Oh, and lastly, i agree with Chris Meck. The route running thing? GMAFB.

If you have quick feet, loose hips your route running will be fine. 2nd most over rated trait in scouting imo, right after collegiate stats.

Add to that a large catch radius, good hands and the tenacity and agressiveness to attack the ball in traffic? Yeah he'll be just fine.

I have no idea what you're going on about.

What I meant is that yeah, it's a route tree. How can they not learn it?

You guys make it sound like Pickens has no idea how to play WR. This is absurd. Is he likely to be a little rawer than some others based on the style of offense he played in and the routes he's run? Sure, maybe. Or maybe not, and there's just not a lot of tape on other things. At any rate, we have one of the best offensive minds in the history of football here in KC. I imagine they can tighten up some sloppy route running. I mean, that's why you have coaches.

But when people act like the guy has no idea how to run a route, that's completely asinine. It's a bunch of people that have read a couple of blurbs and want to spout some bullshit and act like they know what they're talking about.

Trying to make it sound like the guy is a straight line go-route guy and that's it is DUMB.

Some people want to talk themselves into "Jameson Williams is the only real true #1 receiver in this draft and all of the rest are trash".

It's ****ing stupid.

Route running most definitely matters in the NFL and it matters more than anything else. That doesn't mean because a guy isn't great at it in college that they can't or won't learn it, but it's one more box to check on their way so the learning curve is longer. It's not just learning what the routes are, it's learning how to run them crisply and sell them against the defender. Also, athletic abilities don't mean a guy will just become a good route runner. They need to have the dedication and drive, as with any other player doing any other thing, to get better at it. Not all of them do though, and I'd wager a great many. It wouldn't preclude me from taking a guy, but if two guys are sitting there with fairly identical traits, I'm going to take the better route runner 10 out of 10 times.

That said, there are rarely two identical physical prospects out there but one runs shit routes and the other doesn't. And generally, there are other factors at play too aside from just routes. Athleticism and the ability to catch in traffic are definite factors. All 3 factors came into play last year when I looked at Elijah Moore vs Rondale Moore who were similarly-sized prospects with similar NFL positional outlooks.

Given the overall complexity, you have to slot guys based on the potential of all things. A guy can learn to run more sophisticated and more crisp routes. A guy can develop better hands. Guys can't learn size, speed (limited), or physicality. There's a reason to take Pickens over say, Skyy Moore or Jahan Dotson. While Moore and Dotson have high floors and could be 1k/6TD WRs, they simply lack size, athleticism, and the physical ability to just beat anyone. Pickens has those things, and if he learns to run routes well and stays healthy he will beat anyone and could be a 1500-yds, 15 TD WR that forces the double-team and makes defenses adjust to them.

Pickens is oozing with elite potential and he's not "that" far away from reaching it. A guy like Watson though, he's much, much further away than Pickens. Now you have to start wondering if the investment into getting him there will be worth the return (before he hits FA and is doing it for someone else), if it ever is. That's where I think you take the higher floor guy, when the high ceiling guys start looking like too significant a project to make sense at that draft position.

No one mentioned that UGA ran a very conservative offense and was run based? They pound the ball and only required their WRs to be good athletes and run go routes. It got them a national chip but didn't help much w/ his development. Still, it doesn't mean that he is unable to run these routes. DK is an beast who can't move like that. Pickens still can. He'd be great at 30, if we're unable to trade up and if he falls to 50?

<iframe src="https://me.me/embed/i/18710226" width="500" height="736" frameBorder="0" class="meme-embed" style="max-width:100%;margin:0 auto;" allowFullScreen></iframe><p>via <a href="https://me.me">MEME</a></p>

Keysor’s breakdown of Pickens did point out a lot of positives re: route running. Good change of direction. Understanding of little nuances to work open. Etc.

So I think he’s already better than Georgia’s 1987 usage of him suggests at route running.

He was a guest on The NFL Exchange pod picking for the Chiefs in their mock draft (just for 29).

He took Pickens.

