Any other steals people are seeing from the admittedly small sample of preseason games?

Sanborn looks like one at LB for Chicago. Isaiah Likely? I liked him but sorta wondered if he'd be a tweener - not big enough to block, not shifty enough as a receiver. Guy looks lights out.

Martin Emmerson looks way better that I thought he would. I know lots of people liked Erik Ezukanma. Again, I just didn't see it, but he's also looked great.

Nick Cross was my "better than Cook" pick and he went a round later, and he's looked very good. But to be honest I'm not sure he was more productive, his athleticism just looked a notch above to me.

I quite liked Zach Tom and apparently he's been good for the Packers. I didn't think he'd be ready so soon.

Malik Willis will be starting by mid season

They all suck dick. Big dick, small dick, your dick, some dick.

After they done sucking dick...

Tyler Allegeier and Christian Benford look rock solid to me.

I mean I didn't rate most of them so if they're sucking that much dick then...cool. Benford does look decent. Only thing solid about Allegeier is the dick he sucks...actually he looks alright.

Pickens - minimal contribution the 1st game
NE WR - injured
Alec Pierce - dropped TD, concussion.

All hail Burt’s Skyy pick so far.

Pickens may end up being terrific, but I'm not sure 1 catch on 3 targets for 3 yards is something to get too excited about.

I mean, Skyy had all of 13 offensive snaps and had 1 target.

So I'd say that qualifies as 'minimal contribution in the 1st game' as well, wouldn't you?

Not sure there's any real distinctions to be drawn after a single game here, fellas. And as has been noted by several - I'm not sure it matters anyway. Pick's made, guy fits the system - onward and upward.

Again, Pickens may end up being outstanding, but I'm certainly not seeing it at this point. Are you sure you aren't talking about Diontae Johnson?

Agreed, although it's good to see him getting reps in the return game as well.

Did you watch Pickens in the first two preseason games that I was referring to in my post? Are you sure you know the difference between Diontae Johnson and Pickens? #18 is Johnson, #14 is Pickens.

Pickens had 1yd on 45 snaps.

Skyy had 30 on 13.

So yeah, way more productive.

Lord knows I love me some George Pickens, but he really didn't look that good in his first game.

https://youtu.be/ITpUpookvbc

Moore has honestly impressed me much more on punt returns. His hands are ****ing insane even though I've felt my stink wrinkle clench on a couple of the ones he brought in.

As a Jets fan I'm very happy with the early returns from our rookies, but I should be with 4 picks within the first 36 selections in the draft.

2 snaps on offense yesterday.

Maybe hold off on sucking his dick for a bit, fellas.

Dotson has been impressive.

You jumped off the bandwagon. I was always on it.

But I kind of think his play early on is getting more praise than it deserves. Aside from the TDs, his #s aren't all that special.

Still thinks he's going to be a good solid player in the mold of Diontae Johnson though.

Drake London is probably the most underrated offensive rookie so far. 160 yards and a TD. Saw him make some good ass plays.

He looks really good, but I think Garrett Wilson has been the best of the rookie skill position guys. London would be #2 for me.

The Jets finally played him, due to injury, and he exploded for 100+ yards and 2 TDs with Flacco throwing the ball.

When the fantasy gods open a London, they close a Pitts....or something like that.

Because man - Kyle Pitts ain't getting SHIT for looks right now. And yeah, London is clearly Mariota's top target.

Wilson was my top WR prospect in this class. Not sure if he has the ceiling that Olave has or maybe not even London, but he was just a turnkey difference maker. He does everything crisp and clean out there.

With competent QB play he could be an 80 catch, 1200 yard guy this year. Then again, London could as well. Really nip/tuck between those two right now. I'd take Wilson over London but man, they sure seem inclined to get London the ball any way they can.

And that is criminal...

They should trade him. To us. For Buchele. I mean, did you see Buchele in preseason? :)

It's alot of things in my opinion. Some the QB, some the Falcons using Pitts as a clearing mechanism, sometimes some shit play by Pitts too (standing still in a the heart of a shallow zone for his QB to make a shitty dump pass for a pick stands out).

