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-   -   Chiefs 8/3/22 Training Camp Discussion (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=344676)

saphojunkie 08-03-2022 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16393984)
How good of a pass-blocker is Ronald Jones? That could put him over the top if he's on the bubble, but if he sucks, who he is beating out to get a roster spot?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ronald jones is 145th among 151 RBs in PFF&#39;s pass blocking grades this year. oh god. oh god.</p>&mdash; Denny Carter (@CDCarter13) <a href="https://twitter.com/CDCarter13/status/1474372297989529605?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Abba-Dabba 08-03-2022 06:50 PM

I'm thinking that Rojo probably would be a little better in power run formations than McKinnon is what may set him apart. McKinnon you always have to worry about how fragile he is.

FringeNC 08-03-2022 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 16393986)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ronald jones is 145th among 151 RBs in PFF&#39;s pass blocking grades this year. oh god. oh god.</p>&mdash; Denny Carter (@CDCarter13) <a href="https://twitter.com/CDCarter13/status/1474372297989529605?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He's not making the roster.

FringeNC 08-03-2022 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge (Post 16393988)
I'm thinking that Rojo probably would be a little better in power run formations than McKinnon is what may set him apart. McKinnon you always have to worry about how fragile he is.

McKinnon was explosive in the playoffs. How do you cut him? I don't see it. If Pacheco makes the roster, and Ronald Jones is terrible at pass-blocking, I can't see keeping him over McKinnon or trimming a TE or WR spot to keep Jones.

BWillie 08-03-2022 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphojunkie (Post 16393986)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">ronald jones is 145th among 151 RBs in PFF&#39;s pass blocking grades this year. oh god. oh god.</p>&mdash; Denny Carter (@CDCarter13) <a href="https://twitter.com/CDCarter13/status/1474372297989529605?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I want him cut, then. Our only use for a RB is to catch passes and block.

saphojunkie 08-03-2022 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16393989)
He's not making the roster.

We'll see. The night is young.

TwistedChief 08-03-2022 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16393992)
I want him cut, then. Our only use for a RB is to catch passes and block.

How slow are you? Do you think Veach just read a tweet from December 2021 like you did? We all knew this was a major deficiency.

I think the dude will easily be our best pure RB.

RealSNR 08-03-2022 07:04 PM

8/3/22 Training Camp Discussion
 
Think there’s a team stupid enough to trade for one of our RBs?

Houston gave us that worthless **** Martinas Rankin for Carlos Hyde. Think they’d do it again?

MVChiefFan 08-03-2022 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16393997)
How slow are you? Do you think Veach just read a tweet from December 2021 like you did? We all knew this was a major deficiency.

I think the dude will easily be our best pure RB.

This. He’ll definitely be our best short yardage/between the tackles runner. Again, I think CEH offers the least in the running back room. We have two, maybe three guys on the roster that can do everything better than than he does.

FringeNC 08-03-2022 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16393997)
How slow are you? Do you think Veach just read a tweet from December 2021 like you did? We all knew this was a major deficiency.

I think the dude will easily be our best pure RB.

How many RBs will we keep?

RustShack 08-03-2022 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16394002)
How many RBs will we keep?

I want to say normally we’ve had 4 + 1FB.

TwistedChief 08-03-2022 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16394002)
How many RBs will we keep?

I think it’s tough because the WR and TE rooms are also deep.

My biggest issue is BWillie’s making it seem like that was some big reveal that the team wasn’t aware of when it signed him. We all knew that the guy wasn’t great in pass pro and he wasn’t the best out of the backfield. But the guy is easily our most explosive and violent runner and we completely lacked a breakaway threat who could muscle through tackles last season.

We have a RB room with a lot of complementary pieces. I loved McKinnon at the end of last season like everyone else but there’s a bit of a red flag there that the guy barely played before that. I’m not certain the team is as high on him as CP might be.

Abba-Dabba 08-03-2022 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16393990)
McKinnon was explosive in the playoffs. How do you cut him? I don't see it. If Pacheco makes the roster, and Ronald Jones is terrible at pass-blocking, I can't see keeping him over McKinnon or trimming a TE or WR spot to keep Jones.

I don't really know how I can justify cutting McKinnon TBH. He fills a lot of check marks for Andy Reid's wants in a RB. I do think that Rojo does make those 2nd/3rd and shorts open up the playbook in those inside runs more so than McKinnon. But McKinnon's being injury prone is a real concern.

