #10 jersey. He's gone, just like K. Hunt was and just like other players will be.

Like I said, it's a bad roster held up by an all world QB.

Dude, you don't even understand how Frank Clark's contract works with the numbers you've been spouting which is miraculous as much as it's been discussed here. Don't pretend like you have any clue how this roster is built or what constraints we would otherwise face. It's embarrassing to watch people put arguments in front of you that you just ignore because somehow you can find math (with numbers that aren't even right) where we keep Tyreek Hill for this season.

And oh, this season is all that matters according to you.

If you feel so angry about what I'm saying and think I don't know what I'm talking about, just ignore my posts.

So what are the frank Clark numbers for this year and next year. Did we not add money to his dead cap number next year? Do you think it's a good thing to re-structure your worst defensive player and have to pay him even more when you cut him?

And no, we would still have had money in future seasons with the moves I suggested. Funny enough they were some of the same moves suggested before FA vegan and we traded Hill. Now suddenly those same moves would have cost us our future. Funny.

When you consider he had a geriatric throwing him the ball... Come on man!

I think people forgot about all the cap we gave up and all the picks we handed away to buy our 2-3 year window. But the nucleus of the team was built on solid drafts and finding great value free agents. And our dollars were spent not on long term stopgaps but short term guys who are only there until we can draft a replacement.

Losing tyreek hurts but our spending spree is not a sustainable way of winning. It’s a small risk but the reward to this approach is huge and reasonably achievable

#1, #2, #3, who gives a shit and what does it even mean?

First of all, there is ZERO chance that we're done with the position.

Second, the #1, #2, #3 is bullshit fantasy football speak that has nothing to do with actual football. X, Y, and Z do. The individual play calls will determine who's your first read, second, etc. Whoever gets open first gets the ball.

Hill's targets will get spread around until someone separates themselves from the pack by getting open more reliably.

right now, MVS is your deep threat, Juju is your short to intermediate guy, and Hardman is your 'manufactured touches' guy for jet sweeps, WR screens, and the occasional fly or post route. More or less, depending on the play call.

So we have NFL level guys at each spot. Now we'll draft a guy or two, and there'll be another round of free agency, and when it all shakes out, some of these guys will get more snaps than others.

So freaking out about things in March is stupid.

dude, you're either remaining willfully ignorant or you're just dumb as a stump. Pick one.

Then call him #2. Good contract.

The roster clearly isn't as strong as it has been in recent years, at least prior to the draft.

However, looking at the roster situation of other AFCW teams they are likely going to follow a similar path in a year or two. Overthecap currently has the Chargers at $8.6 million in 2023 cap space prior to the draft. That number doesn't include Derwin James and Justin Herbert will be extension eligible after this year. Tillery, Adderly, and Tranquill are other starters that are UFA. They're going to be in a cap crunch in short order, they only have 29 players under contract for 2023 and little cap room.

Denver has around $16 million, but it's also a given that Russell Wilson will need to be signed to a huge extension as 2023 is the last year of his contract and he's only set to make $27 million. Bradley Chubb is also a free agent.

LV might seemingly be in the best cap situation, but they also only have 21 players under contract for next year and Carr is a free agent. Good luck paying that sack of shit $40+ million a year as his market will command. Waller probably also needs a new contract, and overall their roster still isn't that great even with Carr, Adams, and Waller. We've also seen that WR can fall off fast after 30, so good luck in LA and LV with both Adams and Allen set to turn 30 this year.

Even if KC should fall out of the lead in the AFCW in 2022, I think the fall is short lived. Once Wilson, Herbert, and Carr are all on contracts equaling or surpassing Mahomes in 1-2 years we're going to see all 3 teams fall back to Earth with KC entering their second window within 2 years. Chargers in particular had better take advantage this year because that window is going to be a short one.

I was partly thinking the same. If we draft well and don't lock in anymore mad Clark type contracts, I think even if we have a down year, maybe even 2, these teams have to come out the back of these windows at some point and they will be f***ed, and we'll be ascending again.