Treylon Burks was catching a lot of shit for being out of shape in OTAs among other things, but dude has looked pretty good so far with limited opportunities.

Pickens made a spectacular OBJ-esque one-handed catch on TNF. Sucks that he has Trubisky for his QB.

Looking like I whiffed on that one. Didn't think he had the quickness to translate and didn't think his size would matter as much at the next level. He's looked much better than I expected.

He also threw a little tantrum on the sideline.

And earlier in the week, he threw Trubisky under the bus saying that all the WRs were getting open.

Great talent, but clearly not a culture fit in KC.

Tyreek Hill has spent 2 months taking thinly veiled shots at the organization.

Meanwhile he was a model teammate for 6 seasons here.

I'd hold off a bit on deciding who is/isn't a culture fit. Gimme the great talent and I'll see what we can do about that culture bridge when we get to it.

Something tells me he wouldn't be throwing PM under the bus. When the rubber the road, 99% of all WRs are divas. Some coaches/organizations manage to just keep it contained.

Every time George Pickens makes one of these damn catches i get a little salty.

****ing DK Metcalfe catastrophe all over again.

Lol can't wait for Skyy to have you two eating crow.

Just a matter of time.

Nor can I.

We need someone that can beat man coverage but it damn sure ain't JJSS and it doesn't appear to be MVS.

The sooner Moore can earn some playing time the better, because when Justin Watson is the only guy that's looked remotely feisty in this 'new' alignment, you're in some trouble.

He'll probably be very good, but he had 39 yards and I think 36 came from that 1 reception. I dunno, I liked him more than Moore but not loads and to be honest he's not exactly lighting it up.

Even if Skyy Moore has success (which i fully expect him to) it won't matter much in this debate because it's about skill set.

They're completely different kinds of guys.

Reid and Mahomes will make Skyy produce. They woulda made Pickens produce too.

Give me Pickens skillset all day long though.

As the 3rd receiver on a running team with Mitch Trubisky at Qb.

**** the production dude, who cares. Look at the skillset and ability.

And yeah i understand he has an attitude problem, but shit, that's partly why i loved the guy.

This is that attitude im talking about. He was doing it in college, now he's doing it in the pros.
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I watched a Browns DB try to press him last night and Pickens shoved him out of position with one arm and went right by.

What skill set has he shown thus far?

Again, I love Pickens, but I just haven't been overly impressed outside of that one catch. I posted a video of him failing to get much separation throughout the course of a game. He hasn't looked overly fast or quick out there. So far, he looks like a big contested catch guy, and that just isn't a great fit in this offense and in particular with Mahomes.

Now of course it's still very early. He, like Skyy, has a lot of room to grow. I'm not denying the upside he showed in college.

But I think you're severely underestimating Skyy's skill set.

Dude can literally do it all. I know many want to pretend he can't win with deeper routes, but he's shown that he can in the limited opportunities that he's had going back to the preseason. He's not going to get a ton of separation on those, but he gets enough, and that's really all he needs. We already know he can win on the short to intermediate stuff. He's also displayed some of that YAC ability that he showed in college. He's got huge hands and long arms.

Just wait, let things play out. I have no doubt you will be eating crow.

His body control is already at the top the league as demonstrated last night. He's shown to be a good route runner. Excellent hands. Not just a willing run blocker, but a violent one.

He's not the fastest guy, but he's still a 4.4 forty kind of player.

Between training camp and now the dude has made a number of ELITE level catches.

C'mon man, look at this shit.

Dude blocks TWO defenders to spring an outside run. Blows up a DB on another run play away from his side.

Catches a deep fade over the shoulder and toe taps in the corner of the endzone.

Look at the body control on that leaping grab for a first down.

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And dude has certainly gotten open:

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I mean, i get that you've been a big Skyy Moore stan this whole time and DJ and I were vehemently against him leading up to the draft, but to say, "what skillset" c'man man. You know exactly what skillset.

You dont have to shit on Pickens to hype Moore.


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He has not shown to be a great route runner thus far. Not bad, but absolutely nothing special.