CEH has had his injury issues, McKinnon is fragile. If they go down, you have Pacheco, a 7th rounder with zero NFL experience. I know these TC reports are all glittery and toasted marshmellows on Pacheco making the roster on a few early comments. But let's see what the preseason games bring before we start anointing 7th rounders the next coming of Kareem Hunt before opening day.

I am going to go on record here the RB room is CEH/McKinnon/Rojo with Pacheco protected on the PS squad. Never know though, maybe we can spin off McKinnon or Rojo for a future pick.

neech 08-03-2022 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatfishBob2 (Post 16393975)
Pacheco looks like he has great hands and can get to the edge and make people miss in space.
My gripe with him is it doesn't look like he knows how to set up blocks and make something out of nothing...which I think you have to do in the NFL unless you play for a team like the 49ers

How dare you.

GROB 08-03-2022 07:41 PM

What is the expectation of the KC D this year? Haven't heard much just more about the O without Hill.

BigRedChief 08-03-2022 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR (Post 16393134)
That's ok. I'll get my ass to Best Buy right now and pick up some insider information for ya'll

The Olathe one?

R Clark 08-03-2022 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16393992)
I want him cut, then. Our only use for a RB is to catch passes and block.

Except a little thing called power run game on first down and on the goal line

Kiimo 08-03-2022 07:51 PM

But Pacheco is bigger, stronger AND faster than Ronald Jones.

Why not have McKinnon and Pacheco be our 1-2 punch? I'm of the opinion that we could see Pacheco do anything RoJo can do?

I know, 7th round pick. Whatever. Damien Williams was undrafted and was a Super Bowl Hero

Stryker 08-03-2022 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldman (Post 16393825)
He won't be alone in that. If the DL can keep the opposing OL busy, the trio of Gay, Bolton, and Chenal will surely **** some people up. It'll bring tears to my old eyes!!

I'm not worried about Kinnard. He's a 5th rounder that we knew was raw, at least for NFL play. My hope is he progresses enough this year to sit Wylie's ass on the bench or better, on a Greyhound out of town.

Did BV kill it again with Pacheco? I hope so. Let's get behind those hogs and run the ball right down the other guys' throats!!

Man brother this! :thumb:

FringeNC 08-03-2022 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16394040)
I think it’s tough because the WR and TE rooms are also deep.

My biggest issue is BWillie’s making it seem like that was some big reveal that the team wasn’t aware of when it signed him. We all knew that the guy wasn’t great in pass pro and he wasn’t the best out of the backfield. But the guy is easily our most explosive and violent runner and we completely lacked a breakaway threat who could muscle through tackles last season.

We have a RB room with a lot of complementary pieces. I loved McKinnon at the end of last season like everyone else but there’s a bit of a red flag there that the guy barely played before that. I’m not certain the team is as high on him as CP might be.

CEH is a lock. I don't think you can hide Pacheco on the PS with all the buzz now. I doubt we keep 4. I don't see how both McKinnon and Jones make the roster. It's one or the other. Tough call. The roster is just loaded on offense.

Halfcan 08-03-2022 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubberSponge (Post 16394045)
I don't really know how I can justify cutting McKinnon TBH. He fills a lot of check marks for Andy Reid's wants in a RB. I do think that Rojo does make those 2nd/3rd and shorts open up the playbook in those inside runs more so than McKinnon. But McKinnon's being injury prone is a real concern.

CEH has had his injury issues, McKinnon is fragile. If they go down, you have Pacheco, a 7th rounder with zero NFL experience. I know these TC reports are all glittery and toasted marshmellows on Pacheco making the roster on a few early comments. But let's see what the preseason games bring before we start anointing 7th rounders the next coming of Kareem Hunt before opening day.

I am going to go on record here the RB room is CEH/McKinnon/Rojo with Pacheco protected on the PS squad. Never know though, maybe we can spin off McKinnon or Rojo for a future pick.

Pacheco can't be our kick returner if he is on the practice squad.

Halfcan 08-03-2022 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 16394069)
But Pacheco is bigger, stronger AND faster than Ronald Jones.

Why not have McKinnon and Pacheco be our 1-2 punch? I'm of the opinion that we could see Pacheco do anything RoJo can do?