Should have won more than one SB on Mahomes' rookie contract.

So are your planning to spend the rest of your life crying about it? And how should the fact that we only won a single SB during his rookie contract impact roster building going forward?

All you do anymore is bitch in hypotheticals.

If you could add Williams or Olave to that wi would be filthy imop.


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Jesus man. 4 straight AFCCGs, 2 Super Bowls and a world championship wasn’t enough? Dude. Tune out of CP till after the draft. We haven’t even replaced the resources we traded away yet.

Get balance before freaking out.

If the teams outlook to you after the draft is still doom and gloom, it may be time to take a break.

Hell ya. I kinda like Watson too. But I don’t know a bunch about him.

Would you rather have MVS and Frank Clark for $19mil next year or Hill for $23?

that's a complete and total false equivalency and you know it (or you should).

And no matter how much anyone explains it to you, you're just going to continue with your fake take.

and even if your money was right, the question would be-would you rather have MVS, Clark, 5 draft picks, probably 2 or 3 other players or Hill for more than $23m?

I'll take column B everyday.

all of these signings, guys, are basically so that we're not forced to do any one thing come the draft.

We have tons of draft capital and can move around if we want, or we can sit and take a bunch of bodies.

There's no reason to get overly excited about anything right now.

All I have to say about this:

• The team's ROI on Hill is epic
• I don't understand why Miami gave up so much for a WR
• We're about to see how much Hill's presence affected the other targets

I don't like losing him. He's a weapon that will be missed but long term I think it was the right move even if unpleasant for Chief fans. A multi-millionaire in Miami...where do I sign?

This is good post...dont forget both Vegas and Denver have entirely new coaching staffs.

I would never do what the Raiders did...pay a record premium for an older WR from a team with a perennial MVP QB. Mahomes got Albert Wilson payed...haven't heard his name since.

How good will Adams be with Carr? He has to be the very best/completely dominate (Randy Moss) to justify what he cost...I think he'll be good but the return on that deal has about a 2% chance of being justified. Raiders arent competing for a SB anytime soon...dumb move from every angle. Carr might be kicked to the curb after this season...McDaniel inherited him and his contract is up.

Are they really going to throw $40+ million at a guy who has never won a play-off game?

Chiefs are ahead of the curve...they have two drafts this year and the best QB in the NFL under contract.

He was injured and had Broke Dick Ben Rapenbooger and his popgun arm, it's amazing he had that much production.

If you had any capacity for abstract thought you'd be able to grasp the concept of context.

But you don't.

Interested in how DRob and Pringle pan out in their new homes as well.

Carr isn't near the caliber QB Mahomes and Rogers are.

No comment...

I wonder how many GM's said it was stupid to sign a $9 safety before locking up your best player.

You give Hill an extra $6mil, you draft a S, and don't lose your best player on offense...

Obviously, we will miss Tyreek this year on offense, but I like the overall construction of our roster right now. Have room to play and possibility of an elite draft haul.

The other 3 teams may have a little window against us for the next 2 years (and they better take advantage while they have the chance), but if Veach and our scouts hit right and put together a couple good drafts between this year and next, we're gonna go on another 5-6 year run of dominating this division.

Will be a thing of beauty.

Time to get work done, Burt and Co.!!

LOL. Yup, that’s the decision that was made. It was Reid or Hill.

The Chiefs acted like they were surprised Hill wanted to be paid. Come on. They're not that stupid. Of course he wanted to get that big contract.

The truth is a bad Frank Clark contract locked up some cap. Pat could have converted like $16 million to give us space. They knew they were doing this. This wasn't a surprise they just want us to think it was...

Did anyone besides us read that Peter King article at all?

Rausch kant reid.

As if this post wasn’t dumb I enough already, the details of MVS contract make it even worse.

I used to just give you a lot of shit because you are a contrarian.

Now you’re just ****ing dumb.

No, I think you've got it all wrong here.