Actually, I'm not even going to sugarcoat it, he doesn't look nearly as good as Skyy does running routes.

I'll give you the body control, the big catch ability, and the bully like attitude he has when blocking CBs.

I'm not trying to sound like a Pickens hater. I was literally driving the bandwagon, but I've also been the guy defending Skyy going back to before the draft.

I don't think this has to be an either/or thing. They're both going to be great players. I just think the people that are certain that Pickens is the better player are in for a surprise when Skyy gets his shot.

Quite the opposite IMO. I feel like you're shitting on Moore.

Also, I'm saying what skill set has he shown so far, because he really hasn't done much despite getting an opportunity day 1. Again, I'm fully aware of the upside he showed. I was the one driving the Pickens bandwagon from day 1. It's just that he hasn't really been as impressive as I expected outside of a spectacular catch.

And I know it's Trubisky, but Diontae Johnson still looks like Diontae Johnson.

No one is shitting on Moore. Im saying i prefer Pickens' skillset over Moore.

Moore is a smaller, quicker in a phone booth type receiver with a smaller radius who's going to require Mahomes to drop dimes on him. He'll do his thing, get open underneath. Use his quickness and all that.

Great.

Totally different kind of dude and I prefer my WR's to be more in the mold of a George Pickens.

Moore might have a smaller radius than a guy like Pickens, but he has huge hands and long arms for a guy his size.

You might not be shitting on him, but you're absolutely underestimating him.

Just like saying "get open underneath" as if that's all he can do. You don't need to have a ton of separation to win deep. You just need a step. With his quickness and 10 yard split, he can do that, and he's going to get open all over the field.

You'll see though.

If you were driving the bandwagon, i took over the wheel.

I hope so.

That may not be all he can do, but it's where he's going to live.

Lol fair enough.

I think you're wrong about that.

Dude was winning deep too in the preseason. Even drew a couple PIs in the process. He's so quick off the line and his 10 yard split is a perfect example of how he can win early and get behind his defender. The defender usually makes up some ground, but by then, it's too late.

Hopefully the Chiefs start feeding him some snaps.

I think he plays a lot this week, because as DJ pointed out, it's starting to feel like it may be a necessity going forward.

I know this thread is in regards to this years draft.

But you want to talk about a guy I wish the Chiefs would've drafted last year?

Amon-Ra St. Brown.

He would've been an excellent pick if we had our 3rd or an early 4th. What a stud.

Kid is a hell of a ballplayer, isn't he?

Focus on the skill-sets lads, some of those guys just absolutely explode when given the opportunity.

And there's a non-zero chance that Moore could be one of those guys. But so could Pickens. In either event, I think we're getting to nut cutting time if the WRs struggle again this week. He's GOTTA get on the field if we're seeing the same issues with MVS and JJSS.

And I'm not even ready to say those 2 can't contribute, but I would be really surprised if either of those guys are the man-beater we need. JJSS is a guy you look to excel in Zone coverage and get some physical yards after contact to move the sticks. MVS is a field stretcher who isn't showing me the kind of quick-start ability he needs to win a route without being schemed into space.

Those are fine complementary players but you still need someone who can challenge man coverage. Maybe it's Mecole, maybe it's Moore (I think Watson can do it in a pinch) but we're gonna need to find a solution there and I'd really prefer it be clear by the Buffalo game.

I think I was pretty early on the Moore hype train, but I also thought Pickens was the more complete WR. Honestly, not sure. Obviously it's early but Pickens always seemed to win late in the route and I don't know if he does that as easily or frequently at this level. If he keeps bullying people at the catch point he's an All-Pro. If not, Moore is going to be a more effective player imo. He gets early separation much more frequently from what I can see, and as you say is YAC is excellent.

All of this. Not a JJSS or MVS fan truth be told but I get the, potential, value. But we've really got to start seeing it.

I think Pickens is a guy who got punished for the reputation of Georgia WRs of late.

Folks were putting the 'raw route runner' tag on him without watching him actually run routes. That kid is absolutely a good route runner. An excellent one as far as prospects go.

Off the field, it's hard to say. Worse guys have done a fine job keeping their noses clean in the right organizations.