I know, 7th round pick. Whatever. Damien Williams was undrafted and was a Super Bowl Hero

Yep, not sure why people keep saying 7th rounder- yeah, we know- Veach explained that he expected talent there.

McKinnon has a long injury history, doubt he makes the club.

Abba-Dabba 08-03-2022 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 16394075)
Pacheco can't be our kick returner if he is on the practice squad.

I agree 100%.

Stryker 08-03-2022 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin (Post 16393930)
I hope he makes the roster

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Hcc2dgke_Vw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Me too! I really like this guy and have high hopes for him! So stoked to see how he does in the pre-season games. :thumb:

TwistedChief 08-03-2022 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 16394076)
Yep, not sure why people keep saying 7th rounder- yeah, we know- Veach explained that he expected talent there.

McKinnon has a long injury history, doubt he makes the club.

Veach could've drafted ANY RB in college who wasn't picked in the first 6 rounds and he was going to be a 7th round pick. Whether he should've been a 7th round pick or never been drafted at all.

It doesn't automatically mean that he struck gold or that Veach foresaw the bright future.

Kiimo 08-03-2022 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halfcan (Post 16394076)
Yep, not sure why people keep saying 7th rounder- yeah, we know- Veach explained that he expected talent there.

McKinnon has a long injury history, doubt he makes the club.


McKinnon is fast and easily the best blitz blocker. I think he has a better chance of making the team than RoJo

neech 08-03-2022 08:14 PM

I thought Rojo looked a little small at there when I seen him I was like so that’s Rojo?

CatfishBob2 08-03-2022 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC (Post 16394073)
CEH is a lock. I don't think you can hide Pacheco on the PS with all the buzz now. I doubt we keep 4. I don't see how both McKinnon and Jones make the roster. It's one or the other. Tough call. The roster is just loaded on offense.

Pretty sure we could get away with him on the PS even though if he does well on ST he won't be there. There's buzz at TC all over the league. Has Mckinnon even practiced yet?

Kiimo 08-03-2022 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neech (Post 16394093)
I thought Rojo looked a little small at there when I seen him I was like so that’s Rojo?

Yeah he's 5-11 208 pounds. I say this only because those are my exact stats too lol

neech 08-03-2022 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatfishBob2 (Post 16394103)
Has Mckinnon even practiced yet?

You can thank me later
https://salinapost.com/posts/4cd3485...3-e4b61c101017

neech 08-03-2022 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 16394108)
Yeah he's 5-11 208 pounds. I say this only because those are my exact stats too lol

Maybe he was standing on his tippy toes.

TwistedChief 08-03-2022 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 16394121)
ROJO? Are you serious? I have to ask, what are YOU seeing? I do not get this, especially from you. I value your opinions but need reassurance on your thinking on ROJO - he has been practicing with the #2's. Please enlighten me.

The Chiefs had a horrific RB room last year. If you look at the advanced stats, we had as much daylight (thanks to our OL) as nearly any other RB room in the NFL and then did less with it in terms of earning extra yards. CEH was miserable. McKinnon didn't even see the field.

When I say as a "pure RB" I am not remotely talking about an "all around" guy. But 1st and 10th or 3rd and 3 and I'll take Rojo over any of them many times over.

-King- 08-03-2022 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neech (Post 16394115)

Pacheco, along with Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Ronald Jones and Jerick McKinnon have gotten most of the snaps at running back with the first-team offense.

LMAO

Stryker 08-03-2022 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16394132)
The Chiefs had a horrific RB room last year. If you look at the advanced stats, we had as much daylight (thanks to our OL) as nearly any other RB room in the NFL and then did less with it in terms of earning extra yards. CEH was miserable. McKinnon didn't even see the field.

When I say as a "pure RB" I am not remotely talking about an "all around" guy. But 1st and 10th or 3rd and 3 and I'll take Rojo over any of them many times over.

I love it! Question, what about Reid NOT using the running game as much as people seem to want? Does that kind of snuff the candle before it is even lit? Follow me?

Kiimo 08-03-2022 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16394132)
The Chiefs had a horrific RB room last year. If you look at the advanced stats, we had as much daylight (thanks to our OL) as nearly any other RB room in the NFL and then did less with it in terms of earning extra yards. CEH was miserable. McKinnon didn't even see the field.