Answering your questions below…. I evaluate wrs based on what I think is a good fit for mahomes. I think mahomes does best when he has wrs with separation. He’s been unlucky with tipped balls and can get in his own head. But mahomes has performed best with wrs that can create separation so that’s the wrs I look for. I evaluate my own guys. My opinions maybe wrong but they are mine. I can be swayed with good arguments. I didn’t like watson at first. Small school, lack of comp, drops, limited routes…. But the more I watched him, he’s got athletic traits that translate to one of the best wrs in the nfl. Will that happen? I don’t know. And to answer your question, pickens has great hands. His drop rate is really low. Pickens also tracks the ball well on deep routes. He also high points the ball well. Watson is more of a question mark in some areas but I’m comfortable with him coming year one and becoming our gadget guy. Watson played rb quite a bit. He’s got speed at every level. His burst and short area quickness are sick as well as his top end speed. Watson shows the athletic ability to get coached up on his route tree. He hasn’t been asked to run very many routes and has tended to round those off. But when you watch him with the ball in his hands, he’s got the feet and athletic ability to get better. He’s a small school guy with elite athletic traits that can be coached up. Until he’s coached up, he can be our gadget guy and get better over time.

But...I read on Chiefsplanet that he had terrible change of direction and couldn't run routes at all. I'm confused.

I do feel George Pickens is criminally underrated around here. He's my WR6 behind Burks.

It has been extremely “rare”, when he has not been available at 50, in all my mock drafts of late. He’s normally the first WR I’ve selected, at that time.

I bet he goes before us

I do NOT think he will be there at 50.

Its either take him in the first or trade up in the second and by that I mean into the 30s or very early 40s, probably 30s. If any team took another position in the first, they will take him next round. We have 18 teams in front of us in the second.

https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/st...y-5MMu8tpoGqTA

"If in three years George Pickens is the best WR from this draft class, I won't be surprised.

Some of that of course depends on where he lands (it does for everyone), but his ability is WR1 material."

Sorry, don't know how to embed tweets

Pickens at 29

Dax Hill at 30

Two starters with probowl potential. Yeah ,sign me up.

id be happy with them and it allows us to attach edge on the second and third.

I’m going to be so easy to please.

Yikes! Something going wrong at Picken's interviews... "The Pickens' interview was horrible," said a NFC director of player personnel. "He's barely alive on our board and still could get dropped off."

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPac...ens_character/

Hmmn. Interesting.

Not buying it. Source is already questionable, and to hear that this late in the game out of nowhere reeks of lying season bs.

I'd assume its smoke signals also but those are pretty strong words to be flinging around.

Not when nobody is putting their name on it.

I mean I would entertain submarining my interviews with teams that are shit and shine in the teams I am actually interested in.

How exactly do "character concerns" come up in an interview, exactly?

I could see a team coming away with the impression that a player is not smart. Or dreadfully inexperienced. They could think the player was unprepared for the interview, which could lead them to think he won't work hard.

But like... they already know about any character concerns given that most of that shit is public and could be discovered by any jackass with an internet connection. And if there's stuff that's not public information, how are they going to figure that out unless the player straight up says, "Yeah, I love drugs and committing crimes. And I think all coaches are dweebs."

I always question information from Walter and Charlie as 100% accurate but they have no reason to lie, only those giving them the information. That's some pretty damning accusations so I guess we'll find out this week if true or not. Given the number of Bulldogs already with questionable histories, I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility. That said, I do have suspicions it's teams picking at the top of the round that want him to fall to the 2nd, but if they aren't bluffing he's going to fall hard given everything else that's already questionable.

You may be right, as I ran several mock drafts today using pff draft, and “always” is picked in that 33-38 range. It’s odd how the returns on several of these mock simulations have such huge variance.

So...Green Bay wants Pickens! Right in front of us too!

Maybe they try to take him to the board and he doesn't have his X's and O's down? Big Ego? Small IQ? Blunt about not wanting to play for crap organizations? IDK exactly but I suppose thats why they do these interviews.

The coaches and scouts The Athletic talked to in their Draft Confidential piece weren't big fans of Pickens either.

Yikes.

Interesting that there are hidden character concerns that emerge in an interview process and which start circulating a week ahead of the draft. We, the fans, will have to see how it shakes out in the draft to know how true they are.