But on the field, there's very little not to like about him as a prospect. He it's hard to find a guy with downfield speed and his kind of physicality who also show plus agility and good hands. That's a first round talent every year, IMO.

We missed an opportunity to get a real value play here, IMO. That's a kid who has first round ability to slipped into the 2nd due to the depth of the position. Meanwhile in Moore I see a guy who's available most years in the 2nd day and is more of a player with 3rd round ability who rose up into the 2nd because of the insanity of the FA market.

Maybe it all works out, but from a pure value calculus I think we made a mistake. Pickens just has tools that you don't typically find at 50 where we could've had him...

The attitude stuff I'm honestly less bothered about. I don't think he's a raw route runner, he's perfectly decent and late in his routes he's incredibly savvy. The kind of subtle moves he makes to get separation I think are very, very impressive. Add that to his physicality and hands and he's an exellent prospect.

But he's not THAT fast. He's not THAT polished. And whenever you're taking about physicality and contested catch ability I always think those traits better be something special to carry over. That could absolutely be the case. I certainly prefered Pickens so I'm not pretending I didn't rate him. But I mainly prefered him as a very different threat to what we had.

Honestly think Moore's releases alone make him better than a R3 WR. In any case, we'll find out soon enough.

I'd really like to see Watson in the X, Hardman as the Z, and Moore in the slot as a regular lineup and see what happens.

I was never impressed by signing MVS and just don't think he's the type of guy you can consistently rely on. He's a nice #4 guy IMO, but not the type you hand the contract he got AND expect to be a huge part of your offense.

I don't know if JuJu is the same guy he was before the injuries. He looks... kinda slow. I'd love to see him be that elite slot WR but I don't know that he is. I think Moore could be with his RB build and elite release.

Let these young, speedy guys eat.

Honestly, I give zero ****'s about the tantrum or that he said out loud what that entire lockeroom has to be thinking about Trubisky at this point. None that detracts from the fact that the catch was absolute fire.

Immaturity was a widely known knock on him. Nobody is surprised. Whoever drafted him knew exactly what they were getting. Fittingly enough, he was selected into the same environment that cultivated Antonio Brown.

No doubt the Steelers had the maximum strength excedrin on standby when they picked him.

Let's hope not. We have quite a ways to go before that becomes official. However, Pickens is inarguably winning these early rounds.

Agree. I understood the logic of MVS and JJSS but neither is top notch imo, both need an elite WR alongside them to show production. MVS has never been hugely reliable and whatever we think the reason Juju hasn't been decent in 3 years. Moore has to get more snaps.

So we gonna keep grading this kid on a curve now?

Him and Cook have done far more to lose games for us than win them thus far.

Let's just tap the breaks here fellas. Moore has a long way to go to look like an NFL player yet.

Well, it's hard to tap the brakes when the parking brake is already set. If he were actually getting meaningful snaps on offense I'd maybe give you some credence there.

Should he be returning punts? No, because he never really was a punt returner. I hoped for Coleman to be kept for that reason and they passed on it.

It could very well be the kid just doesn't have the playbook down well enough for Andy's liking yet. From what I've seen in preseason, it doesn't seem like a talent issue.

This is my gripe. I can accept the logic - get him involved, he's got good hands and YAC ability. But FFS it's a new skill he's having to learn. Just let him learn in the areas he's shown ability first. We have a collapsing OL and absolutely no-one else on this team getting early separation. Maybe he won't do that, but let's see.

With a bit of luck someone will notice this sooner rather than later and increase his snaps. With further luck this punt-return nonsense won't have dented his confidence too much.

Abraham Lucas has been great so far for Seattle. Went early in the third

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Abraham Lucas has been the best rookie OT that I&#39;ve seen in the NFL this season and he was the 7th OT and 15th overall OL taken in the draft. His play strength is serving as the foundation of his game &amp; is really impressive. <a href="https://t.co/k0FRVmSfIM">pic.twitter.com/k0FRVmSfIM</a></p>&mdash; Brandon Thorn (@BrandonThornNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrandonThornNFL/status/1575862146482962432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 30, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

To be fair, the kid was supposed to be a polished, NFL-ready WR.