When I say as a "pure RB" I am not remotely talking about an "all around" guy. But 1st and 10th or 3rd and 3 and I'll take Rojo over any of them many times over.

You and I want the same thing. A RB to do better with the huge advantage our line gives us than what they did last season which is nothing.


Whoever wins out, RoJo, Pacheco, McKinnon, it's going to be better than last season and we'll be happy.

TwistedChief 08-03-2022 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 16394135)
I love it! Question, what about Reid NOT using the running game as much as people seem to want? Does that kind of snuff the candle before it is even lit? Follow me?

When he used the running game, it was so much less effective because of our RBs than it should've been. We literally underperformed if we just simply had JAGs by a meaningful amount.

That's probably why a coach like Reid who usually is running averse anyway was even more in that direction this past season.

-King- 08-03-2022 08:41 PM

Pacheco will make the team as a kick returner cause Toub for the most part just wants an athlete back there and he is that. Don't see him cracking the RB rotation though unless he's just amazing in preseason and even then, we saw Derrick Gore be amazing in preseason and then still get buried on the depth chart. It's going to be hard.

CatfishBob2 08-03-2022 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiimosabi (Post 16394137)
You and I want the same thing. A RB to do better with the huge advantage our line gives us than what they did last season which is nothing.


Whoever wins out, RoJo, Pacheco, McKinnon, it's going to be better than last season and we'll be happy.

I'm not so sure about that. If these guys play to their potential and stay healthy then of course. I would include CEH in that too

BWillie 08-03-2022 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Clark (Post 16394062)
Except a little thing called power run game on first down and on the goal line

Running on first down in the NFL can be equated to sacrifice bunting in a baseball game. There is almost no reason to do it unless your quarterback is Drew Lock or Daniel Jones or something.

Stryker 08-03-2022 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 16394140)
When he used the running game, it was so much less effective because of our RBs than it should've been. We literally underperformed if we just simply had JAGs by a meaningful amount.

That's probably why a coach like Reid who usually is running averse anyway was even more in that direction this past season.

Thanks! That makes complete sense and I appreciate your explanation. :thumb:

Dunerdr 08-03-2022 09:09 PM

Is anyone else worried that Kinnard was projected as a guard by most but a tackle by us, like Cam Erving.

xztop123 08-03-2022 09:18 PM

Rb position and the absence of dirty dan and hitch will be the biggest improvements

The things that concern me are

1) how much did hill impact the offense
2) is the o line quick enough to pass protect
3) will missing matheaus amazing touchdown saving open field tackling hurt us

Tribal Warfare 08-03-2022 09:43 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> ST coordinator Dave Toub has a lot of control over the bottom of the 53-man roster. Here are some of the players he currently likes: <a href="https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c">https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c</a></p>&mdash; Chiefs Wire (@TheChiefsWire) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheChiefsWire/status/1554536561961828353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Spoiler!

Dunerdr 08-03-2022 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16394202)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> ST coordinator Dave Toub has a lot of control over the bottom of the 53-man roster. Here are some of the players he currently likes: <a href="https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c">https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c</a></p>&mdash; Chiefs Wire (@TheChiefsWire) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheChiefsWire/status/1554536561961828353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Spoiler!

I read this entire thing. Then thought I don’t give a shit about special teams or Toub. That’s how much I’ve missed football.

BWillie 08-03-2022 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16394202)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> ST coordinator Dave Toub has a lot of control over the bottom of the 53-man roster. Here are some of the players he currently likes: <a href="https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c">https://t.co/sllXmNGo2c</a></p>&mdash; Chiefs Wire (@TheChiefsWire) <a href="https://twitter.com/TheChiefsWire/status/1554536561961828353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Spoiler!

Its a good thing special teams barely matter. With offense production going up, special teams production is less important than ever. Punts going down, and kick off returns going up where the nfl made it so almost everyone isn't returnable anyway. Outside of kicker...its not a gamechanger.

Hammock Parties 08-04-2022 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 16394290)
Its a good thing special teams barely matter. With offense production going up, special teams production is less important than ever. Punts going down, and kick off returns going up where the nfl made it so almost everyone isn't returnable anyway. Outside of kicker...its not a gamechanger.

they matter when they go wrong, and they never go wrong here


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