I think it will come down to Pickens or Watson for the Chiefs.

Im starting to lean more towards Watson. Pickens is better right now but the injuries are a big concern. Not sure if I believe the character concerns but if they pick him, then Im fine with that too.

Watson has some amazing qualities and that ceiling could be HUGE!

I wouldn’t be mad if they drafted Alex Pierce. I may be in the minority here, but even in the 1st round I’ll be good with it.

I don't think there's anything hidden about George Pickens' concerns.

I mentioned it over a month ago with my first eval of him. I noticed a lot of "extra" going on after plays. You can note numerous corners that clearly had some bad intent for him. Giving him "the business". Clearly an indication of some jawing going on.

He has a play where he got tackled and grabs the defenders face mask and yanks it around.

He was penalized for squirting gaterade on an opposing player while on the sideline.

On his first game back from injury he was thrown out after getting into a fight on the field. He grabbed dude's facemask and threw him into the wall by his helmet.

There were some serious character red flags ON the field, so it's not surprising to see these scouting rumors.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/sBGw5MruxAyiI" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/abcnetwork-sBGw5MruxAyiI">via GIPHY</a></p>

Get ready for dissappoint, we're taking Moore.

NOOOOoooooooo....

Idk, it'll depend on how he interviews.

He's a hot head on the field.

But i think it also manifests in positive ways too. He'll lay his body out there to make the catch. He's a ferocious run blocker.

He's a passionate guy. It just depends on if the Chiefs think they can channel that passion.

I'd rather take the chance to channel that passion and talent then go with Skyy Moore.

If it's between Moore or Pickens...then I'm going Pickens. I just like guys like Pierce and Tolbert more.

The Pickens red flags seem a bit overblown IMO

I like Tolbert, I'm way off on Pierce. Late 2nd at the absolute earliest.

ESPN analyzer suggests Pickens first opportunity to be drafted is at #30 to the Chiefs, but it's unlikely: http://espnsportsanalytics.com/

He'll be there again @ 50 imo.

Why?

I'm warming up to this guy.

I complained about his separation earlier but I think I may have been wrong on him. Might be the exception. He seems like a legitimate possibility

Are y’all concerned about burks 3 cone of 7.28? I know he’s a big guy but that’s concerning?

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/treylon-burks

Deebo, who’s often comped to, had a 7.03 3 cone at 214 lbs. burks was 225 but 3 inches taller.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/deebo-samuel

No DK Metcalf had a 7.38

DK isn’t a gadget player. If you draft burks, you’re hoping for some of those deebo gadget plays, right? Will burks have the quickness at that size to be a gadget player? And Dk is huge and ran a 4.33. Burks ran a 4.55.

Big guys aren't quick. It's kind of a rule.

6 of the tes at the combine had 7.06 3 cone or quicker.

It's a huge concern for me. Others on here say he plays faster than he tests. But the tape on him still looks slow to me. He works in RPO situations though.


https://i.imgur.com/XLRe20g.jpg

Burks doesn't really fit this offense.

Looks stiff as a board to me, and less physical during routes than I expected, great off the line though. A really good straight line athlete but I'm not sure he's ever developing into a rounded receiver. If we want a guy for go routes, perfect, no problem with him.

I've not seen his RAS though so no idea if he's more agile than I'm imagining, or if I've missed his better plays. I don't hate him in R3 but wouldn't want him earlier.

His combine RAS was 9.62

I don't see what you see at all. But who knows?

Unless we're talking Christian Watson.

/duck for cover

Anyone expecting Burks to be Deebo will be sorely disappointed.

He is nowhere near the threat that Deebo is with the ball in his hands.

Watching that clip of Burks take a WR handoff around the corner was cringe. That is not his game. The Deebo comparisons are kind of lazy. They're mostly based off physical appearance IMO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nick Bolton was drafted with pick 58 of round 2 in the 2021 draft class. He scored a 4.62 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 1161 out of 2155 LB from 1987 to 2021. <a href="https://t.co/eBxiv4gUsq">https://t.co/eBxiv4gUsq</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RAS?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RAS</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://t.co/pJtZskZjBr">pic.twitter.com/pJtZskZjBr</a></p>&mdash; Kent Lee Platte (@MathBomb) <a href="https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1388299024780963847?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Those measurables on Bolton is why I've always found analytics to be useless garbage.