So what does the team do? Have him return punts, even though he's never done it before.

They're not putting him in a position to succeed, that's not really his fault.

Like somebody said to me yesterday, good scouting will find us a LT. I have complete faith in Veach at this point. If OBJ is truly on his way out, we'll find an adequate replacement and probably A LOT cheaper.

I admittedly am not as into prospects throughout the draft as I used to be. Didn’t know anything about Lucas but reading his scouting report is kinda baffling to why he fell so far.

His athletic profile is excellent. 6’6” 325. 33 7/8 arms, 10+ inch hands. Former hooper but has the core strength.

Also ran an excellent 7.25 3 cone for a guy that big.

He’s just an excellent profile for an Andy Reid offense. Ideal RT. Oh well I’m sure there will be other chances.

The guy I really wanted us to get late was Kellen Diesch. He's floating around on the Bears practice squad so the likelihood is...he's terrible. But man he just looked like he needed a year in the weights room. Everything else was solid.

Isn’t that scouting what led us to trade for OBJ in the first place? IMO hard to have complete faith when trading for OBJ was a flawed move to begin with. The chances of him ever developing into an elite LT in THIS offense were always slim and his contract demands weren’t exactly a secret even before we traded for him.

Have you seen that tackle class from that year? We probably could have traded up for Darrisaw but coming out, he had concerns about his back or neck, IIRC.

The rest of that class is mostly right tackles or trash.

It was a desperation move. Hopefully they've learned from it.

They didn't merely because they could have had Penning which, at minimum, would have locked up RT and probably would have been the LT going into 2023.

Hindsight says yeah, he got hurt, but that doesn't detract from the facts leading in. And, he looked pretty ****ing good before the injury.

OBJ was already tagged at that point. No way you spend a 1st on a RT and pay your LT the average of the top 5 players at the position.

I guess hindsight's 20-20. As great as McDuffie looks I don't think anyone here was clamouring for us trading up for a CB in the 1st round. Veach obviously WAS thinking the same as everyone in terms of focusing on defence.

The one pick I'd have back is the Cook one. I get it, Spags like 3 safeties, but nobody's convincing me there aren't a dozen guys that came after that they'd not want instead and who wouldn't be making more of an impact. Including Raimann and Lucas.

In Veach's defence, it's hard to have seen the collapse in OBJ's form I guess but man having a solid RT would feel good right now.

Cook played pretty well last night.

Elam has been terrific for the bills

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kaiir Elam vs Ravens:<br><br>��43 coverage snaps<br>��1 target<br>��0 receptions allowed<br><br>The Bills rookie CB was LOCKDOWN. <a href="https://t.co/nseS68VXSa">pic.twitter.com/nseS68VXSa</a></p>&mdash; NFL Rookie Watch (@NFLRookieWatxh) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1576932885399228417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pickens going 6/102 against a secondary that has played REALLY well so far this year was awfully impressive.

A couple of them were damn impressive catches. That sideline toe tapper.....oooof that was gorgeous. He had a ferocious run block too on what i think was their longest run of the day.

Alec Pierce went for 4 catches 80 yards too.

George Pickens does look really good.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kenny Pickett to George Pickens 🎯<br><br>That sounds nice to say, doesn’t it? <a href="https://t.co/zJHNYmhnjR">pic.twitter.com/zJHNYmhnjR</a></p>&mdash; PFF PIT Steelers (@PFF_Steelers) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_Steelers/status/1576655532483436544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 2, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Just the simple fact that were two back shoulder completions like this to George Pickens, using his size and play making ability, is the difference between Trubisky and Pickett. <a href="https://t.co/aJm8elDauR">pic.twitter.com/aJm8elDauR</a></p>&mdash; Matt Koll (@MKoll15) <a href="https://twitter.com/MKoll15/status/1576954455232491522?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He put that physicality to incredible use yesterday.

He's a guy I think we're gonna cringe over for a bit. He has every tool you could ask for.

Rinse and repeat

It's just awful being a Chiefs fan these days, isn't it?