Of course Hill wanted to be paid, he just went higher than The Chiefs felt it was prudent to go.

Clark's contract is an issue, but it's sunk cost, and it helped get us a SB win, so whatever. It was almost as cheap to keep him now as to cut him, so who cares?

The Chiefs aren't blowing any smoke up anyone's asses; they offered Hill a boatload, just not a big enough boatload.

Converting Pat's deal forward is more of the old way. This is the New Way. The Old Way was Pat on a rookie deal, get the pieces you need at whatever cost and go win a SB. The New Way is-Pat's getting paid, be prudent with free agency, trade high when you can and stockpile picks to fill your roster with young, cost controlled talent.

You're going to have to get used to it. This is how you stay a contender for decades. You don't do it making anyone other than Mahomes that huge chunk of your cap.

Veach did the prudent, smart, ballsy move. He set a line and when that wasn't enough for Hill, he moved him for a king's ransom. The team overall is in much healthier shape now moving forward.

We 'MIGHT' have a slight downyear, although I'm not conceding that at all. The next 5 years, however, should have a re-loaded Chiefs kicking the crap out of everyone else in the AFC that'll be entering cap hell because they were desperately trying to match us.

I think it's brilliant. It's a big swing of a bet on our scouting, coaching, and front office-but it's the only way to really build a dynasty with the salary cap. It's what The Patriots did. This is The Way.

A lot of words here, but wouldn't you rather have Hill than Clark and MVS?!

So were the other receivers in Pittsburgh. They all played with the same shit qb. Had different results though...

Did you expect the corpse of Big Ben to be good enough to support 3 WRs putting up big #s?

The fact that you choose to focus on a 5 game sample size as opposed to 2020 says everything about your miserable existence.

I mean he's one of the "NOT ONLY NO, BUT **** NO" people who instantly saw the light the second Hill was traded LMAO. Isn't it funny how that happened?

He was decent in 2020. I would have taken him as a WR2 next to an elite player like he had when he was in Pittsburgh no problem.

The issue is that once he became the main receiver in Pittsburgh, he hasnt looked anywhere as good as he did those years and other WRs passed him up. So yeah, having him as our #1 or our #2 to MVS ain't really the rosiest picture.

Can you please update your thoughts after learning about Clark and MVS's cap hits this year? I'd like a running diary of your views as you realize you know less and less.

Sure. MVS is a $9 mil cap hit next year. Clark is also a $9 mil cap hit.

I believe DJ made SEVERAL posts breaking down the contract. You can read those to get a full view.

Uhm, we all understood the contract and how it was structured. It's nice that you finally got around to reading about it and figured things out given that you were making arguments based on things you didn't understand. Certainly took you long enough to get up to speed.

You just happened to start by making the argument that Hill this year at X was much better value than MVS, JuJu, and Clark at Y. Unfortunately you had no idea what you were talking about and now keep shifting the goalposts.

It's really not worth the argument.

It is better value. Hill is a much better player than both of them combined. He gives you elite output for $23 million. MVS and Clark give you average production for $18. And most of that comes from MVS. Clark gives you nothing.

It's like buying a Pontiac Aztec for 800k because you don't want to pay a million for a supercar.

Man we lost a lot. Veach needs another big draft or this could get ugly.

Clark's contract really doesn't matter. We were going to be charged $13M against the cap ($6.5M post June 1) anyway. It was a question of do we pay Hill the big bucks and have no wiggle room or do we trade him for our future? Where do you think we would have had the money to sign FAs or rookies to fill out our roster? I don't know how hard that is to understand.

What do y’all know about DT Larry Ogunjobi? He’s a free agent. 7 sacks last year. But he has a hurt foot?

Are you truly so dense that you believe MVS and Clark have anything to do with their decision to trade Tyreek?

Like you can’t possibly be this ****ing stupid.

They didn’t trade Tyreek because they couldn’t afford him this year. They traded Tyreek because they can afford it long term.

God damn you are ****ing reeruned.