Why do people put any credence into RAS scores?

Top 10 Chiefs in terms of RAS scores include the following players:
Brian Johnston (DE) perfect 10
William Bartee (CB) perfect 10
Brad Cottom (TE) 9.5
Omar Easy (FB) 10.0
Fujita (LB) 9.96
Jeff Webb (WR) 9.9
Chris Conley (WR) 9.68
Mike Capatano (DE) 9.81

Exactly. It’s just a tool, not the gospel.

Watch Burks play. He's plenty fast.

I never said RAS was gospel.

I just think that if you have a low score I'd like to hear the reason why a player is going to be better than that score.

For instance people said that Bolton had elite anticipation and understanding of where to be and when. As far as I can tell that prediction was 100% accurate.

The guy who creates RAS is constantly tweeting outliers, guys with pretty low scores who succeed despite them. It's just kind of the exception, you don't disprove all RAS scores by showing one example of a guy who scored low and succeeded anyway. It doesn't pop the bubble.

Why didn't you include all 10?

It's possible to let RAS, or a version of it, factor into a decision without being the driving force. I'm betting that is how most front offices use these types of analytics. I doubt any halfway decent GM would make a draft decision based solely on RAS.

That score doesn't claim to account for skill, instincts, vision, or character. All pretty important variables.

Nick Bolton is a good example. His main attributes coming out were his instincts, processing, and tackling ability. That pretty well shined through watching him play last year. No one would call Nick Bolton a freak athlete in today's NFL, but he's a damn fine linebacker.

No, I see AJ Brown.

which is fine. that's a useful player.

Good comparison!

Watch Burks! He isnt Drake London, he regularly takes it to the house. Pulling away from DBs on his way. RAS says he shouldnt be able to do that but he does! I would take him over Drake all day and yet Drake is ranked much higher.

I like Burks just fine.

I'm not in on London. I just don't see that translating to the NFL. I see Kelvin Benjamin.

I'm not fond of either one of them.

Which Benjamin? Fat Benjamin?!


It doesn't matter if you like London. Actual NFL teams do.

Yeah well, that's just...like...my opinion, man.

Mike Williams was a recent top ten pick and just got a contract for 20 million a year.

You may not be a fan of the style of WR but London is a better prospect than Williams was. Quicker, more agile. Also strong on the ball.

yeah, well...that's just like...YOUR opinion, man.

Where do you expect London to get drafted?

middle of the first.

Doesn't mean I have to like him. I see a 50/50 ball guy. I see no explosion, no speed. I just don't think he IS Mike Evans, I think he's a slower Mike Evans and I don't think that's going to do much in the NFL.

Just my opinion, I don't care if you agree really. I've already wasted more time talking about London this morning than I'd prefer.

What "tape" are you watching?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Uxmk0MpDyTo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I don't see Mike Evans either.


Maybe a giant Thielen. 6'5'' guy that runs NFL routes and has strength/agility on the ball is going to work for quite a few teams.

I don't think he makes it past 10 with the Jets.

Possession #1 WR.

Oh look it's that one play from Alabama again that everyone uses to reference his speed.

Nothing personal, it's just hilarious how often this clip is used to defend the "he's faster than he times" narrative.

Nice play and all. Now go find the clip of him running a WR reverse and it's like watching a goddamn TE trying to turn the corner.

There's clips of him playing faster than he times. There's also clips of him playing as slow as he times. His speed is certainly debateable.

AJ Brown is the comparison i wanna make too, but AJ Brown is a better athlete and tested higher.

ESPN+ Content:

What are the off field issues? Just the knee? I've seen him sliding over the last two weeks and several people saying he could slide to the back of the second.

There ya go. Granted, that's ON the field. I haven't heard a peep about "Off-Field". I'm assuming what they mean by "Off-the Field issues", is a poorly worded way of saying character concerns due to him being an immature hot-head on the field.